What happens when BTC is too expensive to buy?

[Coinseeker]

Agree with immediately above.

Your post (Coinseeker) ignores the fact that entire infrastructures are being built around Bitcion.  Not alt currencies.

If you believe that all that infrastructure is easily reusable with other cryptocurrencies, then your point may be right, but I have a feeling a lot of it is custom to Bitcoin.

As it stands though, its going to be several years in my opinion before other crypto's are entertained.  Bitcoin needs to establish itself first.

Anyways I am still not 100% clear on why the buying spree (and therefore price increases) will continue once a bitcoin gets high enough.  

Its value must somehow be affected by its "use" as a medium of exchange eventually because right now its value is being pushed only by buying and selling.  And that isn't going to last.

I suppose it was a bad example to compare to Google stock because you can't buy partial stocks like you can buy a partial bitcoin.  

Alts are all based on the same blockchain.  Integration into existing infrastructure is easy.  And yes, with tech like Ripple and anything else smart enough to bypass the limited payment network of the blockchain, it will be a one stop shop.  But my points are not about Ripple.  It's about individual crypto. 

You can't compare crypto to stock as it relates to the masses utilizing it.  They don't care about that stuff.  They just want something simple and safe.  That does not include calculating fractions.  That might be, gee golly, really nerd cool for programmers but everyday people aren't having it because most people hate math and if it's confusing, we don't use.  Period.  I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, what I'm saying is that an equalization is coming one day where crypto will be common place.  People will understand generally how and why crypto is safe as a store of value and there will be crypto for everything from casinos to grocery stores, to banks, you name.  Crypto will be everywhere.  There will never be ONE crypto that the world uses.  Sorry its a delusion, for those that believe that.  Crypto is brilliant tech, that soon will as common as pennies you find in the street.

[windjc]

Right. Because the man power, computing power, security , community and business and application Eco-system don't matter at all. Any crypto can just support major integration into he world economy and asset class.  

Of course, first response has never shown to play much importance in adoption in any economic sector.

I mean lets just look at all the venture capital being poured into Litecoin and every other coin.

I mean they all just do what Bitcoin does, only better. Glad the rest of the world doesn't know that yet.

They (VC's) are operating on ignorance and brand name recognition.  They're looking to make a buck. Simple as that. They don't care about Bitcoin. If Litecoin becomes the popular name, they'll ditch BTC in a hurry and go with the money. Plus, miners are going to mine whatever is profitable.  Mining BTC isn't going to remain profitable for anyone not already rich and owning massive farms of mining equipment.  Yet, the desire to "print money" will never die and this will allow ANY crypto to have plenty of computational power, security, etc.  

You can tell yourself whatever you want, crypto is not exclusive to Bitcoin.  It's just one brand name out of many to come, though I wish you success on convincing the masses to buy 0.0000001 Bitcoins, when they can just buy 1 of something equally as effective.

I'm not knocking Bitcoin, it is showing us the way.  I'm just not blinded into the "one world currency" thinking and we'll just fraction out Bitcoin to infinity when new crypto is a whole lot easier to deal with.    

Right. The founder of brightcove is ignorant and just looking to make a buck.

The major difference in opinion is that you believe that crypto will just be a speculative market. I believe it will be transacted as a major world currency one day. And brand recognition is VITAL in that scenario.

Good luck with Ripple though.

[Coinseeker]

Right. The founder of brightcove is ignorant and just looking to make a buck.

The major difference in opinion is that you believe that crypto will just be a speculative market. I believe it will be transacted as a major world currency one day. And brand recognition is VITAL in that scenario.

Good luck with Ripple though.

I don't believe crypto will only be a speculative market.  Maybe you should control your butthurt and actually read what is being written.  It will be much more than speculative and Bitcoin will only be one brand out of thousands.  Yes, a brand needed to be established to turn people on to the tech but soon, that will matter less because their are certainly entities out there with more trust and honesty in their brand, than the "Bitcoin Community".  

I'll assume you agreed with the rest given you didnt address it and are really only concerned with that which makes you personally richer.  Which I'm totally fine with BTW.  Get it while you can.

[windjc]

Right. The founder of brightcove is ignorant and just looking to make a buck.

The major difference in opinion is that you believe that crypto will just be a speculative market. I believe it will be transacted as a major world currency one day. And brand recognition is VITAL in that scenario.

Good luck with Ripple though.

I don't believe crypto will only be a speculative market.  Maybe you should control your butthurt and actually read what is being written.  It will be much more than speculative and Bitcoin will only be one brand out of thousands.  Yes, a brand needed to be established to turn people on to the tech but soon, that will matter less because their are certainly entities out there with more trust and honesty in their brand, than the "Bitcoin Community".  

I'll assume you agreed with the rest given you didnt address it and are really only concerned with that which makes you personally richer.  Which is totally fine by me.  Get it while you can.

Please tell us which entities have more respect and trust and bitcoin?

Listen, IMO, you underestimate how long it will take crypto to be realized accepted and understood by the world of human masses. By the time they do, bitcoin will be so far ahead as first adopter, with so much power and money behind, per integration, that other cryptos will be secondary.

Oh, but that won't happen because btc will be too expensive (ie popular)? Ok

[bassclef]

I find this whole discussion somewhat ridiculous.

[Coinseeker]

Please tell us which entities have more respect and trust and bitcoin?

Listen, IMO, you underestimate how long it will take crypto to be realized accepted and understood by the world of human masses. By the time they do, bitcoin will be so far ahead as first adopter, with so much power and money behind, per integration, that other cryptos will be secondary.

Oh, but that won't happen because btc will be too expensive (ie popular)? Ok

Almost every brand is more trust worthy than the Bitcoin community, given this very forum is really just a gathering place for scammers and hackers.  Is that a serious question?  

I don't know how long it will take for crypto to be accepted by the masses.  Could be a year, 5 years or more.  (More would obviously mean crypto is not going to be adopted and something better has been created)  I think you overestimate the value of the name and ultimately lack vision as to where crypto as a whole is going.  There will never be just one crypto currency.  To even suggest that, is beyond delusional.  You do have the right to have your delusions, so best of luck with that.  Either way, I appreciate Bitcoin for what it has shown us and the future will be better because of its contribution to finding better currencies and ways to transact with one another.

[goxed]

Me must switch to mBTC or Satoshis ASAP. Humans are all about perception.

[Biro Bob]

I find this whole discussion somewhat ridiculous.

Agree

[BitcoinAshley]

Please, OP, I don't mean to be mean, but learn2math. Your question is retarded.
 
"Who would bother to buy only 0.2 bitcoin, and make only $20?"

The % return is all that matters in this consideration. If you put $20 into bitcoin, and BTC/USD goes up 10%, you've made $2. If you put $1000 into bitcoin and the exchange rate goes up 10%, you've made $100. Doesn't matter how many mega, whole, mini, milli, or microbitcoins you have except that this number is of course a function of the exchange rate. The only consideration is purely psychological. The actual investment scenario doesn't change.

So you could say "I feel that $2000/bitcoin is psychologically too high for most people, even though they'd be making the same % ROI whether they bought at $13/btc and saw a 1000% rise or bought at $130/BTC and saw a 1000% rise." (Hasn't happened yet but you get the point.)

OTOH, Berkshire Hathaway hasn't done any splits and it is $173,000/share. It likely won't be a problem.

What you're saying is kind of like  the opposite of taking a penny stock and saying a penny is way too cheap for it. You could combine 1000 penny stock shares so a share is $10.000 but does that make any difference to your ROI? It doesn't matter whether you have a "whole" or a "part."

[antimattercrusader]

I don't even know where to start on this thread. So I am not going to. Have a nice day.

[Elwar]

Google is also having the same problem of nobody buying their stock because it is too expensive.




Google Inc
NASDAQ: GOOG - Nov 6 6:54 PM ET


1,022.75+1.23 (0.12%)

[antimattercrusader]

Google is also having the same problem of nobody buying their stock because it is too expensive.




Google Inc
NASDAQ: GOOG - Nov 6 6:54 PM ET


1,022.75+1.23 (0.12%)

Stocks, Google in this case on November 6, do not *typically* move as much as BTC. 0.12 % - that's like 30 bitcoin-seconds of movement. It's moved more than that while I've been typing.

Would I invest $1,022.75 for a single share for a 0.12% gain when the stock has a minimal upside potential? No.

Would I invest my money for whatever amount of BTC, mBTC, Satoshis, etc - when I could win/lose 20% in a day? Perhaps. Regardless of the denomination - bitcoin has a huge potential upside. As TONS of people have already pointed out, you don't have to buy 1 bitcoin. You can buy whatever amount you want. Percentage gain is percentage gain, regardless of what label you attach (BTC, mBTC, USD, Cents, etc) to it.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Don't let the OP see Berkshire Hathaway or his head might asplode.

Berkshire Hathaway Inc.
NYSE: BRK.A - Nov 6 4:00 PM ET
172,220.00+466.00 (0.27%)

It went up over 466 just today!  That non-possible.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Would I invest $1,022.75 for a single share for a 0.12% gain when the stock has a minimal upside potential? No.

The upside (and downside) for Google is exactly the same at $1000 per share as it is at $1 per share.   At $1 per share the company would have 1000x as many shares and thus a $1000 investment would net you 1000 shares but it wouldn't net you a greater % of the company.

Are you saying you won't buy Google at $1,000 per share but if they did a 100:1 split you would buy the exact same company with the same profits, same revenue, same marketshare, same brand for $10 per share?

Still I think you missed the entire point of Elwar's sarcastic comment in that price doesn't matter.  Obviously people have bid Google up enough to triple it over the last couple years despite it having a triple (and now quadruple) digit price.

[dnaleor]

people will initially start buying Litcoin, because it is cheap. But they will realise after a while that they just need to buy fractions of a BTC, no problem

So Im bullish on litecoin for the moment

(and it is already happening)

[antimattercrusader]

Would I invest $1,022.75 for a single share for a 0.12% gain when the stock has a minimal upside potential? No.

The upside (and downside) for Google is exactly the same at $1000 per share as it is at $1 per share.   At $1 per share the company would have 1000x as many shares and thus a $1000 investment would net you 1000 shares but it wouldn't net you a greater % of the company.

Are you saying you won't buy Google at $1,000 per share but if they did a 100:1 split you would buy the exact same company with the same profits, same revenue, same marketshare, same brand for $10 per share?

Still I think you missed the entire point of Elwar's sarcastic comment in that price doesn't matter.  Obviously people have bid Google up enough to triple it over the last couple years despite it having a triple (and now quadruple) digit price.

Right, but can you buy 1/1000th of 1 share of a Google? I actually don't know, forgive my ignorance. If so, then my point in that regard is a fail.

Regarding my comment on upside/downside - my personal opinion is that at this time the upside in Google is minimal - but again that is just my speculation and the company's current size, competition, etc. Not based on current price.

[Coinseeker]

So the question is, what's more important.  Bitcoin as a speculative commodity?  Or Bitcoin as a store of value and payment medium?

If it's just for speculation, then sure, Bitcoin retains value as a brand and rarity, though even that has a limited shelf life as more crypto gains popularity. (Competition) But as anything more, it doesn't offer any significant value over any other crypto down the road.  It's just crypto.  A means to store and send value to each other.  I guess people have to decide which really matters.  Most people outside of the teeny tiny crypto community don't trade so, it's really irrelevant as it relates to mass adoption.  Because of that, I'd say arguments about stock splits, Google, etc are irrelevant and misplaced.  What matters is what people will actually use, day to day, to conduct transactions.  Buying fractions of anything to conduct day to day transactions is just silly and is bound to fail.  People are comfortable with two decimal places and trying to force them into something else, well...lets just say, good luck with that.   

[antimattercrusader]

Personally think bitcoin is more important as a payment medium.

I agree with most of what you said, however, I think by your comment regarding people refusing to use more than two decimal places, you're insinuating it will be an issue to buy a big gulp with bitcoin when it is 5,000 USD per coin. (Big Gulp then should be around 0.000264 BTC) But that is 0.26 or 0.27 mBTC, it's not too hard. Take it a step further to 2.6 uBTC or whatever. I think/hope people will just start using the smaller denominations as the price increases.

Until we hit uber bull wetdream price levels, IMO, this might even encourage adopter. Hell, I took my wife to a nice steak dinner for 0.3 BTC and it felt GOOD. lol. It seems like 0.3 of anything is a "Good deal." Of course I know the reality, and part of my view is based on benign into bitcoin since it was $5.... but the perception may be important nonetheless.

[Coinseeker]

Personally think bitcoin is more important as a payment medium.

I agree with most of what you said, however, I think by your comment regarding people refusing to use more than two decimal places, you're insinuating it will be an issue to buy a big gulp with bitcoin when it is 5,000 USD per coin. (Big Gulp then should be around 0.000264 BTC) But that is 0.26 or 0.27 mBTC, it's not too hard. Take it a step further to 2.6 uBTC or whatever. I think/hope people will just start using the smaller denominations as the price increases.

Until we hit uber bull wetdream price levels, IMO, this might even encourage adopter. Hell, I took my wife to a nice steak dinner for 0.3 BTC and it felt GOOD. lol. It seems like 0.3 of anything is a "Good deal." Of course I know the reality, and part of my view is based on benign into bitcoin since it was $5.... but the perception may be important nonetheless.

It's certainly not impossible, just not likely IMO.  The Bitcoin community would have to start doing it ASAP, as was stated above.  You have to set the standard, long before you need the standard.  Otherwise, people will just gravitate toward other coins and whatever is easiest, while you fumble over each other trying to find consensus and get it adopted through the current infrastructure.  I think they will gravitate toward other crypto regardless but if done right, Bitcoin could continue to increase its market cap by keeping more people using it in fractions, even with the continued existence of many other crypto currencies.  I just haven't seen enough "unity" on this subject over the past several months to believe it's possible for this community to pull off.

[antimattercrusader]

I'll get some pop corn and beer, it's going to be an interesting ride either way.