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Question: Do you believe the US will lose its AAA rating?
Definitely - 41 (31.8%)
Pretty Sure - 39 (30.2%)
Absolutely Not - 26 (20.2%)
May Need a Tow Truck - 4 (3.1%)
This is the best poll I've ever participated in. - 19 (14.7%)
Total Voters: 129

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Author Topic: The $1 Billion Armageddon Trade  (Read 3908 times)
CurbsideProphet
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July 30, 2011, 09:03:57 PM
 #21

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though?  Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative.  Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?
'Fractional Reserve Banking' isn't synonymous with 'Federal Reserve Banking', although it abbreviates the same.
The 'state', be it federal or not, is quite able to do the fractional banking all by herself and earn a lot of money in the process, which can be used for useful public works, instead of building up debts with private banks.
In fact, the American Constitution gives 'the congress' (i.e. NOT the private Federal Reserve) the sole right to create money.

Okay now we're getting somewhere.  Let me first just say, if you look at Oldminer's four step process, the last step (#4) is fractional-reserve banking.  

The Federal Reserve is for lack of a better word, a cartel of banks.  I believe what you are advocating (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take away the power from the Fed and return it to Congress?  Let me know if I'm hot or cold here.  I'm all for more controls over the Fed, as I mentioned in my previous post, the system is in disarray and needs to be repaired.  I just don't necessarily believe we need to scrub the whole model and start over.

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CurbsideProphet
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July 30, 2011, 09:06:55 PM
 #22


Yes, what you've described is fractional-reserve banking.  I'm aware of how the system works.  I'm asking you what is your proposal for an alternative.  Even Islamic banking, which prohibits profit from interest, has aspects of fractional-reserve banking.  So I ask again, can you provide an example of a current successful economy/country that does not employ fractional-reserve banking?

Please don't construe this is an attack.  To my knowledge there are none but I recognize the fact that I can (and often times am) wrong.  What I see is a system that has been corrupted and needs to be repaired.  I don't necessarily see the need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Sorry, I took a while with my last post which wasn't in response to your post Smiley

However, in response to your question - I don't know of one. To find one you would need to find a (successful) economic system that isnt tainted by the UK banking monopolists. And last time I looked, there wasn't a corner of the globe thats free of their tentacles. In other words, if there was a viable alternative its since been 'colonised' & corrupted.

Ah, sorry I thought you were responding to me.

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July 30, 2011, 09:42:21 PM
 #23

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though?  Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative.  Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?

The problem is not fractional reserve. Fractional reserve is fine. The problem is central banking. You dont need to have a money monopolly regulated by a central bank, people can freely choose the money they want.
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July 30, 2011, 10:21:15 PM
 #24


I believe what you are advocating (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take away the power from the Fed and return it to Congress?  

Lincoln and JFK tried this and both were assassinated as a direct result. Though I do believe their models are the only one's that are actually workable.

If you like my post please feel free to give me some positive rep https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=18639
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July 30, 2011, 11:00:51 PM
 #25

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though?  Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative.  Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?

The problem is not fractional reserve. Fractional reserve is fine. The problem is central banking. You dont need to have a money monopolly regulated by a central bank, people can freely choose the money they want.


While I agree with your sentiments, I don't think this model can apply to US unless a constitutional amendment is passed.
Quote from: United States Constitution Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 5
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Only Congress has the power to regulate the money supply, and Congress so far has only issued one type of currency: the USD. So the people is faced with a Hobson's choice. (Technically the American Gold Eagle is also legal tender but the $5 coin is actually worth $150...)

I fully support the idea of private currency though. The first time I used an ATM in Hong Kong 4 different shades of plastic bills popped out. I thought I was scammed with monopoly money at first. As it turns out each bank issue their own set of notes. All the private banks work together to regulate the HongKong dollar. Now that's free market at work. Since none of the locals carry around counterfeit bill detectors I assume they have no problem identifying and trusting 20+ different types of bills. None of the HK banks got a bail out either.
DrKennethNoisewater
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July 31, 2011, 12:41:22 AM
 #26


I believe what you are advocating (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take away the power from the Fed and return it to Congress?  

Lincoln and JFK tried this and both were assassinated as a direct result. Though I do believe their models are the only one's that are actually workable.

Agreed.

Watch as the USD slowly gets hammered.

Keep in mind, while you're not looking, you're 8oz bottle of ketchup that you buy every month has now become a 6oz bottle @ the same price...........

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July 31, 2011, 03:11:19 AM
 #27

Very interesting discussion we have going on here. I'm opted to stay out of it because my comment(s) may not add value. Thank you kindly to all the posters so far. Keep up the discussion.
airdata
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July 31, 2011, 04:49:09 AM
 #28

I hope they placed the bet or however they wish to call it in USD.  That would just be hilarious.
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July 31, 2011, 05:02:48 AM
 #29

Any one here care to guess who made such a bet? ...or the source of the inside information?
hugolp
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July 31, 2011, 06:03:18 AM
 #30


I believe what you are advocating (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take away the power from the Fed and return it to Congress?  

Lincoln and JFK tried this and both were assassinated as a direct result. Though I do believe their models are the only one's that are actually workable.

If we have to be historically accurate thats false.

JFK passed a bill to emit silver certificates, he did not pass a bill allowing congress to print as much as they want to, and it is quite unclear the silver certificates was the reason why he was assesinated. I guess it could be, there are several theories as to why he was killed.

Lincoln did print "all" the dollars he wanted, but the dollar hyperinflated and lost 50$% of its value in 2 or 4 years (dont remember exactly right now). If it were not because congress decided to stop printing which returned confidence in the currency, the dollar would have completely collapsed. Again, there are several theories as to why Lincoln was assesinated but saying its because of the greenbacks its quite a strecth. It does not make too much sense.
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July 31, 2011, 06:44:03 AM
 #31


Keep in mind, while you're not looking, you're 8oz bottle of ketchup that you buy every month has now become a 6oz bottle @ the same price...........



Exactly , they know they can not raise prices (duh scare the people) so they lower the quantity! Mind boggling to say the least.

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July 31, 2011, 07:11:37 AM
 #32


Keep in mind, while you're not looking, you're 8oz bottle of ketchup that you buy every month has now become a 6oz bottle @ the same price...........



Exactly , they know they can not raise prices (duh scare the people) so they lower the quantity! Mind boggling to say the least.

Wait till the day they start selling individual .25oz packets of ketchup at todays 8oz 6oz prices. And the package will cost more to make than the ketchup inside.

Honey, what do you want me to get at Walmart since I'm going there to this cavity filled? Have you seen my ObamaCare card?

One package of generic ketchup, two small eggs, 4 slices of their day old bread, and 3oz of 1% milk. Here's the online coupon for the ketchup and the container to put the milk in. Make sure you don't buy anything else. Remember, we're on a budget. Check the bicycle basket glove box for your card. I think I saw it there when I went dumpster diving an hour ago. While you're gone, I'll get the landlord to fix the leak in this tent. And remember to not make any eye contact with Homeland Security.

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DrKennethNoisewater
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July 31, 2011, 09:50:26 PM
 #33

I find it interesting that the whole time I've been involved with Bitcoin, mining of Bitcoin, and lurking (sometimes posting) on this forum, that no one has ever mentioned the book "Daemon" and it's sequel "Freedom TM"

There are some very cool parallels...........

Any1? Bueller?

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July 31, 2011, 10:53:34 PM
 #34

I find it interesting that the whole time I've been involved with Bitcoin, mining of Bitcoin, and lurking (sometimes posting) on this forum, that no one has ever mentioned the book "Daemon" and it's sequel "Freedom TM"

There are some very cool parallels...........

Any1? Bueller?



From Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Daemon-Daniel-Suarez/dp/0525951113

Robin Cook on Daemon

Doctor and author Robin Cook is widely credited with introducing the word "medical" to the thriller genre. Thirty-one years after the publication of his breakthrough novel, Coma, he continues to dominate the category he created, including his most recent bestseller, Foreign Body, which explores a growing trend of medical tourism--first-world citizens traveling to third-world countries for 21st-century surgery.

Daemon is an ambitious novel, which sets out not only to entertain, which it surely does, but also to challenge the reader to consider social issues as broad as the implications of living in a technologically advanced world and whether democracy can survive in such a world.

The storyline portrays one possible world consequent to the development of the technological innovations that we currently live with and the reality that the author, Suarez, imagines will evolve, and it is chilling and tense (on www.thedaemon.com the reader can find evidence that the seemingly incredible advances Suarez proposes could in fact become real). Daemon is filled with multiple scenes involving power displays by the Daemon's allies resulting in complete loss of control by its enemies, violence with new and innovative weaponry, explosions, car crashes, blood, guts, and limbs-cut-off galore.

As far as computer complexity, Daemon will satisfy any computer geek's thirst. I was thankful for Pete Sebeck, the detective in the book whose average-person understanding of computers necessitates an occasional explanation about what is going on. I came away from the novel with a new understanding, respect, and fear of computer capability.

In the end, Suarez invites the reader to enter the "second age of reason," to think about where recent and imminent advances in computer technology are taking us and whether we want to go there. For me, it is this "thinking" aspect of the novel which makes it a particularly fun, satisfying, and significant read.



DrKennethNoisewater
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August 01, 2011, 01:29:53 AM
 #35

And, A Darknet economy evolves in which "DarkNetCredits" quickly out pace the USD...........
kloinko1n
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August 01, 2011, 11:12:22 AM
 #36

America may have won the war of Independence but were quickly invaded again by stealth via the Fed money system that has its roots in the UK banking system. As a result, the US is simply a 'corporation' of the UK and most Americans dont even realise it. Quite ingenious really.

What is the alternative though?  Yes, the spending has gotten out of hand but if you're really going to attack the root of the system, there needs to be a viable alternative.  Can you name a single successful economy that doesn't use fractional reserve banking?
'Fractional Reserve Banking' isn't synonymous with 'Federal Reserve Banking', although it abbreviates the same.
The 'state', be it federal or not, is quite able to do the fractional banking all by herself and earn a lot of money in the process, which can be used for useful public works, instead of building up debts with private banks.
In fact, the American Constitution gives 'the congress' (i.e. NOT the private Federal Reserve) the sole right to create money.

Okay now we're getting somewhere.  Let me first just say, if you look at Oldminer's four step process, the last step (#4) is fractional-reserve banking.  

The Federal Reserve is for lack of a better word, a cartel of banks.  I believe what you are advocating (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take away the power from the Fed and return it to Congress?  Let me know if I'm hot or cold here.  I'm all for more controls over the Fed, as I mentioned in my previous post, the system is in disarray and needs to be repaired.  I just don't necessarily believe we need to scrub the whole model and start over.
Yes, of course men should take away the power from the Fed and at least (re?)turn it to congress.
The constitution of the USA only grants the right of creating money to the congress, and not to a bunch of banksters whose only goal is to make money out of states, be it through the right of printing money or through the proceeds of war.

In my opinion 'we' should 'scrub the whole model' and return to a sane model where by default states don't borrow money, nor print unlimited amounts of it. 'Printing' is allowed, but only to accommodate the production of services and goods and a proper flow of money.
Currencies should be backed by valuable items, like for instance silver, gold, platinum or whatever deemed valuable enough. Uranium?
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August 01, 2011, 05:47:42 PM
 #37

I don't think "returning" to the constitution as it pertains to Congress "coining money and regulating the value thereof" is a viable solution. It failed to stop the rise of central banking when it was first tried. What makes you think things will be any different this time? I think the whole concept of monopoly money should be relegated to the dustbin of history entirely.

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August 01, 2011, 06:30:44 PM
 #38

Lincoln and JFK tried this and both were assassinated as a direct result. Though I do believe their models are the only one's that are actually workable.

Clearly the SS risks/ed their lives to protect these, other presidents, their families, and diplomats. But isn't it odd that the only responsibilities of the Secret Service are to protect politicians and the physical currency? As if the mission were to keep these two institutions in line.

"Psst... Mr. President, just a reminder, so we're clear about a few things..."

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kloinko1n
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August 01, 2011, 09:32:06 PM
 #39

I don't think "returning" to the constitution as it pertains to Congress "coining money and regulating the value thereof" is a viable solution. It failed to stop the rise of central banking when it was first tried. What makes you think things will be any different this time? I think the whole concept of monopoly money should be relegated to the dustbin of history entirely.
I think what failed to stop the central banking was congress itself by letting themselves be corrupted by the banks to vote on the deal on x-mas eve when majority is unavailable for voting.
And then the president signing the federal reserve law.
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August 01, 2011, 11:50:17 PM
 #40


Can someone please explain the gist of a futures trade. Some dude predicts the AAA rating will go down, which will force the US govt to pay higher rates (or not at all?)... then...the trader promised what?

Greenlandic tupilak. Hand carved, traditional cursed bone figures. Sorry, polar bear, walrus and human remains not available for export.
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