-- The Riddle of the Twin Brothers - Who Were, Are and Will Rule the World!

[FrictionlessCoin]

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand why network security makes or breaks a coin and the fact that any other feature or advantage of a coin can be easily duplicated, copied and implemented by any other coin. 

There are absolutely no barriers to copying things like block-time and PoS yet people gamble on CrapCoins based on these useless, easy to copy features while ignoring the most important feature of all and one which is very difficult to copy and implant, and that is the network hashrate which is the security if any coin.

I think right now,  crypto-currencies are so new that people have no clue as to how to evaluate it.

Network Hash Rate is almost the equivalent of P/E for stocks.   You can compare stocks by looking at their P/E ratio.

Maybe something like price  * network hash rate  / (# of outstanding coins)  should be introduced so people can evaluate cois correctly.

Here's a formula   price  * network hash rate   /  (# of outstanding coins) + (coins created per year)

[1713576722]

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1713576722

[FrictionlessCoin]

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand why network security makes or breaks a coin and the fact that any other feature or advantage of a coin can be easily duplicated, copied and implemented by any other coin.  

There are absolutely no barriers to copying things like block-time and PoS yet people gamble on CrapCoins based on these useless, easy to copy features while ignoring the most important feature of all and one which is very difficult to copy and implant, and that is the network hashrate which is the security if any coin.

I think right now,  crypto-currencies are so new that people have no clue as to how to evaluate it.

Network Hash Rate is almost the equivalent of P/E for stocks.   You can compare stocks by looking at their P/E ratio.

Maybe something like price  * network hash rate  / (# of outstanding coins)  should be introduced so people can evaluate cois correctly.

Here's a formula   price  * network hash rate   /  (# of outstanding coins) + (coins created per year)

Man, you come up with some brilliant shit.

Bravo!

I'll see if I can put a formula together based on your post to do exactly that, value each coin on its most important feature:  its network security.

Yes, please come up with a table for comparison.  A lot of people need a lot of hand holding!!

[FrictionlessCoin]

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

[publicjud]

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

Well, the hash rate has moved much faster than the price.  So right now, it clearly is extremely undervalued.

Of course, I have absolutely no clue what you meant by your statement.

[publicjud]

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

Well, the hash rate has moved much faster than the price.  So right now, it clearly is extremely undervalued.

Of course, I have absolutely no clue what you meant by your statement.

My point is, just saying it cost 100 dollars to make a certain item, does not mean there is a market for item at 100....


If it cost 1million to mine 1 BTC would not make the price of BTC go to 1 million.....

And it could be over supplied as easily as undervalued....

[FrictionlessCoin]

I did some quick math.

Assuming it costs .11/KwH  and 600 watts per 1 TH/s machine.  Total electricity costs alone is:  578.56 USD.

I short, the 720 IXC that you mine isn't even going to cover electricity costs!!!

No wonder not many miners are selling their IXC!

And apparently people don't want IXC either because the price is so low.

Well, the hash rate has moved much faster than the price.  So right now, it clearly is extremely undervalued.

Of course, I have absolutely no clue what you meant by your statement.

My point is, just saying it cost 100 dollars to make a certain item, does not mean there is a market for item at 100....


If it cost 1million to mine 1 BTC would not make the price of BTC go to 1 million.....

And it could be over supplied as easily as undervalued....

If there is a cost to acquire and item,  then the owner of the item will be less inclined to sell it at a loss.   If there is no cost to acquire an item (see: NXT,  coins with low difficulty),  then owners have no issue at selling it at any price for a profit.

[digitalindustry]

Sh!t. Just remembered you.

You told me once you hold 500k IXC.

Like 2 months ago, in cryptsy chat.

Brother, are you the guy from across the Danube?  Did you buy any IXC at half a penny back then when I urged you to?  You said you would so I hope you did and I hope you haven't sold yet cause this thing is just getting started.  

And yes, I own 3% and I have not sold a single coin.

Good luck!

did you buy Quark like i told you Vlad ? - its literally just getting started .

re IXC - i haven't really followed this whole topic ?

perhaps you might want to read though Neutral Control Principal & Theory : -  http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1416/neutral-control-principal-theory

I read your Neutral Control Theory.  

Very interesting and well written.

Problem is that the theory is fundamentally flawed.  Think of the socialism theory - just like your theory, it sounds beautiful on paper, but the problem is that in real life it all has to be implemented by humans.

And the fundamental flaw with humans is that they're self serving and corrupt.

So if you think that an already powerful govt is going to take a digital currency which takes away freedoms from the masses and in turn they will voluntarily give up power instead of taking more power and using the new technology which tracks every move of every human on earth and then voluntarily also give up control over monetary controls then you have neglected the most basic premise of humanity:  greed and corruption of the human heart and the absolute fact that as more power and control is given to any body of government, they always, absolutely, abuse that power and use it to their gain - for their self interests.

History has proved this many times over yet we keep eating the same lies while giving up our freedoms to self serving humans who will inevitably act in their evil self interests.

Therefore, this Neutral Theory is nothing more than another hopeless dream which will be used [effectively] to sell this Digital Cash idea to the masses but when it's all said and done, when it's too late to turn back, the masses will realize they have given up the last bastion of hope, freedom and expression.

just some point Vlad -  no "insiders" own anywhere near any % like that of Quark actually QRK is one of the best distributed crypto that exists - but I'll let you find that out yourself later.  

as regards Neutral Control Theory - i'd respectfully suggest a re- read, but having said that i understand where you come from , i'm currently undertaking a bit of a psychological analysis of "apathetic citizens"  -

so for you to read the NCT principal and see it for what it is, would be very difficult, ( i understand this )  but in this aspect i want to help .

how you are seeing things incorrectly  I will break down the ways into parts for you:

1. You are seeing  "Government" as a single entity - that is to say if you visualized "Government" you might visualizes a large strong monolith for example.
why is this incorrect ?

Government is just a group of people with different individual levels of corruption.


2. You see only "Government" as the problem.
Why is this incorrect ?

This seems to be a prevalent and important flaw in the thought process of an "apathetic citizen" -  because with only one side of the story how can you (or anyone with the similar view) ever expect to understand how corruption works ?
Government for simplicity sake is the one half of a two part power "sharing" system -  i will break it down for you and give you some examples :

Corporations V Government.

"The Bank" V  "The King".

The Money Issuance Power V The Guns and Hardware.   (broadly stated industrial capacity also military industrial capacity)

I could go on but this is the biggest flaw that distorts your vision in this regard -

back to 2014 > NCT is an inevitable theory that grants neutral control, the reason and how this will occur is because it can not be stopped, you are misunderstanding the nature of "Neutral Control" i tried to highlight it at the end of the document but its a difficult point to clearly get across -

so "powerful Government" (and incorrect statement in most cases around the world) will not have a choice but to select Neutral control as it will occur anyhow, for the Government it is a positive thing, the losers are the holders of the power of issuance over the "ongoing mechanics of currency issuance" .

so I'm going to stop right here and prove you wrong and me correct .

- answer this line :

Q - Who issues the currency of the nation ?

A - you say not the Government (in most cases) and  you are correct .


Q - who loses out in an NTC situation ?

A - the issuing power , which you have agreed is NOT the Government .


Q- then could the "government" benefit from NCT ?

A- that would be up to the individual Government, i.e the sum of its corrupted whole.  


Feel free to read the document again -  http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1416/neutral-control-principal-theory

also see how a Government would execute a NTC Crypto - http://forum.qrk.cc/thread/1512/understanding-neutral-control-principal-government   < i use a picture of a BFL device mostly for sweet irony.


** man this new DNA is really helping me think !

[publicjud]

As for quark, insiders either do hold massive amounts of they don't.  It's not a trivial question.  I have read they do which is a deal breaker for me.

What do you call massive amounts?  If I recall you own a "massive amount" of IXC......

[FrictionlessCoin]

As for quark, insiders either do hold massive amounts of they don't.  It's not a trivial question.  I have read they do which is a deal breaker for me.

What do you call massive amounts?  If I recall you own a "massive amount" of IXC......

3% is not massive, especially when I paid cash for it.

Rumors are quark insiders own close to 80% and they didn't pay a dime for it.  That means they will dump on anyone on any rally. 

Huge difference.

Will have to agree with you here.  The way quark was designed, there was massive mining in the first 6 months.  to the tune of 240+ million coins.    Then it drops of dramatically after 6 months to 1% inflation.

So while nobody is looking ( or rather, while everyone sees it as a pump and dump) they accumulate milions of coins using a network of CPUs.   Actually, they want you to believe it is CPUs,  however the Quark algorithm is easily translatable to GPU.  After all, it is almost like running SHA-256 7 times in sequence. 

So the insiders have a GPU farm, while the masses are karnking away with CPU.

IMHO, people playing Quark are being gamed big time!

[FrictionlessCoin]

As for quark, insiders either do hold massive amounts of they don't.  It's not a trivial question.  I have read they do which is a deal breaker for me.

What do you call massive amounts?  If I recall you own a "massive amount" of IXC......

3% is not massive, especially when I paid cash for it.

Rumors are quark insiders own close to 80% and they didn't pay a dime for it.  That means they will dump on anyone on any rally. 

Huge difference.

Will have to agree with you here.  The way quark was designed, there was massive mining in the first 6 months.  to the tune of 240+ million coins.    Then it drops of dramatically after 6 months to 1% inflation.

So while nobody is looking ( or rather, while everyone sees it as a pump and dump) they accumulate milions of coins using a network of CPUs.   Actually, they want you to believe it is CPUs,  however the Quark algorithm is easily translatable to GPU.  After all, it is almost like running SHA-256 7 times in sequence. 

So the insiders have a GPU farm, while the masses are karnking away with CPU.

IMHO, people playing Quark are being gamed big time!

This is exactly what I've been hearing.  Like always, thanks for the technical explanation.

Algorithms that don't use memory like SHA-256 ( Quark is just a variation of this )  can easily encoded to work with GPUs.   Scrypt uses memory but does not use a lot, so it still is efficient with GPUs.   Scrypt_Jane based algos vary with the amount of memory,  the Yacoin variant can use GPUs but not with the kind of speed up as Litecoin's scrupt.

There are memory hard implementations that make GPUs difficult to work with (see memcoin, electreum)  these are truly CPU bound and can't easily be gamedby GPUs.   Primecoin is a CPU bound coin, because the multiprecision operators it requires aren't very efficient on GPUs.  Primecoin however if flawed because it can't raise its difficulty beyond a limit.


Stuff like NXT and MSC aren't really coins because you can't mine them.   So they are kind of like stocks that are strangely enough issued by annonymous people living in Russia (in the case of NXT).

[zavtra]

Okay, coming back to this thread:

I am confused how the OP could struggle for hours to figure out a riddle that he made up himself.

Secondly, there is a general lack of understanding among the cryptocurrency community which permeates this very thread.

Money is not a store of wealth. It's a means of exchange. To try to use it for anything except exchange is misuse, and only hurts the currency.

Which is exactly what is happening with ixcoin.

1. No services
2. No liquidity
3. Little spending.

Low numbers was a mistake with bitcoin, btw. The only thing you're betting one is the complete success of bitcoin, and honestly, doge looks like it has more prospects.

[AtlantisPlatform]

To muddy the water a little more in regards to IX, Jesuits, money and the end of the world.


The new Catholic Pope is a Jesuit Black pope.  He is also the 266th pope and believed to be the last pope who will witness the judgment [and destruction] of the Catholic Church and the end of days.

Given he's already around 70 years old, if this prophecy is true, means we have very little time left.

Like I've been saying for 7 months:  use this once in a lifetime opportunity to make a few million dollars (from just a few thousand dollars) so if the end is coming you'll have some better options to choose from for you and your loved ones.  That's the best one can hope for once the crap hits the fan.

The nutty christians have been saying the end is coming for the last 2000 years. No end is coming, no gods exist, no magic skydude exists, no flying horses, no talking donkeys, no talking bushes, no talking snakes,  no I love you so much I will burn you forever, no magic skyhouse exists, it is all imaginary horseshit. Keep the craziness in churches where the shit belongs.

[publicjud]

The riddle is clear.  We are debating the true meaning of certain things, such as the meaning of IX.

Fiat money, all of it, bitcoin, iXcoin et al, are not money at all, but mere currencies.

For something to be money it also has to be a store of value and no fiat in the history of mankind has ever been a store of value and bitcoin is fiat since it is backed by nothing; hence, like all fiats before it, it will go to zero; therefore, it can never be called money.

Finally, iXcoin is much more than you realize.  It is bitcoin minus all the negatives of bitcoin; therefore; iXcoin is the ideal coin for mass adoption and I believe Bankers, Wall Street, Hedge Funds, etc. are already accumulating it.

The latter is my pure speculation and I put my money where my mouth is.  We should find out in the next 3 months if I'm right.

I might buy some more IX tonight.  Trade some of my other coins for IX.

I had a question Vlad2Vlad about something you said earlier.  You mentioned that bitcoin or Ixcoin could make any change, such as block time if needed.  Wouldn't the majority of Bitcoin users have to agree to this?  otherwise people just stay on the old client?  Just a small point I thought of..

[matthona]

But wait, there is NOT one shred of evidence aliens exist and in fact there is more real scientific evidence that a creator designed the universe.

I know we're wavering way off topic here, but I'm quite curious to hear what this evidence is

[KeyserSozeMC]

But wait, there is NOT one shred of evidence aliens exist and in fact there is more real scientific evidence that a creator designed the universe.

I know we're wavering way off topic here, but I'm quite curious to hear what this evidence is

The sheer fact that everything in the universe follows a pre-calculated mathematical formula.

Even the frequency of the universe, have you ever seen its shape?  It's a heart!

Too many amazing things to blindly ignore.

π

[BulletProof_za]

Litecoin and Dogecoin ?

[crocko]

Hello OP !

Where I can mine / trade for IXC ?

[crocko]

Hello OP !

Where I can mine / trade for IXC ?

Mining will get you little.  10 TH will get you I think 1,000 coins in 1 year.  You can buy that much now for $100.

Cryptsy or Vircurex is where you can buy them.  

Godspeed!

There is no pool for IXC ?
--------------
later update:

sounds me like a SCAM

[matthona]

But wait, there is NOT one shred of evidence aliens exist and in fact there is more real scientific evidence that a creator designed the universe.

I know we're wavering way off topic here, but I'm quite curious to hear what this evidence is

The sheer fact that everything in the universe follows a pre-calculated mathematical formula.

Even the frequency of the universe, have you ever seen its shape?  It's a heart!

Too many amazing things to blindly ignore.

i see you are ASSUMING it is 'pre-calculated' as you have given no evidence for any pre-calculation, you're simply posting your conclusions... I asked for what evidence you had... and i never said there were aliens, simply was curious what evidence you were talking about