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Author Topic: Inflection point: Bitcoin Comes Under Senate Scrutiny (USA)  (Read 2352 times)
pera
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November 06, 2013, 02:51:38 AM
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Bitcoin is about to get some time in the Capitol Hill spotlight.

A pair of Senate committees will hold hearings on the policy issues raised by virtual currencies in the coming weeks, according to Senate aides, a development that comes amid growing attention from government regulators to digital forms of money.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/11/05/bitcoin-comes-under-senate-scrutiny/

What do you think? are we going to survive?

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antimattercrusader
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November 06, 2013, 02:53:02 AM
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Yes.

Edit; But expect more AML/KYC style bullshit.

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wobber
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November 06, 2013, 02:55:24 AM
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Bitcoin is like a hot babe. You don't get to fuck her, she gets to fuck you. Old US senate men don't know anything. Bitcoin is too great to be stopped.

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November 06, 2013, 03:01:56 AM
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lmao

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User705
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November 06, 2013, 03:06:19 AM
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Nothing will happen but lots of pompous talk.  If they create regulation it won't be enforceable.  Some will follow it others won't.  Life will go on.
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November 06, 2013, 03:09:36 AM
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Life will go on.

True.They might might exchange's lives more challenging though. CampBX is adding an ACH option, which I am looking forward to but figured that is too good to be true, so expect the appropriate murphy's law situation to spontaneously slap me in the face.

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November 06, 2013, 03:12:38 AM
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Provided that their decision doesn't stray from the current FinCEN guidance, there is no issue. At worst, we'll see a drop-off in mining, as mercenary miners flee the swamp of regulation; however, their rigs will then flow, via the market, to people willing to spend their bitcoins for goods and services, rather than to cash out into national currency (as such miners are, according to the current FinCEN guidance, explicitly not subject to regulation). That'd be the extent of the impact, as far as I can see, and it'd be short-term pain for long-term gain.

Of course, if they decide the law needs to change, all bets are off. But whether or not the community continues to exist in its current form, I very much doubt that legislation can cram the Genie of Technology back into its bottle.

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
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November 06, 2013, 03:14:26 AM
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They are just discussing bitcoin. They aren't offering up legislation. And if you read their comments about it, they don't hate bitcoin, they just want to make sure that they understand it. I'm not too worried about this. In fact, I think its bullish.

For Bitcoin to really take off as a currency and as a asset class in the US, we need guidance by the government. Guidance gives everyone the rules and makes everyone feel safe. You can bet that all the big $$ investors in Bitcion businesses are looking forward to what the committee is going to say.

If you haven't heard about what is happening with GAME, check it out.  It's revolutionizing gaming. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1266597.0
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November 06, 2013, 03:22:33 AM
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Seems like paypal and western union dying already and they want to buy the senators to aid their greed with legislation.

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November 06, 2013, 03:23:11 AM
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I'd give my left nut for the end of paypal.

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November 06, 2013, 03:26:47 AM
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They are just discussing bitcoin. They aren't offering up legislation.
[...]

Some issues escalates super-fast in the Senate...

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November 06, 2013, 03:27:50 AM
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Seems like paypal and western union dying already and they want to buy the senators to aid their greed with legislation.
I'd give my left nut for the end of paypal.
Hrm.

Their business practices kind of suck, but... well, they're the only way some people have to receive cash long-distance. I have art friends who get their grocery money from commissions, and they get paid by PayPal because it's easy for them to turn into cash in a shop. My brother doesn't have a bank account, so when he needs some dough fast to meet the rent, Western Union's really the only shop in town. These are not technical people. Sure, I could browbeat them to download Bitcoin and send them some sweet BTCs, but how are they going to quickly and painlessly turn that around into money they can use in their day-to-day purchases? That's still the missing bit. And it's because PayPal and WU have built an answer that they can get away with all the other balderdash.

I'm seriously looking forward to the day that you can walk into any given check-casher and get the local national currency for your bitcoins. It'll be a whole new world.

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
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November 06, 2013, 03:28:31 AM
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They are just discussing bitcoin. They aren't offering up legislation.
[...]

Some issues escalates super-fast in the Senate...

Yeah, so what? Only the conspiracy theorists think that our government is sitting around worried that bitcoin is going to destroy their power.

The government has no incentive to hurt bitcoin.

If you haven't heard about what is happening with GAME, check it out.  It's revolutionizing gaming. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1266597.0
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November 06, 2013, 03:31:30 AM
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Seems like paypal and western union dying already and they want to buy the senators to aid their greed with legislation.
I'd give my left nut for the end of paypal.
Hrm.

Their business practices kind of suck, but... well, they're the only way some people have to receive cash long-distance. I have art friends who get their grocery money from commissions, and they get paid by PayPal because it's easy for them to turn into cash in a shop. My brother doesn't have a bank account, so when he needs some dough fast to meet the rent, Western Union's really the only shop in town. These are not technical people. Sure, I could browbeat them to download Bitcoin and send them some sweet BTCs, but how are they going to quickly and painlessly turn that around into money they can use in their day-to-day purchases? That's still the missing bit. And it's because PayPal and WU have built an answer that they can get away with all the other balderdash.

I'm seriously looking forward to the day that you can walk into any given check-casher and get the local national currency for your bitcoins. It'll be a whole new world.

I can't wait until a money transmitter licensed in the US sets up a bitcoin ATM network.  I would start in my state if I could afford the $300k surety bond, but I would need bitcoin to be way higher first.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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November 06, 2013, 03:45:13 AM
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I think it will be good for bitcoin. More exposure, more testimony about what it actually is (not a ponzi scheme), more legitimate press about its possibilities - both financial and political. It's great to be involved in this thing. Feels like the 1849 gold rush.
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November 06, 2013, 04:07:16 AM
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They are just discussing bitcoin. They aren't offering up legislation.
[...]

Some issues escalates super-fast in the Senate...

Yeah, so what? Only the conspiracy theorists think that our government is sitting around worried that bitcoin is going to destroy their power.

The government has no incentive to hurt bitcoin.
Yet.  How do you see bitcoin getting to trillions total value and remaining completely beyond government control without a fight?  Or you don't see bitcoin getting there which is a possibility also.
antimattercrusader
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November 06, 2013, 04:10:57 AM
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I see the merchant processors (Visa, Mastercard, etc) not wanting bitcoin to become mainstream, thus banks don't want it to become mainstream, thus the government on those people's pocket doesn't want it to become mainstream. That said, I don't think, at least for the moment, anyone seems to care because we're all still here. If it looks like it's going to really take off, expect a fight though. Hopefully by that time we'll be strong enough for the fight.

EDIT:
I also can see the government not wanting it to go mainstream due to tax implications, but in that regard it is not really much different than cash. A responsible government would let bitcoin be and see where it goes, if people embrace it then the responsible government would as well, since government is "by the people, for the people." We shall soon see which path governments choose.

The same could be said about banks. Bitcoin does not necessarily equal the end of banking, they could also embrace this change and come up with new bitcoin based products. That said, I think the banks at least will take the hostile approach.

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November 06, 2013, 04:15:52 AM
 #18

Bitcoin is like a hot babe. You don't get to fuck her, she gets to fuck you. Old US senate men don't know anything. Bitcoin is too great to be stopped.


A good definition of "antifragile" if I ever heard one.

(Damn it Wobber, I had to take you off my ignore list again after seeing two redeeming posts  Undecided)
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November 06, 2013, 04:35:54 AM
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Yet.  How do you see bitcoin getting to trillions total value and remaining completely beyond government control without a fight?  Or you don't see bitcoin getting there which is a possibility also.
Most of the government mechanisms used to control the money supply/inflation rate still apply to bitcoins. Look at a chart of M0 vs MZM sometime; you'll quickly see that the money supply (as counted in physical bills) has not actually increased that much, and most of "inflation" is due to deposits backed by deposits backed by deposits into infinite regress. The trick there, of course, is that that mechanism works equally well no matter what your specie happens to be. Even if M0 cannot increase.

So if the US government wants to maintain control of a US economy where Bitcoin is the #2 currency, they can...
  • Acquire a large BTC stash (the 0.5% of all bitcoins ever which were seized from Silkroad are a good start).
  • Quietly support the BTC price's increase, acquiring additional coins along the way, until the exchange rate reaches turbobull fever dream range.
  • Declare Bitcoins to be legal tender alongside USD, thereby making it regulated the same as USD.
  • Use miner inflow to guarantee "modest inflation" to begin with; once the price is in turbobull range and Bitcoin is well-known, block rewards should dominate and we should see inflationary BTC for the first decade or two. "Encourage" banks to offer BTC savings accounts during this time (shouldn't be hard, given that this is how banks make money, and most people would choose 0.5% interest a year over a goose egg).
  • As block rewards diminish and traditional banks start to take BTC deposits, switch to traditional methods such as reserve ratio manipulation, discount window price-setting, QE bond-buying (buying BTC-denominated fed bonds with the Federal Reserve BTC hoard), and so forth to steer the bitcoin-MZM inflation rate. Little risk is taken on by the Fed, they maintain their control, and the interest rates mean that they slowly increase their hoard of a provably finite resource. It's win-win!

If there is something that will make Bitcoin succeed, it is growth of utility - greater quantity and variety of goods and services offered for BTC. If there is something that will make Bitcoin fail, it is the prevalence of users convinced that BTC is a magic box that will turn them into millionaires, and of the con-artists who have followed them here to devour them.
antimattercrusader
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November 06, 2013, 05:16:07 AM
 #20

turbobull fever dream range.


#1: "Turbobull fever dream range" made my day.
#2: I agree, plus for the added economic benefit of ease of exchange.

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