Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now!

[anderl]

Is it just me, or did Alpha just lock down almost all of their forums (except a general page) to members only? I can't reach threads I was able to browse prior, without logging in.

Yes, it looks like the sub forums for the company, about us, the team are all deleted or are private now.  Most of them redirect to static pages on the alpha-tech website.  Others just 404.  More lock down.  I think Fiaz is scared of making too many amnnoucements public knowledge.

But it is a bit scammy to lock down discussion about company details.

[1713554652]

1713554652

[anderl]

Fiaz (July 02, 2014): "Shipping is not expected to start on the 15th"

So we know the "optimistic" scenario won't fire.

Well. Can't say I didn't see this coming.

Notice the details of the statement.  Or the absence of one.

Fiaz (July 02, 2014): "Shipping is not expected to start on the 15th"

He never offered any information or even allusion to when shipping will start.

So while shipping will definitely not start on the 15th.... 2 weeks later than expected.  It may not even start in July.  If shipping would not start on the 15th but AT knew that it would start on the 30th then they would have promptly mentioned that in order to offset the bad news.  So shipping may nor even start in August!!!!!

[Its About Sharing]

As mentioned before, a bigger problem is the LTC price. http://www.coindesk.com/litecoin-price-decouples-bitcoin-slump-continues/

A snippet:

The biggest problem is the sheer lack of money in litecoin and that other popular alternative cryptocurrency dogecoin.

The combined market cap of the two most popular scrypt altcoins is about $250m, yet KnCMiner was hoping to sell 2,500 Titan miners at $10,000 apiece – and that’s just the first batch of such miners, from a single company.

In other words, if it shipped today, a single batch of KnC’s scrypt miners would cost $25m – roughly 10% of the combined market cap of litecoin and dogecoin.

A glance at those figures reveals that this level of investment in scrypt mining hardware will be hard to justify and maintain in the long run.

Additionally, the added hashing power these miners will bring is likely to further impact prices of scrypt-based altcoins in the near future.

I dunno, I think the biggest issue with this company is still the fact that they took your money and didn't deliver a product (and looks like they never will).  Why do you defend this company so much?  Seriously you have defended their every move all the way down, and now, when it is obvious to even the most hard core shills that no product is ever going to get delivered, your attitude seems to be, well it doesn't matter, the product wasn't going to be profitable anyway.  As if that somehow excused their behavior.
With that said, you are correct about their return, or lack thereof.  As near as my estimations can tell, you could have the 250Mh/s device delivered TODAY and it will never pay for itself.  

I think you have selective memory here. I wouldn't call my actions as defending them. I was often critical of them, especially in the last 3 weeks or so. The thing I did jump into was to quell the personal attacks. I saw those as getting in the way. You need to take a look at my posts over the last few weeks before spouting that stuff again, and don't be selective. Look at them all. Multiple times I mentioned and thankedboth Retro and Vesper for their work.

I might have lost 500 Euro. I don't even make much money but I have called my investments right in this space spectacularly so, and taken some, what others would call, huge risks along the way. So I am not sure if you expect me to be angry or the like. I move on and don't hold. I am super happy to have been able to experience all that I have in this space, everything. I am just not very affected by all of this. I'm honestly enjoying life too much.

I chose my handle for a reason,
Its about sharing

Ps - My post you replied to had NOTHING at all to do with discounting AT. I was saying the crashing price of LTC is a huge issue. And probably losing just the deposit would be better, for me anyway, than having a miner right now, as you alluded to. Less of a loss financially perhaps.

[vesperwillow]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

[Cablez]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

I can see now why KnC made the Titans non-refundable.  No hedging there.

[Its About Sharing]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

True, but the times were different. We have new alts (e.g. anonymous ones in DRK, XMR, etc.) that are taking market share and not to mention it has become a downward moving market. That said, this area is still just getting started and I wouldn't be shocked to see LTC go back down to .0035-.007 or so and then recover later. At that point though and with a high difficulty, mining would make little sense, but buying would. I would probably get back in some down there.

[Searing]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

I can see now why KnC made the Titans non-refundable.  No hedging there.

yeah my timing was epic on the titan as well...2 weeks before KNC went to the dark side and it all went to hell

I've learned to read TOS's now (the no refund I knew about but trusted them silly me ..the 90 warrenty caugtht me by surprise!)

(i such a funny little clueless hairless human primate....I never learn...scratches crotch)

Searing

[vesperwillow]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

True, but the times were different. We have new alts (e.g. anonymous ones in DRK, XMR, etc.) that are taking market share and not to mention it has become a downward moving market. That said, this area is still just getting started and I wouldn't be shocked to see LTC go back down to .0035-.007 or so and then recover later. At that point though and with a high difficulty, mining would make little sense, but buying would. I would probably get back in some down there.

I think the price is very artificial right now, and there have been some unusual dumps too. It can be taken any which way, but my gut says people are trying to keep it low right now to buy it up. Because fairly soon, the difficulty is going to go up a notch. And then when KNC delivers it's going to blow off the charts.

[makngeerwork]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

True, but the times were different. We have new alts (e.g. anonymous ones in DRK, XMR, etc.) that are taking market share and not to mention it has become a downward moving market. That said, this area is still just getting started and I wouldn't be shocked to see LTC go back down to .0035-.007 or so and then recover later. At that point though and with a high difficulty, mining would make little sense, but buying would. I would probably get back in some down there.

I think the price is very artificial right now, and there have been some unusual dumps too. It can be taken any which way, but my gut says people are trying to keep it low right now to buy it up. Because fairly soon, the difficulty is going to go up a notch. And then when KNC delivers it's going to blow off the charts.

talk about denial, can you read a basic chart?

http://coinmarketcap.com/ltc_180.html

[kalenen]

If they don't deliver i think you should gather forces and try this in court.

Maybe the best solution for the future is to never accept pre-payment on asics ever again. It's to easy to lure people on money the way it is today.
I invested in Fibonacci and i will for sure never send any money before there is an actual product.

[FlungSpun]

The market cap of LTC isnt a good determination of if new equipment is a good idea or not. Folks were mining BTC with GPU's and CPU's when it wasn't worth anything. It may impact ROI, but that's just a may which is short-term, and even then the gold-strikers have to risk something.

True, but the times were different. We have new alts (e.g. anonymous ones in DRK, XMR, etc.) that are taking market share and not to mention it has become a downward moving market. That said, this area is still just getting started and I wouldn't be shocked to see LTC go back down to .0035-.007 or so and then recover later. At that point though and with a high difficulty, mining would make little sense, but buying would. I would probably get back in some down there.

I think the price is very artificial right now, and there have been some unusual dumps too. It can be taken any which way, but my gut says people are trying to keep it low right now to buy it up. Because fairly soon, the difficulty is going to go up a notch. And then when KNC delivers it's going to blow off the charts.

talk about denial, can you read a basic chart?

http://coinmarketcap.com/ltc_180.html

Denial - Myopic
take your pick - feels like I've been here before though


Seriously it's a shame its come to this. - I'd be interested to see how many UK miners were caught by alpha.
When I put this option to a selection of interested friends months ago no one wanted to touch it - We are pretty local to that part of the world and it just didn't feel right.

Anyway best of luck to you who took a punt. 

[9600]

Just an update,
   After receiving 3 different emails from Alpha with 2 differing refund amounts, I finally received this message today.

"Hello there,

Your order has been successfully refunded. Please allow 1-5 working days for this payment to clear."

This was in response to an email I sent clarifying that I was indeed inside of the 75% purchase period. So, here's hoping?

If you remember previously, the order was placed on March 28th and cancelled on June 7th.
I'll update everyone if the transfer goes through and if it's for the correct amount!

EDIT: Received another email saying that a note was added to my account. The note reads "refunded 537.50" which is the correct amount so long as they issued it in GBP. So, there's that.

[ixxi]

Hello there,

We are very sorry but as per our cancellation policy which is legally binding it has been longer than 5 months since you placed your order therefore you are no longer eligible for a refund. We must say we have been very clear and open with our terms of order, it was released as a news update, it is easily available on our website and you are requested to view it on the product page before you order. We know this news may be disappointing but please do understand we cannot allow it as the funds have now gone into the production of your device as per our terms which again, to reiterate, we have been utmost clear on since the start of this en-devour.

Best Regards,

Alpha Technology Team

Seems like I'm also one of those suckers who just have to take his losses.

[Meanotor]

In fact you are wrong, it is people who come in late who should not be able to cancel.

Refer to Buttrerfly Labs.

After long delays they told everyone: sorry champs but it's not going to happen soon here's your full refund back.

Same here, yes we've ordered, yes there was end of July promise which Retro72 has.

If they do not deliver any time soon, then there is precedence in the market of full refund.

His very nice lawyer shiny like my shoe (or like a witty shit under light) would understand what precedence means in law.

And any upgrade that was offered was not because of delays, it was their willful desire to attract customers as they kept opening and closing the batch. So it is not a compensation.

Also a 5 MHs miner in June is better than a 250 MHs end of August.

And they misguided us, poor us the original customers, they tricked us and cheated us and promised they had started back in May last year and promised that they had no competition and promised t hat they will deliver before anyone and promised and promised I made my lifeplan decisions around these promises and now I am in shatters and it is all their fault and I am entitled to full compensation from their negligence and misguiding practices.

[brian_23452]

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence. 

[Nullu]

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence. 

But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart.

[brian_23452]

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence. 

But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart.

I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world.  Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal.  Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass?  Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks.  They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server).  They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs.  Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages.  I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of?

But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen.  Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags.  In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time.  But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this?  I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars?  The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause?  I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them.  It's like, wtf really?

[Nullu]

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence.  

But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart.

I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world.  Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal.  Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass?  Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks.  They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server).  They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs.  Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages.  I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of?

But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen.  Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags.  In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time.  But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this?  I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars?  The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause?  I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them.  It's like, wtf really?

Well, I don't know about the US law, but in the UK, under the sales & goods act, the product has to be fit for purpose. If it breaks because it's a piece of badly made garbage, then the product does not meet your expectations, and is therefore covered under that condition. If the product specifications do not match what's been advertised, again, same principle applies.

You're right in that responsibility ends at that point, and that you can't really claim for damages caused as a result of the product not being fit for purpose, but the seller is entirely responsible for product doing what is expected of it.

[Searing]

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence. 

But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart.

I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world.  Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal.  Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass?  Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks.  They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server).  They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs.  Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages.  I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of?

But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen.  Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags.  In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time.  But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this?  I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars?  The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause?  I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them.  It's like, wtf really?

Well, I don't know about the US law, but in the UK, under the sales & goods act, the product has to be fit for purpose. If it breaks because it's a piece of badly made garbage, then the product does not meet your expectations, and is therefore covered under that condition. If the product specifications do not match what's been advertised, again, same principle applies.

USA laws are tough but currently not being enforced....Butterfly Labs has been 10 months behind on both 65mm and current 28mm products consistently since around nov 2012....w/o out any enforcement ..money talks in usa ....so likely alpha and others looked at hashfast / bfl / etc and figured they had little to lose if it all went 'poof' in the nite..they are likely correct at least in usa

Searing

[Nullu]

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence. 

But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart.

I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world.  Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal.  Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass?  Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks.  They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server).  They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs.  Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages.  I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of?

But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen.  Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags.  In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time.  But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this?  I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars?  The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause?  I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them.  It's like, wtf really?

Well, I don't know about the US law, but in the UK, under the sales & goods act, the product has to be fit for purpose. If it breaks because it's a piece of badly made garbage, then the product does not meet your expectations, and is therefore covered under that condition. If the product specifications do not match what's been advertised, again, same principle applies.

USA laws are tough but currently not being enforced....Butterfly Labs has been 10 months behind on both 65mm and current 28mm products consistently since around nov 2012....w/o out any enforcement ..money talks in usa ....so likely alpha and others looked at hashfast / bfl / etc and figured they had little to lose if it all went 'poof' in the nite..they are likely correct at least in usa

Searing

Where do the units ship from? That determines which laws they fall under, right?