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Author Topic: Cold / Brain wallet security question  (Read 1773 times)
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October 25, 2013, 04:41:36 PM
 #21

Would multi hashing it after increase the difficulty.  Or do asics now make that easy to brute as well. 

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October 26, 2013, 03:04:42 AM
 #22

The goal here is to make cold storage more secure.  If I just stick a private printed key in a safety bank box or underground well then anyone who gets into my box gets my coins.  Let's say I don't include a public address next to it.  I still don't think it's that hard to just check if any of the addresses attempted through brute force have coins in them.  Is it?  Let's try it again.  If anyone needs a bounty please post and I will fund the address.
Same Private Key :  6108A178B39FF904C9F408741935554E042BDE257DB7F5621555175BACAC2A9C
Public Address     :  13VrtFYvfMrFcjnQNfTR2PSgWnBNxcst45

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October 26, 2013, 03:18:57 AM
 #23

The goal here is to make cold storage more secure.

Then why not just use a password protected private key?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0038

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October 26, 2013, 08:26:13 AM
 #24

The goal here is to make cold storage more secure.

Then why not just use a password protected private key?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0038

My claim is that brain-wallets are dangerous (private key which is the password) as your virtual "encrypted wallet" is effectively stored on the block chain so anyone can have a go at grinding your password.  GPUs are frighteningly fast at grinding passwords.  Even a 46-bit password can be ground for 50c of compute at bitcoin prices or analogous with litecoin/scrypt.

Its not that much better with an encrypted randomly generated private key (BIP 38), if you are worried that its realistic other people will get hold of your encrypted private key.  Once that happens you're in the same boat as brain-wallets against the people who have your encrypted key file/wallet.

Of course its better to encrypt than not.

But about increasing the security of your private key, choose a parallelizable key derivation and buy yourself a machine with a lot of GPU cores.  (eg Scrypt(iter=1,deleted salt,...) with a deleted 30-bit or 40-bit salt; it will be GPU expensive to decrypt.  This delete salt bits (not a new idea its due to Merkle 1976 and mentioned in Rivest et al's time-lock puzzle paper) its described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311000.msg3342217#msg3342217

Also see the top part of the thread, I proposed a couple of ways to securely outsource computing your KDF so that you can pay 50c and get 100 GPU miners to stretch your key for you, this one is interactive:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311000.msg3341985#msg3341985

or lots of ASIC miners in the second version which is non-interactive, its a stretched signature verification, and after its spent you need to delete the private key component c to prevent somone who later gets a copy of your private key grinding your password against the now public stretched signature:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=311000.msg3402287#msg3402287

Adam

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October 26, 2013, 07:36:50 PM
 #25

Forgive my limited tech knowledge.  Isn't there some alt coins that use complex CPU hashing that takes a lot of resources/time.  Wouldn't using those be ASIC resistant so to speak.  Also it would have to be cold offline software otherwise not very secure sending your seed/key to somebody else online to hash.  Right?  The ultimate goal isn't for tech people it's to be able to plainly explain to someone who wants to store coins that this is secure.  If I want to cold store a long term investment it makes no sense for it to be just a plain visible key since safety deposit boxes and safes get cracked open all the time.  Also there's the problem of destruction from external factors or simply forgetting where it is.  I think it would be nice to be able to express the solution to this problem in the format that Jesse James posted.  One must change a certain amount of digits depending on how much values is stored.

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