Bitcoin and the 51% Network Hack

[Blockchain.adm1n]

Scenario: Bitcoin becomes increasingly popular and threatens financial system. $170billion coin, a ton, but when you compare it to the $5 Trillion the world transacts everyday.......

Leading government might already have the computing technology; quantum and beyond to control 51% of the network/hashing power at will.

Once gaining control they could double spend to infinity with the longest line.

So is 51% sufficient?
Is crypto really secure

What are your thoughts?

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[BitProNews]

Actually, Btc doesn’t pose risks to financial stability, partly because it is still small relative to the financial system. All the bad scenarios may occurs at any time but the worst of them is the 51% network control which allows controler to interfear in the blockchain structure that may effect fees/block reward ... or even worst. Till this happen, there is no immediate solution.
In my opinion, forking the blockchain remain to be an issue rather than a solution.

[bob123]

Leading government might already have the computing technology; quantum and beyond to control 51% of the network/hashing power at will.

Quantum computers are not some magical machines which compute anything you want in no time.
They have to be researched, built, tested, .. It will tage ages until quantum computers might be able to break bitcoins security.

Neither does the government spend massive amounts on money to build asics to let them stay unused until they may decide to use them..

Once gaining control they could double spend to infinity with the longest line.

An attacker with 51% can't do anything he wishes.

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:

    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

The attacker can't:

    Reverse other people's transactions without their cooperation
    Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
    Change the number of coins generated per block
    Create coins out of thin air
    Send coins that never belonged to him

Source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power

[bubblebubble]

I think that it is a relative problem because of of the interest in crypto currency grows, there will be always the possibility to swap on other currency, considering new crosschain protocols.

[Blockchain.adm1n]

Leading government might already have the computing technology; quantum and beyond to control 51% of the network/hashing power at will.

Quantum computers are not some magical machines which compute anything you want in no time.
They have to be researched, built, tested, .. It will tage ages until quantum computers might be able to break bitcoins security.

Neither does the government spend massive amounts on money to build asics to let them stay unused until they may decide to use them..

Once gaining control they could double spend to infinity with the longest line.

An attacker with 51% can't do anything he wishes.

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:

    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

The attacker can't:

    Reverse other people's transactions without their cooperation
    Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
    Change the number of coins generated per block
    Create coins out of thin air
    Send coins that never belonged to him

Source: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power

51% attack not pow cracking attack please ignore the quantum reference as it takes away from the point.


Most basic computers can mine/become a full node and/or connect to a minning pool, so as long as the have computing power it will only require plugging in a supercomputer or two. SO they dont actually have to break algorithms of security but simply outperform total current network and destroy the confidence in the coin. Btw quantum was just an example, but we must also remember government tech is not even passed down for decades.
Plus they have exp with supercomputers so it would take weeks going the overall network control route.
The point was if 51% is achieved and maintaned is our btc credibility as a secure replacement currency not at risk.

and if the banks/govts way of life is threatened they will dedicate a project of the like. because the door is their or am I missing something.

With 51% they can
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

if this is all they can do then thats bad enough.

A backdoor is a backdoor anyhow you sugar coat it. because its not one for mere mortals doesnt mean its not there.

[bob123]

51% attack not pow cracking attack

You have mentioned quantum computers.
If they would exist (they don't) they would be used to attack the ECDSA... not mining.
ASIC's are made for mining.

please ignore the quantum reference as it takes away from the point.

You have mentioned quantum computers.

Most basic computers can mine/become a full node and/or connect to a minning pool, so as long as the have computing power it will only require plugging in a supercomputer or two.

1 or 2 'supercomputers' won't achieve as much hashing power as bitmain, for example.. with all their ASIC farms.
If you want to mine bitcoin efficiently, you need an ASIC.
Because thats what they do. Thats the only thing they can. They are made for the only purpose of calculating sha256 hashes.

SO they dont actually have to break algorithms of security but simply outperform total current network and destroy the confidence in the coin.

Theoretically, maybe.
Practically not going to happen.

and if the banks/govts way of life is threatened they will dedicate a project of the like. because the door is their or am I missing something.

Or they rather choose to ban the possession/usage of cryptocurrencies, instead of investing billions into trying to stop something which won't be stopped.
Imagine governments spending all their money on building the biggest mining factory. A simple hardfork would completely destroy their whole 'investment'.

A backdoor is a backdoor anyhow you sugar coat it.

How is that now related to a backdoor?

[cloudproject]

i think btc are very secure for being hacked by someone by it wallet, and the dumbest is the people when they are open some phising website or porn site that can make their data stolen

[dothebeats]

These dudes might have the technology to initiate such an attack, but the real question is do they have the means to sustain it? Would network control be worth the effort? By the time people realize that bitcoin is under such an attack, they would immediately sell whatever they're holding until the situation pans out. In short, they'll gain practically nothing by exhausting vast amounts of power, so no.

[boy130]

Huge mining networks like Bitcoin and ETH are pretty much secure against an attack, it would take billions of dollars in mining power to overturn the network, and even most pools don't come anywhere near close enough to successfully execute such an attack. Other, smaller POW based cryptos may be susceptible however, hence why so few make it big.

[bobo012]

Scenario: Bitcoin becomes increasingly popular and threatens financial system. $170billion coin, a ton, but when you compare it to the $5 Trillion the world transacts everyday.......

Leading government might already have the computing technology; quantum and beyond to control 51% of the network/hashing power at will.

Once gaining control they could double spend to infinity with the longest line.

So is 51% sufficient?
Is crypto really secure

What are your thoughts?

It is not beneficial to the attacker to proceed with the attack. Listen to the andreas on youtube, he has addressed that issue a few times.

[shield132]

I have created similar thread too but my idea was uniting of two giant mining companies.
At first community plays a great role here, our thoughts are very important for others and yes, it's not a lie or dream.
No one will do it logically because they need to exchange bitcoins somewhere, if they go against others, exchangers can to go against them or even people can panic and dramatically fall prise.
You'll read very interesting post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3308081.msg35130290#msg35130290

[Herbert2020]

Scenario: Bitcoin becomes increasingly popular ....

your answer is right here!
as bitcoin grows, the hashrate of it also grows. you can see that currently it has the highest hashrate of all times despite price being less than half the ATH. and in the future this will be a lot higher and also a lot more distributed (compare distribution of hashrate from 2010 and 2018 and you will see).
this means having 51% of the hashrate becomes harder and much more expensive and eventually impossible.

[Kakmakr]

Let's just get this out of the way first, Bitcoin is currently the strongest network in the world. There are no network that can equal the hashing power that the Bitcoin network has. It is also the fastest growing network out there, so these governments will have to grow at a phenomenal speed to keep up.

So the money and public funds that these governments will have to dump into this, will be astronomical and the gains will be minimal. Once this becomes public knowledge, tax payers will riot, because this money would be better spend on other needs and the price will drop, when investors realize what these governments are doing.

[Dudeperfect]

In the case of 51% attack, it would not only destroy the Bitcoin network but also it will be exactly like committing suicide along with millions of dollars because whenever such attack will be executed, on the next moment the price will be $0 and anyone putting efforts to execute such attack would lose his entire resources. Now, as it will require a huge amount of money, I don't think that government will try anything like that, to be honest.

[palle11]

i have a question, where do you get that 51%?

This has also been in my mind to know where the statistics came from. There is no doubt that the more bitcoin grows, the more we have people trying to eat from people's investment but we should understand where the analysis is coming from.

[MLBBPLG]

until now the bitcoin and crypto are still safe, although transacted to trillions, compared with the original currency. bitcoin and crypto are more transparent than the original currency