2013-10-26 forbes.com - fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulb

[darkmule]

Not saying it will happen but because of that the DOJ will wait for a conviction before doing anything with the seized assets.

Proceeds go to the treasury so it isn't like the FBI gets to keep the funds.

They don't need a conviction, which in a criminal case needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt.  They could lose the criminal case and still win the civil forfeiture case, which is a separate legal action and they only need to win by a preponderance of the evidence in that action.

[notme]

They got to his main stash of Bitcoins.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/25/fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/25/fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road/

Thanks, OP's link was disappointing .

Sorry for being offtopic, but I am not sure how my link didn't work and this one did? They are exactly the same, is this a joke on me or something? :p

Anyway, is it safe to have so much Bitcoin in one single address?

before someone fixed it, the link pointed to http://fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road

[drawingthesun]

before someone fixed it, the link pointed to http://fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road

Oh that makes sense, thanks!

[oakpacific]

And now we know this guy made at least 50 million dollars(250,000 BTCs)of profit in less than 3 years' time.

I wonder how many would want to be the next Ross Ulbricht.

[prophetx]

Not saying it will happen but because of that the DOJ will wait for a conviction before doing anything with the seized assets.

Proceeds go to the treasury so it isn't like the FBI gets to keep the funds.

They don't need a conviction, which in a criminal case needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt.  They could lose the criminal case and still win the civil forfeiture case, which is a separate legal action and they only need to win by a preponderance of the evidence in that action.

interesting, did not realize that.

so  how would they auction these?  just put up the entire lot of 177,000 btc or 250k, whatever it is?  

[Raoul Duke]

They got to his main stash of Bitcoins.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/25/fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/10/25/fbi-says-its-seized-20-million-in-bitcoins-from-ross-ulbricht-alleged-owner-of-silk-road/

Thanks, OP's link was disappointing .

Sorry for being offtopic, but I am not sure how my link didn't work and this one did? They are exactly the same, is this a joke on me or something? :p

I fixed your link, ofcourse they're exactly the same... NOW!

[drawingthesun]

I fixed your link, ofcourse they're exactly the same... NOW!

Hehe, I thought I was going mad!

[DeathAndTaxes]

Not saying it will happen but because of that the DOJ will wait for a conviction before doing anything with the seized assets.

Proceeds go to the treasury so it isn't like the FBI gets to keep the funds.

They don't need a conviction, which in a criminal case needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt.  They could lose the criminal case and still win the civil forfeiture case, which is a separate legal action and they only need to win by a preponderance of the evidence in that action.

Agreed however they likely aren't going to move until the criminal case is over one way or another.   It isn't like the Bitcoins are going to spoil.  They will still be the same bitcoins in 2014 or whenever the criminal phase wraps up, as they are today.

[DeathAndTaxes]

interesting, did not realize that.

so  how would they auction these?  just put up the entire lot of 177,000 btc or 250k, whatever it is?  

It is up to the DOJ.   The sad thing is they have a LOT of experience is selling forfeited assets.  Billions of dollars a year in assets, cars, planes, mansions, fine art, luxury goods, speed boats, you name it they have sold it in the past. So they pretty much have it down to a science.  They will sell it off however they feel will bring in the top dollar. For someone with a lot of money this will be a great way to get some coins without dealing with liquidity issues, or exchange risk, or bank delays.   Win auction, wire the US treasury some funds, get your sizable position of coins.

Regardless this will be a really great headline.  The DOJ doesn't seek forfeiture of things without value.  The news stories of the DOJ auctioning off lots of Bitcoins worth millions will be a big deal.

[coastermonger]

To be honest, I was hoping there wouldn't be some lingering dark cloud hanging over the markets for some time to come.  Uncertainty makes for a terrible compass.

[Puppet]

Whats the uncertainty?  Those bitcoins belonged to DPR, in all likelihood, in a few years they will belong to someone else. What that person will do with them is just as uncertain as what DPR would have done with them. If anything we gained some certainty, namely that these coins wont hit the market for quite some time, and once they do, anyone rich enough to buy such a pile of bitcoins most likely isnt dumb enough to blindly dump them on the market.

[Grinder]

Why is no one discussing the one REALLY important question: HOW were they able to break (supposedly) encrypted wallet and syphon money from it?

In other articles it has been claimed that they only got the coins that the SR software had access to and which belonged to the customers. If the wallet was encrypted the password was probably stored somewhere on the computers they seized.

[Puppet]

Why is no one discussing the one REALLY important question: HOW were they able to break (supposedly) encrypted wallet and syphon money from it?

In other articles it has been claimed that they only got the coins that the SR software had access to and which belonged to the customers. If the wallet was encrypted the password was probably stored somewhere on the computers they seized.

Thats the ("hot") wallet they got access to first. It was much smaller.

[Rampion]

The FBI now owns so many coins that they could take us to single digits with a single dump.

[Puppet]

The FBI now owns so many coins that they could take us to single digits with a single dump.

One can hope...

[LiteCoinGuy]

The FBI now owns so many coins that they could take us to single digits with a single dump.

One can hope...

lol, yes i would like that so see that soon too (but it wont happen) 

they will sell it in some years i think, when he is in jail and the thing is over.

[shawshankinmate37927]

Not saying it will happen but because of that the DOJ will wait for a conviction before doing anything with the seized assets.

Proceeds go to the treasury so it isn't like the FBI gets to keep the funds.

They don't need a conviction, which in a criminal case needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt.  They could lose the criminal case and still win the civil forfeiture case, which is a separate legal action and they only need to win by a preponderance of the evidence in that action.

interesting, did not realize that.

so  how would they auction these?  just put up the entire lot of 177,000 btc or 250k, whatever it is?  

The Federal Reserve will probably be the first ones in line to snatch these up with a big batch of freshly printed dollars.

[marcus_of_augustus]

interesting, did not realize that.

so  how would they auction these?  just put up the entire lot of 177,000 btc or 250k, whatever it is?  

It is up to the DOJ.   The sad thing is they have a LOT of experience is selling forfeited assets.  Billions of dollars a year in assets, cars, planes, mansions, fine art, luxury goods, speed boats, you name it they have sold it in the past. So they pretty much have it down to a science.  They will sell it off however they feel will bring in the top dollar. For someone with a lot of money this will be a great way to get some coins without dealing with liquidity issues, or exchange risk, or bank delays.   Win auction, wire the US treasury some funds, get your sizable position of coins.

Regardless this will be a really great headline.  The DOJ doesn't seek forfeiture of things without value.  The news stories of the DOJ auctioning off lots of Bitcoins worth millions will be a big deal.

Could even be that these particular coins will attract a small numismatic premium ... belonged to DPR, officially sent the US Treasury back their crap, devaluing fiat paper in exchange for bitcoin ... who wouldn't want them?

[bernard75]

The Federal Reserve will probably be the first ones in line to snatch these up with a big batch of freshly printed dollars.

Provided they really manged to get their greedy fingers on them, i think thats something the foundation should get involved with, because it would be catastrophic to have the feds holding and dropping such a large amount on the market. Afterall its just freshly printed bucks, so they dont really care.

[darkmule]

The Federal Reserve will probably be the first ones in line to snatch these up with a big batch of freshly printed dollars.

Provided they really manged to get their greedy fingers on them, i think thats something the foundation should get involved with, because it would be catastrophic to have the feds holding and dropping such a large amount on the market. Afterall its just freshly printed bucks, so they dont really care.

I'd imagine that like other seized items, they would auction them off, even though presumably selling them off slowly would maximize their value.  Then it would be up to whoever bought them to decide what to do with them.  Someone who got them for a song would have a strong incentive to start out with a round of profit-taking and cash in some of them, regardless of the short term impact to the Bitcoin price, stopping when it became less profitable to do so.

Of course, other interests (say the Winklevoss twins) could also pick them up in such a transaction, or someone else with enough money to afford picking up a large quantity of a highly volatile asset.  If the Winklevoss twins got it, they'd have a good incentive to hold onto it and put it in their fund, or something similar, and it wouldn't have much impact on the exchange rate because it would still, essentially, be tied up like it is now, just in a venture rather than with the government.