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Author Topic: Mining Farm Capacity Planning  (Read 234 times)
SupaDude
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March 30, 2018, 05:46:17 PM
 #1

1) How many S9 miners can we run with 150KVA transformer, 400A 3Phase, 208v? Please post your calculation formulae, I want to see how far my math and education is off.
2) We have (30) 2pole 20A breakers planned to feed 5 shelves with 60 S'9s and 10 L3"s
3) What is the best UL certified PDU option for rows of 10 miners?
4) Who has the best pricing on industrial shelving and what vendors?

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March 30, 2018, 06:05:55 PM
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1)  Depends on the speed of your S9s, to a small degree.

Presuming 13.5TH, they draw 0.098W/TH, so 1323 Watts FOR THE CHIPS ONLY.  Bitmain lies when they say that is "At the wall".  Add another 10% for power supply inefficiency, control board power, fans, etc.  So lets call it 1455 watts each.

Blokforge recently posted this video: https://youtu.be/gMZSEV6H-_4, which shows 1458 watts on a 13.5TH unit, so 10% is close.

2)  At 208V, each miner is going to draw about 7 amps (6.995 something per my calc)
2a)  A 20 Amp breaker can be continuously loaded at no more than 80%, so 16 amps.
2b)  Therefore you can run (2) S9s per 20 amp breaker
2c)  Therefore you have enough breakers to run all the S9s, but not the L3s.

4)  Built mine out of Unistrut (well, the similar material available from Home Depot).  Much stronger and re-designable vs. commercial shelving.  Likely much cheaper.  My setup has (5) 10' shelves that each hold (10) units.  Those are replicated as needed.

I mine bitcoin for a living, and I mine at Kano.is!
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SupaDude
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March 30, 2018, 06:21:22 PM
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1)  Depends on the speed of your S9s, to a small degree.

Presuming 13.5TH, they draw 0.098W/TH, so 1323 Watts FOR THE CHIPS ONLY.  Bitmain lies when they say that is "At the wall".  Add another 10% for power supply inefficiency, control board power, fans, etc.  So lets call it 1455 watts each.

Blokforge recently posted this video: https://youtu.be/gMZSEV6H-_4, which shows 1458 watts on a 13.5TH unit, so 10% is close.

2)  At 208V, each miner is going to draw about 7 amps (6.995 something per my calc)
2a)  A 20 Amp breaker can be continuously loaded at no more than 80%, so 16 amps.
2b)  Therefore you can run (2) S9s per 20 amp breaker
2c)  Therefore you have enough breakers to run all the S9s, but not the L3s.

4)  Built mine out of Unistrut (well, the similar material available from Home Depot).  Much stronger and re-designable vs. commercial shelving.  Likely much cheaper.  My setup has (5) 10' shelves that each hold (10) units.  Those are replicated as needed.


Is there any negative to increase the breaker to 50amp( 50 x .80 = 40/7 = 5.6a) for 5 miners and one PDU per breaker? I wonder if they have a 5 (c13) PDU at great price?

Also, Big Al says here ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2478836.0 ) that for every 11amps of three phase power you can run three miners one for each phase? If true then, 50a x .80 = 40a/11a = 3.63a x 3 miners = 10.9 miners?
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March 30, 2018, 06:49:00 PM
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Is there any negative to increase the breaker to 50amp( 50 x .80 = 40/7 = 5.6a) for 5 miners and one PDU per breaker? I wonder if they have a 5 (c13) PDU at great price?

Also, Big Al says here ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2478836.0 ) that for every 11amps of three phase power you can run three miners one for each phase? If true then, 50a x .80 = 40a/11a = 3.63a x 3 miners = 10.9 miners?

50 amps breakers require 8 gauge wire.  Good luck finding matching receptacles unless your using a PDU that matches that.

Your original post indicated 208V power, which is what I presumed was being supplied to your stated 2 pole breakers, with the 3 phase power balanced between them.  For anything more complicated, hire a certified electrician and have him do the math.  3-phase power is not as simple to work with as single phase.

I mine bitcoin for a living, and I mine at Kano.is!
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Blokforge
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March 30, 2018, 06:56:19 PM
 #5

1) How many S9 miners can we run with 150KVA transformer, 400A 3Phase, 208v? Please post your calculation formulae, I want to see how far my math and education is off.
2) We have (30) 2pole 20A breakers planned to feed 5 shelves with 60 S'9s and 10 L3"s
3) What is the best UL certified PDU option for rows of 10 miners?
4) Who has the best pricing on industrial shelving and what vendors?



With 400A of 208v, you can run 80 S9 13.5, should be able to load panel with 40 breakers, than on a few of them just run 1 S9 and 2 L3.  Obviously just watch the panel when loading up, transformer with poor harmonics will tend to draw lower voltage increasing amperage. 
SupaDude
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March 30, 2018, 07:02:35 PM
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Is there any negative to increase the breaker to 50amp( 50 x .80 = 40/7 = 5.6a) for 5 miners and one PDU per breaker? I wonder if they have a 5 (c13) PDU at great price?

Also, Big Al says here ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2478836.0 ) that for every 11amps of three phase power you can run three miners one for each phase? If true then, 50a x .80 = 40a/11a = 3.63a x 3 miners = 10.9 miners?

50 amps breakers require 8 gauge wire.  Good luck finding matching receptacles unless your using a PDU that matches that.

Your original post indicated 208V power, which is what I presumed was being supplied to your stated 2 pole breakers, with the 3 phase power balanced between them.  For anything more complicated, hire a certified electrician and have him do the math.  3-phase power is not as simple to work with as single phase.

Correct I was looking for PDU's to match and found 3 phase PDU's here http://www.bitcoinpowerstrips.com it is the marketing page for http://www.raptorpowersystems.com/

I wanted to go from the panel, hard wired directly to the PDU mounted on the shelving. We ordered a WYE/3phase transformer and we have electricians, I just do not like them as much. They are not very helpful and we are shopping around.
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March 30, 2018, 09:08:44 PM
 #7

With 400A of 208v, you can run 80 S9 13.5, should be able to load panel with 40 breakers, than on a few of them just run 1 S9 and 2 L3.  Obviously just watch the panel when loading up, transformer with poor harmonics will tend to draw lower voltage increasing amperage.  

80 s9 running at 6.5-7 amps each would be well over 500 amps. How exactly did you make your math?

400 amp panel @ 80% capacity is 320 amps of usable power. S9s drawing 7 amps each would mean you could run 45 total. You would probably want to run less because you need to leave power for ventilation and other things.


I also run 3 phase 208. My setup is like this.

I run 3 phase all the way to the PDU. To balance power I run them as follows....


Miner layout per PDU:

                  Phase A    Phase B   Phase C
PDU 1:              2            1            1
PDU 2:              1            2            1
PDU 3:              1            1            2


I run 9 breakers per sub panel and balance the 3 phases to the panel this way leaving the 10th breaker for ventilation. The draw across the 3 phases as measured at the subpanel stays within a few amps of each other. (Not all machines pull the exact same amount of power, I have some S9s pulling 1380w, some pulling nearly 1500w depending on batch and PSU used.)


Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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March 30, 2018, 10:23:43 PM
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With 400A of 208v, you can run 80 S9 13.5, should be able to load panel with 40 breakers, than on a few of them just run 1 S9 and 2 L3.  Obviously just watch the panel when loading up, transformer with poor harmonics will tend to draw lower voltage increasing amperage.  

80 s9 running at 6.5-7 amps each would be well over 500 amps. How exactly did you make your math?

400 amp panel @ 80% capacity is 320 amps of usable power. S9s drawing 7 amps each would mean you could run 45 total. You would probably want to run less because you need to leave power for ventilation and other things.


I also run 3 phase 208. My setup is like this.

I run 3 phase all the way to the PDU. To balance power I run them as follows....


Miner layout per PDU:

                  Phase A    Phase B   Phase C
PDU 1:              2            1            1
PDU 2:              1            2            1
PDU 3:              1            1            2


I run 9 breakers per sub panel and balance the 3 phases to the panel this way leaving the 10th breaker for ventilation. The draw across the 3 phases as measured at the subpanel stays within a few amps of each other. (Not all machines pull the exact same amount of power, I have some S9s pulling 1380w, some pulling nearly 1500w depending on batch and PSU used.)



Not sure how your pdu applies one or two miners on one leg only, should be swazzeling across the legs, maybe there are different types i dont know as we have not used them.  When we run 2 pull breakers on 3 phase

13 miners = 84.5amp on leg A and B
13 miners = 84.5amp on leg A and C
13 miners = 84.5amp on leg B and C

ending current per leg is about 145 amp, 52 kva.  within 80% for 75kva transformer feeding the panel.

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March 30, 2018, 10:35:13 PM
 #9

Each PDU has 3 circuits, each powered by 2 of the 3 phases:

circuit 1 = AB
circuit 2 = AC
circuit 3 = BC




Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
jkca
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April 01, 2018, 01:42:21 AM
 #10

Calculations are simple 400 amp x 208 volts x sqrt(3) gives you 144,102 watts of power, at 80% thats 115,281 watts. Our farm the s9's are averaging about 1100 watts each, which would give you 104 s9 miners. The real trick is balancing the load, we have multiple racks of 200 amp services and have yet to balance one perfectly, leg C is always about 15% less then A or B. Also, use larger wire size, when you have a large feed you have to watch for voltage drop, that will cause the miners to draw more power and start popping breakers.

ccgllc
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April 01, 2018, 05:13:51 AM
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Calculations are simple 400 amp x 208 volts x sqrt(3) gives you 144,102 watts of power, at 80% thats 115,281 watts. Our farm the s9's are averaging about 1100 watts each, which would give you 104 s9 miners. The real trick is balancing the load, we have multiple racks of 200 amp services and have yet to balance one perfectly, leg C is always about 15% less then A or B. Also, use larger wire size, when you have a large feed you have to watch for voltage drop, that will cause the miners to draw more power and start popping breakers.

How the heck are you only using 1100 watts per s9?  You running them at 10TH???

I mine bitcoin for a living, and I mine at Kano.is!
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jkca
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April 01, 2018, 01:52:29 PM
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We are running them at colder temperatures at higher voltages, the bitmain power supplies are very temperamental to voltage. If you run one at 120 volts you will be pulling 1400 watts, which is not a good idea. The power supplies get more efficient at higher voltages, and the fans work less when its colder.
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April 01, 2018, 06:03:47 PM
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We are running them at colder temperatures at higher voltages, the bitmain power supplies are very temperamental to voltage. If you run one at 120 volts you will be pulling 1400 watts, which is not a good idea. The power supplies get more efficient at higher voltages, and the fans work less when its colder.


The bitmain power supplies are very temperamental period.  Many refuse to start a miner if the temp is below about 50F.  That is not the point.  Your claiming your S9 miners are running at about 20% higher efficiency than every other S9 miner on the planet.  Please explain in detail how you are accomplishing this.

I mine bitcoin for a living, and I mine at Kano.is!
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jkca
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April 02, 2018, 03:03:13 PM
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I am only telling of my experiences, I have quite a few 3 ph 200 amp clusters, the average wattage is about 1100 watts.
SupaDude
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April 02, 2018, 04:13:38 PM
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I am only telling of my experiences, I have quite a few 3 ph 200 amp clusters, the average wattage is about 1100 watts.


Are you close to data center temps at 71F/22C? Also, if you are moving air do you have any humidity concerns?
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April 02, 2018, 08:22:57 PM
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We have them running around 60F with continuous fresh air, exhausting hot air outside. Humidity is about 40%
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April 03, 2018, 12:04:22 AM
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 #17

1) How many S9 miners can we run with 150KVA transformer, 400A 3Phase, 208v? Please post your calculation formulae, I want to see how far my math and education is off.
2) We have (30) 2pole 20A breakers planned to feed 5 shelves with 60 S'9s and 10 L3"s
3) What is the best UL certified PDU option for rows of 10 miners?
4) Who has the best pricing on industrial shelving and what vendors?



With a 150 KVA transformer you can technically squeeze 416 amps out of it on each line. That is called your full load amps. But as you get closer to 100% capacity the thing is going to get super hot and you start to lose a bit of efficiency, depending on the transformer.

Now, if you are in USA you will wire your receptacles line-to-line, 2 hot wires of 120v. So the formula is:

Amps = Watts / (Sqrt(3) * Power factor * Volts)

So if your first plug uses line A and line B then each line will be loaded with 7.44 amps. You get this by 1455w/(110v * 94%) for each line. If you add a second machine on to line A and line C, then line A now has 12.9 amps and lines B and C have 7.4 amps. Your load total is the number of amps that is the largest of the three.

Math answer DO NOT DO THIS: If you perfectly balanced your phases and loaded your transformer to 100% you could technically have about 96 machines but your transformer is going to be super hot and angry. I definitely would not recommend to EVER load to 100%.

For me, 58-60 machines would be a sweet spot for a 150 KVA transformer. 50%-60% load is efficient and a safe area to be in. Rule of thumb, 80% should be your max.

So each 2 pole breaker is 2 machines.

As for PDU's I can't recommend anything since it really depends what you want the PDU to do. You will have a lot of empty plugs since PDU's usually don't have 1400w+ machines loaded onto it in a data center. You can run directly to outlets if you want cost-effective. Make sure to use the correct rated outlet for your voltage.
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