proof bitcointalk will do anything for bfl scammers

[m3sSh3aD]

I've never had anything moderated and I'll be the first admit that I've wrote some to the point in your face things, swore and belittled people for being spanners.

Then I get this...

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

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INABA IS A SCUM BAG! I hope you get DDOS josh, You cockroach!

What the hell, that's not even mildly insulting, there just facts! So this place takes money for them to advertise here while hey shaft customers left right and center.

The world of bitcoin needs to leave this site, it's old hag and needs to die with bfl & josh the cockroach

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[tvbcof]

I've never had anything moderated and I'll be the first admit that I've wrote some to the point in your face things, swore and belittled people for being spanners.

Then I get this...

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

Quote
INABA IS A SCUM BAG! I hope you get DDOS josh, You cockroach!

What the hell, that's not even mildly insulting, there just facts! So this place takes money for them to advertise here while hey shaft customers left right and center.

The world of bitcoin needs to leave this site, it's old hag and needs to die with bfl & josh the cockroach

Josh might have a little respect from other degenerate scammers for his exploits, but aside from that he's a nobody and anyone who has met him has to believe that he's drugged out or on chemo or something and probably has little time left anyway.  My advice:  Forget about him.

[s1lverbox]

I've never had anything moderated and I'll be the first admit that I've wrote some to the point in your face things, swore and belittled people for being spanners.

Then I get this...

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

Quote
INABA IS A SCUM BAG! I hope you get DDOS josh, You cockroach!

What the hell, that's not even mildly insulting, there just facts! So this place takes money for them to advertise here while hey shaft customers left right and center.

The world of bitcoin needs to leave this site, it's old hag and needs to die with bfl & josh the cockroach

+1 for comment about josh.

[gweedo]

anyone who has met him has to believe that he's drugged out or on chemo or something and probably has little time left anyway.

lol what?  im going ot be honest i've been pretty drunk just about every time i have met Josh but again, lol what?

Dam I need to get out to these meetups more.

[Magazine]

what was with the stuff about chemo lol you nutter

[m3sSh3aD]

I met him at Lindon 2012 convention and I called him out then. Low and behold, I was more than right!

Dirty cockroach scumbag is an understatement but what this post is more about, is this site STILL promotes BFL (I guess they like the cash over who they deal with) and is misleading the new people and spreading disinformation. They still have not delivered all there old orders that are now over... I've lost count, is it 2 years nearly..... Oct/Nov 2011 were they meant to release? Jesus Christ! Lol

Josh you dirty filthy cockroach, and I'm feeling the same sentiment for this website too who allows this scumbag even on here!

I'm going message josh every day just so he doesn't forget what a dirty cockroach he is. Silverspooned prick!

[m3sSh3aD]

site STILL promotes BFL

hmm for $6000 a week or so, would you let a "scammer" post an add on your forum?

hmm... i sure could use $300,000 extra a year. im almost out of hooker and blow money... theymos might be too.

Honestly, what little respect theymos had left has gone to the shitters! He's just as bad as josh for allowing this to go on. As I say, this site needs to die as well imho, bitcoin needs some people who care about its principles over there selfish gains and from people who truely understand what bitcoin is. Unfortunitly this world produces alotnof selfish mother fuckers who only care about number 1!

When the world goes to shit (fast approaching) people like josh will be worm meat! They'll be hanging from the rafters with all the political scum! Barry & Cameron  the main attraction although these pair are only puppets. Rothschild's, queen of UK, queen of Netherlands and blood relatives are the MAIN attraction! I'd have my popcorn ready for that one!

[m3sSh3aD]

site STILL promotes BFL

hmm for $6000 a week or so, would you let a "scammer" post an add on your forum?

hmm... i sure could use $300,000 extra a year. im almost out of hooker and blow money... theymos might be too.

Honestly, what little respect theymos had left has gone to the shitters! He's just as bad as josh for allowing this to go on. As I say, this site needs to die as well imho, bitcoin needs some people who care about its principles over there selfish gains and from people who truely understand what bitcoin is. Unfortunitly this world produces alotnof selfish mother fuckers who only care about number 1!

When the world goes to shit (fast approaching) people like josh will be worm meat! They'll be hanging from the rafters with all the political scum! Barry & Cameron  the main attraction!

But he does make bank eh? Would you pass it up? $300,000 a year? Be honest man...

Yes I would, value is not in the monetary system but in life. Value is only as you persive it but no one can deny that true friends and family is all that one needs to be happy. The financial monopoly game created by the powers that be is just that, a game. A game that creates people like josh and companies like bfl. The world needs to refocus its priorities but now your leading me on to bigger things. Eventually a monetary system should disappear as people look after themselves instead of relying on 'the system' that can't possibly work!

Those who seek security over freedom deserve neither!

This quote is everything encapsulated in a finely put manner! Shame people seek security over everything else :-(

[tvbcof]

anyone who has met him has to believe that he's drugged out or on chemo or something and probably has little time left anyway. 

lol what?  im going ot be honest i've been pretty drunk just about every time i have met Josh but again, lol what?

I only saw him at the 2013 thing in San Jose.  I wouldn't say I 'met' him as he would not look me in the eye or talk to me when I gave him a big ol' Left Coast 'Howdy Josh.'  But anyway he looked like death warmed over.  Very skinny with greyish skin and bags under his eyes and so on.  Maybe that is what hard-core scamming does to a person, but my guess is that crank probably had something to do with it as well.  I didn't see his teeth falling out, but then he wasn't smiling much either.

[Xian01]

But he does make bank eh? Would you pass it up? $300,000 a year? Be honest man...

 Not everyone is a mercenary, Goat.

[tvbcof]

But he does make bank eh? Would you pass it up? $300,000 a year? Be honest man...

 Not everyone is a mercenary, Goat.

I'm not actually sure that I would in this case.  Sitting on 6k BTC ostensibly earmarked to maintain an on-line forum, it might take more than that to get me to screw newbies by playing the part of a feeder for the BFL scum.

But maybe I would.  I dunno.  And thankfully I probably never will.

[tvbcof]

But he does make bank eh? Would you pass it up? $300,000 a year? Be honest man...

 Not everyone is a mercenary, Goat.

I'm not actually sure that I would in this case.  Sitting on 6k BTC ostensibly earmarked to maintain an on-line forum, it might take more than that to get me to screw newbies by playing the part of a feeder for the BFL scum.

But maybe I would.  I dunno.  And thankfully I probably never will.

Well, he did it with GLBSE/Pirate. Why draw the line at BFL?

I didn't really pay much attention to either GLBSE or pirate@40's thing.  I thought that pretty much everyone knew the latter was a ponzi and was going to crater eventually.  GLBSE seemed to me like a political pipe-dream with extreme risk and without much future.  Neither of them seemed like very compelling things to put much effort into and I don't really recall what was advertised where.

Anyway, both the 6k BTC, and the high valuations there-of are relatively newer developments.  It's always possible that ~thermos would see it in the interest of both the community and his own soul to make appropriate use of the authority that fate has delivered to his lap regardless of whatever past actions/in-actions may have transpired.

[tvbcof]

Theymos was part owner of GLBSE. He openly said he thought Pirate was running a ponzi and asked people publicly to create assets on GLBSE selling pirate stuff. That's how I got caught up in it. I unfortunately did not think it was a ponzi and that GLBSE was cool. But then again that was early on. Once GLBSE started to fail Theymos tried to sell his GLBSE stock despite an ongoing SEC investigation (he never got to sell it, GLBSE closed a few days later). Anyway the Pirate stuff on GLBSE made more in fees than everything else combined by miles. Theymos still has some GLBSE coins (as he was the treasurer) and as far as I know has not made the btc address public.

So if he will openly promote a ponzi to collect fees for his company why not take money for BFL adds.

This really is not shocking to me at all.

Anyway free market and free speech. I honestly don't care what adverts are placed as long as they pay the market rate.

My interpretation of Libertarian business philosophy is that if one person end up with money that used to be in another person's pocket, it basically does not matter how it happened (absent overt violence in most cases to be a bit more fair about it.)  The fact that it happened at all is sufficient evidence to prove one party superior in some way to the other and thus the migration of value is simply natural market forces at work.  And the biggest failure would be to time things inappropriately such that more money could have been made by being more patient.

I seem to remember you, Goat, taking some actions to try to make your customer's whole at your own expense when things blew up (although again I did not study things in detail.)  This is why I was a little bit confused about whether you were a true Libertarian (like our friend Theymos.)  Of course such a seemingly noble instinct could very well be simply a setup for future operations, but somehow I just didn't sense that this was the case.  Maybe I'm just to much of a fan-boy or something.

 - edit:  BTW, my interpretation has been developed in part by watching, however casually, the GLBSE and pirate@40 stuff as it went down.

[Xian01]

Anyway free market and free speech. I honestly don't care what adverts are placed as long as they pay the market rate.

 This is why this community is such a brutal dichotomy. On one hand, you have people with a sense of decency, morality, and ethics facing-off against fraudsters, criminals, and dishonest actors.

 Meanwhile, the unscrupulous landlord is profiteering all the way to the bank while his tenants get fleeced and burned.

 Shameful place Thermos has let this place become.

 Don't think I've ever "virtually met" a person running forums displaying such utter disregard and lack of integrity.

 It's disgusting.

[Xian01]

Anyway I'm not sure how we could regulate adverts if we wanted too. BFL is a scam to some, but awesome for others. Some people I know for a fact made shit loads of money by investing in BFL early.

 Sure, people who invested in BFL FPGA's profited years ago. It cannot be argued that the BFL we've seen since their ASIC rollout is a different, more malicious company than when they were manufacturing FPGA's. It just so happens that this is about the time a certain new COO took the helm.

 The point is, yes, you can regulate adverts very easily; Ignore bids from people who have low trust, or have incensed the community enough to the level out outrage we see with BFL. Personally, if I was running a forum, and some belligerent troll such as our favorite COO wanted to throw money at me to advertise, while simultaneously shitting all over the community he wants to advertise on, I would turn him away, rudely, on principle. I would be embarrassed to allow them to advertise in my community.

 It's called "Having a moral compass", and Theymos' is clearly broken beyond repair.

[SaltySpitoon]

People don't seem to understand, that the Admins of this site don't necessarily find BFL to be a scam company... This has been debated over and over. While you think BFL is a scam, those that were lucky enough to get their BFL products early, and made a ton of coin may feel differently. Its pretty obvious that BFL is horribly run, and they are incompetent when it comes to meeting deadlines, however had they been a flat out, black and white scam case, they would have shipped nothing at all, and ran off with their customer's money after 6 months of missed deadlines when everyone had already cut their losses and figured it was a scam.

I don't know how I personally feel about BFL, its really a gray area. I think they have mistreated their customers, but at the same time, its impossible to say that they are a complete scam because they have shipped product. While they have missed deadline after deadline, there was never anything in their terms that said, YOU WILL MAKE A ROI. If it was a guarenteed thing, they wouldn't be selling hardware in the first place, and just mining with it. It should have been their first priority to help their customers as much as possible, which they obviously have not done, however that just makes them guilty of bad business practice, not being a scam.

The argument that people have that Theymos is being corrupted by BFL's advertising money is incredibly stupid. First off, there was a month stretch where BFL purchased no advertising. Second, I did the calculation before, had BFL not been involved in the auction process, the Auctions would have yielded an average of .19 BTC less per week. And third, Theymos does not get the advertising money... While the staff does get paid about 15% of the advertising revenue per month, that .19 BTC X 4 Weeks = .76 BTC. Split between 40 staff members, do you really think Theymos or any of the staff would really be corrupted by .02 BTC? I mean, suuuuure if BFL wanted to pay an additional 100 BTC to the staff to talk nicely about their product, there would be an argument there, however I really realllllly highly doubt that Theymos or the rest of the staff would sell out for an additional .02 BTC.

[Mike Christ]

If people will allow themselves to be scammed, then I have no sympathy for them; it is in your every interest and your complete burden to ensure the company you're buying from is competent and just.  There are no guarantees, no matter who you're trading with.

The ads, if anything, should be a black hole of money for BFL if people actually did this and consequently refused to buy from them, and I hope the losses that ensue for failing to be cautious encourages them to be so.  This is what you get in a free market; you have to be able to filter the good from the bad, and if BFL is not a good company to buy from (as has been stated numerous times in the Bitcoin community), then the ads should not be a bother to the informed person.  The ads will thus naturally go away once BFL no longer profits from them; the fact that they're still there says there's still changes to be made in the community's behavior.

[tvbcof]

yeah, its not like the advert money is getting the mods to get rid of the 100,000 anti bfl threads...

people can read all they want about bfl.

Didn't you yourself say that your perception was influenced by officially displayed ads on this site?  I know that that made some impression on me before I wised up.

I cannot blame anyone for missing certain things in the vast sea of garbage here on Bitcointalk.  That said, complaints about BFL are so pervasive and convincing that nobody who is paying any attention at all should have missed them and got drawn into deeper research.

--- re to other post ---

As for BFL, I know for a fact that they proudly proclaimed things that they had to have known were flat out lies with respect to timing and development/manufacturing progress at least.  I also know for a fact that they used extraordinarily deceptive strategies on their sales page because I marched all the way through them without getting any indication that had I sent money, I'd be waiting for many months before I saw any hardware.  If ever.

This alone make BFL total shit-bag scum in my book.

Ya, some people may have eventually made money, but how much more would they have made if they had bought honestly promoted gear and mined it rather than sitting around with their thumbs up their ass for six months waiting for gear which was obsolete by the time it arrived?  Or just sat on BTC (my strategy)?

Even if some people did end up making money hashing with BTC gear, it was a result of valuations of BTC in the marketplace and BFL had exactly zero to do with that.

[tvbcof]

My interpretation of Libertarian business philosophy ...

I have dealt with the Libertarian party in my State because they run an open government project.  I have also been to the CATO institute several times for talks.  Those people have little in common with people like Theymos who simply use Libertarianism as an excuse to engage in criminal behavior and then claim no responsibility for their actions.

I formally apologize for using such a broad brush.  Even I don't believe it fully, and I know plenty of genuine Libertarians who have decent ethics and who I trust completely.

[tvbcof]

@Bullionado

One man's rampant hate is another man's constructive criticism.

In my opinion, newbies are best served by being strongly warned not to blindly trust anything, and especially not anything on bitcointalk.org.

You can learn a lot here, and probably make some good contacts.  As another guy said, there are a lot of people here who have good ethics and are trustworthy.  Even those who are not often have valuable information.  But it takes time and effort to sort things out.

For all the 'hate' that Thermos has drawn, or outwardly appears to have, he did try to implement a trust system.  I'm not sure how effective it is at this time or how much potential it has for effectiveness as it ages, but it seems like a worthwhile experiment at least.