$15,000,000 invested in BTC. These coins now are not for sale for many years

[zeroday]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=326513.0

This is why I'm still buying @ ATH

[1715049071]

1715049071

[1715049071]

1715049071

[the_sunship]

wow - great. I just bought more while holding my breath....

[SheHadMANHands]

They're basically pumping the price up, which, at the same time, guarantees more media attention and more New interest in Bitcoin. 

Pretty genius, really.

[Lollaskates]

wow - great. I just bought more while holding my breath....

Likewise, some funds finally moved around and I pumped some more into bitcoin.

[FNG]

34,700 under management as of Nov 5th. Started with 17,800

[zeroday]

I really feel for those who tried to short today.

[rocks]

34,700 under management as of Nov 5th. Started with 17,800

It's facinating that a Wall street investment effort only has 34K coins so far, it shows how much harder it is at each stage to acquire a significant number of coins. The more they buy, the higher the price goes which limits how much they can buy.

Imagine a new BIT being started in 2016, 10K coins by then might be out of reach even for wall street money. Coins will be too spread out and widely held.

What's also facinating is this amount of BTC is nothing to the original adoptors and strong hands. To those that got in in 2011 I'm sure 10K coins is no big deal.

[2_Thumbs_Up]

34,700 under management as of Nov 5th. Started with 17,800

They need at least 55,000+ in order for the math to add up with their 15 million USD invested statement.

I wonder if they are running behind on acquiring bitcoins or if the 34,700 BTC figure has become that out of date in only a few days.

[DeathAndTaxes]

It's facinating that a Wall street investment effort only has 34K coins so far, it shows how much harder it is at each stage to acquire a significant number of coins.

This single effort.  More than one firm has been quietly buying in the background with private money for much longer, no headlines, no splashes just buying month after month off market from companies who could facilitate trades.    

Imagine a new BIT being started in 2016, 10K coins by then might be out of reach even for wall street money. Coins will be too spread out and widely held.

I think you underestimate the amount of money on wallstreet.  If they felt it was a good deal they could buy a lot more.  Think hundreds of billions of dollars, trillions if assets were liquidated or margin was used.

Bitcoin = money.  Wallstreet = money.  It is naive to think those with massive amounts of "the money of today" couldn't acquire a massive amount of "the money of tomorrow".  Most probably won't but it will simply be that they can't see the potential because Bitcoin is so far out of the box it seems impossible to them.  By the time it is obvious that Bitcoin isn't just possible it is everywhere the potential returns will be more normal .  Bitcoin can't keep doubling forever, growth will eventually slow down.

[Melbustus]

...To those that got in in 2011 I'm sure 10K coins is no big deal.

I think you mean 2009/early-2010.

[zeroday]

Imagine what will happen when bitcoin ETF is approved

[vpitcher07]

Imagine what will happen when bitcoin ETF is approved

"Prepare for liftoff". Really wish i had the money to buy now...damn college...

[ThatDGuy]

Imagine what will happen when bitcoin ETF is approved

"Prepare for liftoff". Really wish i had the money to buy now...damn college...

If you're not already doing it, switch to ramen noodles, and put a few bucks into BTC each week!

$20 in BTC per week today could look much different in 3 months, much less 3 years...

[BitchicksHusband]

34,700 under management as of Nov 5th. Started with 17,800

To those that got in in 2011 I'm sure 10K coins is no big deal.

Yeah, it's a pizza.

[Syke]

To those that got in in 2011 I'm sure 10K coins is no big deal.

Yeah, it's a pizza.

Two pizzas, actually.

[BitchicksHusband]

To those that got in in 2011 I'm sure 10K coins is no big deal.

Yeah, it's a pizza.

Two pizzas, actually.

Wow.  What a deal!

[zeroday]

"Prepare for liftoff". Really wish i had the money to buy now...damn college...

Beat the System, take a loan!   

[DeathAndTaxes]

growth will eventually slow down.

yeah, but when,

i wonder if it will be in my lifetime.

Well it would have to.  Went from $1 to $300 in three years (give or take)  For those looking to get rich I am not saying this will still happen but the "same growth" would be 300x per 36 months so $90,000 in 2017, $27M in 2020, $8B in 2023, etc.

Pretty sure that isn't happening.  Global currency supply (M0) is ~$5T that would be ~$250,000 per BTC (2013 dollars) and I can't really see much growth beyond that.

[mb300sd]

"Prepare for liftoff". Really wish i had the money to buy now...damn college...

Beat the System, take a loan!   

There was that guy who dumped in a student loan before it went up to 266... whatever happened to that guy?

[humanitee]

growth will eventually slow down.

yeah, but when,

i wonder if it will be in my lifetime.

Well it would have to.  Went from $1 to $300 in three years (give or take)  For those looking to get rich I am not saying this will still happen but the "same growth" would be 300x per 36 months so $90,000 in 2017, $27M in 2020, $8B in 2023, etc.

Pretty sure that isn't happening.   Global currency supply (M0) is ~$5T that would be ~$250,00 per BTC and I can't really see much growth beyond that.

You underestimate current central bank policies! Bernanks for everyone!

[2_Thumbs_Up]

growth will eventually slow down.

yeah, but when,

i wonder if it will be in my lifetime.

Well it would have to.  Went from $1 to $300 in three years (give or take)  For those looking to get rich I am not saying this will still happen but the "same growth" would be 300x per 36 months so $90,000 in 2017, $27M in 2020, $8B in 2023, etc.

Pretty sure that isn't happening.   Global currency supply (M0) is ~$5T that would be ~$250,00 per BTC and I can't really see much growth beyond that.

You missed a zero I think.

And I believe the "take over the world"-price is higher than that still. Bitcoin is a potential substitute to more than just the monetary base. At that point it would be a substitute to M2, precious metals and stocks (to the extent people use them to avoid inflation) as well to various degrees.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You underestimate current central bank policies! Bernanks for everyone!

True I updated it to say 2013 dollars.  If they devalue the dollar 1000x it could get to some crazy number but $1000 then wouldn't buy more than $1 today.

[DeathAndTaxes]

growth will eventually slow down.

yeah, but when,

i wonder if it will be in my lifetime.

Well it would have to.  Went from $1 to $300 in three years (give or take)  For those looking to get rich I am not saying this will still happen but the "same growth" would be 300x per 36 months so $90,000 in 2017, $27M in 2020, $8B in 2023, etc.

Pretty sure that isn't happening.   Global currency supply (M0) is ~$5T that would be ~$250,00 per BTC and I can't really see much growth beyond that.

You missed a zero I think.

And I believe the "take over the world"-price is higher than that still. Bitcoin is a potential substitute to more than just the monetary base. At that point it would be a substitute to M2, precious metals and stocks (to the extent people use them to avoid inflation) as well to various degrees.

Maybe as optimistic as I am about Bitcoin I don't buy into the "one coin to rule them all" dream.  Hell Bitcoin can't even maintain 100% of the cryptocurrency marketshare.  Still M1 would be ~$20T or quadruple that, M2 would be ~$50T or 10x that, M3 would be ~$75T or 15x that.  If you wanted to pretend precious metals lose their value as store of wealth you could boost that another ~$15T or <$5M per BTC (2013 dollars).   Even under that scenario growth has to slow down in our lifetime.  I mean no system can have 600% annualized growth for decades and decades.

[wachtwoord]

growth will eventually slow down.

yeah, but when,

i wonder if it will be in my lifetime.

Well it would have to.  Went from $1 to $300 in three years (give or take)  For those looking to get rich I am not saying this will still happen but the "same growth" would be 300x per 36 months so $90,000 in 2017, $27M in 2020, $8B in 2023, etc.

Pretty sure that isn't happening.   Global currency supply (M0) is ~$5T that would be ~$250,00 per BTC and I can't really see much growth beyond that.

You missed a zero I think.

And I believe the "take over the world"-price is higher than that still. Bitcoin is a potential substitute to more than just the monetary base. At that point it would be a substitute to M2, precious metals and stocks (to the extent people use them to avoid inflation) as well to various degrees.

Maybe as optimistic as I am about Bitcoin I don't buy into the "one coin to rule them all" dream.  Hell Bitcoin can't even maintain 100% of the cryptocurrency marketshare.  Still M1 would be ~$20T or quadruple that, M2 would be ~$50T or 10x that, M3 would be ~$75T or 15x that.  If you wanted to pretend precious metals lose their value as store of wealth you could boost that another ~$15T or <$5M per BTC (2013 dollars).   Even under that scenario growth has to slow down in our lifetime.  I mean no system can have 600% annualized growth for decades and decades.

Your talking about upper limits.

I always like your input in these things so I'm going to ask: What do you think is a realistic asymptote of the growth in 2013USD? (I know it would be completely speculative, just curious).

[2_Thumbs_Up]

growth will eventually slow down.

yeah, but when,

i wonder if it will be in my lifetime.

Well it would have to.  Went from $1 to $300 in three years (give or take)  For those looking to get rich I am not saying this will still happen but the "same growth" would be 300x per 36 months so $90,000 in 2017, $27M in 2020, $8B in 2023, etc.

Pretty sure that isn't happening.   Global currency supply (M0) is ~$5T that would be ~$250,00 per BTC and I can't really see much growth beyond that.

You missed a zero I think.

And I believe the "take over the world"-price is higher than that still. Bitcoin is a potential substitute to more than just the monetary base. At that point it would be a substitute to M2, precious metals and stocks (to the extent people use them to avoid inflation) as well to various degrees.

Maybe as optimistic as I am about Bitcoin I don't buy into the "one coin to rule them all" dream.  Hell Bitcoin can't even maintain 100% of the cryptocurrency marketshare.  Still M1 would be ~$20T or quadruple that, M2 would be ~$50T or 10x that, M3 would be ~$75T or 15x that.  If you wanted to pretend precious metals lose their value as store of wealth you could boost that another ~$15T or <$5M per BTC (2013 dollars).   Even under that scenario growth has to slow down in our lifetime.  I mean no system can have 600% annualized growth for decades and decades.

I'm pretty much with you. My realistic outlook, while also being very optimistic, is still far lower than that as well. But it's the premise of replacing M0 I find extremely unlikely. I'm just saying that if we take that premise as a given, I believe a few trillions of precios metals market share, other inflation protection investments and definitely some trillions of the broader money supplies are a given as well. So I would put the upper limit of that scenario a bit higher than you did, unlikely as the scenario may be.

[tonto]

Imagine what will happen when bitcoin ETF is approved

"Prepare for liftoff". Really wish i had the money to buy now...damn college...

If you're not already doing it, switch to ramen noodles, and put a few bucks into BTC each week!

$20 in BTC per week today could look much different in 3 months, much less 3 years...

This.  Two paychecks ago I stopped contributing to my 401k (I wasn't really making shit anyway) and contribute that money to buying bitcoins.  It's only about $100 per paycheck (all I can afford with this economy), and told my wife that if I get nervous after a year I'd go back to my 401k.  But I have a feeling I made the right decision

[600watt]

It's facinating that a Wall street investment effort only has 34K coins so far, it shows how much harder it is at each stage to acquire a significant number of coins.

This single effort.  More than one firm has been quietly buying in the background with private money for much longer, no headlines, no splashes just buying month after month off market from companies who could facilitate trades.    




Bitcoin = money.  Wallstreet = money.  It is naive to think those with massive amounts of "the money of today" couldn't acquire a massive amount of "the money of tomorrow".  Most probably won't but it will simply be that they can't see the potential because Bitcoin is so far out of the box it seems impossible to them.  By the time it is obvious that Bitcoin isn't just possible it is everywhere the potential returns will be more normal .  Bitcoin can't keep doubling forever, growth will eventually slow down.

+1
the superwealthy 1% elite will try to stay where they are. sooner or later they must engage heavily in bitcoin. that is our chance to aquire parts of their wealth. everyone hold, hold, hold and then make 'em pay biiiiiiiiiiig.

[crazy_rabbit]

Not for sale for many years assumes of course that they aren't going to try using those coins to crush the market and buy up cheap again.

Fortunately the markets are getting deep enough that this is getting harder and harder to do, but you never know.

[zeroday]

Bought @ATH just before posting this thread yesterday. Now it's gained 10%  

Is anyone still bearish today?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Not for sale for many years assumes of course that they aren't going to try using those coins to crush the market and buy up cheap again.

Fortunately the markets are getting deep enough that this is getting harder and harder to do, but you never know.

Well it is a trust.  The operator is obligated to hold the coins for those who have shares in the trust.  The operator using the coins to play super whale day trader would be violating the law and give the shareholders 15 million reasons to ensure he is sued into the poor house.  Remember this is Pirate's HYIP Ponzi this is a trust eligible only to sophisticated investors with a certain net worth. 

[Carlton Banks]

Not for sale for many years assumes of course that they aren't going to try using those coins to crush the market and buy up cheap again.

Fortunately the markets are getting deep enough that this is getting harder and harder to do, but you never know.

Well it is a trust.  The operator is obligated to hold the coins for those who have shares in the trust.  The operator using the coins to play super whale day trader would be violating the law and give the shareholders 15 million reasons to ensure he is sued into the poor house.  Remember this is Pirate's HYIP Ponzi this is a trust eligible only to sophisticated investors with a certain net worth. 

Lol, like with Madoff or Allen Stanford? I guess their schemes weren't so publicly known beforehand, but as we've seen with the majority of other Bitcoin "trusts", you can't prove much one way or another with an "o noes we bin haxxed" story. Has the safe storage of money ever been so motivated by being knowledgeable and competent?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Not for sale for many years assumes of course that they aren't going to try using those coins to crush the market and buy up cheap again.

Fortunately the markets are getting deep enough that this is getting harder and harder to do, but you never know.

Well it is a trust.  The operator is obligated to hold the coins for those who have shares in the trust.  The operator using the coins to play super whale day trader would be violating the law and give the shareholders 15 million reasons to ensure he is sued into the poor house.  Remember this is Pirate's HYIP Ponzi this is a trust eligible only to sophisticated investors with a certain net worth. 

Lol, like with Madoff or Allen Stanford? I guess their schemes weren't so publicly known beforehand, but as we've seen with the majority of other Bitcoin "trusts", you can't prove much one way or another with an "o noes we bin haxxed" story. Has the safe storage of money ever been so motivated by being knowledgeable and competent?

Meh SecondMarket is pretty well established and has a good rep.  For every Madoff there are 10,000 funds which follow the rules.  If Second Market "loses" the coins they are getting sued.  This isn't some anonymous guy living in his mom's basement with no assets that only has to worry about getting doxxed or having unpaid pizzas show up as his door. 

[Carlton Banks]

Not for sale for many years assumes of course that they aren't going to try using those coins to crush the market and buy up cheap again.

Fortunately the markets are getting deep enough that this is getting harder and harder to do, but you never know.

Well it is a trust.  The operator is obligated to hold the coins for those who have shares in the trust.  The operator using the coins to play super whale day trader would be violating the law and give the shareholders 15 million reasons to ensure he is sued into the poor house.  Remember this is Pirate's HYIP Ponzi this is a trust eligible only to sophisticated investors with a certain net worth.  

Lol, like with Madoff or Allen Stanford? I guess their schemes weren't so publicly known beforehand, but as we've seen with the majority of other Bitcoin "trusts", you can't prove much one way or another with an "o noes we bin haxxed" story. Has the safe storage of money ever been so motivated by being knowledgeable and competent?

Meh SecondMarket is pretty well established and has a good rep.  For every Madoff there are 10,000 funds which follow the rules.  If Second Market "loses" the coins they are getting sued.  This isn't some anonymous guy living in his mom's basement with no assets that only has to worry about getting doxxed or having unpaid pizzas show up as his door.  

Well, Madoff and Stanford arguably had far better reputations. And if SecondMarket were to genuinely have any funds stolen, I doubt the investors would take to much comfort from hearing that any remaining assets can't cover the liabilities, which with the design and exchange rate trajectory of Bitcoin, would definitely be tough. There would literally be no recourse, at least not until "Coin Covenant" protections could or suchlike preventative measures can be taken.

I don't think these trust investors appreciate the risks of failing to understand the risks that they're paying the trusts to understand on their behalf! There are just too many assumptions about making Bitcoin work like any other asset class, and if I were a big fish financial insider with a lot to loose from the Bitcoin "problem", there's a big potential to combine a bit of public loss of confidence with personal control of the BTC supply.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yeah once again for every Madoff there are 10,000 other fund managers who just do a job and collect a cut off every dollar under management.  Anything can happen but then again a lot of "smart" techy people have lots utterly staggering fortunes of Bitcoins they directly controlled so for someone not tech centered the idea of having it managed has appeal.

Then again the topic was about the fund being used to day trade the market.  It would seem pretty easy to ensure that doesn't happen.  Not sure what kind of audits SecondMarket is planning on using but the nice thing about Bitcoins you can't move them and then move them back in time for the audit without leaving a record. In time I am sure an entire set of best practices for running and auditing a Bitcoin trust will emerge.

[600watt]

mr silbert did something great for bitcoin and deserves appreciation. bitcoin will become more profitable for 2ndmarket than fb ever was. 53 000 hungry customers. expect a lot of 'em diving right into it !

edit: hungry

[Xer0]

If you're not already doing it, switch to ramen noodles, and put a few bucks into BTC each week!

Ramen saves you money? here they are really expensive, at least 0.50€. but you get a full 500g pack of fake-Miracoli for 35ct