[SCAM] Is payonix.com a legitimate AISC H/w manufacturer in Australia?

[iikun]

Our website and server are now live again. Thank-you for your patience

still haven't uploaded any pics or video yet tho..?

[1714079463]

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[1714079463]

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[1714079463]

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[sikman]

So all weeekend testing and big show today and no photos or nothing?

What the hell does big show mean anyway if there's still no updates or nothing to show??

It takes about 2 seconds to take a photo, 5 seconds to upload onto imgur.com, and 5 seconds to paste the link here.

Or better yet. Post a eligius stat page.

I looked at the blog. All I see are photo/demonstration promises and "We have almost sold out of all units. Please make sure to place your order before you miss out!"

Mate you gotta show us something. Anything. Before trying to hawk your product.

And where are you on 55 Cavill Avenue? Which shop listing? 12A 6B 11C 11A?

Andrew, what happened to the pictures/video that were supposed to be released yesterday after the show?

Enuff off the bullshit mate, when you say your going to do something, then farken do it and stop beating around the bush. You are your own worst enemy, please read business 101 manual for help.

You could of at least posted a single picture of your devices over the weekend, anything at all?

[Vagnavs]

So all weeekend testing and big show today and no photos or nothing?

What the hell does big show mean anyway if there's still no updates or nothing to show??

It takes about 2 seconds to take a photo, 5 seconds to upload onto imgur.com, and 5 seconds to paste the link here.

Or better yet. Post a eligius stat page.

I looked at the blog. All I see are photo/demonstration promises and "We have almost sold out of all units. Please make sure to place your order before you miss out!"

Mate you gotta show us something. Anything. Before trying to hawk your product.

And where are you on 55 Cavill Avenue? Which shop listing? 12A 6B 11C 11A?

Andrew, what happened to the pictures/video that were supposed to be released yesterday after the show?

Enuff off the bullshit mate, when you say your going to do something, then farken do it and stop beating around the bush. You are your own worst enemy, please read business 101 manual for help.

You could of at least posted a single picture of your devices over the weekend, anything at all?

+1

[Tasweb]

http://openclipart.org/detail/21256/server-by-buggi-21256

[kano]

Our website and server are now live again. Thank-you for your patience

I'm in Sydney Australia.

What hardware is this based on?

Having a device mining means there is a driver of some sort that will mine on it.

If it isn't cgminer, then what is it? (and what's wrong with it)
If it is cgminer, then it's either a custom driver we've never heard about, or ...

We support drivers we have hardware for - since it's clearly not possible to do that with hardware we don't have.
You can overnight a device to me and I'll verify what it is, that it works and thus that you guys are legitimate.
If it doesn't have a cgminer driver, and you do have the actual hardware specs, I can of course write a driver for it also.

[aerobatic]

http://openclipart.org/detail/21256/server-by-buggi-21256

Good find, Tasweb!

[Biffa]

Our website and server are now live again. Thank-you for your patience

I'm in Sydney Australia.

What hardware is this based on?

Having a device mining means there is a driver of some sort that will mine on it.

If it isn't cgminer, then what is it? (and what's wrong with it)
If it is cgminer, then it's either a custom driver we've never heard about, or ...

We support drivers we have hardware for - since it's clearly not possible to do that with hardware we don't have.
You can overnight a device to me and I'll verify what it is, that it works and thus that you guys are legitimate.
If it doesn't have a cgminer driver, and you do have the actual hardware specs, I can of course write a driver for it also.

Good move kano

[Beastlymac]

Our website and server are now live again. Thank-you for your patience

I'm in Sydney Australia.

What hardware is this based on?

Having a device mining means there is a driver of some sort that will mine on it.

If it isn't cgminer, then what is it? (and what's wrong with it)
If it is cgminer, then it's either a custom driver we've never heard about, or ...

We support drivers we have hardware for - since it's clearly not possible to do that with hardware we don't have.
You can overnight a device to me and I'll verify what it is, that it works and thus that you guys are legitimate.
If it doesn't have a cgminer driver, and you do have the actual hardware specs, I can of course write a driver for it also.

+1 send a prototype or production unit to Kano so he can test and verify

[plasmoske]

My scam radar is off the charts with this one.

Timeline so far.

Registers website Oct31st

Registers ABN/company in November1st (Anyone can register an ABN in Australia. ANYONE).
http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByAbn.aspx?SearchText=67+166+546+229

Registers forum username November1st

Says they've been working on it for months with a factory in China. Say they'll deliver by mid December.
Hooookay. So it seems like NRE/manufacturing costs and all that have already been sorted out.
So who's funding this? VC? Banks? Personal savings? Factory order/chip fab on credit? VC/Banks is pretty much NO since they've only just registered the company over a week ago. So it must be their own money. Few cool million for 28nm. Anyhow don't worry about this funding part. Let's move onto the next one.

There's a phone number listed on the website. When you call it, it's not related to their company. When questioned OP about it, he goes it's not their number but an associates of theirs. Right. So when they did the maintenance last night (moving their web host to powweb.com - which is $3.88 a month for all the basics - what professional company does this??? anyhow...), on the maint temp page, that number yet again was listed "Sorry guys. Currently doing server maint. Will be back up 8AM AEST. <insert phone number here>". Wait. Didn't they say it's not theirs? So why list it again on the maint temp page?

And they said there would be a big show on Thursday but it was canceled coz the miner is stuck in customs. But hey guys. Order our miners! So they got it delivered on Friday afternoon. A sample unit. All the way from China. Think about that for a second. And they had 3 days to play around with it and no photos/details/stats were shown. They said Tuesday would be the "big show" day. So Tuesday rolls by. Nothing happens. But hey guys. Order miners! Almost sold out. So what the fuck is big show day anyway? Don't think anyone attended otherwise information would be out everywhere.

So when called out on their bullshit. They say to visit their address which has a working unit (address is listed on the website). Hoookay. So what's at 55 Cavill Ave, QLD? It's a bloody shopping centre. Supermarkets/eateries/restaurants. So when called out about that. They say that they've moved to a new address and you will need to contact them to get it. Doubt they'll be telling anyone their 'new' address. The old address is still listed on the website.

And when reading their blog posts, all you see are "photos are coming!" etc type posts and "units nearly all sold out. buy now!!". If that's not alarming enough. Let's go to the biggest red flag. They insist that they are Paypal verified and that they also accept credit cards, bitcoins and bank transfers.

Well guess what? Try adding a miner to the shopping cart and try to check out. No paypal or credit card as payment method available. What a surprise!! All you see is "Bitcoin (coinbase)" and "Bank transfer" (which they don't even give the details to - I'm sure if you attempted to use this method, they wouldn't even reply back to you).

TL;DR No phone number. No physical address. No names (He says he is Andrew Thomas - I say he is not). No technical details. No safe payment methods (Paypal, credit card). No photos/stats/details. The only photos on the site are cliparts. CGminer dev also never heard of them. Actually nobody has heard of them.

Current Plasmo Scam Score: 10/10.

If I'm wrong, no problems. I'll accept that but so far, no evidence to prove you guys are legit. Feel free to provide evidence to show otherwise. Hopefully you guys are legit as  I'd love to see an Australian ASIC company.

[sushi]

I would say, give them a benefit of doubt.  The voice mail voice sounds people with Chinese accent.  If they have the Chinese Connection, it's possible they may have the unites in production in China, importing them to AU to sell.

If this was a scam, well thought process.  Register a business, looking for a place to rent and setup an e-commerce site (which is not too hard to do).

Renting the retail space is not so cheap and many basement/garage startup use rental address or friends or family business address to initially register the company then, as they succeed, those companies may justify getting their own space.   If this company was the VC funded project, then they should have a public office or the retail space somewhere but if a few people came up with the idea and personal/family funding, it really could be a small operation but trying to do a legit On-Hand Sales rather than the Risky Pre-Orders

I left them a voice mail.  I'll see if I can contact them.  If all things work out, I may go visit them or the other local guy can go visit to confirm.

[keena]

I've dealt with Andrew a few times over the phone. He has always called back (even at 10pm AEST).
I'm one of the people who purchased multiple devices through Payonix AND received re-imbursement via the affiliate system they have in place (yes, credit back to my BTC wallet - WITH confirmations).
I find it hard to believe that scammers would go to so much effort, including offering credit back to those people signing others up.
That being said.. myself and my two investors would very much like to see some specifications of the hardware.

I'd suggest those people who are unsure of them to call them, or visit them. Speak to them over the phone or in person and make your own judgement.
Until I have some valid proof to prove me otherwise, I'm saying they're a genuine business (without much business experience).
I've been there and done that, so I know what's involved.

[plasmoske]

I find it hard to believe that scammers would go to so much effort, including offering credit back to those people signing others up.

You know a smart scammer would actually do just that. Offer an affiliate program to help bring in more victims. And pay the person that helps them. Thus creating legitimacy.

Now this person that helped to bring in more victims would go around telling others, GUYS THESE GUYS ARE LEGIT - THEY PAID ME, thus bringing more helper to bring in more victims. This is the oldest trick in the book.

Haven't seen any proof so far but yeah, I'm still open minded about it. Just somewhat skeptical.

[Andrew Thomas]

We are releasing photos tomorrow of the units. It is impossible to monitor all forums and reply to every bit of skepticism. All we ask is for you to wait and see our product before you label us. We state quite clearly the pictures on our sites are for illustration purposes only. Our full unit will be shown tomorrow. Thanks and excited for everyone to see.

[plasmoske]

Thanks Andrew Thomas. Looking forward to see what you have to show us tomorrow.

[Andrew Thomas]

Your welcome. You will/should all be happy with the look, size, and inside of the units.

[peterepeat]

I spoke with someone from Payonix today, and they said they have 3 units mining at the moment at 1.5 TH using cgminer
The Payonix person said they reverse engineered an ASIC in may and now have a 28nm chip, and will be sending the units out on the 9th of December.
Apparently they only have 3 units left out of 250..... hmmmm and photos plus video "tomorrow"

Has anyone gone up to the Gold Coast to check these guys out and see the hashing hardware?

[Zelek Uther]

I'm in Sydney Australia.
...
You can overnight a device to me and I'll verify what it is, that it works and thus that you guys are legitimate.

If kano vouches for it, that's credibility enough for me.  

[kano]

I spoke with someone from Payonix today, and they said they have 3 units mining at the moment at 1.5 TH using cgminer
The Payonix person said they reverse engineered an ASIC in may and now have a 28nm chip, and will be sending the units out on the 9th of December.
Apparently they only have 3 units left out of 250..... hmmmm and photos plus video "tomorrow"

Has anyone gone up to the Gold Coast to check these guys out and see the hashing hardware?

OK, that's a bit questionable.

Firstly, there were no 28nm Bitcoin ASICs in May.
The only obvious 28nm ASIC that was being designed in May was the KnC ASIC.

Secondly the only ASIC that exists on the market today (and has only for a short while) that can do anything close to 250GH/s per chip is the KnC ... that does something like ~130GH/s per chip.

Thirdly, again, we have no knowledge of any such cgminer driver.

There is one available 28nm ASIC driver in cgminer, the KnC driver.

There is also a soon to be released 28nm ASIC that has a driver already in cgminer written by ckolivas - HashFast.
I'm currently working on another one ... and I think ckolivas is also.
None of these three would be relevant since the companies themselves have yet to release their hardware.

I guess tomorrow may shed some light, but ...

[shamacala]

Dont know if this has been mentioned but Roland did an interview with Andrew last week. (seems genuine enough to me)

http://tinyurl.com/pmg3uy3

[kano]

Yes I too have listened to the YouTube audio interview.

Anyway, if they do send me a device, and it works and it isn't simply a KnC or HashFast, I'll personally fly myself to QLD - not that expensive, about 1 or 2BTC at the moment - and see for my own eyes that they are producing and shipping the device they sent me.

If it is a HashFast, then there is the question of the stock they can get and if they can get 250 of them ...

Edit: though there is someone I could ask about this ...

Edit2: I will add one more interesting note I have a family full of lawyers ... including the fact that my uncle was the Attorney General of Queensland, where these guys are, a while back. So no doubt I could find the appropriate people to contact if there was a problem here