Manual Merit and Automatic Activities

[palle11]

I have seen many threads on merit. Some posted on a wrong section and members posting right there even when they know it is on a wrong section either to make up their post count.

Merit has become a distraction to members and I'm sure to the mods too (if they would admit) because they would have had so much merit issues to deal with, from merit collaborators and related issues. Members now put up threads on merit issues, how to be merited and that... rather than throwing up bitcoin and related discussions.

Prior to the merit system, the automatic activities system upgrade never gave the forum this kind of infiltration threads on activities across the sections . And, even when they are, they were mostly on the meta section.

I think the reason for seeing such merit threads is because, it is manually given. If it were automatically merited,  the infiltration of threads won't be here with us.

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[mtmonte]

Any suggestions on how an automated merit system would work?  The purpose of the merit system is to improve the quality of posts in this forum.  Quality is subjective which is why I think it has to be given manually.  How would you control this in an automated fashion?

[dbshck]

Prior to the merit system, the automatic activities system upgrade never gave the forum this kind of infiltration threads on activities across the sections . And, even when they are, they were mostly on the meta section.

Well, before merit there were even bigger problems: massive spam and account farming. The former is still exist but account farming is pretty much impossible to do now. All the hassle with the merit system is nothing compared to the work needed to combat spammer before the system was implemented.

I think the reason for seeing such merit threads is because, it is manually given. If it were automatically merited,  the infiltration of threads won't be here with us.

How do we automatically judge which post is merit-worthy? Super advanced AI?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I think a lot of shitposters (and other people for whom English is not their first language) don't know the meaning of the word "automatic", and if I didn't think they were too lazy I'd suggest they look it up before using it--and I say this because I don't understand what OP is trying to say here.  I'm sure it's the language barrier, just as it usually is in 95% of posts that baffle me.

Anyway, there's no way to make the merit system automatic that I can think of.  In fact I think it's working just swell the way it was implemented.  It's the no-merit-having spammers that usually bring up ways of making it easier for them to earn merit points.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's the no-merit-having spammers that usually bring up ways of making it easier for them to earn merit points.

Exactly this. Go through the Meta board and click on all the threads whining about merit (examples here, here, here, and here, to pick just a few). Also go to theymos's original announcement thread and look at the people in there whining about merit (examples here, here, here, and here, again to pick just a few).

Now, what do all these people have in common? They all have no merit. They are all complaining about merit. They are all writing in poor, broken, sometimes incomprehensible English. They are all adding nothing to the discussion or just repeating points made previously (that they haven't bothered to read).

These are exactly the types of posts/posters that merit was designed to combat. It is working as intended.

[Direwolve735]

I have seen many threads on merit. Some posted on a wrong section and members posting right there even when they know it is on a wrong section either to make up their post count.

Merit has become a distraction to members and I'm sure to the mods too (if they would admit) because they would have had so much merit issues to deal with, from merit collaborators and related issues. Members now put up threads on merit issues, how to be merited and that... rather than throwing up bitcoin and related discussions.

Prior to the merit system, the automatic activities system upgrade never gave the forum this kind of infiltration threads on activities across the sections . And, even when they are, they were mostly on the meta section.

I think the reason for seeing such merit threads is because, it is manually given. If it were automatically merited,  the infiltration of threads won't be here with us.

I believe that if the merit is calculated automatically, then it would not make sense. It would be no different from activity. I'm not a big fan of merit, to be honest. Although I agree with the fact that we need to fight against spammers. I would just increase the time for charging activity. This option would be more objective and would not depend on other forum participants. In my opinion, this option is a combination of merit and activity.

[joniboini]

I believe that if the merit is calculated automatically, then it would not make sense. It would be no different from activity. I'm not a big fan of merit, to be honest. Although I agree with the fact that we need to fight against spammers. I would just increase the time for charging activity. This option would be more objective and would not depend on other forum participants. In my opinion, this option is a combination of merit and activity.

Increasing activity requirements to rank up (this is basically what I get from your post), from my perspective won't solve spamming and account farming at all. They would only need to stay longer, keep posting even they don't even read the whole OP, and etc. A lot of people won't care about posting a good post at all because they will rank up either way. I don't see it as a combination of merit and activity too. While I do agree that at some point merit can be a bit subjective, but we can always tell that there is a merit abuse or not.

[teddy5145]

Well, before merit there were even bigger problems: massive spam and account farming. The former is still exist but account farming is pretty much impossible to do now. All the hassle with the merit system is nothing compared to the work needed to combat spammer before the system was implemented.

I think the reason for seeing such merit threads is because, it is manually given. If it were automatically merited,  the infiltration of threads won't be here with us.

How do we automatically judge which post is merit-worthy? Super advanced AI?

I mean, Theymos did have a few thousand BTCs, that did not stop him from building advanced AI if he wish to, just like Wikipedia did to detect any possible troll edits on articles.

Merit has become a distraction to members and I'm sure to the mods too (if they would admit) because they would have had so much merit issues to deal with, from merit collaborators and related issues.

Do you rather forum filled with spammers or forum with less spammers in hand
Honestly, the mods knew the risk when they signed up to be moderators nobody said it's gonna be easy.

Members now put up threads on merit issues, how to be merited and that... rather than throwing up bitcoin and related discussions.

That means you have been browsing the wrong section, I only see people protesting against Merit on Meta.

I think the reason for seeing such merit threads is because, it is manually given. If it were automatically merited,  the infiltration of threads won't be here with us.

Congratulations, you just defeated the purpose of Merit System.

[fxstrike]

After looking at how people merit post, my rough estimate only around 10% that given appropriately to quality post, other than that it is given to friend and people who they know regardless of the post quality, so I don't think the system is working as intended.

[jemarleon]

can you make a program that filters post quality, to make this automatic merit system? the purpose of merit system is to increase the quality content of post and eliminate those farmers. yes I agree that its too hard to get merits even you post a high quality content but the thing is no one can make a program that filters the high quality and low quality content.

[fxstrike]

Instead of making automatic filter, just use Merit score as measure to determine how much the account will have signature feature available, the higher Merit score more signature feature available.

[Ranillo79]

Can be 15 post or any limits . If nothing deleted post with that interval. He/she given merits??

[bobrova]

I have seen many threads on merit. Some posted on a wrong section and members posting right there even when they know it is on a wrong section either to make up their post count.

Merit has become a distraction to members and I'm sure to the mods too (if they would admit) because they would have had so much merit issues to deal with, from merit collaborators and related issues. Members now put up threads on merit issues, how to be merited and that... rather than throwing up bitcoin and related discussions.

Prior to the merit system, the automatic activities system upgrade never gave the forum this kind of infiltration threads on activities across the sections . And, even when they are, they were mostly on the meta section.

I think the reason for seeing such merit threads is because, it is manually given. If it were automatically merited,  the infiltration of threads won't be here with us.

Giving merits automatically (like based on number of posts made in a fixed time period or length of posts) is a very bad idea in my opinion. If I remember correctly, some member already suggested this a month back. If this is implemented, members will abuse it a lot and it will make the merit system useless. They will keep making that number of posts with desired length (even if it  makes no sense). With merits given manually, everything is being examined by real people. Load on moderators is also reduced as members are involved in this.

[mdayonliner]

Any suggestions on how an automated merit system would work?  The purpose of the merit system is to improve the quality of posts in this forum.  Quality is subjective which is why I think it has to be given manually.  How would you control this in an automated fashion?

Perhaps improvising the application level of the merit system. Here are some of the ideas

How do we automatically judge which post is merit-worthy? Super advanced AI?

- Nothing is impossible 

After looking at how people merit post, my rough estimate only around 10% that given appropriately to quality post, other than that it is given to friend and people who they know regardless of the post quality, so I don't think the system is working as intended.

- Where did you get the data to find the 10%? 

Yes it's obvious that we (the users) are misusing it.

[krishnaverma]

How do we automatically judge which post is merit-worthy? Super advanced AI?

- Nothing is impossible 

I know a forum (it was related to jobs and exams in a country) which implemented something like this. It was a very popular forum as it used to share ts monthly earnings with all the members making posts on that forum. With time the number of members increased and thus they introduced some point system and posts were automatically given some points based on content length. Later members started abusing this by making irrelevant posts with more content length. That forum had to completely remove the process of sharing the monthly earnings after its search engine rankings were affected by so much spam. Thus, manual merits is best for bitcointalk.

[1020kingz]

i highly appreciate your effort and thoughts about how to get merit, but it is not possible to have an auto merit program,  because of some reasons 1.) how can we detect if its a good quality post? 2.) not all of us are good in english (some post are merited manually because though it has not a good english grammar but have a good sense of post, basically we’re not having a language dicrimination here in the forum) 3. i think there is no API available like that.
as what i observe why people create low quality post because of low quality topic, moderators did this before deleting low quality topics if this continues we can prevent low quality post.

[tranthidung]

Users will evaluate quality of other users' posts. I don't think Theymos can create a system which can automatically verify post quality. It is likely impossible tasks.

1.) how can we detect if its a good quality post?

English is global language, and this is common language in the forum too. The most important boards in the forum only allow English and users should sharpen their English skills to contribute to the forum through their English-proficient posts.

2.) not all of us are good in english (some post are merited manually because though it has not a good english grammar but have a good sense of post, basically we’re not having a language dicrimination here in the forum)

Such low-quality, non-sense, spamming topics will be locked and deleted soon by moderators. Don't worry.

3. i think there is no API available like that.
as what i observe why people create low quality post because of low quality topic, moderators did this before deleting low quality topics if this continues we can prevent low quality post.