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Author Topic: Merit for Deleted Posts  (Read 345 times)
botany
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April 13, 2018, 08:55:10 PM
 #1

Merits for deleted posts are typically displayed with an error message link (Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored) when we visit a user's merit page.

However, when we go to our own merit page through the link
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;
and there are deleted posts for which we have been awarded merit, the subject of the threads is still visible.

Is this intentional? It had me confused for a while.
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April 13, 2018, 10:28:35 PM
 #2

I think it's intentional yes.

Thinking about this, random people checking merits aren't going to know what the thread is where a post got merited, but you will/may know the exact part of the thread you got the merit from. If not, going to an archive site that archives this forum regularly and checking the link there will give you waht it was merited for (providing it was archived after the merit was given).

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April 13, 2018, 11:28:13 PM
 #3

~snip~
Thinking about this, random people checking merits aren't going to know what the thread is where a post got merited, but you will/may know the exact part of the thread you got the merit from. If not, going to an archive site that archives this forum regularly and checking the link there will give you waht it was merited for (providing it was archived after the merit was given).
Wow, so we can check where and when we get it, can u give me link archive site that archives this forum regularly?

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April 14, 2018, 12:17:21 PM
Merited by Betwrong (2), LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #4

I think if a post is deleted for whatever reason then people should lose that merit as well. I think some people are purposely deleting their merited posts after they've received merit for it for whatever reason. Anyone can just merit some random trash post then delete it to get rid of the evidence. People could also just copy content then deleted the post once it's been merited. It's ripe for abuse if the merit stays after the post has gone.

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April 14, 2018, 12:22:02 PM
 #5

I think it's intentional yes.

Thinking about this, random people checking merits aren't going to know what the thread is where a post got merited, but you will/may know the exact part of the thread you got the merit from. If not, going to an archive site that archives this forum regularly and checking the link there will give you waht it was merited for (providing it was archived after the merit was given).

It doesn't hurt if random people know which deleted thread I got merits from. In any case, by clicking on the link they can find out the topic number. So if it indeed is saved on an archive site, anybody can go to the website and check out the exact post.

With current forum rule and its mechanisms, threads can be deleted, in contrast to merits (undeletable). Consequently, someone's threads can be deleted, but their merits related to those deleted threads will be here, never gone.

That is factually correct, but it has no connection with why I can see the subject of the deleted threads where I have been awarded merit, while third-parties only see an error message link (Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored)
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April 14, 2018, 02:37:09 PM
 #6

Is this intentional? It had me confused for a while.

I think it's intentional yes.

Thinking about this, random people checking merits aren't going to know what the thread is where a post got merited, but you will/may know the exact part of the thread you got the merit from. If not, going to an archive site that archives this forum regularly and checking the link there will give you waht it was merited for (providing it was archived after the merit was given).

This explanation doesn't make sense, particularly since when the OP looks at the merit lists for other people he's getting an error for the thread link...because the thread no longer exists.

To the OP, I bet your posts for which you've earned merit aren't deleted, they're just archived. So they still exist on the forum, which is why you don't get an error when clicking on the link.

Forum system logic is...simple...and logical. It's not written to have random exceptions without a very clear and meaningful functional purpose.

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April 14, 2018, 02:42:41 PM
 #7

I think merit abusers can intentionally delete their posts, to prevent merit trading/exchange discovery by other users. They first send 10-50 merits to some bullshit post and then delete it to hide evidence. Can be a coincidence though, I'm not accusing anyone.

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April 14, 2018, 02:51:16 PM
 #8

I think if a post is deleted for whatever reason then people should lose that merit as well. I think some people are purposely deleting their merited posts after they've received merit for it for whatever reason. Anyone can just merit some random trash post then delete it to get rid of the evidence. People could also just copy content then deleted the post once it's been merited. It's ripe for abuse if the merit stays after the post has gone.

Yeah that’s a good point, it’s perfect for noob’s to create multiple accounts & give themselves Merit points for shit posts they then delete which somewhat removes part of the trace. It’s much more difficult to prove Merit abuse if the post is deleted. 




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April 14, 2018, 02:54:06 PM
 #9

I think if a post is deleted for whatever reason then people should lose that merit as well. I think some people are purposely deleting their merited posts after they've received merit for it for whatever reason. Anyone can just merit some random trash post then delete it to get rid of the evidence. People could also just copy content then deleted the post once it's been merited. It's ripe for abuse if the merit stays after the post has gone.
I agree with your point but will add a secondary opinion:

For a post to be deleted means that it is not meritorious.

Whether the thread be trashed or the post deleted, it simply means that the post does not contribute to a discussion. This may not be the case for all posts but should encompass most deleted posts.

All the more reason to remove the merit for such posts. Simply means that they're not high-quality.

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April 14, 2018, 07:04:20 PM
 #10

Wow, so we can check where and when we get it, can u give me link archive site that archives this forum regularly?

https://archive.org/ used to do it daily I think. They've stepped it down from then but there's still quite a few archives of the site (it's done at least once a week at least - normally more).

Whether the thread be trashed or the post deleted, it simply means that the post does not contribute to a discussion. This may not be the case for all posts but should encompass most deleted posts.

No.

The OP can delete a post. Say I open up a topic to complain about someone here, every response I get says that I'm wrong and some of those posts get merited. Then, enraged by everyone's narrowmindedness, I delete the thread - it doesn't mean their posts weren't worth meriting. This means that someone could attack some people who post on threads. Also, who do these merits then go to? Do they go back to the sMerit spender or do they just disappear.




If the thread gets deleted by a mod then obviously, that's a completely different story...

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April 14, 2018, 07:45:20 PM
 #11

Merits for deleted posts are typically displayed with an error message link (Deleted/Off-limits/Ignored) when we visit a user's merit page.

However, when we go to our own merit page through the link
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;
and there are deleted posts for which we have been awarded merit, the subject of the threads is still visible.

Is this intentional? It had me confused for a while.

Merit is just like we give thumbs up on facebook posts. But as like we have merits. If post has been deleted by the op or trashcanned by the moderators. In these time we will find the post has been deleted or offtopic limits messages.
If any thread go for spamming later on most of the moderators used to delete those posts.
I do not think that for these we need to delete the merits. As above person said this intentionally made merit is simply superb. Nothing need to added towards it.
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April 14, 2018, 10:21:30 PM
 #12

Whether the thread be trashed or the post deleted, it simply means that the post does not contribute to a discussion. This may not be the case for all posts but should encompass most deleted posts.

No.

The OP can delete a post. Say I open up a topic to complain about someone here, every response I get says that I'm wrong and some of those posts get merited. Then, enraged by everyone's narrowmindedness, I delete the thread - it doesn't mean their posts weren't worth meriting. This means that someone could attack some people who post on threads. Also, who do these merits then go to? Do they go back to the sMerit spender or do they just disappear.
Then let us avoid that case. What, then, would you say about deleted posts and merit?

(I also hope that in self-moderated threads, there could be some section to actually check deleted posts. Either non-intrusive or a link off to the side. Maybe in the new forum coming in 3018?)
I think that for deleted posts, the merit should simply disappear. If we're avoiding the above case, then meriting a crappy post shouldn't result in a refund. Isn't that pretty prone to abuse?

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April 14, 2018, 10:54:00 PM
 #13

Then let us avoid that case. What, then, would you say about deleted posts and merit?
Posts deleted directly by a moderator should have theirm merits destroyed.
Threads deleted by a moderator should have posts demerited at the moderators' opinion.
Threads deleted by a non-moderator, in my opinion should keep their merits (I think that having a review bit would just make for too much effort for the moderators to try to look at) - they have a lot of work as it is already.

(I also hope that in self-moderated threads, there could be some section to actually check deleted posts. Either non-intrusive or a link off to the side. Maybe in the new forum coming in 3018?)
For merit or just in general?
Maybe a panel like what comes up when you click to ignore people maybe - so you can click "see" or "make visible" to see what the op deleted themselves.
If you're referring to the beta.bitcointalk.org/epochetalk forum, then that will take quite a while I think.

I think that for deleted posts, the merit should simply disappear. If we're avoiding the above case, then meriting a crappy post shouldn't result in a refund. Isn't that pretty prone to abuse?

A refund should not be given to the user who merited the post, I agree with that. Unless it was a self-mod topic where the post got deleted and my suggestion above was not the one adopted, in which case, the original meriter should get some sort of refund - maybe half the sMerits back?

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April 15, 2018, 08:25:17 AM
 #14

Most of them are not really deleted, they are in ignored boards by you. if you delete your post, sender should be refunded. it means that you didn't want the merits, they could be used for others actually wanting those merits.
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April 15, 2018, 09:47:36 AM
 #15

if you delete your post, sender should be refunded. it means that you didn't want the merits, they could be used for others actually wanting those merits.
Great. And how exactly would this work, considering the one receiving the merit would also get sMerit? Or will you let them keep the sMerit? That would lead to a lot of merit farming.

Will you cut off the chain of merit being sent out? Then that wouldn't be fair to the ones who actually have good posts and were sent merit from the chain extending from the deleted post.

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April 15, 2018, 10:35:55 AM
 #16

if you delete your post, sender should be refunded. it means that you didn't want the merits, they could be used for others actually wanting those merits.
Great. And how exactly would this work, considering the one receiving the merit would also get sMerit? Or will you let them keep the sMerit? That would lead to a lot of merit farming.

Will you cut off the chain of merit being sent out? Then that wouldn't be fair to the ones who actually have good posts and were sent merit from the chain extending from the deleted post.

Yup, the merits should be refunded and the smerits should be cancelled. It would be like a transaction which is void ab initio. The chain of merits can still be considered valid, if the senders had enough smerit (excluding the ones in this transaction). Otherwise, it can be cut off.
It is fair - good posts were considered meritorious by people who didn’t have enough smerits. Therefore these posts were not merited.
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April 16, 2018, 02:23:26 AM
 #17

Otherwise, it can be cut off.
It is fair - good posts were considered meritorious by people who didn’t have enough smerits. Therefore these posts were not merited.
But then imagine the following scenario:

Many people are rightfully given merit by someone whose post is later deleted. Then those people suddenly rank down. And in fact, what if someone had a highly merited post that was deleted? If that individual had given merit to many people, that's a lot of lost merit from the chain.

You have to consider all these edge cases. :/

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April 16, 2018, 04:00:50 AM
 #18

I think if a post is deleted for whatever reason then people should lose that merit as well. I think some people are purposely deleting their merited posts after they've received merit for it for whatever reason. Anyone can just merit some random trash post then delete it to get rid of the evidence. People could also just copy content then deleted the post once it's been merited. It's ripe for abuse if the merit stays after the post has gone.

100% agree with you, hillariousetc. It can be used as what you have mentioned in your post, and as far as i know only moderator can look into deleted posts (cmiiw) so it will be hard for people to help monitoring other members activity. There should be an automated archive for deleted posts that have merit on it.

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Seriously?

Otherwise, it can be cut off.
It is fair - good posts were considered meritorious by people who didn’t have enough smerits. Therefore these posts were not merited.
But then imagine the following scenario:

Many people are rightfully given merit by someone whose post is later deleted. Then those people suddenly rank down. And in fact, what if someone had a highly merited post that was deleted? If that individual had given merit to many people, that's a lot of lost merit from the chain.

You have to consider all these edge cases. :/

Is it possible to have an automated archive of deleted posts that have merits on it?
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April 16, 2018, 09:00:26 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2018, 09:26:50 AM by Bershie
 #19

if you delete your post, sender should be refunded. it means that you didn't want the merits, they could be used for others actually wanting those merits.
Great. And how exactly would this work, considering the one receiving the merit would also get sMerit? Or will you let them keep the sMerit? That would lead to a lot of merit farming.

Will you cut off the chain of merit being sent out? Then that wouldn't be fair to the ones who actually have good posts and were sent merit from the chain extending from the deleted post.

If the merited post was deleted without the moderator consent, then the Merit and sMerit should returned to the meriter.


If someone want to delete their merited post they asked the moderator for approval, if not the moderator well returned the merit and sMerit to the meriter to continue search meritable post.

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April 16, 2018, 10:19:38 AM
Merited by Betwrong (1)
 #20

The merit shouldn't be returned to sender if the post is deleted. It should just be destroyed. If a post is gone then so should the merit. People could just abuse it or delete the post to give the merit back for whatever reason.

as far as i know only moderator can look into deleted posts (cmiiw) so it will be hard for people to help monitoring other members activity. There should be an automated archive for deleted posts that have merit on it.



Only admins can see deleted posts and merit abuse isn't something they're going to waste time on.

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