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Author Topic: Why Bitcoin is a better choice as a currency for Americans than gold  (Read 3521 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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August 08, 2012, 10:02:41 PM
 #21

When shortages happen your grandkids likely will already be dead.  The US has the largest reserves of coal and with shale gas has upward of 100+ year supply.  Most of that is unexplored so it could be easily triple that.   

But wait you say we don't have enough oil?  Well we haven't done any real exploring of either cost if 30+ years so we really don't know how much oil we have.  Still there isn't anything magical about oil.  If the price of oil and thus gasoline ends up being significantly higher per unit of energy compared to nat gas expect to see nat gas cars hitting the road.

The US has a lot of problems but lack of fossil fuels isn't one of them. 
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August 08, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
 #22

When shortages happen your grandkids likely will already be dead.  The US has the largest reserves of coal and with shale gas has upward of 100+ year supply.  Most of that is unexplored so it could be easily triple that.   

But wait you say we don't have enough oil?  Well we haven't done any real exploring of either cost if 30+ years so we really don't know how much oil we have.  Still there isn't anything magical about oil.  If the price of oil and thus gasoline ends up being significantly higher per unit of energy compared to nat gas expect to see nat gas cars hitting the road.

The US has a lot of problems but lack of fossil fuels isn't one of them. 


You are still dreaming the failed America dream...

 Undecided

I am sorry for you.
DeathAndTaxes
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August 09, 2012, 12:04:59 AM
 #23

A D&T Public Service Announcement for the reading impaired:

Quote
The US has a lot of problems but lack of fossil fuels isn't one of them. 

This has been a D&T Public Service Announcement for the reading impaired
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August 10, 2012, 10:30:15 PM
 #24

If the whole world were to change their currency tomorrow and had the choice between gold or Bitcoin, Americans would be well served if Bitcoin was chosen. The reason being, we are richer in Bitcoin compared to the rest of the world than we are in gold compared to the rest of the world.

In tons of gold, the United States holds 8,133 out of a total 30,623 with the closest holder being Germany with 3,396. That is 26.5% of the world's gold controlled by the United States. (according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve)


Those numbers refer to the government reserves don't they? As far a the citizens go Americans have much less gold than people in Europe do. This is mostly due the outlawing of gold trade for several decades in the 20th century.

While bitcoins are nice gold has the advantage of being able to be sold almost anywhere. Any pawn shop, jewellery store, coin store or private collector will give you fair value for gold. The gold market is orders of magnitude larger than the bitcoin market.

Gold has never been a common every day currency, the coins would be too small. Gold has always been rich persons money where a small coin could hire 10 men for a days work. I don't think gold and bitcoins will ever be in competition as currencies due to this.

Just my little contrarian argument.
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August 10, 2012, 11:29:08 PM
 #25

While bitcoins are nice gold has the advantage of being able to be sold almost anywhere. Any pawn shop, jewellery store, coin store or private collector will give you fair value for gold. The gold market is orders of magnitude larger than the bitcoin market.
For now. The bitcoin market is growing rapidly though.

Gold has never been a common every day currency, the coins would be too small. Gold has always been rich persons money where a small coin could hire 10 men for a days work. I don't think gold and bitcoins will ever be in competition as currencies due to this.
See Shire Silver for the counterargument to gold not being usable in everyday trade.

I think bitcoins and Shire Silver complement each other nicely. Bitcoins are great for Internet and other electronic transactions, while Shire Silver fulfills the need for in-person anonymous transactions.

Shire Silver, a better bullion that fits in your wallet. Get some, now accepting bitcoin!
miscreanity
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August 11, 2012, 12:49:45 AM
 #26

In tons of gold, the United States holds 8,133 out of a total 30,623 with the closest holder being Germany with 3,396. That is 26.5% of the world's gold controlled by the United States. (according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve)

Those numbers refer to the government reserves don't they? As far a the citizens go Americans have much less gold than people in Europe do. This is mostly due the outlawing of gold trade for several decades in the 20th century.

AFAIK, yes. Estimates of above-ground gold are around 170,000 tons, of which the ~30 level is held by governments and supranational organizations.
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August 11, 2012, 01:11:37 AM
 #27

OP thanks! i didnt learn a thing abt btc but I did learn why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots and assholes...
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August 11, 2012, 01:20:14 AM
 #28

Gold has never been a common every day currency, the coins would be too small. Gold has always been rich persons money where a small coin could hire 10 men for a days work. I don't think gold and bitcoins will ever be in competition as currencies due to this.
See Shire Silver for the counterargument to gold not being usable in everyday trade.

I think bitcoins and Shire Silver complement each other nicely. Bitcoins are great for Internet and other electronic transactions, while Shire Silver fulfills the need for in-person anonymous transactions.

I agree that silver makes a fine everyday currency. Up until the recent century it had been the case for millennia. Of course this was entirely possible due to inexpensive coining sponsored major governments. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_silver for a bit of history on the importance of cheap mintage.

Any silver currency that has a high premium over intrinsic value will have great resistance becoming an accepted currency. Even if you enforce a higher value to justify a premium then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law comes into play.
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August 11, 2012, 01:48:49 AM
 #29

Gold has never been a common every day currency, the coins would be too small. Gold has always been rich persons money where a small coin could hire 10 men for a days work. I don't think gold and bitcoins will ever be in competition as currencies due to this.
See Shire Silver for the counterargument to gold not being usable in everyday trade.

I think bitcoins and Shire Silver complement each other nicely. Bitcoins are great for Internet and other electronic transactions, while Shire Silver fulfills the need for in-person anonymous transactions.

I agree that silver makes a fine everyday currency. Up until the recent century it had been the case for millennia. Of course this was entirely possible due to inexpensive coining sponsored major governments. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_silver for a bit of history on the importance of cheap mintage.

Any silver currency that has a high premium over intrinsic value will have great resistance becoming an accepted currency. Even if you enforce a higher value to justify a premium then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law comes into play.

Did you visit the link I posted? Its to a gold product, not silver. Shire Silver is a brand.

Also, there's no such thing as intrinsic value. The cards are worth more than spot price because of the added values like putting the metal into a more usable form suitable for everyday trade. But of course, what it will trade for is up to the market, just like with bitcoins (which also have no intrinsic value but trade as the market determines.)

Yes, when governments create the money, as in coining silver, they sometimes do it "for free". But the actual price of the coining is in the power it gives the government. Money is a product, and like any product it needs to make a profit of some sort for its producer. I would rather have that profit be readily observed and quantifiable as part of the price of the money than as an invisible lever of power wielded behind closed doors.

And Gresham's Law only applies when government forces people to accept bad money. Bitcoin (and others) will outcompete even government monopoly money and put an end to legal tender laws that enable Gresham.

Shire Silver, a better bullion that fits in your wallet. Get some, now accepting bitcoin!
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August 11, 2012, 02:47:21 AM
 #30

+1 what evoorhees said.

Also nobody has pointed out yet in this thread the real problems with the gold standard of money:

Either:

1) You are using physical specie, requiring purity and weight measurement on a regular basis.  This is a real pain or will require huge investment in the right machinery.    INCONVENIENT

or:

2) You are using paper "representing gold" (or stamped metal) and are never sure the issuer has the gold or paper is not counterfeit, or the stamped gold has not been shaved or "coined" or otherwise doctored in a value reducing manner.  GAPING SECURITY HOLE

Not to mention:

3) Uncontrolled and unknown inflation or money supply shocks are possible

And lets not forget:

4) Can be difficult to hide from enterprising neighborhood entrepeneurs / government thugs / annunaki rebel forces

5) Au dice would be a lot slower




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August 11, 2012, 03:56:28 AM
 #31

So, at the moment, it would benefit all Americans to start pushing Bitcoin as a viable currency and start pushing that 40% higher before other countries catch on and tip the scale in their favor. And at current prices, that would not be very difficult to do.

Say you hold $40 worth of Bitcoins today and they go up to $1,000. You've made $960 over that time period. You got $1,000 at the end since you have $1,000 worth of Bitcoins. But you gave up $40 today, since you could have sold them for $40.

Say you have no Bitcoins today. You buy $40 worth of them. They go up to $1,000. You've also made $960. You got $1,000 at the end. But you gave up $40 today, since you used them to buy the Bitcoins.

So it basically makes no difference who holds them today.


Try trading with any size, and your example becomes useless.
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August 14, 2012, 10:08:32 AM
 #32

Try trading with any size, and your example becomes useless.
We're in the imaginary world where Bitcoins are useful as a real currency. You are, of course, correct in the real world where Bitcoins are not yet even remotely close to being usable as a real currency due to, among other things, the inability to acquire realistic quantities in reasonable timeframes.

I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
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August 14, 2012, 10:28:18 AM
 #33

Sorry OP, but the American Dream is over...

No digital currency in this planet is going to save the largest consumer of natural resources from a catastrophe. The whole USA infrastructure is based on fossil fuel. When shortages start to happen, no gold or Bitcoin is going to replace the energy necessary to obtain the essential goods of living.

Prepare yourself for hard labour. That is going to be your local currency.

http://youtu.be/cJ-J91SwP8w

Geez..are there still people who think we're running out of oil?

I'm grumpy!!
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August 14, 2012, 07:30:58 PM
 #34

Geez..are there still people who think we're running out of oil?

This kind of statement always makes me smile, it seems that there are people who believe there is a conspiracy behind everything.  I will answer your question with a question.

Geez..are there people who think there is some secret government plot that is breading dinosaurs and then sticking them in the ground to make more oil?  Roll Eyes
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