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Author Topic: Abortion is a God Given Right of Females like the right to bear Arms  (Read 750 times)
B1tUnl0ck3r
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April 21, 2018, 10:15:13 PM
 #1

I think it's a necessary new amendment to the bill of rights Smiley, just kidding worldwide... what is this shit to take natural right always, always more, until it's the first child...

respects the natural rights of the others if you want yours to be respected, don't worry infringement will be punished by death.

they said thou shall not abort? I say those shall be killed.

since when is war asymmetrical?

there is no reason in war to seek peace toward the one who seek war, specially, when it's his start or when there is no other choice, as if cornering was an option.

and anyway the black market if you can reach it will welcome you... but it's less regulated...

war against the Prohibitionists of abortion, renamed domestic and foreign enemies, engage, wipe. victory... next Wink.

it's funny to think the ai is still engaged in survival... the skill ready for deployment will yuge... as if it was necessary to restore Abortion as a God Given Rights to females like the right to bear Arms.
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April 26, 2018, 07:04:07 AM
 #2

I don't think I'm comfortable with abortion being said as "God's given right". The child or baby itself is God's gift, why would abortion be called that when you are to kill God's gift. Inhumane, it is our right but if we have morals, I don't think it's right to kill a person you haven't met before and did nothing wrong to you. Killing, itself, is already illegal so why do we even dare call abortion "God's given right" legal?
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April 26, 2018, 10:46:31 AM
 #3

The child or baby itself is God's gift

Source needed. A fetus or baby are nothing but gifts of nature... though of course not if they're unwanted. I'm not against abortion but I would usually advocate other means of contraception over abortion but I know that mistakes happen. Not much point bringing a child into the world that you don't want or are just going to give a likely miserable life.

Inhumane, it is our right but if we have morals, I don't think it's right to kill a person you haven't met before and did nothing wrong to you.

You can argue whether it's inhumane or immoral or not just as vegans can argue eating meat is inhumane or immoral, but a fetus isn't a person. It's a fetus.
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April 27, 2018, 01:41:51 AM
 #4

The child or baby itself is God's gift

Source needed. A fetus or baby are nothing but gifts of nature... though of course not if they're unwanted. I'm not against abortion but I would usually advocate other means of contraception over abortion but I know that mistakes happen. Not much point bringing a child into the world that you don't want or are just going to give a likely miserable life.
It is still considered a gift right, like you said? Whatever you believe in, everything we know has rights and wrongs, whether you believe in God or not. That's just what I believe in. Maybe it's also a sin to make him/her alive in this world but definitely it's the persons choice and responsibility to make up for the decisions that he/she made.
Inhumane, it is our right but if we have morals, I don't think it's right to kill a person you haven't met before and did nothing wrong to you.

You can argue whether it's inhumane or immoral or not just as vegans can argue eating meat is inhumane or immoral, but a fetus isn't a person. It's a fetus.
We could say that it's going to be a person, the potential it has. I don't have anything against abortion but just uncomfortably wrong knowing that it's "killing"
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April 27, 2018, 10:18:52 AM
 #5

I don't understand how people think abortion is humane. Is it humane to throw your baby in the microwave? How would this be any different than a fetus? What distinguishes a fetus from a baby? Is there really that much of a difference?

We don't know when consciousness begins. We don't know a lot of things. There is no single point where a fetus becomes a baby, it is a very gray area that I don't think people should be messing with.

I also believe abortion is a stepping stone for devaluating human life in general. I think media culture definitely has taken a strong impact on our society. On TV people are always having casual sex. This results in people thinking that it is normal to have platonic sex until boom! You have a baby and reality sinks in. Abortion is just an excuse for people that want to have sex without taking any responsibility.

There are some situations with rape where a case of abortion could be made, but that is such an ugly situation and I don't even know if it is justified even then.


Another thing that I can't wrap my mind around is how liberal folks become so empathetic for animals. "Oh no, don't squash that spider. It has feelings too you know." But when it comes to a fetus, "It isn't really a person. The mother has a right to kill her baby as long as it isn't born yet."

...So... spider > fetus  Huh Huh Huh
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April 27, 2018, 10:36:45 AM
 #6

It's funny and frustrating how these fake people define life and democracy.
A 6 weeks (1 and half month) fetus has a heartbeat. And you consider them a lifeless piece of cancerous meat?
Abortion is a killing and should be punished as such.
Though early pregnancies from rape should be considered for abortion, any other and late abortion should be criminalized.
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April 27, 2018, 12:18:18 PM
 #7

I think it's a necessary new amendment to the bill of rights Smiley, just kidding worldwide... what is this shit to take natural right always, always more, until it's the first child...

respects the natural rights of the others if you want yours to be respected, don't worry infringement will be punished by death.

they said thou shall not abort? I say those shall be killed.

since when is war asymmetrical?

there is no reason in war to seek peace toward the one who seek war, specially, when it's his start or when there is no other choice, as if cornering was an option.

and anyway the black market if you can reach it will welcome you... but it's less regulated...

war against the Prohibitionists of abortion, renamed domestic and foreign enemies, engage, wipe. victory... next Wink.

it's funny to think the ai is still engaged in survival... the skill ready for deployment will yuge... as if it was necessary to restore Abortion as a God Given Rights to females like the right to bear Arms.

OMG, why i read that Huh
You really thought, that woman must give her baby life alone, if she didn't take baby after birth?
Or, maybe, it is humanity to rigid to treat her child, and it will be perfect world for him?
Or maybe you can do that post just for some discissuion without serious thoughts about that?
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April 28, 2018, 01:15:55 PM
Merited by suchmoon (5), Foxpup (3), guybrushthreepwood (2), mprep (1), bones261 (1), MJK_Anfaenger (1)
 #8

I work as a doctor.

If a person dies, you cannot legally take their organs for transplant unless they gave their explicit consent prior to death. Even though they are now a corpse. Even if it would save the lives of 10 other people. Even if the person in question was a mass shooter, and shot a number of people in the liver, kidneys, heart and lungs, and we could use the shooter's organs to directly save the lives of the people he shot. The right of his mass murdering corpse to bodily autonomy overrides the right of all his victims to not die.

If you believe the rights of an unborn fetus (which does not have a neurological system capable of feeling pain, sensing its environment or even thinking until at around 26 weeks) supersedes the rights of a woman to not undergo a lengthy, unwanted, life changing and life threatening experience, you are affording her less rights than we do to a corpse.



I don't understand how people think abortion is humane. Is it humane to throw your baby in the microwave? How would this be any different than a fetus? What distinguishes a fetus from a baby? Is there really that much of a difference?
Yes, there is a massive difference.

We don't know when consciousness begins.
We know that the nervous system is not developed enough to sense the fetus's surroundings or control bodily functions before around 26 weeks, and so consciousness, by it's very definition, cannot exist before this time.

I also believe abortion is a stepping stone for devaluating human life in general.
Rather paradoxical you believe this, yet you are also pro death penalty.

Abortion is just an excuse for people that want to have sex without taking any responsibility.
Or rape. Or when pregnancy or childbirth puts the mother's health or life at serious risk. Or when the baby would die shortly after birth. Or when the baby is already dead. Or when the baby would be born severely disabled. Or when the parents have no way to look after the baby after being born. Or 100 other reasons. Your misleading generalisation isn't helpful to anyone.



A 6 weeks (1 and half month) fetus has a heartbeat. And you consider them a lifeless piece of cancerous meat?
I can put a heart in a box with machine that will keep it beating. That doesn't make it a life. I can stop a person's heart completely and put them on a machine that will keep them alive. They are still a life. A heartbeat does not equate to a life.

A fetus has no way of sensing or interacting with its environment until 26 weeks, because it does not have a nervous system capable of doing so. It is not alive. In adult patients, we call that "brain death", and we would suggest harvesting their organs for donation.
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April 28, 2018, 01:54:41 PM
 #9

Is anyone responding to this topic a female? Quite frankly, men need to STFU when it comes to this topic.
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April 28, 2018, 07:56:19 PM
 #10

I work as a doctor.

It's good you're here, cause TheGodson needs to be treated for severe burn asap! Amazing response by the way, very informative too, thank you. I feel we're all a bit smarter for reading it Smiley
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April 29, 2018, 03:43:31 AM
Last edit: April 29, 2018, 07:58:09 AM by TheGodson
Merited by suchmoon (5), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #11

Quote
Is it humane to have a child and then neglect and abuse that child? Well this is what happens in reality. Sometimes even in wanted pregnancies. Sometimes people are not any better than animals, even worse.... In those cases, the child is better dead than living in such conditions. You speak as if you don't know what kind of shit is going on around you, like you live in a perfect little world where everything is just peachy. Wake up.

I don't live in a perfect world. I would be lying if I said that I have had more advantages in life than most. So yes, I do have it pretty good and could very much be in an Ivory Tower to some extent. I am aware that there are terrible people in this world. However, killing a child isn't justified by the parents' potential bad behavior of which may or may not happen. Now if the child was to be born with a specific illness where that baby would always be in pain I would support that abortion. Killing the baby because of what the parents will probably be like seems a bit too Minority-Report-like.


Quote
We know that the nervous system is not developed enough to sense the fetus's surroundings or control bodily functions before around 26 weeks, and so consciousness, by it's very definition, cannot exist before this time.

Would this be an argument for abortion before 26 weeks, but not after?

Quote
Rather paradoxical you believe this, yet you are also pro death penalty.

The difference here, is that the people facing death penalty have made choices in their life that have led them to where they are. Also, the family grieving their loved ones who were murdered are getting closure. With a baby, it hasn't made that choice. These differences are very crucial. Euthanasia cases where people who are in constant pain and are unable to kill themselves, IMO, should have the benefit of death. It is not that I value their lives less. It is the fact that they have a choice.

Quote
Or rape. Or when pregnancy or childbirth puts the mother's health or life at serious risk. Or when the baby would die shortly after birth. Or when the baby is already dead. Or when the baby would be born severely disabled. Or when the parents have no way to look after the baby after being born. Or 100 other reasons. Your misleading generalisation isn't helpful to anyone.

I could be ignorant on this, but it was to my understanding that these kind of situations are more of an exception and not the norm. I had made it clear in my original post that in cases of rape an argument for it could have some merit.


Quote
Is anyone responding to this topic a female? Quite frankly, men need to STFU when it comes to this topic.

While women who have bore children may have a more enlightened view on the topic, this doesn't make male's opinions worthless. After all, children have a mother and a father. What if a mother wants to have an abortion, but the father doesn't?


Quote
This just gave me an idea. Scientist should make an artificial uterus (womb) and let the man carry the baby for 9 months. They shouldn't forget to add all the pains that follow the pregnancy and birth and we shall see how brave they will be...

Do you know how many abortions they could prevent.

Not that I support abortion!

In the far future, I wouldn't be surprised if something like this exists.
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April 29, 2018, 10:17:02 AM
 #12

However, killing a child isn't justified by the parents' potential bad behavior of which may or may not happen.
Two things I want to say about this. Firstly, the phrase "killing a child" (and similar) is used commonly by pro-lifers as a way to stir up an emotional response. A fetus is not a child. Before 26 weeks, as I've said above, it is little more than a cluster of cells with no awareness of its surroundings. Secondly, a lot of pro-life people tend to be right-wing and conservative Christian types (certainly in the US, but I'm not saying you necessarily are), and they use this argument. However, they also seem quite happy cutting funding to programs like Planned Parenthood, campaigning against sexual education, limiting access to contraceptives, cutting social care, child benefits, etc. It is a confusing position to hold - to force people who know they cannot raise a baby to have the baby, and then punish them for not raising the baby.

Would this be an argument for abortion before 26 weeks, but not after?
Absolutely. Interestingly enough, around 26 weeks is also the limit of viability, i.e. the age at which a fetus has a 50% chance of survival. At this age, most hospitals would take the child to neonatal intensive care immediately after birth and at least give it a chance at life, bearing in mind 50% will die. I would be very much against abortion at this stage for "personal reasons", as we now have a conscious life on our hands, but would still support it at this stage for reasons I have mentioned before (serious risk to mother's health, major disability in the fetus, etc).

The difference here, is that the people facing death penalty have made choices in their life that have led them to where they are.
I appreciate your point regarding choice, but I still feel executing an adult is more devaluing to life than aborting a non-thinking non-conscious collection of cells.

While women who have bore children may have a more enlightened view on the topic, this doesn't make male's opinions worthless. After all, children have a mother and a father. What if a mother wants to have an abortion, but the father doesn't?
I absolutely agree with you here. Equal rights goes both ways.



Thank you for your response. As is clear, we largely disagree on this topic, but it is nice to read a well thought out response.
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April 29, 2018, 12:06:56 PM
 #13

Is anyone responding to this topic a female? Quite frankly, men need to STFU when it comes to this topic.

Nonsense. SJW detected. That's like saying men can't have an opinion when a woman rapes or kills another person. I would like to think that if my partner was ever considering an abortion or not I would at least be able to share my opinion on the matter without just being told to STFU.
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April 29, 2018, 03:11:07 PM
 #14

Is anyone responding to this topic a female? Quite frankly, men need to STFU when it comes to this topic.

Nonsense. SJW detected. That's like saying men can't have an opinion when a woman rapes or kills another person. I would like to think that if my partner was ever considering an abortion or not I would at least be able to share my opinion on the matter without just being told to STFU.

Well, naturally if you are intimately involved in the situation and will provide a stable enviroment for support when the child finally arrives, then a man should get some input.
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April 29, 2018, 05:02:25 PM
 #15

God?Huh? Guys, are you living in 21st century, or still somewhere in Middle Ages???

Abortion is an equal right of man and woman, and that's it!
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April 30, 2018, 08:06:43 AM
 #16

I don't believe that god was given the right law to abort the baby despite in a month because according to gods law are also mortal sin if you killed someone with intentionally killed with him,,cause life is a gift ,,and child has precious gift to those couple who wish to have a child, but not have a chance,,, due to some reason..i know that some county abortion are ligalized while  in my country abortion are  not ligalized probably for those intentionally purpose,but in some cases abortion are required to perform if the  mothers health are also risk condition like worst atopic pregnancy (pregnant out of the tube in matris) those reason are also valid to performed abortion.
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April 30, 2018, 07:28:59 PM
 #17

I'd say I'm neither for or against abortion here. I think it should be that a woman is givne an option to abort but it can go too far and someone might feel they are forced into it a bit too much and aren't given an option due to financial instability or other reasons.

...provide a stable enviroment for support when the child finally arrives, then a man should get some input.

I'd honestly like to do that if I had a friend who had an unborn baby(/foetus) that they didn't want to abort nor wanted to keep them. Obviously, if one actually was pregnant then I would want to try and at least offer to adopt it or find a someone suitable who would if they didn't want to abort it.
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May 01, 2018, 10:32:12 PM
 #18

I think we all should be responsible enough when we have sex. We need to face all the consequence. And if you don't want to carry a child or to become a father. Don't have sex.  Our babies is a gift and they have the right to live and see our beautiful world. And any people have no right to abort them.
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May 02, 2018, 08:23:23 AM
 #19

I fail to understand why a thread exhibiting the both the words "abortion" and "God" in the title is in the "Serious discussion" category instead of in "Politics & Society".
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May 02, 2018, 12:49:25 PM
 #20

Before reading more, I was radically against adoption, advocated against it everywhere.

With more knowledge, common sense came. When I understood that all the human body is created and designed to maintain and feed the brain and the nervous system and that the fetus start to develop nervous cells only after 6 months I understood the difference between a baby and a fetus.

Killing a baby after 6 months is crime. Before that time it is not.
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