Bitcoin Forum
August 20, 2019, 12:01:04 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Scams vs Spam  (Read 255 times)
Bardman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 515


Check Polyx Exchange!


View Profile
April 04, 2018, 10:23:24 PM
 #1

It seems to me that most of the posts here are bout merits and spam/shitposting. There are a few posts about scams but most are about merits and spam and I'm not saying it's ok to have spam but isn't more important to stop scams? Has anyone seen all the articles about how many scams happen in the cryptocurrency world? Like this: https://news.bitcoin.com/9-million-day-lost-cryptocurrency-scams/

This forum is certainly part of the problem, most ICO's are advertised here quite freely, a ton of scams do happen here daily as well yet everyone seems so concerned with spam. I have seen people with -16 trust creating signature campaign threads and people joining them, sure it's their fault for joining but why are they even allowed to open such threads?

I can think of a few easy ways right now like why are we even allowing newbies to post in the lending section? At least they shouldn't be able to start threads, most of them are scams and while there are definitely members stopping them like vod and others I still find it weird that everyone cares so much about spam and not enough about scams.

1566259264
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566259264

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566259264
Reply with quote  #2

1566259264
Report to moderator
1566259264
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1566259264

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1566259264
Reply with quote  #2

1566259264
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
DarkStar_
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1958


KnowNoBorders.io


View Profile WWW
April 04, 2018, 10:31:17 PM
Last edit: April 04, 2018, 10:55:37 PM by DarkStar_
 #2

I can think of a few easy ways right now like why are we even allowing newbies to post in the lending section? At least they shouldn't be able to start threads, most of them are scams and while there are definitely members stopping them like vod and others I still find it weird that everyone cares so much about spam and not enough about scams.

No thanks, I've gotten decent profit off of loans to people like max2607 who offer valid altcoin collateral that covers all of their loan. Newbies looking for a loan are usually scammers, but not always. I'd hate to lose the legitimate loan requests just because someone was stupid enough to lend to a very new account without any collateral.

There are a lot of people fighting scams too, and restricting those with negative trust from opening marketplace threads doesn't really help; they'll just switch to a new account. You don't hear about the scammers very often because scamming someone is black and white, unlike spamming/merit farming. If you're scammed; you don't trust that user. I doubt scammers will bother asking people to reconsider

LuanX3
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 505



View Profile
April 04, 2018, 10:36:24 PM
 #3

It's not that there is no one preventing scams anymore it's more of the central topic of the forum right now is fighting spam. It is just the current trend. Of course preventing scams are still top priority, but right now people are just really hyped up about the new system that has somewhat effectively curtailed the entry of spammers in terms of stopping the account farmers to easily create new accounts and level them up.

About the ICOs, well that's another thing. Usually, most of the ICOs look legit on paper or on its face, and no one can really produce evidence that would cause people to turn those away. Usually the forum fights scams if there is proof of such, but there are ICOs that turn into a huge scam when from the onset they have perfectly executed their plan.

As an investor you should really be diligent in your investing. You can't really be investing in every ICO that comes up, can you? There are a lot of ICO that seems rubbish from the start anyway, and if you carefully scan them you will clearly see that there are only a few of them that you should consider. Sometimes it is just a matter of the gullible being tricked because there were already a lot of signs that it should have been avoided but ignored and not because the forum was not vigilant.
Bardman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 515


Check Polyx Exchange!


View Profile
April 04, 2018, 11:04:38 PM
 #4

I can think of a few easy ways right now like why are we even allowing newbies to post in the lending section? At least they shouldn't be able to start threads, most of them are scams and while there are definitely members stopping them like vod and others I still find it weird that everyone cares so much about spam and not enough about scams.

No thanks, I've gotten decent profit off of loans to people like max2607 who offer valid altcoin collateral that covers all of their loan. Newbies looking for a loan are usually scammers, but not always. I'd hate to lose the legitimate loan requests just because someone was stupid enough to lend to a very new account without any collateral.

There are a lot of people fighting scams too, and restricting those with negative trust from opening marketplace threads doesn't really help; they'll just switch to a new account. You don't hear about the scammers very often because scamming someone is black and white, unlike spamming/merit farming. If you're scammed; you don't trust that user. I doubt scammers will bother asking people to reconsider

You have a point but there have to be ways to prevent more scams just like there are ways to prevent spam, I was just talking about the fact that most people seem to be concerned a little bit too much with spam or at least make it seem like they are concerned.

DarkStar_
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1958


KnowNoBorders.io


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2018, 01:44:55 AM
 #5

I can think of a few easy ways right now like why are we even allowing newbies to post in the lending section? At least they shouldn't be able to start threads, most of them are scams and while there are definitely members stopping them like vod and others I still find it weird that everyone cares so much about spam and not enough about scams.

No thanks, I've gotten decent profit off of loans to people like max2607 who offer valid altcoin collateral that covers all of their loan. Newbies looking for a loan are usually scammers, but not always. I'd hate to lose the legitimate loan requests just because someone was stupid enough to lend to a very new account without any collateral.

There are a lot of people fighting scams too, and restricting those with negative trust from opening marketplace threads doesn't really help; they'll just switch to a new account. You don't hear about the scammers very often because scamming someone is black and white, unlike spamming/merit farming. If you're scammed; you don't trust that user. I doubt scammers will bother asking people to reconsider

You have a point but there have to be ways to prevent more scams just like there are ways to prevent spam, I was just talking about the fact that most people seem to be concerned a little bit too much with spam or at least make it seem like they are concerned.

What else do you propose we do? Restricting Newbie posts in the Lending section isn't going to help much; if someone was going to give a Newbie with zero reputation and no incentive to repay a loan, chances are they'll get scammed.

Negative trust preventing people from opening new threads will just cause people to switch to alts, like I mentioned. Aside from banning ICOs on the forum entirely, there's not much to be done that would really help. There's way too many ICOs, and new ones launching every day. My guess is that most of them will be scams, but it's hard to tell as they rarely provide any actual information. People were investing in Bitconnect for crying out loud, despite them having negative trust, and obvious fake promises.

If you have any new ideas, I'm sure people would like to hear them, but complaining about the lack of scam protection without offering any good ideas or proof that there really is a lack (Meta being quiet isn't really an indicator) is a bad idea and isn't going to get you anywhere.

Bardman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 515


Check Polyx Exchange!


View Profile
April 05, 2018, 08:00:03 PM
 #6

I can think of a few easy ways right now like why are we even allowing newbies to post in the lending section? At least they shouldn't be able to start threads, most of them are scams and while there are definitely members stopping them like vod and others I still find it weird that everyone cares so much about spam and not enough about scams.

No thanks, I've gotten decent profit off of loans to people like max2607 who offer valid altcoin collateral that covers all of their loan. Newbies looking for a loan are usually scammers, but not always. I'd hate to lose the legitimate loan requests just because someone was stupid enough to lend to a very new account without any collateral.

There are a lot of people fighting scams too, and restricting those with negative trust from opening marketplace threads doesn't really help; they'll just switch to a new account. You don't hear about the scammers very often because scamming someone is black and white, unlike spamming/merit farming. If you're scammed; you don't trust that user. I doubt scammers will bother asking people to reconsider

You have a point but there have to be ways to prevent more scams just like there are ways to prevent spam, I was just talking about the fact that most people seem to be concerned a little bit too much with spam or at least make it seem like they are concerned.

What else do you propose we do? Restricting Newbie posts in the Lending section isn't going to help much; if someone was going to give a Newbie with zero reputation and no incentive to repay a loan, chances are they'll get scammed.

Negative trust preventing people from opening new threads will just cause people to switch to alts, like I mentioned. Aside from banning ICOs on the forum entirely, there's not much to be done that would really help. There's way too many ICOs, and new ones launching every day. My guess is that most of them will be scams, but it's hard to tell as they rarely provide any actual information. People were investing in Bitconnect for crying out loud, despite them having negative trust, and obvious fake promises.

If you have any new ideas, I'm sure people would like to hear them, but complaining about the lack of scam protection without offering any good ideas or proof that there really is a lack (Meta being quiet isn't really an indicator) is a bad idea and isn't going to get you anywhere.

''Negative trust preventing people from opening new threads will just cause people to switch to alts, like I mentioned.'' Never really understood this point like, banning people would only make them switch to alts so it's better to not ban anyone or prevent anyone from posting because they can avoid it?

jhenfelipe
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1190
Merit: 571


View Profile
April 05, 2018, 09:01:14 PM
 #7

If all the people who join every ICO posted here do a thorough research, we might see several "scam" or "potential scam" threads here in the forum. However, that's not the case.

Trust ratings are not moderated. There might be people who are not scammers, yet have a negative trust in their account. That being said, disabling all users with negative trust to open threads or banning them will affect a non scammer's account as well. In regards to posts in the lending section, just don't deal with newbies without collateral.

Still, the best way to avoid being scammed is to be cautious. It is every user's responsibility to check / apply security measures before dealing online in general (not only in the forum). Btw, I think everyone is concern about scams, it's just that they(we) don't post about it and that doesn't mean we don't care at all.
achow101
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862
Merit: 2650


bc1qshxkrpe4arppq89fpzm6c0tpdvx5cfkve2c8kl


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2018, 09:05:51 PM
 #8

Scams are not moderated; we leave that up to the community to police itself. That is why there is a trust and feedback system.

straX
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2018, 09:18:17 PM
 #9

If we see that have markable red or green trust that gives from default trust members dont recognize itself we do as scam,sometimes the system is using for avoiding scurrility or spam,And i dont have idea why so many users have a caution to trades and appeal here in a reason no wants doing scam for other user. Huh

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀     │      JINBI      │      T H E   G O L D E N   I C O     ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
████████████                     JOIN ICO  -  1st  J U N E                     ████████████
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄       Whitepaper     Telegram     Twitter     Reddit       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
DarkStar_
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1428
Merit: 1958


KnowNoBorders.io


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2018, 10:11:39 PM
 #10

I can think of a few easy ways right now like why are we even allowing newbies to post in the lending section? At least they shouldn't be able to start threads, most of them are scams and while there are definitely members stopping them like vod and others I still find it weird that everyone cares so much about spam and not enough about scams.

No thanks, I've gotten decent profit off of loans to people like max2607 who offer valid altcoin collateral that covers all of their loan. Newbies looking for a loan are usually scammers, but not always. I'd hate to lose the legitimate loan requests just because someone was stupid enough to lend to a very new account without any collateral.

There are a lot of people fighting scams too, and restricting those with negative trust from opening marketplace threads doesn't really help; they'll just switch to a new account. You don't hear about the scammers very often because scamming someone is black and white, unlike spamming/merit farming. If you're scammed; you don't trust that user. I doubt scammers will bother asking people to reconsider

You have a point but there have to be ways to prevent more scams just like there are ways to prevent spam, I was just talking about the fact that most people seem to be concerned a little bit too much with spam or at least make it seem like they are concerned.

What else do you propose we do? Restricting Newbie posts in the Lending section isn't going to help much; if someone was going to give a Newbie with zero reputation and no incentive to repay a loan, chances are they'll get scammed.

Negative trust preventing people from opening new threads will just cause people to switch to alts, like I mentioned. Aside from banning ICOs on the forum entirely, there's not much to be done that would really help. There's way too many ICOs, and new ones launching every day. My guess is that most of them will be scams, but it's hard to tell as they rarely provide any actual information. People were investing in Bitconnect for crying out loud, despite them having negative trust, and obvious fake promises.

If you have any new ideas, I'm sure people would like to hear them, but complaining about the lack of scam protection without offering any good ideas or proof that there really is a lack (Meta being quiet isn't really an indicator) is a bad idea and isn't going to get you anywhere.

''Negative trust preventing people from opening new threads will just cause people to switch to alts, like I mentioned.'' Never really understood this point like, banning people would only make them switch to alts so it's better to not ban anyone or prevent anyone from posting because they can avoid it?

Signature spammers are 99%+ over the people banned (not an exact figure, but I assume it's correct). If they're banned, they need to start ranking up a new account, and it would count as ban evasion, which is also bannable. This can not be said for a person with negative trust who creates a new account.

I trust most Newbies equally as someone who has negative trust, so a seller switching to a Newbie doesn't really lose too much. They just need sales, and someone who would trade with a person who has a history of scamming would likely trade with a Newbie as well.

StarKay
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 5

Excuse me please, life goes on.


View Profile
April 05, 2018, 10:14:11 PM
 #11

Scammers are mostly difficult to point out simply because they don't appear as scammers unlike spammers so it is easier to fight Spams than Scams.
Many ICOs that started well and some that are even opened by high ranking members of this forum turns out to be scam later on, that is why people have been warned to also do their own research before investing in ICOs.
And if you suspect anyone to be a scammer, you can always contact the forum moderators and inform them.
Cobalt9317
Copper Member
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 278

Offering Escrow 0.5 % fee


View Profile WWW
April 05, 2018, 11:40:29 PM
 #12

Scams are not moderated; we leave that up to the community to police itself. That is why there is a trust and feedback system.

Yeah I don't quite understand the trust system when I received a neutral feedback from KWH.

@O.P Just don't get scammed that is the essence of it there will be no scammers if there's no one bitting to false promises.
Bardman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 515


Check Polyx Exchange!


View Profile
April 06, 2018, 12:11:11 PM
 #13

Scams are not moderated; we leave that up to the community to police itself. That is why there is a trust and feedback system.

Yeah I don't quite understand the trust system when I received a neutral feedback from KWH.

@O.P Just don't get scammed that is the essence of it there will be no scammers if there's no one bitting to false promises.

I'm not going to get scammed but certainly a ton of people are, here and everywhere.

Scams are not moderated; we leave that up to the community to police itself. That is why there is a trust and feedback system.

I don't know, I always thought it would be better to just ban confirmed scammers, this argument of ''he is just going to use another account if we ban him'' makes no sense since he can use another account anyways even if he is not banned. Banning at least would make it harder for them, forcing them to actually have a new account and with the merit system it gets even harder. If mods can take the time to look into spam and ban users for it they also could look into scams, no?

achow101
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862
Merit: 2650


bc1qshxkrpe4arppq89fpzm6c0tpdvx5cfkve2c8kl


View Profile WWW
April 06, 2018, 03:10:26 PM
 #14

I don't know, I always thought it would be better to just ban confirmed scammers, this argument of ''he is just going to use another account if we ban him'' makes no sense since he can use another account anyways even if he is not banned. Banning at least would make it harder for them, forcing them to actually have a new account and with the merit system it gets even harder. If mods can take the time to look into spam and ban users for it they also could look into scams, no?
This rule has nothing to do with ''he is just going to use another account if we ban him''. Moderating scams means that the staff needs to both investigate a potential scam (which takes a lot of time), and determine what is and is not a scam. This requires a significant amount of effort and takes a lot longer to do and is more opinion based than identifying and deleting spam.

Bardman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 515


Check Polyx Exchange!


View Profile
April 06, 2018, 07:14:49 PM
 #15

I don't know, I always thought it would be better to just ban confirmed scammers, this argument of ''he is just going to use another account if we ban him'' makes no sense since he can use another account anyways even if he is not banned. Banning at least would make it harder for them, forcing them to actually have a new account and with the merit system it gets even harder. If mods can take the time to look into spam and ban users for it they also could look into scams, no?
This rule has nothing to do with ''he is just going to use another account if we ban him''. Moderating scams means that the staff needs to both investigate a potential scam (which takes a lot of time), and determine what is and is not a scam. This requires a significant amount of effort and takes a lot longer to do and is more opinion based than identifying and deleting spam.

Well, isn't that the moderator's job? Also I wouldn't ask to look into every single complaint but many scam accusations are well sustained and documented, the users who are serious about it usually provide a lot of information and it doesn't take that much time to look into it. It seems to me more like an excuse. Do moderators get paid here?

gantez
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 602
Merit: 19

Adoption Blockchain e-Commerce to World


View Profile
April 06, 2018, 08:11:24 PM
 #16


You have a point but there have to be ways to prevent more scams just like there are ways to prevent spam, I was just talking about the fact that most people seem to be concerned a little bit too much with spam or at least make it seem like they are concerned.

In such situation, using escrow is usually advised. You dont do transaction with a newbie without guiding with another person that will be a third party. If parties are contracting in such an unsecured manner, I think the losing party has acted sheepishly in my view.

achow101
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1862
Merit: 2650


bc1qshxkrpe4arppq89fpzm6c0tpdvx5cfkve2c8kl


View Profile WWW
April 06, 2018, 08:17:11 PM
 #17

Well, isn't that the moderator's job? Also I wouldn't ask to look into every single complaint but many scam accusations are well sustained and documented, the users who are serious about it usually provide a lot of information and it doesn't take that much time to look into it. It seems to me more like an excuse.
It is not the moderators' job to remove scams. The moderators' job is is enforce the forum rules. It is not against the rules to scam someone. It is against the rules to post spam.

Do moderators get paid here?
Yes. However payments are a bonus, not a salary. It is no one's full time job to be a moderator here.

Flyne d Coin Digger
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 06, 2018, 08:45:41 PM
 #18

Spam is better than scam, I believe moderators can just eradicate any spam they've see or  if it was reported so it's just small problem compares to scam that is a major problem.

Hence to this, if you think the ICO or any individual or even if just felling or or touch of sense that they cant be trusted, something's wrong, something's fishy it's better just to avoid them by not making any transactions at all.

If some pester you in message just block them or report them. (Or call captain America for help ----lol)
Bardman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 515


Check Polyx Exchange!


View Profile
April 06, 2018, 10:48:23 PM
 #19

Well, isn't that the moderator's job? Also I wouldn't ask to look into every single complaint but many scam accusations are well sustained and documented, the users who are serious about it usually provide a lot of information and it doesn't take that much time to look into it. It seems to me more like an excuse.
It is not the moderators' job to remove scams. The moderators' job is is enforce the forum rules. It is not against the rules to scam someone. It is against the rules to post spam.

Do moderators get paid here?
Yes. However payments are a bonus, not a salary. It is no one's full time job to be a moderator here.

Well then someone is obviously doing something wrong, forum rules are the problem then. If people really want to get rid of spam it would be quite easy, delete signature campaigns or enforce some rules for signature campaign managers and owners, quite easy really and when one of those 2 options is enabled, moderators will be able to focus more on scam issues. There is no need for 100 merit related posts and yet I don't see mods getting rid of them.

jonemil24
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 57

imagine me


View Profile
April 06, 2018, 11:20:25 PM
 #20

I believe that spam is also associated with scam. A scam ICO can easily make a thread and lots of new accounts to spam his/her own thread, and it will be hard to scan all of the pages to see if someone accused them as scammers. Why would you need a bumping service, if you could create an army of shitposters?

I believe my post on another thread can be a solution to these scam ICOs for creating a thread-https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2822349.msg34111110#msg34111110, I know that our own data will be at risk, but I do think that this is the best solution.

Normally, if given a choice to do something and nothing, I choose to do nothing.
But I will do something if it helps someone else to do nothing.
I'd work all night if it meant nothing got done.
- Roy Swanson
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!