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Author Topic: ATTN: MtGox  (Read 5356 times)
DrKennethNoisewater
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August 02, 2011, 12:15:54 AM
 #21

What's wrong with bots?

Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?

The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?

What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.

DKN
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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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Rodyland
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August 02, 2011, 12:59:12 AM
 #22

What's wrong with bots?

Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?

The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?

What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.

DKN

There may be bots trading US equity markets (and there are), but for the most part these bots have to pay for access.  First to be an effective bot you have to pay for colocation.  Then you have to pay for connectivity.  Then you have to pay for each trade executed.

(You can eliminate/minimise some of these costs but not all).

The problem isn't bots per-se, the problem is bots doing stupid things.  And when market access is free, stupid people can do stupid things with impunity.

Beware the weak hands!
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DrKennethNoisewater
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August 02, 2011, 01:09:11 AM
 #23

The "stupid" people are still at " stupid" risk for the "stupid" trades thAt may or maynot get executed
Rodyland
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August 02, 2011, 05:14:55 AM
 #24

The "stupid" people are still at " stupid" risk for the "stupid" trades thAt may or maynot get executed

Yes, but stupid people doing stupid things cause stupid amounts of market data, making everyone else's systems run slower.

Beware the weak hands!
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August 02, 2011, 07:21:51 AM
 #25

The "stupid" people are still at " stupid" risk for the "stupid" trades thAt may or maynot get executed

Those "stupid" trades that are executed are mostly at amounts way below 1 btc. Potential losses of a few percent on that kind of money are simply not enough to discourage stupid botting. Seriously, i have nothing against bots (i even share my workspace with Bender!), but these kiddy bots are pretty annoying.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
GeniuSxBoY
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August 02, 2011, 07:29:51 AM
 #26

What does MagicalTux have to say about this?
DrKennethNoisewater
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August 02, 2011, 04:03:52 PM
 #27

Yes, anyone from GOX listening?

The bot issue is annoying, but not nearly as annoying when you have standing orders to sell at 14.20 and BTC goes to 14.80,
yet no execution.

And of course, the typical broken English response from GOX, "Our system was down on the week end"
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August 02, 2011, 04:10:22 PM
 #28

My only issue with trading bots is the spamming of pretty much null values, assuming price adjustments at 0.00000123 @ $14 then someone else offers a real price of 4 @ $13.5

I dont mind the exchange rate spamming but the actual BTC volume offered at exchange rate is just stupid.

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August 02, 2011, 04:20:13 PM
 #29

if it wasn't for the bots jockeying for profit, this downward slide would be a lot more sharp.
GeniuSxBoY
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August 02, 2011, 04:24:53 PM
 #30

The bots aren't doing anything. I wonder how much the guy with the bot actually made. I'm thinking less than $10 or is in the hole
hiVe
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August 02, 2011, 05:04:09 PM
 #31

What's wrong with bots?

Have you ever aggressively traded the US equity markets?

The NASDAQ, NYSE, and AMX are all run by bots. What would
lead anyone to believe that the BTC markets would reject
automation?

What most inexperienced perceive as "a bot" are cascading reactions.

DKN

There may be bots trading US equity markets (and there are), but for the most part these bots have to pay for access.  First to be an effective bot you have to pay for colocation.  Then you have to pay for connectivity.  Then you have to pay for each trade executed.

(You can eliminate/minimise some of these costs but not all).

The problem isn't bots per-se, the problem is bots doing stupid things.  And when market access is free, stupid people can do stupid things with impunity.



So true! Im honestly also starting to get annoyed, especially since the additional overhead they impose on the system is making me spend 5 times more time @MtGox as I used to.
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August 02, 2011, 11:28:40 PM
 #32

Mtgox!!!! please change your policy.
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August 02, 2011, 11:40:28 PM
 #33

i must agree- i'd like to see less noobots and perhaps some sort of service for automation or trade limit.... something.....

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August 02, 2011, 11:48:54 PM
 #34

Would you pay a premium to get larger coins, like to get one entire bitcoin instead of 100,000,000 individual satoshis?

Isn't there some premium you pay in fees if the 100 bitcoins you bought actually turns out not to be 100 bitcoins but, rather, a few million fragments of bitcoins?

Maybe if these tiny trades are to be present, customers should be permitted to specify the denomination in which they wish to buy, so they can buy larger fragments only, no puny ones; or whole bitcoins only; or only coins worth at least 5 BTC each, etc?

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MagicalTux
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August 02, 2011, 11:53:47 PM
 #35

Yes, anyone from GOX listening?

The bot issue is annoying, but not nearly as annoying when you have standing orders to sell at 14.20 and BTC goes to 14.80,
yet no execution.

And of course, the typical broken English response from GOX, "Our system was down on the week end"

Where did you get such an answer? There was no problem during the weekend.

As for the price, no, bitcoin did not go up to 14.80, only one old order which was placed at that price and which didn't get executed got executed when we rebuilt the orderbook, that's all.

GeniuSxBoY
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August 02, 2011, 11:56:59 PM
 #36

So about these bots........ can you do something about them?
GeniuSxBoY
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August 07, 2011, 01:54:01 AM
 #37



Guess what time it is?





















Time to stop the bots.
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August 07, 2011, 03:45:20 AM
 #38


epetroel
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August 07, 2011, 04:55:56 AM
 #39

As someone who actually has a trading bot, I obviously wouldn't want to see any kind of extra charge for API calls.  MtGox already probably makes more money in commissions off me than I make off them Smiley

Then again, I don't see what this particular bot is trying to accomplish other than flood the market with junk orders that it never intends to execute.  My only guess would be that they are trying to confuse other traders or bots?  I can't see how it could make money doing what it is doing right now, but then again, maybe I'm missing something.

As someone else mentioned, seems like a small charge for excessive order cancellations would be the best way to stop these kinds of bots, if indeed they actually should be stopped (which I'm not entirely convinced of either).
PatrickHarnett
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August 08, 2011, 03:18:04 AM
 #40

So about these bots........ can you do something about them?
Have you lodged this with Gox, or just here on the forum? 
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