FreeBitco.in-$200 FreeBTC⭐Win Lambo🔥0.2BTC DailyJackpot🏆$32,500 Wager Contest

[TheQuin]

Ok, I've forwarded your information on to wetsuit.

[1714070510]

1714070510

[imnotabot11235813]

(I created a new account just to keep anonymous on this subject)

How are you guys checking the provably-fair rolls? Because if you are using the Server Seed that the site offers in their History. Then you are doing it wrong.

You need to save the Server Seed Hash that it's going to be used by the server. Copy+Paste on a txt this server seed hash. Then and only then, you can roll. The first thing you need to do when verifying a roll is that the server actually used a seed which has the same hash that you saved.
(Do this on the Free-Game, not the Multiply-BTC)

The math is pristine, yes. But if the server changes the seed that said it was going to use for your next roll, then the whole system falls apart.
Also, the server only needs to do this for the higher prizes. Since you will have to do this around 2500 times to see this behaviour.

The only way you can trust the system is if the server does NOT change the server seed after each roll (that's what Nonces are for). The server only needs to change the seed if you ask the server to provide the seed to you so you can verify the bets. (i.e: Prime-Dice does in fact implement this correctly)

I'm totally ok if the site removes the higher prizes. But if you are going to keep them, at least code a proper provably-fair system implementation.

[Thirdspace]

The only way you can trust the system is if the server does NOT change the server seed after each roll (that's what Nonces are for). The server only needs to change the seed if you ask the server to provide the seed to you so you can verify the bets. (i.e: Prime-Dice does in fact implement this correctly)

I have been wondering about this too, why the server seed changes every roll (on free roll and multiply BTC)
all other dice games I've played seem to implement the same as what primedice does
the server knows server and client (player) seed but player knows only "server seed hash"
this way server might be able to change/adapt his own seed to manipulate the outcome

[MinerHQ]

For 2 years, not even collected 1 bitcoin.

You need to find a way to earn bitcoin instead of collecting from free sites because these sites if they give you 1 BTC for two years then they will go bankrupt soon or later. They got a lot of users and they can't pay all of them so much.

With the free money just try your luck in the lottery and if you're lucky then you may earn 1 BTC. But it is gambling either you will earn or you will lose all those free coins you earn.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

For 2 years, not even collected 1 bitcoin.

You need to find a way to earn bitcoin instead of collecting from free sites because these sites if they give you 1 BTC for two years then they will go bankrupt soon or later. They got a lot of users and they can't pay all of them so much.

With the free money just try your luck in the lottery and if you're lucky then you may earn 1 BTC. But it is gambling either you will earn or you will lose all those free coins you earn.

Yeah. Hoping to get one bitcoin playing the free game is laughable but if he had focused on getting refferrals he would probably had done better. One big whale as a referral can give you lots of profits.

[TheQuin]

The only way you can trust the system is if the server does NOT change the server seed after each roll (that's what Nonces are for). The server only needs to change the seed if you ask the server to provide the seed to you so you can verify the bets. (i.e: Prime-Dice does in fact implement this correctly)

I have been wondering about this too, why the server seed changes every roll (on free roll and multiply BTC)
all other dice games I've played seem to implement the same as what primedice does
the server knows server and client (player) seed but player knows only "server seed hash"
this way server might be able to change/adapt his own seed to manipulate the outcome

I think you mean:
the server only knows the server seed but the player knows the "server seed hash" and client seed which they can change.

AFAIK that is how we do it.

https://snag.gy/W9JsGl.jpg


If you can explain to me what is wrong with that and what exactly Primedice do differently I'll ask wetsuit about it.

[Kakmakr]

The only way you can trust the system is if the server does NOT change the server seed after each roll (that's what Nonces are for). The server only needs to change the seed if you ask the server to provide the seed to you so you can verify the bets. (i.e: Prime-Dice does in fact implement this correctly)

I have been wondering about this too, why the server seed changes every roll (on free roll and multiply BTC)
all other dice games I've played seem to implement the same as what primedice does
the server knows server and client (player) seed but player knows only "server seed hash"
this way server might be able to change/adapt his own seed to manipulate the outcome

Are you saying that Freebitco.in is manipulating the server seed? Have you tested this and is there any method to test that they are not changing the server seed? This might be a unexploded Bombshell if you can prove that Freebitco.in is manipulating the outcome of the Free Roll & Multiply games.

This whole site is built on trust that was established over years and years of honest and timeous payments to it's users. How is the Lottery system different than the implementation of the Provably Fair system of the Free Roll & Multiply games?

When allegations are made, people must provide the proof.  

[TheQuin]

Are you saying that Freebitco.in is manipulating the server seed?

This is why I don't understand what they are going on about. Like every other provably fair site we give you the hash of the server seed before the roll. Then after the roll, we reveal the server seed and you can check it against that hash. The client seed you are free to change, use static or random.

Edit: I should have said "every other provably fair site that I've used".

[Juggy777]

Are you saying that Freebitco.in is manipulating the server seed?

This is why I don't understand what they are going on about. Like every other provably fair site we give you the hash of the server seed before the roll. Then after the roll, we reveal the server seed and you can check it against that hash. The client seed you are free to change, use static or random.

Edit: I should have said "every other provably fair site that I've used".

I'm bit surprised that a reputed site like freebitco has to time and time come out and give an explanation it's kind of boring dude, there're hundreds of false claims and each one has been answered and cleared by the team and the owners, but bringing this stupid stuff again and again is dam boring. Do you realise they're the best probably fair faucet site out there so stop boring us with this idiotic claims. I'm sure sooner or later we'll learn to ignore such posts so people will stop posting such bs.

[Warfare]

LOTTERY ROUND 155
This round, the winner with the lowest number of tickets is #10 with 1,943 tickets.
#1 won 1.26644511 BTC with 49,292 tickets.

[Thirdspace]

I think you mean:
the server only knows the server seed but the player knows the "server seed hash" and client seed which they can change.
---snip---
If you can explain to me what is wrong with that and what exactly Primedice do differently I'll ask wetsuit about it.

the computation is done on server side and needs both seeds to produce result
the reason server only reveals server seed hash is to prevent the player to calculate future results
the reason server has to keep the same server seed is to guarantee fairness to the player
when provably fair is raised, server seed is revealed for proving previous results
and player can check if the server seed hash matched the server seed used, thus provably fair

I'm not good in explaining this stuff, but I remember it was discussed somewhere on this forum or dice's chat
about the key factor of not changing server seed to provide fairness to player
a server seed + nonce = pre determined output sequences, to prevent server cheating

if a server can predict player's bet pattern and player doesn't change his seed, server can generate seed to anticipate such condition
if I'm not mistaken, early primedice also change seed on every roll but not anymore
now afaik primedice and just-dice only change server seed on (player) demand

this way server might be able to change/adapt his own seed to manipulate the outcome

When allegations are made, people must provide the proof. 

I'm not accusing, only state the possibilty

[TheQuin]

if I'm not mistaken, early primedice also change seed on every roll but not anymore
now afaik primedice and just-dice only change server seed on (player) demand

To be honest I think there might be good reasons that the other sites haven't changed but I'm not really an expert in that field. It could be more about a matter of opinion as to which system is fairer. If you're concerned I'd suggest PMing wetsuit and having a chat about it. I know he hasn't logged on to the forum for a while, he's been away but should be back very soon. I think me getting in the middle of the debate would probably only confuse things.

[BTCevo]

I do not know how to win bitcoin, but Satoshi exactly! For 2 years, not even collected 1 bitcoin

You must be crazy then to think that claiming faucet in 2 years will earn you 1 btc. You can calculate it by yourselves, 400sat per claim(this is mine) * 24 hours * 30 days * 12 month = 3,456,000 which is 0.03456 btc and 2 years you will get 0.069. This is a perfect 24 hours that we count. I do not think you can claim it 24 hours unless you are using bot but this is not allow on their site so you will get lower

[imnotabot11235813]

First of all, I didn't directly accuse that FreeBitco is manipulating the Rolls because I wouldn't be taken seriously if I did so.
It's better to provide all the information necessary so you can check it by yourselves and even maybe convince FreeBitco to improve their system.


I will explain this in two stages:
First the current (and exploitable) implementation:

1) You Login into FreeBitco and click on the "THIS GAME IS PROVABLY FAIR!"
2) In this screen, the Server *promises* that it will calculate the next roll using your Client Seed + next Nonce + Server Seed. (Server sends you the Hash of that seed so you can check it later, that's perfectly implemented).
3) You save the server seed hash and you hit Roll.
4) The server does all the math. Using the Client Seed, the Nonce, and the secret Server Seed.
5) Then here is where the server MAY say: Oh wait.. I do not like this roll. Let's use the Client Seed, the Nonce, but let's break the promise of which Seed we were going to use.
6) You verify your bet using the bet History (which was saved by the Server). The math here rounds up perfectly and the game seems provably-fair.

There are two problems for you with this implementation regarding how can you verify that you were cheated:
1) You will need to do this for probably thousands of rolls until the server attempts to cheat on you.
2) Once you eventually find a discrepancy, you will be left proof-less and alone. The server promised you it was going to use Hash111 but ended up using Hash222, in the History it stored Hash222 for you to verify/share the bet result.


Now, here is the basic idea on how it should be implemented:

1) Server generates a new secret Seed. Sets the Nonce to 0. And returns you the SHA256 of that Seed.
2) When you roll, you provide your own Client seed to the server.
3) The server calculates the roll using it's secret seed + nonce + client seed.
4) Server increases the Nonce by one. And keeps the same server seed for the next roll.
5) If I want to verify my bets (and only if I ask for it). The server reveals it's secret seed to me and re-executes step 1 for future rolls.
6) The server should add an entry to the history saying that I manually requested the server to reveal the seed.

This way, the server should be able to calculate all rolls without changing the promised seed unless you ask for the seed. Also, you don't need to save each server seed hash and compare it with the one used in the rolls history.
(It can still cheat you into saying you asked for the Seed for verifying before you actually rolled and thus generating a losing seed)
But at least this way it will be way more visible for you to see if your are being cheated, because you will see that the server changed the seed without you asking to reveal the seed.

It's not perfect. But this way it will be extremely hard for them to conceal the cheating.
To compensate the problem of this proposed approach, an option is that the server provides and resets the server Seed and Nonce every week. This way the server cannot cheat the History by saying that you requested the seed for verifying when you didn't.
You will only be able to verify your bets every week, but it can be optional with a setup with a cooldown.


Sorry for the delayed response. I'll do my best to answer all the details.

[rolleth.io]

seems to be really cool, definitely gonna try out

[BitcoinMarshal]

LOTTERY ROUND 155
This round, the winner with the lowest number of tickets is #10 with 1,943 tickets.
#1 won 1.26644511 BTC with 49,292 tickets.

Its very good now low stake holders winning very regularly and many can hope for win as well because in start I watch most of members with very huge number of tickets was enjoying this all but after many rounds now all is changing just we need this lady of luck 

[carlfebz2]

For 2 years, not even collected 1 bitcoin.

You need to find a way to earn bitcoin instead of collecting from free sites because these sites if they give you 1 BTC for two years then they will go bankrupt soon or later. They got a lot of users and they can't pay all of them so much.

With the free money just try your luck in the lottery and if you're lucky then you may earn 1 BTC. But it is gambling either you will earn or you will lose all those free coins you earn.

Yeah. Hoping to get one bitcoin playing the free game is laughable but if he had focused on getting refferrals he would probably had done better. One big whale as a referral can give you lots of profits.

Seems like we do have a die hard fan or user of Freebitco.in. Imagine in 2 years time he do have the main target of 1 BTC thru faucets? even those amounts accumulated be used either on hi-lo game and lottery there would still have small chances on winning. Referral is easy to say but would really be hard to invite someone.

Reading up conversations above about possible manipulation of seed,i cant make a word yet ive treated all gambling sites do have shady part.

[MinerHQ]

For 2 years, not even collected 1 bitcoin.

You need to find a way to earn bitcoin instead of collecting from free sites because these sites if they give you 1 BTC for two years then they will go bankrupt soon or later. They got a lot of users and they can't pay all of them so much.

With the free money just try your luck in the lottery and if you're lucky then you may earn 1 BTC. But it is gambling either you will earn or you will lose all those free coins you earn.

Yeah. Hoping to get one bitcoin playing the free game is laughable but if he had focused on getting refferrals he would probably had done better. One big whale as a referral can give you lots of profits.

Seems like we do have a die hard fan or user of Freebitco.in. Imagine in 2 years time he do have the main target of 1 BTC thru faucets? even those amounts accumulated be used either on hi-lo game and lottery there would still have small chances on winning. Referral is easy to say but would really be hard to invite someone.

Reading up conversations above about possible manipulation of seed,i cant make a word yet ive treated all gambling sites do have shady part.

The amount people get from each claim from a faucet is very small so it is quite hard to find an active referral. Members may be active for a while then they will understand it is not worth and move on to other ways to earn money. So if one plan to earn money from referrals then should promote continuously and get new referrals on a regular basis to have regular income from these referrals. Maybe few members will be active for a long time but that doesn't mean that every referral can be active for a long time.

[ocid]

I do not know how to win bitcoin, but Satoshi exactly! For 2 years, not even collected 1 bitcoin

You must be crazy then to think that claiming faucet in 2 years will earn you 1 btc. You can calculate it by yourselves, 400sat per claim(this is mine) * 24 hours * 30 days * 12 month = 3,456,000 which is 0.03456 btc and 2 years you will get 0.069. This is a perfect 24 hours that we count. I do not think you can claim it 24 hours unless you are using bot but this is not allow on their site so you will get lower

it would not be possible for someone to keep claiming every day within 24 hours just to get the faucet, if using bots can run smoothly to claim the faucet every hour, it is likely that many people are doing it and the possibility of this site going bankrupt.

[TheQuin]

Now, here is the basic idea on how it should be implemented:

I'll give you the same answer I gave Thirdspace:

if I'm not mistaken, early primedice also change seed on every roll but not anymore
now afaik primedice and just-dice only change server seed on (player) demand

To be honest I think there might be good reasons that the other sites haven't changed but I'm not really an expert in that field. It could be more about a matter of opinion as to which system is fairer. If you're concerned I'd suggest PMing wetsuit and having a chat about it. I know he hasn't logged on to the forum for a while, he's been away but should be back very soon. I think me getting in the middle of the debate would probably only confuse things.

I know he's going to start work on the rebrand soon which involves recoding the whole site from the ground up. That probably makes it a good time to discuss this. I have no idea why you feel the need to hide your identity but I really don't think you need to. We've got problem discussing suggested improvements.