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Author Topic: Miner's fee a barrier to mass adoption  (Read 4382 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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October 23, 2013, 08:16:44 PM
 #61

The OP is right the fees are ridiculous, it essentially makes microtransactions impossible

Since bitcoin's entire purpose was to make microtransactions possible...

Not true.

Quote
Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
Satoshi Nakamoto
satoshin@gmx.com
www.bitcoin.org
Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution. ...

I see payments (transactions) but not micro.

Also it depends on the definition of microtransactions.  If you mean sub $1 tx Bitcoin works fine.  If you sub $0.01 tx then Bitcoin will never be viable.  No public ledger system will.   Any system has a per transaction cost and it is somewhat dubious to try and build a global model which works for sub cent transactions.

Current fee is 0.1 mBTC or about 1.5 US cents.  A company selling a $1 digital good generally finds current payment systems to be incompatible.
Credit card: $0.30 + 3%  = $0.33 fee or 33% of gross.
Bitcoin: $0.015 fee or 1.5% of gross.

Yeah looks pretty good for micro transactions. 



DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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October 23, 2013, 08:20:17 PM
 #62

Bitcoin is easier to process than cash, and cheaper than paypal and credit cards for the merchant.

Bitcoin is also cheaper than cash.  Most business account charge for cash deposits beyond a token amount.  Usually something like 0.5%.  Larger businesses needing armored car service are looking at costs approaching 1%.  Throw in potential losses for counterfeiting (or detection equipment cost/time) and sure it is cheaper than Credit cards but despite consumer perception cash isn't "free" for the merchant (on anything larger than a hobbyist scale).  Ever wonder why when using a debit card most stores will give you cash back and they don't charge a fee for it (unlike say an ATM)?  Simple they don't charge because it improves their bottom line by ~1% or so for every dollar a customer takes in cashback.
Walter Rothbard
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October 23, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
 #63

The OP is right the fees are ridiculous, it essentially makes microtransactions impossible

Since bitcoin's entire purpose was to make microtransactions possible...

Not true.

Quote
Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
Satoshi Nakamoto
satoshin@gmx.com
www.bitcoin.org
Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution. ...

I see payments (transactions) but not micro.

Also it depends on the definition of microtransactions.  If you mean sub $1 tx Bitcoin works fine.  If you sub $0.01 tx then Bitcoin will never be viable.  No public ledger system will.   Any system has a per transaction cost and it is somewhat dubious to try and build a global model which works for sub cent transactions.

Current fee is 0.1 mBTC or about 1.5 US cents.  A company selling a $1 digital good generally finds current payment systems to be incompatible.
Credit card: $0.30 + 3%  = $0.33 fee or 33% of gross.
Bitcoin: $0.015 fee or 1.5% of gross.

Yeah looks pretty good for micro transactions. 





I think your sarcasm detector is off.

DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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October 23, 2013, 08:22:56 PM
 #64

You might be right although I claim Poe's law as my defense.  I have seen too many times people legitimately claiming Bitcoin needs/should work for microtransactions and if it doesn't then it will fail.
WishIStartedSooner
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October 23, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
 #65

When the btc will be all mined the tx fee will keep the network up Smiley
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October 24, 2013, 12:59:38 AM
 #66

With the current transaction fees. transactions worth 1 USD are still ideal with bitcoin. It's the lower ones that pose a problem, which is solved by those paying them withholding until a minimum threshold is reached, which can still be $1.

All non-bitcoin microtransactions now do this. Google Adsense, Affiliate Commissions, even bitcoin pool mining. They don't send each and every small bit on-chain. They collect them off-chain, and eventually send a lump sum to you.

Offchain services or internal accounting for whatever service you are using, as long as there are no transaction fees, can send microtransactions with almost no problems. I'd still put a minimum amount though.

The new gambling sites are an example. They allow you to bet 1 satoshi. But you never see that on the block chain. (Either you cash out after a session, or you busted to zero, but that's another topic.)

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