wmcorless (OP)
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paccoin
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January 25, 2018, 10:14:19 PM |
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The question raised by @MOProgress is a very nice question. So if you say 1000:1 it mean we will have only 3.4billion then for us to get 170million market cap it means the price of PAC will be 0.05$ right? But what is the possibility that the price will start from 0.05$?
These questions are for the paccoin cash redemption site. but to try to help you understand what is going on, imagine a stock split. When the price of stock goes up too high like maybe amazons stock for example that is almost 1400 per share. They could do a split and make it two shares at 700. The idea is the value cuts in half, but you get two shares instead of 1, so the cash value is the same. This I think is what saul is offering, but the opposite way. instead of taking a high priced stock and cutting it in half, he is taking a low priced coin and reducing the quantity to make the value worth more. so in theory the value would be the same, just the number of coins would be divided by 1000. that's the theory anyway. hope that helps. |
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GimoIng
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January 25, 2018, 10:15:19 PM |
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how do i mine this coin ?
Where can I buy it? which exchange website ?
How can I download wallet? i need link.
I suggest you to read some pages of this thread before buying any coin  |
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wmcorless (OP)
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paccoin
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January 25, 2018, 10:16:24 PM |
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Its the same thing. It takes a while to download the blockchain. |
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erhanstein
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January 25, 2018, 10:21:36 PM |
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Their file is big, it could be taking a while to download. I have the very basic files up so the download should be quick. paccoin.net is it official website ? or paccoinofficial.com ? |
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GimoIng
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January 25, 2018, 10:22:27 PM |
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GimoIng
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January 25, 2018, 10:30:30 PM |
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Each masternode requires 500 million old PACcoins. 500m x $0.00007=$350 000  Are you serious!? You may redeem multiple masternodes if you wish  This coin was much more cheaper some weeks ago, it made 10000x since october 2017, now a masternode is very expensive Anyway is 35 000$ |
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wmcorless (OP)
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paccoin
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January 25, 2018, 10:53:26 PM |
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Bill, I on personal experience will help people understand what is best.
When POS coins come, confirmed by the network have more than 600 confirmations at one point become orphans, and this has been going on for a long time.
My opinion is that the code is specially registered so that coins are received by someone one and not by investors. This coin will not give you the opportunity to earn interest on POS because its code is broken and earns only those under whom the code is written.
I'm not talking about investing in a few million, I have more than 11 milliards and even I get only orphans.
So the reason this happened is you were staking on a fork. To understand what a fork is think of a tree. It starts as one trunk, then branches go off from the trunk. This is what a fork is. If you mine coins and your coins are on a fork, they will eventually disappear as orphans because the the wallet works its way back to the trunk. The problem is that there is a "patch" that eliminates this problem as the person says. However the reality this "patch" makes this problem worse for honest wallets. The way blockchains are supposed to work, is they start with a genesis block and every new block is added is connected to the previous one. The block height starts at 1 then 2, and so on. Every new block that is generated by Proof of Work is either accepted by the network, or it is rejected. So when two computers find a block, they submit it to the network. The network evaluates the two blocks and decides which one is correct and which one should be rejected. When a block is rejected it is orphaned. This is how even bitcoin works. However with paccoin you have the added Proof of Stake block. Miners make Proof of Work blocks (PoW), and holders of the coin make proof of Stake (PoS) blocks. Now if a miner sumbits a Proof of Work Block at a block height of 254328 for example and a Stake holder produces a Proof of Stake block at the same height of 254328, the network will decide which block is correct. With Proof of Work on Bitcoin, it is the fastest hash an the longest chain the prevails, with Proof of Stake it is determined by Coin Age. This is important. If you own a coin that has not staked and is 30 days old, and another person owns a coin that is 60 days old, if they both try to stake it will be the one with the 60 days that wins. When a proof of stake block comes through the difficulty to mine drops. Because the network's security model is not based on Proof of Work like bitcoin, you never have to worry about buying more and more powerful asic miners. Now the patch I referred to before that breakcrypto strongly endorses because it doesn't cause his mined blocks to get orphaned prevents the system above from working. What it does is it accepts both blocks, at the same height. that means there are two or more blocks with the same blockheight in his block chain. that means a new block can start growing on either one, therefore causing forks. Although there is no rewind issue for him, he may feel good that his blocks are not orphaning, the problem is it causes the rest of us to have wallets dropping out of sync. So when your wallet is in sync and suddenly it drops out of sync by 420 blocks now you know why. This did not happen until he started using his modified version. |
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GimoIng
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January 25, 2018, 10:56:36 PM |
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hey man, per your experience, have you heard of exchange perform this kind of "coin redemption" before? I'm digging through the web, can't find any event similar like this one
Apparently Nova Exchange offered this service before. The idea is that if a developer has a new coin and wants to end his old coin, he asks the exchange to perform the swap. As the swap goes the old coin is ended, and the new coin proceeds. The difference here is the old coin Paccoin is not going to end because I'm not letting that happen. I was told that Paccoin wasn't going to die, but when I go to the paccoin redemption site, it appears that they want to go from old pac to new pac. This is troubling because that is not what Saul told me. If Saul wants to simply offer a RCO a redemption coin offering as he calls it, so that people buy paccoin and use it to buy another altcoin such as paccoin cash, thats fine by me. But I didn't agree to him using the Paccoin name for a new coin. If he wants to call it paccoin cash and use the name $PAC again I have no problem with this. I just cant have him calling his new coin paccoin. Let me understand...how can Paccoin survive the swap if Cryptopia will do it for us and Yobit does not allow any withdraw? |
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Aktarus
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January 25, 2018, 11:20:06 PM |
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wmcorless (OP)
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January 25, 2018, 11:20:54 PM |
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The question I have hearing a lot lately is their coins are not staking, or that they do, and then get orphaned.
First point, Proof of Stake takes 30 days to occur .
Second Point an older coin stakes before a newer coin.
Lets say someone hasn't used their paccoin wallet in a long time, like a year.
They turn on their wallet, and it starts staking like crazy. Its because their coins have a greater coin age, they stake first.
Now you may see your wallet having nothing but orphans. This may be concerning to you, but its normal. If a coin orphans, it simply will try to stake again. Once it stakes it will take another 30 days before it will stake again.
Another way of looking at it is total deposits. You might deposit a million paccoins in your wallet on the first of the month. For all intents and purposes, I call this a coin, although it is a million coins. After 30 days you will receive a proof of stake based on the million coins. so it could be around 100,000 coins or so. and then the coin age is destroyed and you now have 1.1 million coins starting all over. After another month you'll receive about 110,000 coins and so on.
The concept of decentralization is that the network decides who gets the block reward and who doesn't. No one including me has any say on how the proof of stake reward is given.
So if you see your proof of stake orphan, don't worry, it will attempt to stake again.
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wmcorless (OP)
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January 25, 2018, 11:23:22 PM |
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If you guys keep this up, theres going to be a lawsuit, quit pretending you are paccoin. |
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Aktarus
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January 25, 2018, 11:31:19 PM |
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If you guys keep this up, theres going to be a lawsuit, quit pretending you are paccoin. Lawsuit while you said a few month ago: I've been talking with the new developers. I believe they have some great ideas, and can improve the value of the coin. So I'm going to Pass the Baton if you will and let them take the coin over. I think they can do a great job.
Bill
You will lose. You have 2 options: - You leave the project by supporting the new team, and then you will stay in the history as a hero, a pioneer - You keep raging and trying to make mess, then you will finish as a rubish in the bin of history. |
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breakcrypto
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January 25, 2018, 11:41:50 PM |
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Bill, I on personal experience will help people understand what is best.
When POS coins come, confirmed by the network have more than 600 confirmations at one point become orphans, and this has been going on for a long time.
My opinion is that the code is specially registered so that coins are received by someone one and not by investors. This coin will not give you the opportunity to earn interest on POS because its code is broken and earns only those under whom the code is written.
I'm not talking about investing in a few million, I have more than 11 milliards and even I get only orphans.
So the reason this happened is you were staking on a fork. To understand what a fork is think of a tree. It starts as one trunk, then branches go off from the trunk. This is what a fork is. If you mine coins and your coins are on a fork, they will eventually disappear as orphans because the the wallet works its way back to the trunk. The problem is that there is a "patch" that eliminates this problem as the person says. However the reality this "patch" makes this problem worse for honest wallets. The way blockchains are supposed to work, is they start with a genesis block and every new block is added is connected to the previous one. The block height starts at 1 then 2, and so on. Every new block that is generated by Proof of Work is either accepted by the network, or it is rejected. So when two computers find a block, they submit it to the network. The network evaluates the two blocks and decides which one is correct and which one should be rejected. When a block is rejected it is orphaned. This is how even bitcoin works. However with paccoin you have the added Proof of Stake block. Miners make Proof of Work blocks (PoW), and holders of the coin make proof of Stake (PoS) blocks. Now if a miner sumbits a Proof of Work Block at a block height of 254328 for example and a Stake holder produces a Proof of Stake block at the same height of 254328, the network will decide which block is correct. With Proof of Work on Bitcoin, it is the fastest hash an the longest chain the prevails, with Proof of Stake it is determined by Coin Age. This is important. If you own a coin that has not staked and is 30 days old, and another person owns a coin that is 60 days old, if they both try to stake it will be the one with the 60 days that wins. When a proof of stake block comes through the difficulty to mine drops. Because the network's security model is not based on Proof of Work like bitcoin, you never have to worry about buying more and more powerful asic miners. Now the patch I referred to before that breakcrypto strongly endorses because it doesn't cause his mined blocks to get orphaned prevents the system above from working. What it does is it accepts both blocks, at the same height. that means there are two or more blocks with the same blockheight in his block chain. that means a new block can start growing on either one, therefore causing forks. Although there is no rewind issue for him, he may feel good that his blocks are not orphaning, the problem is it causes the rest of us to have wallets dropping out of sync. So when your wallet is in sync and suddenly it drops out of sync by 420 blocks now you know why. This did not happen until he started using his modified version. First, the patch very clearly only accepts blocks of a height greater than the last recorded height, there can't be two blocks of the same height. I know you dislike accepting reality, but: if (pindexNew->bnChainTrust > bnBestChainTrust && pindexNew->nHeight > nBestHeight)
For anyone who doesn't know C++ syntax, that says: does this block have a higher trust score AND does this new block have a height that is higher than the previous blocks I've seen? If not, it skips accepting that block on the chain. If the height is height, the block is accepted -- regardless of whether it's a PoS or PoW block. That said, if two blocks came in with the same height, the PoS block would win, and the PoW block would be discarded due to the way trust is settled in paccoin. Again, there wouldn't be two blocks added to the chain -- one would be accepted by the consensus of the nodes and the other would fail. The code speaks for itself, it's perfectly clear -- if you can't read it, it just proves my point all the more. And it doesn't cause anyone to fall out of sync if the patch were deployed but it isn't so your chain is still broken. Second, why does the patch actually work? The patch works because it short circuits the broken rewind code in paccoin. Paccoin was an ancient fork of peercoin but hasn't been updated in many years. Peercoin does chain rewinds in an atomic fashion and a stable manner (there have been numerous patches to the rewind logic over the years to address problems); however, paccoin is missing the fast majority of those patches. Transactions are supposed to be picked from the longer fork prior to the rewind and moved to the shorter fork, but it's done in a non-atomic fashion and multi-block forks that hit a PoW block appear to have an issue because they're forward looping instead of starting backwards. I'll be completely honest, as I have been and as I've stated on the github patch trying to help out Bill, I haven't had time to completely dig through that and still haven't / have no interest at this point. Third, if you read the peercoin whitepaper it explains exactly the type of issues that can arise when someone has too much stake -- that's exactly what's happening to the paccoin network. See https://peercoin.net/assets/paper/peercoin-paper.pdf . First the cost of controlling significant stake might be higher than the cost
of acquiring significant mining power, thus raising the cost of attack for such powerful
entities.
Unlike peercoin, in paccoin there are some massive wallets staking ancient blocks. One of the disadvantages of using total consumed coin age to determine main chain is
that it lowers the cost of attack on the entire block chain of history.
This. breakcrypto |
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wmcorless (OP)
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paccoin
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January 25, 2018, 11:47:55 PM |
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You will lose.
You have 2 options:
- You leave the project by supporting the new team, and then you will stay in the history as a hero, a pioneer
- You keep raging and trying to make mess, then you will finish as a rubish in the bin of history.
ok lawsuit it is |
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mybuddylucifer
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January 25, 2018, 11:54:00 PM |
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hey man, per your experience, have you heard of exchange perform this kind of "coin redemption" before? I'm digging through the web, can't find any event similar like this one
Apparently Nova Exchange offered this service before. The idea is that if a developer has a new coin and wants to end his old coin, he asks the exchange to perform the swap. As the swap goes the old coin is ended, and the new coin proceeds. The difference here is the old coin Paccoin is not going to end because I'm not letting that happen. I was told that Paccoin wasn't going to die, but when I go to the paccoin redemption site, it appears that they want to go from old pac to new pac. This is troubling because that is not what Saul told me. If Saul wants to simply offer a RCO a redemption coin offering as he calls it, so that people buy paccoin and use it to buy another altcoin such as paccoin cash, thats fine by me. But I didn't agree to him using the Paccoin name for a new coin. If he wants to call it paccoin cash and use the name $PAC again I have no problem with this. I just cant have him calling his new coin paccoin. You see, that's what troubles me, by the current announcement it means that anyone could talk to the exchange and get them to commit swap. Lets says I recompile pac with different logo, go to exchange and tell them Im the dev of prl, ask them to do swap the current prl to the pseudo pac |
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Aktarus
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January 26, 2018, 12:26:08 AM |
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Bill, I on personal experience will help people understand what is best.
When POS coins come, confirmed by the network have more than 600 confirmations at one point become orphans, and this has been going on for a long time.
My opinion is that the code is specially registered so that coins are received by someone one and not by investors. This coin will not give you the opportunity to earn interest on POS because its code is broken and earns only those under whom the code is written.
I'm not talking about investing in a few million, I have more than 11 milliards and even I get only orphans.
So the reason this happened is you were staking on a fork. To understand what a fork is think of a tree. It starts as one trunk, then branches go off from the trunk. This is what a fork is. If you mine coins and your coins are on a fork, they will eventually disappear as orphans because the the wallet works its way back to the trunk. The problem is that there is a "patch" that eliminates this problem as the person says. However the reality this "patch" makes this problem worse for honest wallets. The way blockchains are supposed to work, is they start with a genesis block and every new block is added is connected to the previous one. The block height starts at 1 then 2, and so on. Every new block that is generated by Proof of Work is either accepted by the network, or it is rejected. So when two computers find a block, they submit it to the network. The network evaluates the two blocks and decides which one is correct and which one should be rejected. When a block is rejected it is orphaned. This is how even bitcoin works. However with paccoin you have the added Proof of Stake block. Miners make Proof of Work blocks (PoW), and holders of the coin make proof of Stake (PoS) blocks. Now if a miner sumbits a Proof of Work Block at a block height of 254328 for example and a Stake holder produces a Proof of Stake block at the same height of 254328, the network will decide which block is correct. With Proof of Work on Bitcoin, it is the fastest hash an the longest chain the prevails, with Proof of Stake it is determined by Coin Age. This is important. If you own a coin that has not staked and is 30 days old, and another person owns a coin that is 60 days old, if they both try to stake it will be the one with the 60 days that wins. When a proof of stake block comes through the difficulty to mine drops. Because the network's security model is not based on Proof of Work like bitcoin, you never have to worry about buying more and more powerful asic miners. Now the patch I referred to before that breakcrypto strongly endorses because it doesn't cause his mined blocks to get orphaned prevents the system above from working. What it does is it accepts both blocks, at the same height. that means there are two or more blocks with the same blockheight in his block chain. that means a new block can start growing on either one, therefore causing forks. Although there is no rewind issue for him, he may feel good that his blocks are not orphaning, the problem is it causes the rest of us to have wallets dropping out of sync. So when your wallet is in sync and suddenly it drops out of sync by 420 blocks now you know why. This did not happen until he started using his modified version. First, the patch very clearly only accepts blocks of a height greater than the last recorded height, there can't be two blocks of the same height. I know you dislike accepting reality, but: if (pindexNew->bnChainTrust > bnBestChainTrust && pindexNew->nHeight > nBestHeight)
For anyone who doesn't know C++ syntax, that says: does this block have a higher trust score AND does this new block have a height that is higher than the previous blocks I've seen? If not, it skips accepting that block on the chain. If the height is height, the block is accepted -- regardless of whether it's a PoS or PoW block. That said, if two blocks came in with the same height, the PoS block would win, and the PoW block would be discarded due to the way trust is settled in paccoin. Again, there wouldn't be two blocks added to the chain -- one would be accepted by the consensus of the nodes and the other would fail. The code speaks for itself, it's perfectly clear -- if you can't read it, it just proves my point all the more. And it doesn't cause anyone to fall out of sync if the patch were deployed but it isn't so your chain is still broken. Second, why does the patch actually work? The patch works because it short circuits the broken rewind code in paccoin. Paccoin was an ancient fork of peercoin but hasn't been updated in many years. Peercoin does chain rewinds in an atomic fashion and a stable manner (there have been numerous patches to the rewind logic over the years to address problems); however, paccoin is missing the fast majority of those patches. Transactions are supposed to be picked from the longer fork prior to the rewind and moved to the shorter fork, but it's done in a non-atomic fashion and multi-block forks that hit a PoW block appear to have an issue because they're forward looping instead of starting backwards. I'll be completely honest, as I have been and as I've stated on the github patch trying to help out Bill, I haven't had time to completely dig through that and still haven't / have no interest at this point. Third, if you read the peercoin whitepaper it explains exactly the type of issues that can arise when someone has too much stake -- that's exactly what's happening to the paccoin network. See https://peercoin.net/assets/paper/peercoin-paper.pdf . First the cost of controlling significant stake might be higher than the cost
of acquiring significant mining power, thus raising the cost of attack for such powerful
entities.
Unlike peercoin, in paccoin there are some massive wallets staking ancient blocks. One of the disadvantages of using total consumed coin age to determine main chain is
that it lowers the cost of attack on the entire block chain of history.
This. breakcrypto Great job breakcrypto! Well done. |
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hroub
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BCH Wallet: 1PmR3k4cA4YVy7r7RVgYdSjnon2A1aJSLk
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January 26, 2018, 01:19:09 AM |
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Hi! You are missing an exchange: https://btcpop.co/Exchange/PAC |
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DOGEbubble
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January 26, 2018, 02:25:47 AM |
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Wow, a lending platform; just in time for PAC.  |
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wmcorless (OP)
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paccoin
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January 26, 2018, 02:33:05 AM |
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