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Author Topic: Chain Spam  (Read 622 times)
lnternet (OP)
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October 27, 2013, 07:06:10 PM
 #1

This is probably discussed and answered somewhere but

Can the chain become too long?

What if I spam transactions? Like send micro payments between millions of my own accounts?

How many places actually need to store the whole chain? I got it downloaded now but it's quite large already and it's probably gonna get longer faster than memory prices drop?!

Thanks

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According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
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vm1990
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October 27, 2013, 07:10:00 PM
 #2

its not really possible and it got fixed wuite a few versions ago if the chain becomes to long i think it just adds them to the wait list for the next block

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October 27, 2013, 07:12:20 PM
 #3

How many places actually need to store the whole chain? I got it downloaded now but it's quite large already and it's probably gonna get longer faster than memory prices drop?!



With clients like Electrum you dont need to download the blockchain. It might be used in bitcoin-qt as well in future if the blockchain grows to much higher size (not soon)
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October 27, 2013, 07:19:04 PM
 #4

How many places actually need to store the whole chain? I got it downloaded now but it's quite large already and it's probably gonna get longer faster than memory prices drop?!



With clients like Electrum you dont need to download the blockchain. It might be used in bitcoin-qt as well in future if the blockchain grows to much higher size (not soon)

i cant see bitcoin-qt ever dropping the way it uses the full blockchain otherwise the network will slow down alot

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October 27, 2013, 08:55:29 PM
 #5

Can the chain become too long?

Unlikely.

What if I spam transactions? Like send micro payments between millions of my own accounts?

It will cost you money, and it will make the miners (or mining pools) very happy to collect all those transaction fees from you.

How many places actually need to store the whole chain?

  • Solo miners
  • Mining pools
  • Anyone that wants to run a full node

it's probably gonna get longer faster than memory prices drop?!

Unlikely.  Unless the protocol changes, it can't grow by more than 1 megabyte per block.  On average there will be 1 block every 10 minutes, which works out to be 52,560 blocks per year.  At one megabyte per block that is only 56 gigabytes per year.  You can currently purchase a 4 terabyte drive for less than $200.  At a rate of 52.6 gigabytes per year, it would take 76 years to fill that drive.

You really think that larger rives won't be available at reasonable prices in the next 76 years?
naphto
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October 27, 2013, 09:19:34 PM
 #6

If the chain becomes too long, people will use online blockchain and wallets like blockchain.info ....
And you can spam transactions, but if you don't include fees, it will take a lot of time to proceed.
lnternet (OP)
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October 27, 2013, 10:28:25 PM
 #7

Thanks for responses.

Quote
It will cost you money, and it will make the miners (or mining pools) very happy to collect all those transaction fees from you.
Quote
And you can spam transactions, but if you don't include fees, it will take a lot of time to proceed.
Alright I didnt think about the fees at all. What happens to transactions without / with super low fees? They simply don't get included if the one who mined the block doesn't want to right?

However, these non-blocked transactions must still show up somewhere, like be stored as "please insert me for free" somewhere? Is this still spam-able?

Quote
Unlikely.  Unless the protocol changes, it can't grow by more than 1 megabyte per block.
If there is enough transactions to take up more than 1 MB then what? The block can't take them and transactions stack up?

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October 27, 2013, 10:31:19 PM
Last edit: October 27, 2013, 10:33:30 PM by Raoul Duke
 #8


Op: with low fees, the transaction will not proceed (it will stay with 0 confirmation for days/weeks/months).... And won't be included in the blockchain.
DannyHamilton
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October 27, 2013, 11:10:00 PM
 #9

With clients like Electrum . . .
those clients aren't that safe though.
I'd rather use inputs.io

You are suggesting that inputs.io is safer than Electrum???

I think you have a VERY odd sense of the definition of the word "safe".
DannyHamilton
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October 27, 2013, 11:23:24 PM
Last edit: October 27, 2013, 11:40:21 PM by DannyHamilton
 #10

Alright I didnt think about the fees at all. What happens to transactions without / with super low fees? They simply don't get included if the one who mined the block doesn't want to right?

Correct.  If the transaction has very small outputs and does not include a fee, most miners (and mining pools) will not include it in their blocks and it will not confirm.

However, these non-blocked transactions must still show up somewhere, like be stored as "please insert me for free" somewhere?

The transactions will be stored in your wallet and your wallet will attempt to re-broadcast the transactions regularly.

Is this still spam-able?

The current version of the Bitcoin-Qt client (and many other wallets that are based on it) will refuse to acknowledge or relay any transactions that have extremely small outputs and a transaction fee of less than 0.0001 BTC.  Therefore, your transactions will have a very difficult time ever leaving your wallet.  If you do manage to connect to an old or modified client that someone is running, then yes, you can spam their memory and their bandwidth with such transactions.  This is the exact reason that small transaction fees for tiny outputs exist in the reference client.  Anyone who chooses not to implement the reference is willingly taking the risk of being spammed.

If there is enough transactions to take up more than 1 MB then what? The block can't take them and transactions stack up?

Miners that want to maximize their income will fill the next block with the transactions that pay the highest fees per kilobyte.  Any other transactions simply wait around until a block that is not full comes along.  This is why higher fees increase the likelihood that your transaction will be confirmed faster.
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October 27, 2013, 11:38:44 PM
 #11

I think block bloat is an issue that needs to be discussed and resolved. Off-chain will be very necessary in the future.
lnternet (OP)
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October 28, 2013, 11:39:04 AM
 #12

ty Danny, appreciated

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