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Author Topic: [HAVELOCK] (HIF) Havelock Investments Fund  (Read 69615 times)
havelock
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November 19, 2013, 05:44:12 PM
Last edit: November 26, 2013, 02:27:59 PM by havelock
 #1

We are pleased to announce the release of the new IVFO (Initial Virtual Fund Offering):

(HIF) HavelockInvestments.com Fund

HavelockInvestments.com offers a software platform through its website which allows Companies to apply for Venture Capital Funds and be listed through our Bitcoin denominated Fund. Our revenue is derived from Listing Fees, Maintenance Fees and Exchange Fees.
 
This Fund is offered as a way for our loyal users to participate in any profits derived from the operations of the HavelockInvestments.com website.

HavelockInvestments.com will offer a total of 20,000,000 units.

15,000,000 (75%) will be restricted units held privately by the owners of the Fund

5,000,000 (25%) will be floated via the exchange

This offer will represent Twenty Percent (20%) in virtual units of the HavelockInvestments.com which is comprised in total of 100,000,000 units of the Fund. These units will never be diluted.

These units will be offered exclusively through the HavelockInvestments.com Website

The Units of the HavelockInvestments.com Fund will be released over 4 Blocks.

Each Block released will offer a total of:

One Million Two Hundred and Fifty Thousand (1,250,000) Units each.

The schedule of the Blocks will be as follows:
November 20th, 2013 12 PM 1st Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 50% Discount    ฿0.0005 Per Unit = 625 BTC **SOLD OUT**
November 22nd, 2013       2nd Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 33% Discount         ฿0.00066 Per Unit = 825 BTC ** Timed Out**
*TBD 3rd Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 25% Discount                                        ฿0.00075 Per Unit =  937.5 BTC
*TBD 4th Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a face value                                            ฿0.001 Per Unit   = 1250 BTC

The above Blocks will be released based on market conditions.
Open Market Orders will begin November 27th, 2013 12 PM EST

Updates on when the Blocks will be released will be made exclusively through the HavelockInvestments.com website

Please review our prospectus before purchasing any of the Fund's Units at https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php

For more info please visit: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=HIF
Or contact us at Contact@HavelockInvestments.com

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November 19, 2013, 07:07:18 PM
 #2

Are new listings being accepted at Havelock?  Seems like there was a lot of potential listings to be had after BTCTC and Bitfunder and Havelock wasn't aggressive in getting this business.

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
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November 19, 2013, 07:12:57 PM
 #3

Please review our prospectus before purchasing any of the Fund's Units

Where can this prospectus be found?  I am unable to find a link to it on the Havelock site.


BTC:  1K4VpdQXQhgmTmq68rbWhybvoRcyNHKyVP
havelock
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November 19, 2013, 07:13:11 PM
 #4

Are new listings being accepted at Havelock?  Seems like there was a lot of potential listings to be had after BTCTC and Bitfunder and Havelock wasn't aggressive in getting this business.

Yes! We are currently processing new applications.

If you would like to apply please send an e-mail to: Funds@HavelockInvestments.com

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 07:22:25 PM
 #5

Please review our prospectus before purchasing any of the Fund's Units

Where can this prospectus be found?  I am unable to find a link to it on the Havelock site.



https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php

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November 19, 2013, 07:25:08 PM
 #6

Please review our prospectus before purchasing any of the Fund's Units

Where can this prospectus be found?  I am unable to find a link to it on the Havelock site.



https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php
I really think you should link to that from the security.
havelock
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November 19, 2013, 07:34:22 PM
 #7

Please review our prospectus before purchasing any of the Fund's Units

Where can this prospectus be found?  I am unable to find a link to it on the Havelock site.



https://www.havelockinvestments.com/reports.php
I really think you should link to that from the security.

Done!
Thank you for your input!

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November 19, 2013, 07:41:38 PM
 #8

Done!
Thank you for your input!
great reaction speed!

Concerning the prospectus "PROJECTED REVENUE": do all securities pay as listed there? Didn't TAT mention something about getting favorable conditions for listing his funds as they helped kickstart this exchange?
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November 19, 2013, 07:45:05 PM
 #9


great reaction speed!

Concerning the prospectus "PROJECTED REVENUE": do all securities pay as listed there? Didn't TAT mention something about getting favorable conditions for listing his funds as they helped kickstart this exchange?


The fees are based on our general current Tariff. Any discounts if any to any Fund will be based on a case by case basis.

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 08:01:23 PM
 #10

so what's the actual price? On the site it's 0.005 in prospectus 0.0005?

I'd like to thank eduffield and the other developers for this critically important evolution in virtual currency. DarkCoin is what bitcoin should have been. Some might call it "Bitcoin 2.0" but would do better by saying: "DarkCoin is digital cash."  -  Child Harold - February 28, 2014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5424980#msg5424980
havelock
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November 19, 2013, 08:11:41 PM
 #11

so what's the actual price? On the site it's 0.005 in prospectus 0.0005?

Thank you for catching this error.

The price is BTC0.0005.

We fixed that on the public offering, will be out in about an hour.

Can you please provide us with your BTC address we would like to send you a reward.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 08:16:09 PM
 #12

wow you guys thanks a bunch! really unexpected Smiley 1CDBTX12qwyKzp2p1c8oWncGWTfHYq5gZA

I'd like to thank eduffield and the other developers for this critically important evolution in virtual currency. DarkCoin is what bitcoin should have been. Some might call it "Bitcoin 2.0" but would do better by saying: "DarkCoin is digital cash."  -  Child Harold - February 28, 2014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5424980#msg5424980
havelock
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November 19, 2013, 08:28:27 PM
 #13

wow you guys thanks a bunch! really unexpected Smiley 1CDBTX12qwyKzp2p1c8oWncGWTfHYq5gZA

We are all Unit Holders in the Bitcoin open source economy!

Thanx again!

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 08:35:40 PM
 #14

wow you guys thanks a bunch! really unexpected Smiley 1CDBTX12qwyKzp2p1c8oWncGWTfHYq5gZA

We are all Unit Holders in the Bitcoin open source economy!

Thanx again!

Havelock Investments

speechless mate! those will go straight into HIF Smiley Cheers!

I'd like to thank eduffield and the other developers for this critically important evolution in virtual currency. DarkCoin is what bitcoin should have been. Some might call it "Bitcoin 2.0" but would do better by saying: "DarkCoin is digital cash."  -  Child Harold - February 28, 2014
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg5424980#msg5424980
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November 19, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
 #15

so what's the actual price? On the site it's 0.005 in prospectus 0.0005?

Thank you for catching this error.

The price is BTC0.0005.

We fixed that on the public offering, will be out in about an hour.

Can you please provide us with your BTC address we would like to send you a reward.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments


*Facepalm*
lol, I told James about this on IRC minutes after he published the docs the first time around  Cheesy

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November 19, 2013, 08:49:34 PM
Last edit: November 19, 2013, 09:24:03 PM by havelock
 #16

(HIF) HavlockInvestments

HavlockInvestments

HavelcokInvestments

HavlockInvestments
The only one missing seems to be HavecocksInvestments.

We are trying to cover all spelling options for SEO purposes.
 Grin

Thank you.

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November 19, 2013, 09:32:49 PM
 #17

Other than the fact that you are registered in Panama, how can you ensure that Havelock will not go the way of BitFunder and BTCT? I don't see how you guys are any more exempt from the same vulnerabilities that they were exposed to.

Investors could be S.O.L. if a month from now the feds come crashing down your door with immense pressure making you close down.
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November 19, 2013, 09:39:25 PM
 #18

Other than the fact that you are registered in Panama, how can you ensure that Havelock will not go the way of BitFunder and BTCT? I don't see how you guys are any more exempt from the same vulnerabilities that they were exposed to.

Investors could be S.O.L. if a month from now the feds come crashing down your door with immense pressure making you close down.

The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 10:03:06 PM
 #19

So, just to clarify...

The total number of undilutable shares is 100,000,000.
The percentage of shares actually traded publicly will be 5% of the total.
At a face value of BTC0.001 (ignoring IPO discounts), Havelock Investments will be worth BTC100,000. That's almost $70 million at current prices.

I apologise in advance if I'm missing something...

We're hunting for Leviathan, and Bitcoin is our harpoon.
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November 19, 2013, 10:12:34 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2013, 01:25:08 AM by havelock
 #20

So, just to clarify...

The total number of undilutable shares is 100,000,000.
The percentage of shares actually traded publicly will be 5% of the total.
At a face value of BTC0.001 (ignoring IPO discounts), Havelock Investments will be worth BTC100,000. That's almost $70 million at current prices.

I apologise in advance if I'm missing something...


Based on our projected FY 2014 Revenue and Profit the price is based on 12X PE
Which our Investments Advisers on our team believe is a very low PE ratio for our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Also remember that all of Revenues will be Bitcoin based regardless of the Fiat/BTC ratio.

Thank you,

HIF

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November 19, 2013, 10:23:43 PM
 #21

Other than the fact that you are registered in Panama, how can you ensure that Havelock will not go the way of BitFunder and BTCT? I don't see how you guys are any more exempt from the same vulnerabilities that they were exposed to.

Investors could be S.O.L. if a month from now the feds come crashing down your door with immense pressure making you close down.

The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

It's not that simple, if you are offering securities to U.S. citizens or anyone anywhere in the world for that matter, your business is operating in their jurisdiction. Basically an unregulated stock exchange, which, just like BF and BTCT, when you get pressured you pretty much won't have any choice but to shut down.

Not that I don't appreciate your service, but you're delusional if you think you're protected just because you are registered in Panama.
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November 19, 2013, 10:28:18 PM
 #22

What is the capital to be raised in this IPO needed for?

bitcoin price ticker | bits.so
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November 19, 2013, 10:33:30 PM
 #23

So, just to clarify...

The total number of undilutable shares is 100,000,000.
The percentage of shares actually traded publicly will be 5% of the total.
At a face value of BTC0.001 (ignoring IPO discounts), Havelock Investments will be worth BTC100,000. That's almost $70 million at current prices.

I apologise in advance if I'm missing something...

Based on our projected FY 2014 Revenue and Profit the price is based on 12X PE
Which our Investments Advisers on our team believe is a very low PE ratio for our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Also remember that all of Revenues will be Bitcoin based regardless of the Fiat/BTC ratio.

Thank you,

HIF

Based on the BTC5870 mentioned in the prospectus, I think that should be ~17X.

We're hunting for Leviathan, and Bitcoin is our harpoon.
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November 19, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
 #24


Based on the BTC5870 mentioned in the prospectus, I think that should be ~17X.

It is an approximation at this time. Remember over 75% of our offering will be done in a discount.

Also we are not issuing any securities, but are offering our users the ability to purchase units of the Funds that
we manage.

Feel free to contact us directly so that we may explain that further.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 10:48:01 PM
 #25

1 BTC monthly fee for listing seems a lot, many small-but-profitable securities might have problems paying that.
Have you considered and discarded the possibility of offering discounts to some securities, or is there a chance of that happening?
Thinking there will be 50 securities able to pay that fee is overly optimistic, I fear.

1LohorisJie8bGGG7X4dCS9MAVsTEbzrhu
DefaultTrust is very BAD.
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November 19, 2013, 10:51:09 PM
 #26

It is an approximation at this time. Remember over 75% of our offering will be done in a discount.

Also we are not issuing any securities, but are offering our users the ability to purchase units of the Funds that
we manage.

Feel free to contact us directly so that we may explain that further.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments


Thank you for your prompt and honest responses.

We're hunting for Leviathan, and Bitcoin is our harpoon.
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November 19, 2013, 10:53:21 PM
 #27

1 BTC monthly fee for listing seems a lot, many small-but-profitable securities might have problems paying that.
Have you considered and discarded the possibility of offering discounts to some securities, or is there a chance of that happening?
Thinking there will be 50 securities able to pay that fee is overly optimistic, I fear.


The 1 BTC Maintenance fee to continue to be listed with our Site is based on our current General Tariff.
Adjustments or discounts will be considered based on the size of the asset we manage.

HIF

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November 19, 2013, 10:57:56 PM
 #28

so that projected profit of 5870 btc (it really takes 2K btc to run your exchange?) is divided by 100,000,000 shares?

That's .0000587 per share, at a value of .001, so like 5.87% APR?

Or did I do a calculation wrong somewhere?

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November 19, 2013, 11:06:12 PM
 #29

so that projected profit of 5870 btc (it really takes 2K btc to run your exchange?) is divided by 100,000,000 shares?

That's .0000587 per share, at a value of .001, so like 5.87% APR?

Or did I do a calculation wrong somewhere?

Your Calculation based on those projections are right. But remember that the Blocks have a built in discount to them.

So the first block is 50% off, which will double the yield. We also look to increase overall unit value not just the dividends.

Thank you

Havelock Investments


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November 19, 2013, 11:09:48 PM
 #30

Expenses seem really high, what is 2K BTC being spent on.  Are their salaries on top of the 75% that is being held by owners?

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
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November 19, 2013, 11:11:04 PM
 #31

Your Calculation based on those projections are right. But remember that the Blocks have a built in discount to them.

So the first block is 50% off, which will double the yield. We also look to increase overall unit value not just the dividends.
even at 11% APR, it's not very attractive.  Is our investment secured or anything?  Why such a low return?  A security like this is very high risk.

And if you increase the value of the security (not sure how you can do that with 6% APR), then the APR will decrease.

Am I missing something?  Why should we loan you bitcoins for 6% APR?

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November 19, 2013, 11:21:59 PM
 #32

Your Calculation based on those projections are right. But remember that the Blocks have a built in discount to them.

So the first block is 50% off, which will double the yield. We also look to increase overall unit value not just the dividends.
even at 11% APR, it's not very attractive.  Is our investment secured or anything?  Why such a low return?  A security like this is very high risk.

And if you increase the value of the security (not sure how you can do that with 6% APR), then the APR will decrease.

Am I missing something?  Why should we loan you bitcoins for 6% APR?

 ^
This   
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November 19, 2013, 11:24:58 PM
 #33

Your Calculation based on those projections are right. But remember that the Blocks have a built in discount to them.

So the first block is 50% off, which will double the yield. We also look to increase overall unit value not just the dividends.
even at 11% APR, it's not very attractive.  Is our investment secured or anything?  Why such a low return?  A security like this is very high risk.

And if you increase the value of the security (not sure how you can do that with 6% APR), then the APR will decrease.

Am I missing something?  Why should we loan you bitcoins for 6% APR?

Thank you for your comment,

Most emerging growth companies do not pay a dividend. Companies that are not able to grow their core business offer a dividend as they will not need to reinvest their profits. We choose to offer a dividend to our unit holders. Over the next couple of years we are looking to increase our core revenue. As our revenue increases so would the value of our units. A dividends yield is not the first issue you should look into when purchasing emerging growth companies.

We appreciate your time looking into our Fund Offering.

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 11:25:08 PM
 #34

I understand thee business is registered and operates in Panama but the operators are in Canada correct? What is the projected legal environment for BTC in Canada fr the next few years?
 
Also, what's the word on the street in regards to competing exchanges???

Are you very confident you will not go the way of BTC.CO in one calendar year? I also point out that Burnside initially wasn't worried cause BTC.CO was in Panama for him too, but he got scared legally at home and shut down...

Not a detractor, I am rooting for a stable xchange....
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November 19, 2013, 11:29:23 PM
 #35

I understand thee business is registered and operates in Panama but the operators are in Canada correct? What is the projected legal environment for BTC in Canada fr the next few years?
 
Also, what's the word on the street in regards to competing exchanges???

Are you very confident you will not go the way of BTC.CO in one calendar year? I also point out that Burnside initially wasn't worried cause BTC.CO was in Panama for him too, but he got scared legally at home and shut down...

Not a detractor, I am rooting for a stable xchange....

The business is 100% In Panama!


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November 19, 2013, 11:35:03 PM
 #36

To clarify,

We have enough funds to run HavelockInvestments.com and are not looking for any of our users to lend us or provide us with any Capital for our operations.
That is why we only offer 5% of the Company.

This Fund is offered as a way for our loyal users to participate in any profits derived from the operations of the HavelockInvestments.com website.

We want the Bitcoin community to participate with us in this growing venture.

Join us in Funding the next generation of Bitcoin Empowered Business!

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 19, 2013, 11:35:33 PM
 #37

I always hate the rushed feeling of all this. Documents are released to the public, and 24 hours after that the fund goes live. That's never enough time for an investor to make a calculated decision on whether or not investing is a good idea. Add in the "Get it while we offer at a 50% discount" attitude and everything starts to blend in with the other quickly thrown together short-lived ventures.

I'm not saying Havelock doesn't know what they're doing or that this isn't any less legitimate than I think it is...just more of a "I wouldn't do it this way for various reasons" kind of thing.  Cheesy

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November 19, 2013, 11:42:32 PM
 #38

To clarify,

We have enough funds to run HavelockInvestments.com and are not looking for any of our users to lend us or provide us with any Capital for our operations.
That is why we only offer 5% of the Company.

This Fund is offered as a way for our loyal users to participate in any profits derived from the operations of the HavelockInvestments.com website.

We want the Bitcoin community to participate with us in this growing venture.

Join us in Funding the next generation of Bitcoin Empowered Business!

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Oh how generous of you guys. Why dont you give away the 5% of the company but rather want close to 5milion$ for it ? At least be honest about what you are doing this forum/community went through enough BS last few months
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November 20, 2013, 12:44:45 AM
 #39

You value your Panamanian website, the spelling of which you yourself are yet to master, at 100,000 BTC?! 100K BTC?  Over 600 million dollars at current prices?  Could you doublecheck your calculations to make sure a few extra zeros haven't been tacked on by mistake?  I understand that occasionally happens when dealing with large numbers.
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November 20, 2013, 01:25:43 AM
 #40

Honestly, if anything, this just turns me off of Havelock.
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November 20, 2013, 01:30:10 AM
 #41

You value your Panamanian website, the spelling of which you yourself are yet to master, at 100,000 BTC?! 100K BTC?  Over 600 million dollars at current prices?  Could you doublecheck your calculations to make sure a few extra zeros haven't been tacked on by mistake?  I understand that occasionally happens when dealing with large numbers.

Hi Crumbs,

At ~$600 the current Bitcoin/Fiat rate BTC100,000 = $60,000,000   Not the $600 Million referenced above!

Could you please clarify where we may have made a mistake. We appreciate you input.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 20, 2013, 01:50:15 AM
Last edit: November 20, 2013, 02:03:38 AM by crumbs
 #42

You value your Panamanian website, the spelling of which you yourself are yet to master, at 100,000 BTC?! 100K BTC?  Over 600 million dollars at current prices?  Could you doublecheck your calculations to make sure a few extra zeros haven't been tacked on by mistake?  I understand that occasionally happens when dealing with large numbers.

Hi Crumbs,

At ~$600 the current Bitcoin/Fiat rate BTC100,000 = $60,000,000   Not the $600 Million referenced above!

Could you please clarify where we may have made a mistake. We appreciate you input.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Oh, thank goodness *I* am not trying to float a mlti-million dollar company.  Imagine how embarrassing that sort of a slip-up would have been?
Oh, wait...  You don't have to imagine.
*If you would like your other mistakes clarified, i'm eager to help a fellow tinkerer in this open source economy.
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November 20, 2013, 02:36:14 AM
 #43

What is the capital to be raised in this IPO needed for?
New house, car, vocation, luxury, what else.. oh,  better customer service  Wink
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November 20, 2013, 03:00:24 AM
 #44

What is the capital to be raised in this IPO needed for?
New house, car, vocation, luxury, what else.. oh,  better customer service  Wink

Bingo.
This is why I am entirely turned off by this enterprise.
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November 20, 2013, 09:47:43 AM
 #45

Come on guys, they just want $60 MILLION DOLLARS to play with. What's the big deal? Cheesy
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November 20, 2013, 02:43:54 PM
 #46

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

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November 20, 2013, 02:47:29 PM
 #47

I always hate the rushed feeling of all this. Documents are released to the public, and 24 hours after that the fund goes live. That's never enough time for an investor to make a calculated decision on whether or not investing is a good idea. Add in the "Get it while we offer at a 50% discount" attitude and everything starts to blend in with the other quickly thrown together short-lived ventures.

I'm not saying Havelock doesn't know what they're doing or that this isn't any less legitimate than I think it is...just more of a "I wouldn't do it this way for various reasons" kind of thing.  Cheesy
+1

The only reason I can think of for such a hurry, is that they hope for someone panic-buying without giving it much attention.

Of course if there is a better reason I wasn't able to think of, I'd be happy!

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November 20, 2013, 02:50:16 PM
 #48

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

Since when do securities offer insurance?  Investing is a risk, if you don't want to take on the risk fine but its kinda funny that you require a safety net.   Do venture capitalists ask for insurance?  Did people investing in google when it came out demand insurance?  You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".  You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.
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November 20, 2013, 03:05:55 PM
 #49

crazy!

the numbers are outright insulting..

the market aint big enough to make your site worth that much

think about it guys.. this is nuts -- just hold your bitcoins tight
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November 20, 2013, 03:07:57 PM
 #50

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

Since when do securities offer insurance?  Investing is a risk, if you don't want to take on the risk fine but its kinda funny that you require a safety net.   Do venture capitalists ask for insurance?  Did people investing in google when it came out demand insurance?  You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".  You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.

Lol, hurry up and GET IN THE VAN!

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November 20, 2013, 03:18:10 PM
 #51

Do venture capitalists ask for insurance? 
for the amount of money we are giving them, we would get more than 5% ownership if we were venture capitalists.  We'd also get a bigger chunk of the profits.

You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
what potential growth?  Even their own optimistic estimates put this at 6% APR with 50 new listings a year.  The investors here are taking ALL the risk and getting very little in return.

You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".
For the level of risk with this venture, we should be getting a bigger cut for us effectively loaning them our money.  Look at the other securities with similar risk profiles.  The APR is 30% or more.

I mean, 2 of their competitors closed within the last 2 months, and both competitors were considerably larger, had significantly more users/listings, had better service, had better interfaces/platforms, and they STILL closed.  What does HL bring to the market?  "We're not closed... yet"  In every single way, they offer an inferior service to those that have shut down.

On the subject of risk and some sort of mitigation for that risk, look at XBOND, they are paying 17% and have considerably less risk than this security.

Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.
Adults do the math, and when it doesn't add up, they ask questions.  I know you're new here, so I'll let that one slide, but you should really be asking questions, not jumping on those that do.

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November 20, 2013, 03:29:11 PM
 #52

Do venture capitalists ask for insurance? 
for the amount of money we are giving them, we would get more than 5% ownership if we were venture capitalists.  We'd also get a bigger chunk of the profits.

You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
what potential growth?  Even their own optimistic estimates put this at 6% APR with 50 new listings a year.  The investors here are taking ALL the risk and getting very little in return.

You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".
For the level of risk with this venture, we should be getting a bigger cut for us effectively loaning them our money.  Look at the other securities with similar risk profiles.  The APR is 30% or more.

I mean, 2 of their competitors closed within the last 2 months, and both competitors were considerably larger, had significantly more users/listings, had better service, had better interfaces/platforms, and they STILL closed.  What does HL bring to the market?  "We're not closed... yet"  In every single way, they offer an inferior service to those that have shut down.

On the subject of risk and some sort of mitigation for that risk, look at XBOND, they are paying 17% and have considerably less risk than this security.

Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.
Adults do the math, and when it doesn't add up, they ask questions.  I know you're new here, so I'll let that one slide, but you should really be asking questions, not jumping on those that do.

Wow, thanks for proving to everyone you have no clue about investing.  6% APR is the dividends...which few if any startups ever pay.  You think the early investors demanded google to start paying dividends or rightly re-investing profits into the business.   The investor's return comes in the form of CAPITAL GAINS. You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.


You'll let that one slide?  OH THANK YOU HAVE MERCY.  You have allowed me to exist.
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November 20, 2013, 03:36:21 PM
 #53

...
You'll let that one slide?  OH THANK YOU HAVE MERCY.  You have allowed me to exist.

Whose sock are you, anyway?  You registered yesterday just to shill for this absurdity?
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November 20, 2013, 03:39:47 PM
 #54

Thank you for all that have contacted us and showed us your support, we truly appreciate it.

Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio.

We believe in Bitcoin for the long term. We operate at the Bitcoin to Bitcoin ratio. The people in our team would continue to work with Bitcoin if it was worth $1, $10 or $1000. The same way that a business in Europe calculates its revenue based in EURO and another business in China in Yuan, we value our company in Bitcoins.

We don't believe that anyone is able to predict what the price of Bitcoin would be in FY2014, that is why we operate only in Bitcoins. It is a must for our type of business.

All of our Team members including even the Landlord have agreed to accept Bitcoin as payment, regardless of its ratio.

We believe that in order to run a successful Bitcoin business, a company can not change its rates based on external prices of what Bitcoin is worth today, tomorrow or next year.

WE are not in business of Fiat or in exchanging anything into Fiat. We only handle Bitcoins, and we believe that other Bitcoin companies should follow the same model if Bitcoin is to become a hard currency where it is not only used as a Stock, but used the same way that we all use the USD, EUR or JPY.

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.

Once again we appreciate all of the great feedback we have received and are looking forward to serving the needs of the companies we manage and the users we serve.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 20, 2013, 03:58:39 PM
 #55

6% APR is the dividends...which few if any startups ever pay.  You think the early investors demanded google to start paying dividends or rightly re-investing profits into the business.   The investor's return comes in the form of CAPITAL GAINS. You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.
maybe you should browse through the "stocks" listed on HL to see their dividends and APR rates.

This is bitcoin, not USD regulated markets, so the risk is considerably higher.  And yes, here in the BTC securities market, we require high risk securities to offer faster and higher returns in exchange for the RISK LEVELS we are exposed to.  The risk with this particular security is EXTREMELY high because of the market they are in and they bring nothing new to the marketplace.

Where do the capital gains come from in this market?  Where is the flood of new securities to even meet the optimistic levels in the prospectus?  They claim a value of $60M USD?  seriously?  for a bad exchange website with a couple of lightly traded securities?  How in the hell are they going increase that value?

Comparing USD securities, like Google, to small BTC exchanges shows how little you know about this market.

You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.
No, I am looking for an investment with an appropriate profit/risk ratio. 

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November 20, 2013, 04:36:50 PM
 #56

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.
You are saying you are worth 100,000 BTC, which is completely unreasonable.  What did BTCT sell for or was selling for?  They had a lot more securities than you, a better platform and significantly more trust.  And even then, no one would value them at 100,000 BTC. 

What is the justification for the value listed? 

When the IPO is already starting out significantly overvalued and pays extremely low dividends with very high risk, there is no incentive to invest.

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November 20, 2013, 04:41:01 PM
 #57

Is it customary for a multi-million dollar registered business to withhold information such as the names of its owners/directors?  Can we at least get a link to your Facebook page or YouTube account?
The only info provided is a phone number resolving in Minnesota, USA.  Is this also typical for Panamanian corporations?
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November 20, 2013, 04:44:54 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2013, 05:12:36 PM by Peter Lambert
 #58

Thank you for all that have contacted us and showed us your support, we truly appreciate it.

Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio.

We believe in Bitcoin for the long term. We operate at the Bitcoin to Bitcoin ratio. The people in our team would continue to work with Bitcoin if it was worth $1, $10 or $1000. The same way that a business in Europe calculates its revenue based in EURO and another business in China in Yuan, we value our company in Bitcoins.

We don't believe that anyone is able to predict what the price of Bitcoin would be in FY2014, that is why we operate only in Bitcoins. It is a must for our type of business.

All of our Team members including even the Landlord have agreed to accept Bitcoin as payment, regardless of its ratio.

We believe that in order to run a successful Bitcoin business, a company can not change its rates based on external prices of what Bitcoin is worth today, tomorrow or next year.

WE are not in business of Fiat or in exchanging anything into Fiat. We only handle Bitcoins, and we believe that other Bitcoin companies should follow the same model if Bitcoin is to become a hard currency where it is not only used as a Stock, but used the same way that we all use the USD, EUR or JPY.

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.

Once again we appreciate all of the great feedback we have received and are looking forward to serving the needs of the companies we manage and the users we serve.


You still have to face the reality that bitcoin is a deflationary currency. It does not matter how you measure it: USD, EUR, gold, silver, man hours, acres of land in Manhattan; the value of a bitcoin is designed to go up over time. It may seem reasonable to charge 1 bitcoin for a listing now, but if the value of a bitcoin rises drastically then that amount will seem absurd to anybody considering listing on the exchange. So you will be forced to either lower the prices for your services or you will have less people utilize those services, either way we can expect the revenues measured in bitcoin to decrease over time.

This IPO seems overpriced to me. You can say you value the company at 100000 btc instead of 60000000 USD, but it means the same thing and is equally overvalued.

Is this a SatoshiDice style IPO where all the money generated from stock sales goes into the pockets of the current owners, or is this raising new capital for the company? What will the money be spent on?

Edit Wait, somebody said there are 100`000`000 units, but now I see there are 20`000`000 units listed, that is a big difference, could you clarify? Even with a market cap of only 20`000 btc, I think that is still overpriced.

And there seems to be some confusion over the price being listed as 0.005 vs 0.0005, there are still bid orders at 0.005, those people will be very sad to find out they bought at 10x the going price, maybe you should send out an email to all the people who received the announcement email stating that there was a mixup and they should change their bids?

Edit Edit: Ah, now I see, you are selling 25% of 20% of the company. Why not just say you are selling 5% of the company? Why make a distinction between the 80% you are not selling and the 15% which is not for sale?

What is the current sales volume per day for the site?

You expect to spend 300`000 USD each on law and accounting firms? You should really look into hiring your own lawyer and accountant and cut that cost way down!

If I am calculating right, using your numbers, you want a P/E of (100000/5870) = 17, like I said this seems a bit on the expensive side to me, for such a risky investment.

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November 20, 2013, 05:32:45 PM
 #59

If I am calculating right, using your numbers, you want a P/E of (100000/5870) = 17, like I said this seems a bit on the expensive side to me, for such a risky investment.
yeah, especially as they have never come close to those numbers nor provide any reason or methods on how they will achieve those levels of profit.  Do you see a flood of new securities lining up to sign up on HL?  I don't.

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November 20, 2013, 05:43:52 PM
 #60

Still looks like the ipo is getting eaten up pretty quick

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November 20, 2013, 05:46:47 PM
 #61

If I am calculating right, using your numbers, you want a P/E of (100000/5870) = 17, like I said this seems a bit on the expensive side to me, for such a risky investment.
yeah, especially as they have never come close to those numbers nor provide any reason or methods on how they will achieve those levels of profit.  Do you see a flood of new securities lining up to sign up on HL?  I don't.

Well, they did take some time off offering new securities while they addressed the legal issues, and there have been a couple IPO recently, maybe Havelock could give us a statement on the actual number of securities in the pipeline to get listed? The prospectus should also include some actual current data about usage rates, current sales, and the recent performance of the site.

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November 20, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
 #62

The values seem highly over evaluated and unreasonable.

Let's take a look at your mine source of income: trading fess.

You're currently facing around BTC250/day in volume. In your prospectus you're projecting BTC2,000/day in volume for Q1 (that's in less than 2 months). That's more than 8-times of today's volume. What did you smoke to come to this evaluation?

Going further: Your projection for the whole year is BTC1,260,000. You actually think that 10% of all bitcoin currently in circulation will flow through your site?

But even granting that your projection is fair with net profits of BTC5,870 for the first year, an evaluation of nearly BTC100,000 is absolutely insane.
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November 20, 2013, 06:06:18 PM
 #63

As it states in our Prospectus, there are currently 50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 20, 2013, 06:10:36 PM
 #64

As it states in our Prospectus, there are currently 50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014

Thank you,

Havelock Investments
BitFunder also had 39 funds listed. Most of them traded at sub BTC1 daily volume.

So you're basing all your numbers on these potential 50 funds. Is there any evidence that you can show us that these funds aren't made up?
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November 20, 2013, 06:34:18 PM
 #65

The values seem highly over evaluated and unreasonable.

Let's take a look at your mine source of income: trading fess.

You're currently facing around BTC250/day in volume. In your prospectus you're projecting BTC2,000/day in volume for Q1 (that's in less than 2 months). That's more than 8-times of today's volume. What did you smoke to come to this evaluation?

Going further: Your projection for the whole year is BTC1,260,000. You actually think that 10% of all bitcoin currently in circulation will flow through your site?

Aha, now there is some data we can use. (Havelock, can you confirm this number for the current trade volume?) So with a trade fee of .4%, that is 1.0 btc per day. That gives an income of 365 btc, (ignoring expenses at the moment) which would be a PE of 274.

Here is a suggestion: in the prospectus, put in three estimates of future performance, make the current estimate the "extremely good" projection, add two more projections with increasingly conservative estimates.


pascal257: remember that there is velocity to bitcoins, so the total trade volume can exceed the monetary base without any troubles. For example, if there is 1 coin in existence, I use it to buy your car and then you use it to buy my house, we have transacted 2 coins using a monetary base of just 1 coin.

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November 20, 2013, 06:35:37 PM
 #66

As it states in our Prospectus, there are currently 50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014
how many are legit, what is their market cap, expected volume, etc?  Where is the evidence that these actually exist? As stated already, your current volume is miniscule, and almost an order of magnitude away from what you hope it will be in 2 months.

And where are these funds coming from? How many of these funds were listed on the now defunct sites?

Cryptostocks has a lot of funds listed, dozens in fact, far more than your site, and yet, no one would seriously value their operation at 100,000 BTC.

Will any of the IPO money go towards making your site as good as the exchanges that have closed?  When will it be brought up to the level of bitfunder and/or BTCT?

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November 20, 2013, 06:37:03 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2013, 11:51:56 PM by statdude
 #67

I was trying to hold off from posting here, but must do so just on principle, to try to inform potential investors and put things in perspective.

I'm seeing a valuation of roughly BTC100000 = $50,000 million, with only a 6 page prospectus to back that up?

For starters, we know the market value of such an investment from Litecoinglobal. I believe it traded between 1-10mm USD roughly over the months, and I believe ended badly for all - and was probably way overvalued.

Considering the valuation, unprofessional and opaque prospectus, crappy projected PE/Ratio (17 is considered ok for a blue-chip company - not a micro cap), and dividend, with extremely high risks, I can't see how anyone can buy here.

First of all, it does not address fluctuations between btc/usd and how that will affect fees and volume.

"Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio."

This is bunk. Fluctuations will have an affect on your business. You are not bitcoin-only based, only mining is close that I know of. So, expenses/salaries will be the same if BTC = $2000? What if BTC = $20 again?  Look at Satoshi Dice - when bitcoin went 10x, did their volume hold in BTC? No, it remained stable in USD. Yet - you plan to pay expenses and salaries in bitcoin? Insane. BTC is not stable enough for this.

What is the point of listing 15 mm "restricted" units if they will not be sold?

Revenues:

So you're saying by end of next year, you'll have 150 funds on the site, paying $600+ USD in btc a month (at current rates) to be listed? I doubt that. What makes you think funds will continue to pay 1 btc as the price of btc continues to rise?

Let's say you increase number of paying funds to triple in a year (45) (btw why does it say 2012, and why are 50 funds paying 150 btc at the end of a year?) and earn ~360 btc in that way (seems high)

Lets say you triple trading volume through the next year, and thus manage to earn another ~830 btc in this way.

Finally, let's say these 30 new funds are able to raise 15,000 btc, earning you 750 btc (credit where credit is due, that is a smart business move on Havelock's part)

You've now managed to earn 1940 btc this year (barely equals your projected expenses in the form of "Office, Internet, Electrical, Law, Accounting, Compliance, and Miscellaneous") - My thoughts here, take from the example of other bitcoin companies, and pay for some of these unnecessary expenses out of your own 95% share of the dividends until you've exceeded your forecasts).

Even assuming zero expenses and high growth and these generous projections, not considering the high risk we've seen with Bitfunder, BTCT, etc, this values your company at somewhere around 5000-7000 btc, being generous across the board.

I think Havelock is a great platform, and I was excited to see the IVFO. Havelock is a great business, but this offers little upside for investors. What is driving ridiculous valuation, and sale? Speculators looking for a quick flip? Greed will burn everyone in the end when not used in moderation. MPEX trades at a similarly high valuation as far as I can tell, and I'm not sure why (haven't researched it, not gonna pay 30 btc to trade there)

Maybe I am wrong, we will see!

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November 20, 2013, 06:41:39 PM
 #68

well, 90% of cryptostocks listings are scam ;-)

As it states in our Prospectus, there are currently 50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014
how many are legit, what is their market cap, expected volume, etc?  Where is the evidence that these actually exist? As stated already, your current volume is miniscule, and almost an order of magnitude away from what you hope it will be in 2 months.

And where are these funds coming from? How many of these funds were listed on the now defunct sites?

Cryptostocks has a lot of funds listed, dozens in fact, far more than your site, and yet, no one would seriously value their operation at 100,000 BTC.

Will any of the IPO money go towards making your site as good as the exchanges that have closed?  When will it be brought up to the level of bitfunder and/or BTCT?

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November 20, 2013, 06:43:46 PM
 #69

pascal257: remember that there is velocity to bitcoins, so the total trade volume can exceed the monetary base without any troubles. For example, if there is 1 coin in existence, I use it to buy your car and then you use it to buy my house, we have transacted 2 coins using a monetary base of just 1 coin.
I was just putting things into perspective.
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November 20, 2013, 06:45:57 PM
 #70

well, 90% of cryptostocks listings are scam ;-)
at least 2/14 of HL listings are scams.

My point is that number of securities offered doesn't necessarily increase the value of the exchange.

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November 20, 2013, 06:48:11 PM
 #71

at least 3/10, but we are offtopic with that here

well, 90% of cryptostocks listings are scam ;-)
at least 2/14 of HL listings are scams.

My point is that number of securities offered doesn't necessarily increase the value of the exchange.

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November 20, 2013, 06:58:20 PM
 #72

I was talking about the securities listed on Havelock.

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November 20, 2013, 09:10:43 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2013, 10:27:51 PM by statdude
 #73

Let's put this in perspective:

1) "Israeli start-up Wix raises $127m in Nasdaq IPO"

Wix sets it's IPO at 700 million dollar market cap.

Wix is likely to have $150 million dollars in revenues- has 400 employees - and 40 million users

2) Havelock IPO's at 50 million dollar market cap (edited)

Havelock revenues Huh? Employees??? Users #???

Google "Build a Website" and you'll see Wix.

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November 20, 2013, 09:39:56 PM
 #74


Let's put this in perspective:

1) "Israeli start-up Wix raises $127m in Nasdaq IPO"
Wix sets it's IPO at 700 million dollar market cap.
Wix is likely to have $150 million dollars in revenues- has 400 employees - and 40 million users

2) Havelock IPO's at 440 million dollar market cap
Havelock revenues Huh? Employees??? Users #???
Is Havelock worth 2/3'rd of Wix.com?

Google "Build a Website" and you'll see Wix.


mmm, I think we already discussed the market cap is more like $60 million, not $440 million. But your argument still stands: how is this company possibly worth this many bitcoins?

I think it was Mircea Popescu who said there are two ways to value a company: how much money would it take to build the assets, and how much money would you get for selling all the assets. I don't think either of those valuations comes anywhere the millions they are asking here.

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November 20, 2013, 10:28:06 PM
 #75

Oops, good point.
Thanks - editing.

Looks like Have will raise 625 today for 1.25%, when the first wave sells out. .

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▀█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄█▀
  Website
    Twitter
      Gitlab
      Reddit
    Telegram
Whitepaper
  ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
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November 20, 2013, 11:01:25 PM
 #76

Seriously this all looks so weird, are we even dealing with the same people that were behind havelock before this panama business bought them? Or is this is just some sort of balant scam.
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November 20, 2013, 11:18:57 PM
 #77

Someone explain to potential investors what you guys are talking about with Havelock Scam? I heard they were great to due business with? Did the company sell to new mgmt? Do we(or the major trusted players running the legit companies) have real names here?

We need to use a type of "scientific" method,(Scammer Turing test) or at least best practice to make sure this doesn't turn into Labcoin 3.0.  Havelock also feel free to chime in to assuage our fears and tell us who has the real names in case the S hits the fan.
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November 20, 2013, 11:23:27 PM
 #78

Acquire a trusted name in the Bitcoin world on which you can list your own IPO without scrutiny, shortly after rush out an IPO, offer discounts for the first issue to encourage quick buying, only release info hours before IPO so people don't figure it out, take hundreds of coins & run off?

It does seem strange, and would be clever.  I really hope it's not the case.  Especially as I have (perhaps stupidly - we'll see), bought a few shares!
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November 20, 2013, 11:25:24 PM
 #79

Acquire a trusted name in the Bitcoin world on which you can list your own IPO without scrutiny, shortly after rush out an IPO, offer discounts for the first issue to encourage quick buying, only release info hours before IPO so people don't figure it out, take hundreds of coins & run off?

It does seem strange, and would be clever.  I really hope it's not the case.  Especially as I have (perhaps stupidly - we'll see), bought a few shares!

November 1, 2013 - Havelock Investments (HavelockInvestments.com), a leading Bitcoin Denominated Investment Fund, announced today that it has executed a definitive agreement to be acquired by The Panama Fund, S.A, a fully licensed and registered Panamanian Investment Company.

The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins.

With this acquisition HavelockInvestments.com will be able to maintain its current Funds, as well as expand its operations, while attracting new opportunities in the rapidly expanding Bitcoin Marketplace.

The original HavelockInvestments.com team will remain in place and will play a key role in the future growth of the company.

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November 20, 2013, 11:31:39 PM
 #80

Congrats on Phase 1 IPO selling out
 Wink
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November 20, 2013, 11:34:06 PM
 #81

Congrats on Phase 1 IPO selling out
 Wink

Thank you,

We appreciate all the support and the great feedback and input from all of the users of our website HavelockInvestments.com



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November 20, 2013, 11:35:53 PM
 #82

Congrats on Phase 1 IPO selling out
 Wink

Thank you,

We appreciate all the support and the great feedback and input from all of the users of our website HavelockInvestments.com




When can we start the trading?  Smiley
I bet you wanna achieve trading fees  Cheesy

I should have gotten into Bitcoin back in 1992...
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November 20, 2013, 11:39:53 PM
 #83

The original HavelockInvestments.com team will remain in place and will play a key role in the future growth of the company.

I very much hope this is the case and that Havelock + The Panama Fund are a combo that build a great company together.

Does the Panama Fund have a web site?

I'll also add my congratulations for the Phase 1 IPO sell out Smiley
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November 20, 2013, 11:45:40 PM
 #84

The original HavelockInvestments.com team will remain in place and will play a key role in the future growth of the company.

I very much hope this is the case and that Havelock + The Panama Fund are a combo that build a great company together.

Does the Panama Fund have a web site?

I'll also add my congratulations for the Phase 1 IPO sell out Smiley

The Panama Fund does not have a website since for the past 5 years it has acted as a Private Investment Company.
But Feel free to contact us at any time to find out more.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

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November 21, 2013, 12:02:21 AM
 #85

Could you please go ahead and elaborate on the concerns raised in this thread?
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November 21, 2013, 12:18:47 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2013, 12:52:00 AM by crumbs
 #86

Invest in a Panamanian shelf company with no history and no real names attached?  Into this: http://ohuiginn.net/panama/company/id/610201
What could possibly go wrong?*

*Taking into account that 90% of BTC-denominated securities turn out to be scams, 100% lose money, and...
...and the proprietor of this fine enterprise, while asking for millions of dollars, *won't even give you his name*.

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November 21, 2013, 02:56:52 AM
 #87

Why is an investment firm purchasing an asset only to try and raise an investment from other investors? What is 3600XBT to "The Panama Fund" and why can't they pony up 1.6 million dollars themselves. Seems Illogical.
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November 21, 2013, 09:20:34 AM
 #88

Seriously this all looks so weird, are we even dealing with the same people that were behind havelock before this panama business bought them? Or is this is just some sort of balant scam.
+1

they are either completely insane or definitely shady, and I'd opt for the latter.

This is quite sad, I was optimistic about HL when the notice of this Panama-based company buying it, but now it's clear they are in it just for some quick buck, deceiving potential investors...

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November 21, 2013, 09:24:13 AM
 #89

Why is an investment firm purchasing an asset only to try and raise an investment from other investors? What is 3600XBT to "The Panama Fund" and why can't they pony up 1.6 million dollars themselves. Seems Illogical.
Because "they want us to be part of their magic dream".
I.e. they are going to take the money and then kindly weep and apoligise when the dividends are shit, and the return of investment is pretty much never.
Or they are going to pay dividends using the funds they raised i.e. ponzi.

Obvious scam is obvious.

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November 21, 2013, 12:08:39 PM
 #90

Congrats on Phase 1 IPO selling out
 Wink

Thank you,

We appreciate all the support and the great feedback and input from all of the users of our website HavelockInvestments.com




When can we start the trading?  Smiley
I bet you wanna achieve trading fees  Cheesy

I think that without trading people are left in the dark regarding the market value of this share. Maybe this is intentional and they will not enable trading during the IPO. Anyway, I think that it would be fair if they at least stated when trading will start.
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November 21, 2013, 12:55:49 PM
 #91

Trading will commence once the IVFO is complete per our prospectus.

Over the past few months many of our users have contacted us and wanted a way for us to offer them a way to purchase, invest in our company. The best and fairest way was to offer our own Fund on our site.  The link to a "Shelf" company by crumbs is a defunct website that hasn't functioned in a couple of years. Go ahead and click on the links on that site and it would give you errors.  Also The Panama Fund is administered by a Law Firm here in Panama. The same Law Firm administers various other Investment companies, hence their names will be on the other companies as well. One of the partners in the Panama Fund will be traveling next week and will be in Vancouver, Canada. He will be setting up a meet up with anyone that would like to attend. Feel free to just pick up the phone and call us. How many Bitcoin business don't have a phone number, ours is on our contact us page.

Thank you,

HavelockInvestments.com

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November 21, 2013, 01:32:40 PM
 #92

Congrats on Phase 1 IPO selling out
 Wink

Thank you,

We appreciate all the support and the great feedback and input from all of the users of our website HavelockInvestments.com




When can we start the trading?  Smiley
I bet you wanna achieve trading fees  Cheesy

I think that without trading people are left in the dark regarding the market value of this share. Maybe this is intentional and they will not enable trading during the IPO. Anyway, I think that it would be fair if they at least stated when trading will start.

translated: i wanna flip shares!, y u trick me?

the joke is on everyone that bought these, in a month theyll be much cheaper too
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November 21, 2013, 02:02:56 PM
 #93

...The link to a "Shelf" company by crumbs is a defunct website that hasn't functioned in a couple of years. Go ahead and click on the links on that site and it would give you errors.  Also The Panama Fund is administered by a Law Firm here in Panama.

Not sure why data on a defunct website would be any less relevant, but I'll bite.
The site is not defunct.  Its index page was last updated less than two months ago.  The site's archives go back to September 2004, and its owner provides his full name.  You don't give us your name, just a throwaway phone number.

You go on to say that The Panama Fund is administered by "a Law Firm here in Panama."  You do not offer the name of the law firm.

I'm happy to help by offering you a way to establish a measure of credibility:
What is your name?
What is your involvement with Havelock?

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November 21, 2013, 02:08:46 PM
 #94

...The link to a "Shelf" company by crumbs is a defunct website that hasn't functioned in a couple of years. Go ahead and click on the links on that site and it would give you errors.  Also The Panama Fund is administered by a Law Firm here in Panama.

Not sure why data on a defunct website would be any less relevant, but I'll bite.
The site is by no means defunct.  If you bothered to open the index page, you would have known that it was last updated less than two months ago.  The site's archives go back to September 2004, and its owner provides his full name.  You don't give us your name, just a throwaway phone number.

You go on to say that The Panama Fund is administered by "a Law Firm here in Panama."  You do not offer the name of the law firm.

So, let's start establishing a measure of credibility.
What is your name?



It's defunct that it hasn't been updated since 2010, when the Database platform was changed in the public registry.

PANAMA LEGAL MANAGEMENT administrates The Panama Fund.

I also PM you with personal info. If you are in Panama or know someone that is we would love to have them visit our offices. 


Thank You
HavelockInvestments.com

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November 21, 2013, 02:33:35 PM
 #95

...The link to a "Shelf" company by crumbs is a defunct website that hasn't functioned in a couple of years. Go ahead and click on the links on that site and it would give you errors.  Also The Panama Fund is administered by a Law Firm here in Panama.

Not sure why data on a defunct website would be any less relevant, but I'll bite.
The site is by no means defunct.  If you bothered to open the index page, you would have known that it was last updated less than two months ago.  The site's archives go back to September 2004, and its owner provides his full name.  You don't give us your name, just a throwaway phone number.

You go on to say that The Panama Fund is administered by "a Law Firm here in Panama."  You do not offer the name of the law firm.

So, let's start establishing a measure of credibility.
What is your name?



It's defunct that it hasn't been updated since 2010, when the Database platform was changed in the public registry.

PANAMA LEGAL MANAGEMENT administrates The Panama Fund.

I also PM you with personal info. If you are in Panama or know someone that is we would love to have them visit our offices.  


Thank You
HavelockInvestments.com


Please refrain from sending me information via private messages.  Doing so avails you full deniability, puts me in an awkward position where i am unable to share this information with other potential investors, and is no way of conducting legitimate business.
A legitimate firm does not disburse essential corporate information through forum PMs.  Be kind enough to include it in your prospectus and post it in this thread.  

Regards

Edit:  Thus far, the info you have offered in your PM does not check out.
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November 21, 2013, 04:17:21 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2013, 06:18:25 PM by havelock
 #96


Please refrain from sending me information via private messages.  Doing so avails you full deniability, puts me in an awkward position where i am unable to share this information with other potential investors, and is no way of conducting legitimate business.
A legitimate firm does not disburse essential corporate information through forum PMs.  Be kind enough to include it in your prospectus and post it in this thread.  

Regards

Edit:  Thus far, the info you have offered in your PM does not check out.

Dear Crumbs,

Thank you for your input. We tried to reach out to you but have yet to receive any contact from you other then posting on this forum. If any potential individual would like to come visit us personally or call us directly. Here is our contact numbers:

Telephone Toll free Canada/USA: 1-866-305-1531 Edit: 1-866-978-8076
Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461







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November 21, 2013, 04:24:49 PM
 #97


Please refrain from sending me information via private messages.  Doing so avails you full deniability, puts me in an awkward position where i am unable to share this information with other potential investors, and is no way of conducting legitimate business.
A legitimate firm does not disburse essential corporate information through forum PMs.  Be kind enough to include it in your prospectus and post it in this thread.  

Regards

Edit:  Thus far, the info you have offered in your PM does not check out.

Dear Crumbs,

Thank you for your input. We tried to reach out to you but have yet to receive any contact from you other then posting on this forum. If any potential individual would like to come visit us personally or call us directly. Here is our contact numbers:

Telephone Toll free Canada/USA: 1-866-305-1531
Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.
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November 21, 2013, 04:39:08 PM
 #98


Please refrain from sending me information via private messages.  Doing so avails you full deniability, puts me in an awkward position where i am unable to share this information with other potential investors, and is no way of conducting legitimate business.
A legitimate firm does not disburse essential corporate information through forum PMs.  Be kind enough to include it in your prospectus and post it in this thread.  

Regards

Edit:  Thus far, the info you have offered in your PM does not check out.

Dear Crumbs,

Thank you for your input. We tried to reach out to you but have yet to receive any contact from you other then posting on this forum. If any potential individual would like to come visit us personally or call us directly. Here is our contact numbers:

Telephone Toll free Canada/USA: 1-866-305-1531
Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.


Wow... Thank you Crumbs, we were not aware, as we only applied and received this number in October, 2013 as we were setting up access for anyone from Canada/US to reach us.
That scam alert was posted on or about late 2011, about 2 years ago, and obviously

We really should have searched the number as well . Thank you for bringing this up to our attention. We will contact our local telephone carrier and request a new number right away.

We would love to reward your effort for bringing this to our attention. If you would like please provide us with a Bitcoin address.

Once again thank you so much!

HavelockInvestments.com

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November 21, 2013, 04:49:02 PM
 #99


Please refrain from sending me information via private messages.  Doing so avails you full deniability, puts me in an awkward position where i am unable to share this information with other potential investors, and is no way of conducting legitimate business.
A legitimate firm does not disburse essential corporate information through forum PMs.  Be kind enough to include it in your prospectus and post it in this thread.  

Regards

Edit:  Thus far, the info you have offered in your PM does not check out.

Dear Crumbs,

Thank you for your input. We tried to reach out to you but have yet to receive any contact from you other then posting on this forum. If any potential individual would like to come visit us personally or call us directly. Here is our contact numbers:

Telephone Toll free Canada/USA: 1-866-305-1531
Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.


Wow... Thank you Crumbs, we were not aware, as we only applied and received this number in October, 2013 as we were setting up access for anyone from Canada/US to reach us.
That scam alert was posted on or about late 2011, about 2 years ago, and obviously

We really should have searched the number as well . Thank you for bringing this up to our attention. We will contact our local telephone carrier and request a new number right away.

We would love to reward your effort for bringing this to our attention. If you would like please provide us with a Bitcoin address.

Once again thank you so much!

HavelockInvestments.com

Lol, no thanks.  Spend it on stepping up your game.
I have no problem with scams as a whole, it's your laziness and sloppiness that irks me.
Try to take pride in what you do, so that your victims could have the dignity of knowing that that they were scammed by a dedicated professional.
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November 21, 2013, 04:56:31 PM
 #100

Lol, no thanks.  Spend it on stepping up your game.
I have no problem with scams as a whole, it's your laziness and sloppiness that irks me.
Try to take pride in what you do, so that your victims could have the dignity of knowing that that they were scammed by a dedicated professional.

 Cheesy

...I like you.
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November 21, 2013, 05:29:14 PM
 #101

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between an outright attempt to scam and mere gross incompetence.

I can't tell you which one of these two alternatives applies in this particular case, but I don't believe it's worth my time -- or anybody's time -- even to bother analysing which alternative it might be.

The claimed financials are so transparently ludicrous it's not even funny.

And incidentally, it would be very easy to come up with those "50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014", each of which will be coughing up 12 BTC per annum in fees. All that takes is 600 BTC, which is easily covered by the initial tranche from running the HIF IPRO* itself -- presto, instantly visible revenues to reassure those "loyal users" and visionary early adopters. And naturally, if each of those 50 funds runs its own IPRO* to secure even just a fraction of the amount sucked up by first IPRO*, the whole thing could keep itself running long enough to generate quite the handsome payoff before collapsing.

*IPRO = Initial Public Rip-Off

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November 21, 2013, 05:57:01 PM
 #102

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between an outright attempt to scam and mere gross incompetence.

I can't tell you which one of these two alternatives applies in this particular case, but I don't believe it's worth my time -- or anybody's time -- even to bother analysing which alternative it might be.

The claimed financials are so transparently ludicrous it's not even funny.

And incidentally, it would be very easy to come up with those "50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014", each of which will be coughing up 12 BTC per annum in fees. All that takes is 600 BTC, which is easily covered by the initial tranche from running the HIF IPRO* itself -- presto, instantly visible revenues to reassure those "loyal users" and visionary early adopters. And naturally, if each of those 50 funds runs its own IPRO* to secure even just a fraction of the amount sucked up by first IPRO*, the whole thing could keep itself running long enough to generate quite the handsome payoff before collapsing.

*IPRO = Initial Public Rip-Off

Yeah, the whole thing stinks of either scam or ignorance/incompetence and the contract/prospectus is missing so much information as to be beyond a joke.
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November 21, 2013, 06:05:58 PM
 #103

Even if this isn't a scam, the return and terms are ridiculous for this market.  As soon as this is a real alternative, like Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever solution people come up with, Havelock will most certainly close.  They offer nothing new, and don't even meet the standards that other exchanges had (and even they closed).  The site is ridiculous from an user standpoint and is the biggest obstacle to user adoption.

So, the future of HL is fragile, at best, and paying 6% for that kind of risk is ludicrous.

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November 21, 2013, 06:21:06 PM
 #104

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever
Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.
I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

Regardless of your feelings about the solutions being presented, people are not flocking to Havelock and the proposed valuation is complete nonsense.

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November 21, 2013, 06:25:36 PM
 #105

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever
Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.
I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.


bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please


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November 21, 2013, 06:32:46 PM
 #106

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever
Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.
I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.


bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
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November 21, 2013, 06:39:32 PM
 #107

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..
so the market is flocking to centralized exchanges?

NB: Don't take that as an endorsement of HIF. Wink
yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and like I said, the proposed solutions are not ready, yet.  They currently are not a threat to exchanges, but it's obvious that the exchanges that currently exist (Havelock included) are not attracting a lot of users nor issuers that did exist on previous platforms.

That adds to the fact that HIF is a terrible investment with a LOT of risk.

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November 21, 2013, 06:42:38 PM
 #108

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever
Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.
I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.


bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

whats your point, people gon make things that do things, and people gon do things and maybe not other things?

thx bruh

this thread is for pointing out that HIF is a ripoff all on its own, can we stay on topic?




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November 21, 2013, 06:44:29 PM
 #109

but it looks like people want to get listed on Havelock.
what leads you to believe this?

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November 21, 2013, 06:45:31 PM
 #110

There's a lot of exchanges opening up (too many to keep track of actually) but it looks like people want to get listed on Havelock. I guess it gives a certain image. Now, if only they got rid of that stinky Labcoin passthrough...

Of the 14 securities being traded on this "exchange," two have a market cap of 1BTC (actually lower, but market cap doesn't have fractions Sad), and all but one stock have tanked.
What is that winning stock?  It's Havelock Investments Fund itself, floated yesterdy & not yet traded.  Give it a chance Smiley
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November 21, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
 #111


A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.


Quite an unfortunate randomly assigned phone number.  This is how all telecom providers work, they have a "pool" of numbers that they can recycle and give out to other clients after set periods of time.  Traditionally the turnover was a lot slower, but these days with VOIP, its easy to activate/remove toll free numbers with the click of a button and the providers end up turning over their pool more frequently.


https://www.canadianbitcoins.com for quick & easy buy/sell with $CAD
Canada's Oldest Bitcoin Brokerage.  Serving Canadian Bitcoiners since 2011!
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November 21, 2013, 08:13:28 PM
 #112


A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.


Quite an unfortunate randomly assigned phone number.  This is how all telecom providers work, they have a "pool" of numbers that they can recycle and give out to other clients after set periods of time.  Traditionally the turnover was a lot slower, but these days with VOIP, its easy to activate/remove toll free numbers with the click of a button and the providers end up turning over their pool more frequently.

One bit of ugliness could be written off as an unfortunate coincidence.  Every bit of this offering simply scrams "scam."  Considering BTC securities failure rate as a whole (none of the shares currently offered by Havelock are trading at a higher than issue price.  Two have collapsed.) and the opportunities presented by an anonymous exchange floating its own shares...  There's only one way this will end.
Regardless, this offering is simply too sloppily executed and poorly baited to be taken seriously.

Edit:  What's your current role in this offering?
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November 21, 2013, 08:47:08 PM
 #113

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever
Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.
I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.


bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

whats your point, people gon make things that do things, and people gon do things and maybe not other things?

thx bruh

this thread is for pointing out that HIF is a ripoff all on its own, can we stay on topic?

Did you read what I wrote? My point is that Havelock is in a field with a very low barrier to entry, so even though there are few competitors right now there will be new competitors in the future. Therefore, the risk of losing money on this is high. The proposed reward, even in a best case scenario, does not balance the risk. Therefore, this is severely overpriced.

Why are you getting so mad, I was agreeing with you!


[edit] It looks like you can decrease the number of active funds by 1, xbond is closing, which should lower the projected income.

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November 21, 2013, 09:07:44 PM
 #114

When you go on Havelock to the "Browse All Funds" section, there is a column labeled "IPO" and all the funds say "NO", shouldn't it say "YES" in the line with HIF?

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November 21, 2013, 09:22:33 PM
 #115

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".


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November 21, 2013, 09:48:18 PM
 #116

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

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November 21, 2013, 10:07:01 PM
 #117

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.



I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.


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November 21, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
 #118

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.



I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.
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November 22, 2013, 12:05:07 AM
 #119

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.



I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case. Smiley

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.


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November 22, 2013, 01:20:31 AM
 #120

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case. Smiley

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong Cheesy
As far as who's friedcat:  He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked Sad
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November 22, 2013, 01:47:02 AM
 #121

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case. Smiley

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong Cheesy
As far as who's friedcat:  He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked Sad

Do you do anything besides create FUD?
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November 22, 2013, 01:47:21 AM
 #122

Name one legit, profitable, legal company that has been around for more than a year that runs anonymously.
Name one legal financial company that remains open for more than a year and runs anonymously.

If this was a legal business, there would be an "about us" page with photos of the people who should be proud to running a legal bitcoin securities exchange.
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November 22, 2013, 01:48:59 AM
 #123

Name one legit, profitable, legal company that has been around for more than a year that runs anonymously.

If this was a legal shop, there would be an "about us" page with photos of the people who should be proud to running a legal bitcoin securities exchange.

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.
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November 22, 2013, 01:51:43 AM
 #124

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website. If you are in China, you might have to be anonymous or you might get canned like coingarden. Is this true in Panama?

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

I've read this too. However I'd still feel comfortable if they disclosed who they are.

Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?
Does Havelock have a business address/registration #?
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November 22, 2013, 02:00:01 AM
 #125

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website.

How is this not concerning?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.


Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?

Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.
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November 22, 2013, 02:04:29 AM
 #126

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner.  The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here.  So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense.  And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?
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November 22, 2013, 02:06:33 AM
 #127


A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

But they say that they are legal.
Quote
The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

What is the entirety of the legal basis for running this?
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November 22, 2013, 02:08:42 AM
 #128

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner.  The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here.  So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense.  And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.
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November 22, 2013, 02:10:46 AM
 #129


A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

But they say that they are legal.
Quote
The Panama Fund is a registered licensed Private Investment company that follows the regulations required in the jurisdiction in which we operate.
We worked hard with local regulators to find a Legal way to offer our Bitcoin Venture Capital Fund.
Unless new Laws are written or existing Laws are rewritten we will continue to operate as is.

What is the entirety of the legal basis for running this?

I don't know but asking a bunch of armchair "investors" is not going to give you the right answer.

But nobody has yet to point out any evidence that they are doing anything illegal/shady. Well besides crumbs.
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November 22, 2013, 02:10:50 AM
 #130


A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.


I understand your point. I'd just be much more at ease if the legal basis for operating was divulged. You don't need one to run a mining shop.

Understand that I can't just take anyone's word for it - "Yes we are legal". Well, how?
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November 22, 2013, 02:12:24 AM
 #131

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website.

How is this not concerning?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.


Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?

Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.

Utter nonsense.  Either you're sincerely clueless, or you're one of the hapless goofs who bought this fail hoping to flip.
Let me remind you that this is not AM.  Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.
This particular lotto ticket barely pays over face value when it wins, which is never.
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November 22, 2013, 02:14:19 AM
 #132

Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

Sorry, but I have not and will not invest in a company that runs anonymously; or at least isn't proud enough to show their name(s) on their website.

How is this not concerning?

A major feature of bitcoin is the fact that you can operate anonymously. AM since day one said they would be operating anonymously and investors knew this. Turns out AM was a hugely profitable company even though it is run anonymously.

My point is that anonymity is an option in the bitcoin world. We have seen through past experience that havelock and asicminer can both deliver without the need for names.

A major problem with having an exchange that is not run anonymously is the fact that you will need to comply with SEC regulations or they will come knocking eventually.

Also we know how hard it is to confirm identities on the internet and easy to fake them. Take a look at labcoin. A supposedly registered company under the name sam noi which many now believe is not a real person.


Does the Panama Fund have a company address/registration #?

Yes. Panama fund has been a registered exchange in panama since 2006 if I remember correctly.

Utter nonsense.  Either you're sincerely clueless, or you're one of the hapless goofs who bought this fail hoping to flip.
Let me remind you that this is not AM.  Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.
This particular lotto ticket barely pays over face value when it wins, which is never.


You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.
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November 22, 2013, 02:14:31 AM
 #133

Let me remind you that this is not AM.  Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.

This has to be taken into consideration. For every ASICMINER there have been, what, 10, 20 other securities that have failed, all of which were anonymous and had no reparations.

You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

Correct, but the burden of proof is up to the company looking for investor's money.
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November 22, 2013, 02:18:36 AM
 #134

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner.  The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here.  So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense.  And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.

You don't understand what "sold" means, do you?  When you sell something, you no longer own it.  The new owner may keep you on as hired help, but he sure isn't going to consult your ethics.  I'm afraid the track record's gone.  Under new management.

I'm far from alone in calling this a scam -- Deprived voiced a similar sentiment, offhand Smiley  Consider reading more than just the last post before typing.
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November 22, 2013, 02:22:43 AM
 #135

Let me remind you that this is not AM.  Just because you once bought a winning lotto ticket, don't start thinking that buying lotto is a smart way of making money.

This has to be taken into consideration. For every ASICMINER there have been, what, 10, 20 other securities that have failed, all of which were anonymous and had no reparations.

You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

Correct, but the burden of proof is up to the company looking for investor's money.

If you want more proof a good place to start would be havelock account: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=64492;sa=showPosts

You will notice how many conspiracy theories from crumbs that havelock has had to put to rest. It is no surprise that people like friedcat don't waste all their time answering endless amount of already answered questions.


Also if you want you can even call them at Telephone International/Panama: +507-832-2461

Or you could even visit their offices if you happen to be in panama. Crumbs should go fly down there and put the FUD to rest.


Quote
The Panama Fund, SA has been registered and licensed since 2008 with Superintendencia del Mercado de Valores (English: Superintendency of Securities Market)  as a Sociedades de Inversión Privadas (English: Private Investment Company).
http://www.supervalores.gob.pa/files/Sociedades/Sociedades_Inversion_Privada_DRA.pdf
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November 22, 2013, 02:24:31 AM
 #136

...
You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

You're pitiably naive if you think that it's reasonable to give your money to strangers unless i prove, to your satisfaction, that they are scammers.  Most adults play thing differently -- they don't hand over their money *until the company proves its legitimacy*.
But hey -- buy buy buy Smiley
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November 22, 2013, 02:25:29 AM
 #137

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner.  The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here.  So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense.  And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.

You don't understand what "sold" means, do you?  When you sell something, you no longer own it.  The new owner may keep you on as hired help, but he sure isn't going to consult your ethics.  I'm afraid the track record's gone.  Under new management.

I'm far from alone in calling this a scam -- Deprived voiced a similar sentiment, offhand Smiley  Consider reading more than just the last post before typing.

I don't even need to respond to your conspiracy theories. Anyone can just look at havelocks post history and count the number of your conspiracy theories he has had to respond to.

I would just love to know what exactly you do here in the securities forum? You clearly don't invest in any of these companies because to you they are all scams.
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November 22, 2013, 02:27:37 AM
 #138

...
You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

You're pitiably naive if you think that it's reasonable to give your money to strangers unless i prove, to your satisfaction, that they are scammers.  Most adults play thing differently -- they don't hand over their money *until the company proves its legitimacy*.
But hey -- buy buy buy Smiley

I dare you to go down to panama and visit their offices like havelock suggested you do. You will probably find a registered private exchange doing exactly everything havelock said. Or you would find an empty office and their "scam" would collapse. Either way you wont do it because you would much rather use your "reasoning".
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November 22, 2013, 02:33:19 AM
 #139

...
Asicminer. Case closed. Not to mention havelock has been around for more than a year and runs anonymously... Although I suppose it is no longer anonymous as it was aquired by the panama fund which has to be registered to someones name.

If Havelock was indeed sold, it goes to reason that the new owner != the old owner.  The new owner, a Panamanian shelf company, has no track record here.  So your allusion to "more than a year" is simply nonsense.  And jimmothy, since you obviously know nothing about The Panama Fund, why the attitude?

FUD and more FUD.

Havelocks entire team merged with the panama fund team so new owner = old+new.

No track record according to that site which I have no idea what it is. It is known that panama fund is a private investment company. Meaning no public website or public trading.

Crumbs literally the only person coming up with these conspiracy theories daily is you. It is time you take a break.

You don't understand what "sold" means, do you?  When you sell something, you no longer own it.  The new owner may keep you on as hired help, but he sure isn't going to consult your ethics.  I'm afraid the track record's gone.  Under new management.

I'm far from alone in calling this a scam -- Deprived voiced a similar sentiment, offhand Smiley  Consider reading more than just the last post before typing.

I don't even need to respond to your conspiracy theories. Anyone can just look at havelocks post history and count the number of your conspiracy theories he has had to respond to.

I would just love to know what exactly you do here in the securities forum? You clearly don't invest in any of these companies because to you they are all scams.

Jimmothy, i hate repeating this, but you insist:
Thus far, if you have invested in bitcoin securities, you are either deeply regretting it, or you're a raving lunatic. I want scammers and idiots to stop shitting up my bitcoin. I'm tired of being embarrassed to admit to being a bitcoiner.  I'm tired of people assuming that i'm someone ... like you.
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November 22, 2013, 02:37:40 AM
 #140

...
You have literally no evidence that panama fund SA is not a legit company. Besides your own speculation and reasoning based on your intense googling skills.

You're pitiably naive if you think that it's reasonable to give your money to strangers unless i prove, to your satisfaction, that they are scammers.  Most adults play thing differently -- they don't hand over their money *until the company proves its legitimacy*.
But hey -- buy buy buy Smiley

I dare you to go down to panama and visit their offices like havelock suggested you do. You will probably find a registered private exchange doing exactly everything havelock said. Or you would find an empty office and their "scam" would collapse. Either way you wont do it because you would much rather use your "reasoning".

Jimothy, you just don't understand how life works.  The burden of proof is always on the guy with his hand reaching for my pocket, not the other way around.  If you want to make the trip worth my while, pay my air fair, expenses, plus a nominal consideration for my time, please shoot me an offer.  I will consider it Smiley
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November 22, 2013, 02:38:12 AM
 #141

Jimmothy, i hate repeating this, but you insist:
Thus far, if you have invested in bitcoin securities, you are either deeply regretting it, or you're a raving lunatic. I want scammers and idiots to stop shitting up my bitcoin. I'm tired of being embarrassed to admit to being a bitcoiner.  I'm tired of people assuming that i'm someone ... like you.

Unless you invested in AM or one of the other companies that did not fail... Why are you wasting your time here? Your conspiracy theories that are constantly addressed and put to rest contribute nothing besides FUD.

You will notice you are in fact alone in all your conspiracy theories.
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November 22, 2013, 02:39:09 AM
 #142

Jimothy, you just don't understand how life works.  The burden of proof is always on the guy with his hand reaching for my pocket, not the other way around.  If you want to make the trip worth my while, pay my air fair, expenses, plus a nominal consideration for my time, please shoot me an offer.  I will consider it Smiley

Besides the fact that there is plenty of proof. Anyone interested could take a look at havelock's post history.
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November 22, 2013, 02:42:47 AM
 #143

Jimmothy, i hate repeating this, but you insist:
Thus far, if you have invested in bitcoin securities, you are either deeply regretting it, or you're a raving lunatic. I want scammers and idiots to stop shitting up my bitcoin. I'm tired of being embarrassed to admit to being a bitcoiner.  I'm tired of people assuming that i'm someone ... like you.

Unless you invested in AM or one of the other companies that did not fail... Why are you wasting your time here? Your conspiracy theories that are constantly addressed and put to rest contribute nothing besides FUD.

You will notice you are in fact alone in all your conspiracy theories.

Jimothy, no matter how many times you repeat "conspiracy theories," no matter how you underline it, you're still dead wrong.
As i have said before, just because there are people who won the lotto, it does not mean that "investing" in lottery tickets is smart.  It's not.  Only idiots and suckers do it.  Please stop.  I hate feeling sorry for people.
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November 22, 2013, 02:44:49 AM
 #144

Jimmothy, i hate repeating this, but you insist:
Thus far, if you have invested in bitcoin securities, you are either deeply regretting it, or you're a raving lunatic. I want scammers and idiots to stop shitting up my bitcoin. I'm tired of being embarrassed to admit to being a bitcoiner.  I'm tired of people assuming that i'm someone ... like you.

Unless you invested in AM or one of the other companies that did not fail... Why are you wasting your time here? Your conspiracy theories that are constantly addressed and put to rest contribute nothing besides FUD.

You will notice you are in fact alone in all your conspiracy theories.

Jimothy, no matter how many times you repeat "conspiracy theories," no matter how you underline it, you're still dead wrong.
As i have said before, just because there are people who won the lotto, it does not mean that "investing" in lottery tickets is smart.  It's not.  Only idiots and suckers do it.  Please stop.  I hate feeling sorry for people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

Changing your reasons to call havelock a scam every week is exactly how conspiracy theories work. As soon as more evidence is revealed, a new theory from you will pop up until yet again it has to be disproven.
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November 22, 2013, 02:45:32 AM
 #145

Jimothy, you just don't understand how life works.  The burden of proof is always on the guy with his hand reaching for my pocket, not the other way around.  If you want to make the trip worth my while, pay my air fair, expenses, plus a nominal consideration for my time, please shoot me an offer.  I will consider it Smiley

Besides the fact that there is plenty of proof. Anyone interested could take a look at havelock's post history.

Bro, you're not even trying.  Would someone who ran a reputable business misspell its name in the prospectus?  Twice?!  In two different alternative spellings?!!  Cheesy

Edit:  Now you're just spamming.  Goodbye. Smiley
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November 22, 2013, 02:48:08 AM
 #146

Jimothy, you just don't understand how life works.  The burden of proof is always on the guy with his hand reaching for my pocket, not the other way around.  If you want to make the trip worth my while, pay my air fair, expenses, plus a nominal consideration for my time, please shoot me an offer.  I will consider it Smiley

Besides the fact that there is plenty of proof. Anyone interested could take a look at havelock's post history.

Bro, you're not even trying.  Would someone who ran a reputable business misspell its name in the prospectus?  Twice?!  In two different alternative spellings?!!  Cheesy

I'm not trying because it is clearly a waste of time. Next you will be telling me because havelock is not wearing matching socks they are definitely a scam.

Conspiracy theories don't ever disappear, they just keep changing and adapting to the new info given.

Goodbye. Smiley
On behalf of everyone in this subforum, thank you and don't come again.
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November 22, 2013, 10:43:41 AM
 #147

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case. Smiley

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong Cheesy
As far as who's friedcat:  He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked Sad

Do you do anything besides create FUD?
FUD?!?

He's warning you, but you are free to gift your money to scammers, np.

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November 22, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
 #148

All you people on this forum are insane to trust a whole currency created by some anonymous guy. Seems WAY too shady. Please provide me the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto or I call this whole Bitcoin business a huge scam. TYVM!


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Lohoris
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November 22, 2013, 10:56:24 AM
 #149

crumbs, please stop feeding the troll.

he is either trolling or is hopelessly stupid.

who wanted to read the truth can do it, who wants to throw his money to scammers will do it anyway,  no point in continuing this.

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November 22, 2013, 11:09:54 AM
 #150

crumbs, please stop feeding the troll.

he is either trolling or is hopelessly stupid.

who wanted to read the truth can do it, who wants to throw his money to scammers will do it anyway,  no point in continuing this.

You are the one who has been trolling this thread from the very beginning. I've just checked your posting history in this thread. Your first post in this thread is a complaint regarding their listing fees. Based on this complaint alone, it's pretty safe to say you are totally clueless on some many levels.

The Havelock listing fee was 5BTC prior to being acquired by Panama Fund. It is now 1BTC. In the meantime I advise you to go check the Nasdaq listing fees and fees paid to the underwriters.


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November 22, 2013, 11:11:49 AM
 #151

All you people on this forum are insane to trust a whole currency created by some anonymous guy. Seems WAY too shady. Please provide me the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto or I call this whole Bitcoin business a huge scam. TYVM!

Seriously. Lets all stop using bitcoins because of anonymity.

Why come to a forum where it is well known and accepted to work with anonymity and complain that they are anonymous??

That is besides the fact that havelock is no longer anonymous after over a year of bullshitless operating and anyone wanting to find out real info about them can fly down to their offices or even just call them.

Or we could just create FUD based on speculation.

Quote from: crumbs
As i have said before, just because there are people who won the lotto, it does not mean that "investing" in lottery tickets is smart

Essentially what you are doing is going to a forum for lottery tickets and telling everyone there how stupid they are for playing the lotto..
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November 22, 2013, 11:52:57 AM
 #152

All you people on this forum are insane to trust a whole currency created by some anonymous guy. Seems WAY too shady. Please provide me the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto or I call this whole Bitcoin business a huge scam. TYVM!

Lol, you really don't understand life in general, do you?  People don't use bitcoin because they trust Satoshi.  They use it because they understand hash functions, they understand that thus far, SHA 256 (created by U.S. National Security Agency) and the bitcoin network as a whole have not been shown to have any easily exploitable flaws.

The aforementioned, of course, does not imply that you can throw your coin at anyone who ask for it, and shit will magically work out.
This is bitcoin, not Equestria Smiley
If you think bitcoin scams are not possible, you're in the wrong neighborhood.
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November 22, 2013, 12:00:47 PM
 #153

All you people on this forum are insane to trust a whole currency created by some anonymous guy. Seems WAY too shady. Please provide me the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto or I call this whole Bitcoin business a huge scam. TYVM!

Lol, you really don't understand life in general, do you?  People don't use bitcoin because they trust Satoshi.  They use it because they understand hash functions, they understand that thus far, SHA 256 (created by U.S. National Security Agency) and the bitcoin network as a whole have not been shown to have any easily exploitable flaws.

The aforementioned, of course, does not imply that you can throw your coin at anyone who ask for it, and shit will magically work out.
This is bitcoin, not Equestria Smiley
If you think bitcoin scams are not possible, you're in the wrong neighborhood.

But we are not talking about some random guy asking for money. We are talking a well established bitcoin exchange merged with a legally registered private investment company in panama which is not anonymous meaning they cannot just take the coins and run as there are names to be held accountable. Anyone could find out more info if they want by looking at havelocks history or contacting them on the forums/phone/in person at their offices.

As for crumbs this is the last time I will reply to your FUD. As you contribute nothing I have to add you to the ignore list.
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November 22, 2013, 12:45:24 PM
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But we are not talking about some random guy asking for money. We are talking a well established bitcoin exchange merged with a legally registered private investment company in panama which is not anonymous meaning they cannot just take the coins and run as there are names to be held accountable. Anyone could find out more info if they want by looking at havelocks history or contacting them on the forums/phone/in person at their offices.

Can you please help those of us who think that this has the potential to be a scam to disprove this notion by pointing us to any evidence that the panama fund really exists?  I don't know anything about panama, but in the UK, you can look up registered companies & their directors. Can this be done for them?

This may not be a scam, but to see it as an impossibility without anything substantial to back it up this seems a bit naive.

If you hate people considering the possibility that this is a scam, please provide real information & reasoning to reduce suspicions.
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November 22, 2013, 12:54:24 PM
 #155


But we are not talking about some random guy asking for money. We are talking a well established bitcoin exchange merged with a legally registered private investment company in panama which is not anonymous meaning they cannot just take the coins and run as there are names to be held accountable. Anyone could find out more info if they want by looking at havelocks history or contacting them on the forums/phone/in person at their offices.

Can you please help those of us who think that this has the potential to be a scam to disprove this notion by pointing us to any evidence that the panama fund really exists?  I don't know anything about panama, but in the UK, you can look up registered companies & their directors. Can this be done for them?

This may not be a scam, but to see it as an impossibility without anything substantial to back it up this seems a bit naive.

If you hate people considering the possibility that this is a scam, please provide real information & reasoning to reduce suspicions.


Read havelocks post history. All the info is there.
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November 22, 2013, 01:03:18 PM
 #156

Read havelocks post history. All the info is there.
If it is possibly a scam, you can't simply trust the potential scammer - you need external evidence to give confidence.
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November 22, 2013, 02:47:33 PM
 #157

I've been trying very hard to stay out of this, umm, "discussion", but just wanted to chime in... no, this is not troll food, so please, trolls, pay no attention.

You've all trusted Havelock Investments for over a year, you could come to our office and talk with us, you could pick up the phone and call us.. and _many_ of you did.  When the Panama Fund acquired Havelock Investments from the original owners (myself and my business partner), we made sure to vette the purchaser (who we already had a pre-existing business relationship with) and required them to have contact information available.  One of the reasons you trusted Havelock to begin with was because we were a bricks and mortar office with a real phone number at our real address manned by real people.  The same continues to apply today, whether its in Canada or Panama makes no difference.   If  you have doubt, please, call, visit the office, check out the new owners in "real life"... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum.   Taking part in securities (virtual or not) always requires you to do your own due diligence... actual due diligence. not just a few google searches.

James

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November 22, 2013, 02:50:18 PM
 #158

I've been trying very hard to stay out of this, umm, "discussion", but just wanted to chime in... no, this is not troll food, so please, trolls, pay no attention.

You've all trusted Havelock Investments for over a year, you could come to our office and talk with us, you could pick up the phone and call us.. and _many_ of you did.  When the Panama Fund acquired Havelock Investments from the original owners (myself and my business partner), we made sure to vette the purchaser (who we already had a pre-existing business relationship with) and required them to have contact information available.  One of the reasons you trusted Havelock to begin with was because we were a bricks and mortar office with a real phone number at our real address manned by real people.  The same continues to apply today, whether its in Canada or Panama makes no difference.   If  you have doubt, please, call, visit the office, check out the new owners in "real life"... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum.   Taking part in securities (virtual or not) always requires you to do your own due diligence... actual due diligence. not just a few google searches.

James

People who did their due diligence figured out the company is horribly overvalued, and that the IPO was rushed.

Unless you can prove that there are 50 companies willing to pay 1 BTC/month during the next year?
Or explain how do you expect to spend 2000 BTC during 1 year?

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November 22, 2013, 03:40:33 PM
 #159

... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum. ...

Whoa James!  The "mom's basement" critique has been perfected in the rarefied would of international high finance Shocked
Now i see your power level is over 9000 -- ur all-pro Smiley

Since you're pitching this thing on the interwebs, home to lowly basement dwellers, might it not be a be more convenient to offer verifiable names & business records, or is an invitation to Panama the best you can offer?

Can i get an addy from you, or should i just ring you once i get through customs?

Also, is tomorrow a good time to stop by?  I'll be en route to Nigeria, where a prince has invited me to verify his legitimacy.
This is all so new and exciting for me!
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November 22, 2013, 03:43:15 PM
 #160

... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum. ...

Whoa James!  The "mom's basement" critique has been perfected in the rarefied would of international high finance Shocked
Now i see your power level is over 9000 -- ur all-pro Smiley

Since you're pitching this thing on the interwebs, home to lowly basement dwellers, might it not be a be more convenient to offer verifiable names & business records, or is a trip to Panama the best you can offer?
Can i get an addy from you, or should i just ring you once i get through customs?

Also, is tomorrow a good time to stop by?  I'll be en route to Nigeria, where a prince has invited me to verify his legitimacy.
This is all so new and exciting for me!

21 Concourse Gate. Unit 13. Ottawa, ON. K2E7S4. Feel free to stop by the old Havelock Office in Canada and say hi.  The new owners i believe have already extended that invitation to you at the new Panama office.

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November 22, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
 #161

People who did their due diligence figured out the company is horribly overvalued, and that the IPO was rushed.

Unless you can prove that there are 50 companies willing to pay 1 BTC/month during the next year?
Or explain how do you expect to spend 2000 BTC during 1 year?

+1

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November 22, 2013, 03:52:02 PM
 #162

... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum. ...

Whoa James!  The "mom's basement" critique has been perfected in the rarefied would of international high finance Shocked
Now i see your power level is over 9000 -- ur all-pro Smiley

Since you're pitching this thing on the interwebs, home to lowly basement dwellers, might it not be a be more convenient to offer verifiable names & business records, or is a trip to Panama the best you can offer?
Can i get an addy from you, or should i just ring you once i get through customs?

Also, is tomorrow a good time to stop by?  I'll be en route to Nigeria, where a prince has invited me to verify his legitimacy.
This is all so new and exciting for me!

21 Concourse Gate. Unit 13. Ottawa, ON. K2E7S4. Feel free to stop by the old Havelock Office in Canada and say hi.  The new owners i believe have already extended that invitation to you at the new Panama office.

LOLZ!!!  James, this is your 60 75 MILLION DOLLAR operation?  Is it a *safe neighborhood*? Cheesy

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November 22, 2013, 03:54:26 PM
 #163

I've been trying very hard to stay out of this, umm, "discussion", but just wanted to chime in... no, this is not troll food, so please, trolls, pay no attention.

You've all trusted Havelock Investments for over a year, you could come to our office and talk with us, you could pick up the phone and call us.. and _many_ of you did.  When the Panama Fund acquired Havelock Investments from the original owners (myself and my business partner), we made sure to vette the purchaser (who we already had a pre-existing business relationship with) and required them to have contact information available.  One of the reasons you trusted Havelock to begin with was because we were a bricks and mortar office with a real phone number at our real address manned by real people.  The same continues to apply today, whether its in Canada or Panama makes no difference.   If  you have doubt, please, call, visit the office, check out the new owners in "real life"... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum.   Taking part in securities (virtual or not) always requires you to do your own due diligence... actual due diligence. not just a few google searches.

James

Well you have to admit that this whole thing looks rushed and/or sloppy. Do you have a good reason why, for example, you didn't proofread your texts? While your operation might be legit you probably agree that one can expect the share prices and company name to be correct and that errors in such things are indeed a pretty big red flag.
If you have an explantion for the unprofessional start of your ipo beyond what basically amounts to "trust us" I would love to hear it.


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November 22, 2013, 03:55:47 PM
 #164

... if you're not willing to get off your ass and venture away from your computer chair in your parents basement, you probably shouldn't be in the Securities forum. ...

Whoa James!  The "mom's basement" critique has been perfected in the rarefied would of international high finance Shocked
Now i see your power level is over 9000 -- ur all-pro Smiley

Since you're pitching this thing on the interwebs, home to lowly basement dwellers, might it not be a be more convenient to offer verifiable names & business records, or is a trip to Panama the best you can offer?
Can i get an addy from you, or should i just ring you once i get through customs?

Also, is tomorrow a good time to stop by?  I'll be en route to Nigeria, where a prince has invited me to verify his legitimacy.
This is all so new and exciting for me!

21 Concourse Gate. Unit 13. Ottawa, ON. K2E7S4. Feel free to stop by the old Havelock Office in Canada and say hi.  The new owners i believe have already extended that invitation to you at the new Panama office.

LOLZ!!!  James, this is your 60 75 MILLION DOLLAR operation?  Is it a *safe neighborhood*? Cheesy


Not _my_ operation anymore, but yes the location is very safe. Not sure what you think you can tell from a google street view.

https://www.crimereports.com/map?CRSearch=21%20concourse%20gate%20ottawa%20on

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November 22, 2013, 04:04:20 PM
 #165

...
Not _my_ operation anymore, but yes the location is very safe. Not sure what you think you can tell from a google street view.

James, the Google Street View infused me with new confidence in your fine operation!  Plenty of parking Smiley  What's the monthly rate there, or do you pay by the week? Cheesy
P.S.  If the new owner & the company are both in Somalia Panama, why are you inviting me to Canada?  Is it a clever trap? Huh
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November 22, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
 #166

http://torresdelasamericas.com/2009/?langVar=en

Torres De Las Americas
Torre A
Punta Pacifica
Republic Of Panama


Please call +507-832-2461  to make an appointment and come and visit us.

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November 22, 2013, 04:39:50 PM
 #167

http://torresdelasamericas.com/2009/?langVar=en

Torres De Las Americas
Torre A
Punta Pacifica
Republic Of Panama


Please call +507-832-2461  to make an appointment and come and visit us.

Office number?  Or are you renting the entire tower?  Who should i ask for at the reception desk?
I asked you to spend the coin you have offered me on ramping up your game.  You obviously ignored me Angry

P.S.  You can visit me instead at the

Empire States Building
New York, New York
USA
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November 23, 2013, 01:08:51 AM
 #168

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!

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November 23, 2013, 01:16:17 AM
 #169

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!


FUD
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November 23, 2013, 01:55:24 AM
 #170

FUD

There is so much uncertainty around this that doubt is quite logical, and perhaps fear if you've already invested.

More information & transparency would improve the situation. Vagueness does not.
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November 23, 2013, 11:11:13 AM
 #171

I already asked this a couple days ago and was ignored.
Based on Havelocks response all their projected income is based on 50 funds which are "in the pipeline" for FY2014.

So I ask again, can you show us any evidence that these 50 funds exist and are not made up? You are basing your whole projection and thus your whole IPO on that. You should be able to provide some information.
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November 23, 2013, 11:26:59 AM
 #172

The IPO seems to be stalling.  Answering people's questions to justify projections & giving some verification that everything is legit would help I'm sure.

Why is this not happening when so much is at stake for the company?  It certainly isn't inspiring confidence.

I hope you can come through on this, but at the moment I'm not convinced (and nor are others, hence IPO apparently stalling).
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November 23, 2013, 02:14:10 PM
 #173

I already asked this a couple days ago and was ignored.
Based on Havelocks response all their projected income is based on 50 funds which are "in the pipeline" for FY2014.

So I ask again, can you show us any evidence that these 50 funds exist and are not made up? You are basing your whole projection and thus your whole IPO on that. You should be able to provide some information.
+1 Non of my questions have been answered, either.

And this this IPO launched, they lost at least 1 listing, so that should be considered, too.  How many listings will be lost in 2014?

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November 23, 2013, 04:53:04 PM
 #174

Just as a side note (related), have you guys read the SEC response to Senator Carper's inquiry?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/184579094/Virtual-Currency-Response-LettersFederal-Agencies-Respond-to-Homeland-Security-Committee-Questions-on-Digital-Currencies

Starts on page 13.

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November 23, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
 #175

So this IPO its almost stoped at 0.00066, I dont think it will sell at 1mB at this rate at all. At least open the trades, and you can make later another offer at market price. This its not going anywhere right now.
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November 23, 2013, 09:45:48 PM
 #176

So this IPO its almost stoped at 0.00066, I dont think it will sell at 1mB at this rate at all. At least open the flood gates, and you can make later another offer at market price. This its not going anywhere right now.

FTFY


See the problem with opening the trades (flood gates), is that traders going to undercut the IPO price and try to make a quick flip  Grin .

I bet you gotta wait until at least the second round finishes before they open up trading

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November 23, 2013, 09:56:16 PM
 #177

So this IPO its almost stoped at 0.00066, I dont think it will sell at 1mB at this rate at all. At least open the flood gates, and you can make later another offer at market price. This its not going anywhere right now.

FTFY




I bet you gotta wait until at least the second round finishes before they open up trading



I completely agree with you, thats what I was thinking. Because it will be tricky to do so at this stage. But I really doubt that people really are gonna commit to buying at 1mb, if this stage closes and they dont open the trades, or give any more information.
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November 23, 2013, 11:50:49 PM
 #178

As far as I know the IPO is only sucessful if all 4 rounds are sold.
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November 24, 2013, 01:23:08 AM
 #179

As far as I know the IPO is only sucessful if all 4 rounds are sold.


Four rounds!? I hope you're exaggerating

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November 24, 2013, 03:58:41 AM
 #180

As far as I know the IPO is only sucessful if all 4 rounds are sold.


Four rounds!? I hope you're exaggerating
Excuse me for using the wrong terminology. I meant blocks instead of rounds.

Quote
The schedule of the Blocks will be as follows:
November 20th, 2013 12 PM 1st Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 50% Discount    ฿0.0005 Per Unit = 625 BTC **SOLD OUT**
November 22nd, 2013       2nd Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 33% Discount         ฿0.00066 Per Unit = 825 BTC
*TBD 3rd Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a 25% Discount                                        ฿0.00075 Per Unit =  937.5 BTC
*TBD 4th Block 1,250,000 Units Offered at a face value                                            ฿0.001 Per Unit   = 1250 BTC
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November 24, 2013, 07:25:52 AM
 #181

So they could in theory just keep holding these blocks, and never let me trade?

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https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/WinnipegBitcoinSeller/

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Lohoris
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November 24, 2013, 10:22:47 AM
 #182

So they could in theory just keep holding these blocks, and never let me trade?
If the IPO is unsuccessful they would give the money back, or it would be a scam.
But... we've been telling you from the start that this whole operation is shady at best, you didn't listen...

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November 24, 2013, 03:50:01 PM
 #183

IPOs on Havelock have time limits. If this tranche doesn't sell it, it will probably be the last one. So much for the "discounted price", then.

Yeah, the good old "discounted price" scam.

If you want to sell 100 shares of something at 1 BTC it works like this:

1.  Announce you're selling 200 shares worth 2 BTC.
2.  Announce the first 100 will be sold at half-price.
3.  Rush it so noone has time to ask questions if they want to get in on the 'bargain' - you don't want them noticing that not only are your projections based on unsubstantiated estimates of future profits but that your math doesn't even work out IF your assumptions were correct.  Nor do you want anyone worrying about little missing details like existing assets, historical accounts etc.

You get to sell what you wanted at the price you wanted - and if you're really lucky some idiots even pay the 'full' price.  It worked for quite a few securities on Bitfunder (obviously the last blocks never sold out but the issuers raised plenty of BTC for selling near-worthless junk).
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November 24, 2013, 04:39:41 PM
 #184

IPOs on Havelock have time limits. If this tranche doesn't sell it, it will probably be the last one. So much for the "discounted price", then.

Yeah, the good old "discounted price" scam.

If you want to sell 100 shares of something at 1 BTC it works like this:

1.  Announce you're selling 200 shares worth 2 BTC.
2.  Announce the first 100 will be sold at half-price.
3.  Rush it so noone has time to ask questions if they want to get in on the 'bargain' - you don't want them noticing that not only are your projections based on unsubstantiated estimates of future profits but that your math doesn't even work out IF your assumptions were correct.  Nor do you want anyone worrying about little missing details like existing assets, historical accounts etc.

You get to sell what you wanted at the price you wanted - and if you're really lucky some idiots even pay the 'full' price.  It worked for quite a few securities on Bitfunder (obviously the last blocks never sold out but the issuers raised plenty of BTC for selling near-worthless junk).
+!, which makes me wonder, should I be selling everything I have and get out of Havelock securities altogether?  Because an IPO like this sure doesn't give me confidence in their exchange.

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November 24, 2013, 06:26:54 PM
 #185

+!, which makes me wonder, should I be selling everything I have and get out of Havelock securities altogether?  Because an IPO like this sure doesn't give me confidence in their exchange.
If I had any asset there, I would sell it to 0.
I only have a single share, though, so I can't really sell it, since its value is less than the minimum withdrawal :v

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November 24, 2013, 09:24:29 PM
 #186

If I had any asset there, I would sell it to 0.
I only have a single share, though, so I can't really sell it, since its value is less than the minimum withdrawal :v

what if the asset you have has a direct share system in place as a bit of insurance against this exchange failing?

At his point, I wouldn't invest in anything that didn't have a direct shares system already in place.

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November 25, 2013, 02:43:18 AM
 #187

Havelock has been pretty uncommunicative on this, pretty disappointing...

Can someone from Havelock please explain what will happen if the IPO is not fully subscribed? 

Seems pretty fraudulent if you either:
i. keep investor funds locked when the block sales are going nowhere, or
ii. stopped the rest of the subscription blocks, and allowed market trading of the shares already purchased (i.e. without fulfilling the terms of the prospectus by not selling all the tranches and screwing the initial investors by misleading them)
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November 25, 2013, 09:33:51 AM
 #188

what if the asset you have has a direct share system in place as a bit of insurance against this exchange failing?
Convert it to direct, then.

Remember that Bitfunder operated as a fractional reserve, what's holding havelock from screwing up this too?

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November 25, 2013, 09:48:15 AM
 #189

what if the asset you have has a direct share system in place as a bit of insurance against this exchange failing?
Convert it to direct, then.

Remember that Bitfunder operated as a fractional reserve, what's holding havelock from screwing up this too?


We get it you don't like Havelock. No reason to make up hypothetical situations. I don't understand how bitfunder could operate as a fractional reserve but ukyo.loan most likely did. And there is not a single shred of evidence that suggests Havelock is doing so.

Havelock and Bitfunder are different on so many levels it makes no sense to compare. Bitfunder was run by 1 guy in a country that clearly states that all securities/exchanges must be registered with SEC. Havelock is a team who has been running a legal operating exchange in panaman since 2008 merged with a bitcoin security exchange that has been operating smoothly for more than a year.

Part of being a registered exchange in panama is the requirement of $25,000 iirc and there are names attached to whoever registered The Panama Fund, SA. Unlike Bitfunder there is a physical location and contact numbers.

Again to this day we have no idea why bitfunder or even btct.co shut down as neither burnside or ukyo have clarified why.
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November 25, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
 #190

what if the asset you have has a direct share system in place as a bit of insurance against this exchange failing?
Convert it to direct, then.

Remember that Bitfunder operated as a fractional reserve, what's holding havelock from screwing up this too?


We get it you don't like Havelock. No reason to make up hypothetical situations. I don't understand how bitfunder could operate as a fractional reserve but ukyo.loan most likely did. And there is not a single shred of evidence that suggests Havelock is doing so.

Havelock and Bitfunder are different on so many levels it makes no sense to compare. Bitfunder was run by 1 guy in a country that clearly states that all securities/exchanges must be registered with SEC. Havelock is a team who has been running a legal operating exchange in panaman since 2008 merged with a bitcoin security exchange that has been operating smoothly for more than a year.

Part of being a registered exchange in panama is the requirement of $25,000 iirc and there are names attached to whoever registered The Panama Fund, SA. Unlike Bitfunder there is a physical location and contact numbers.

Again to this day we have no idea why bitfunder or even btct.co shut down as neither burnside or ukyo have clarified why.

Lolz.
No signs that Havelock was operating as a "fractional reserve"?
Havelock is trying to sell share in itself after purportedly being bough by  some doods in Panama.
And failing hard.

Re: "registered exchange in Panama"?  More lolz.  It's a registered Panamanian shelf company.
It costs more money and requires more documentation to register *a dog* in US.

Jimmothy, how much of this mystery bag did you buy? Cheesy
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November 25, 2013, 02:03:55 PM
 #191

 HIF IPO... more like HIV POS... better be covered when investing in it... haha...  Grin
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November 25, 2013, 07:50:14 PM
 #192

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!


FWIW, I've been to the offices many times.  It's not just a shelf corporation.  They are serious about building a solid and trustworthy business. 

I deal with leadership of The Panama Fund directly on a regular basis, and have been for awhile.  They're some of my best and largest customers.
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November 25, 2013, 08:06:40 PM
 #193

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!


FWIW, I've been to the offices many times.  It's not just a shelf corporation.  They are serious about building a solid and trustworthy business. 

I deal with leadership of The Panama Fund directly on a regular basis, and have been for awhile.  They're some of my best and largest customers.

Lol, OK ergfobe, your word's good enough for me.
Can i give you my money, and you can just drop it off at The Panama Fund next time you stop by their office?

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November 25, 2013, 08:09:43 PM
 #194

This person is a trusted and established businessmen and has been a great customer to www.panamabitcoins.com, I vouch that he has the financial backing to be able to carry on this project.


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ergofobe
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November 25, 2013, 08:12:25 PM
 #195


Lol, OK ergfobe, your word's good enough for me.
Can i give you my money, and you can just drop it off at The Panama Fund next time you stop by their office?


I know you're trolling, but short answer, sure.  I'd be happy to hand deliver your BTC.  Roll Eyes
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November 25, 2013, 08:15:29 PM
 #196

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!


FWIW, I've been to the offices many times.  It's not just a shelf corporation.  They are serious about building a solid and trustworthy business. 

I deal with leadership of The Panama Fund directly on a regular basis, and have been for awhile.  They're some of my best and largest customers.

And who are you, what do you do, and why should we take your word for it? How do we know you are not just one of the Havelock guys trying to hype your stock under a sock-puppet account?

Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.com

The best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
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November 25, 2013, 08:19:53 PM
 #197


Lol, OK ergfobe, your word's good enough for me.
Can i give you my money, and you can just drop it off at The Panama Fund next time you stop by their office?


I know you're trolling, but short answer, sure.  I'd be happy to hand deliver your BTC.  Roll Eyes

I'm not trolling if you're not trolling.  Care to share the address of the office you visit so often?  Or does this reputable multimillion dollar corporation wish to remain anonymous just like its friends, the other multimillion dollar corporations?

P.S:
The IPO failed.
No one was fooled.
The flippers got burnt.
Next.
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November 25, 2013, 08:28:07 PM
 #198

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!


FWIW, I've been to the offices many times.  It's not just a shelf corporation.  They are serious about building a solid and trustworthy business. 

I deal with leadership of The Panama Fund directly on a regular basis, and have been for awhile.  They're some of my best and largest customers.

And who are you, what do you do, and why should we take your word for it? How do we know you are not just one of the Havelock guys trying to hype your stock under a sock-puppet account?

You shouldn't take my word for it.  You should verify for yourself.  But since you're obviously not willing to make the effort, and seem content to sit here all day trolling, I guess you'll just have to take me at my word.
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November 25, 2013, 08:36:44 PM
 #199

Strange, they just give us their address, knowing nobody will bother to go there, and avoid to give an answer to the real questions.
Who could have guessed!


FWIW, I've been to the offices many times.  It's not just a shelf corporation.  They are serious about building a solid and trustworthy business.  

I deal with leadership of The Panama Fund directly on a regular basis, and have been for awhile.  They're some of my best and largest customers.

And who are you, what do you do, and why should we take your word for it? How do we know you are not just one of the Havelock guys trying to hype your stock under a sock-puppet account?

You shouldn't take my word for it.  You should verify for yourself.  But since you're obviously not willing to make the effort, and seem content to sit here all day trolling, I guess you'll just have to take me at my word.

How do you suggest i should verify it?  Not that your word ain't plenty good enough 4 me, but for those doubters who aren't 100% convinced they should get in the van invest?

*This is the first multimillion i've dealt with that can't even afford decent socks.
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November 25, 2013, 08:46:08 PM
 #200


I'm not trolling if you're not trolling.  Care to share the address of the office you visit so often?  Or does this reputable multimillion dollar corporation wish to remain anonymous just like its friends, the other multimillion dollar corporations?


I don't represent TPF, but they are my customer, so I'm more concerned with protecting their privacy than squelching your doubts.  However, the address he listed, in Tower A of the Torres de las Americas, in Punta Pacifica, Panama City, Republic of Panama is valid.  The information desk on the ground floor will be able to assist you -- but since it's a secure building, they will need to announce you to the office before granting you a visitors pass.  I suggest you show up in business casual attire, as that's the minimum standard here in Panama.
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