[HAVELOCK] (HIF) Havelock Investments Fund

[hdbuck]

 

Would you have called the Facebook IPO a scam?

Everyone has their opinion and i guess people calling any IPO a "scam" refers to the lack of: 1/preparation 2/information 3/delays 4/bulletproof financial datas etc etc...

No doubt havelock are doing their best to provide a very useful service within the VERY small bitcoin community.. but still... how much was the IPO again? 60M$ worth of bitcoins?!

I guess a "scam" could then be referring to investing money in anything without fully understand what's in stake, being warned consequently or more generally trust the counterpart (which is also very subective but is nonetheless real).

It is not because you call someone a "fag" or "asshole" that he technically is.... but still...  

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[crumbs]

(HIF) Open Market Orders will begin November 27th, 2013 @ 12 PM EST

So given that the IPO failed and they're going with it any way, it's save to say, it's a scam. If it were legit, they'd try another IPO at a more realistic evaluation.

What will happen with the remaining shares?

People are so quick to use the word "scam", when they really mean "unattractive deal" or "over valued". Scam: fraudulent scheme to swindle money - aka, Labcoin. Overpriced: 5 BTC ASICMiner shares or perhaps this IPO. Would you have called the Facebook IPO a scam? Clearly havelock operates a business that generates revenue - if you have evidence that they are frauds, how about sharing that with us?

Whether or not this valuation is reasonable or not is for the market to decide, which happens in about 25 hours. Speculate away until then, but try and choose your words wisely since yelling scam everywhere just reduces the impact when actual fraud happens.

Re: UR semantics herp-a-derp:  This is a clear case of securities fraud.
What's more, a well-conceived and executed scam never runs afoul of existing laws.  It is exactly this strict adherence to the letter of the law that differentiates a decent scam from this floundering pile of fail.

[Lohoris]

Quite the abuse of the trust system, Lohoris. The ignore button is what you're looking for - the trust system is for those who have had actual transactions.

Not an abuse: if I don't trust you, I give you a negative feedback.
That's why it's called, you know, trust.
I don't trust you? Negative trust.
Easy.
Quit the OT, please.

[Herp]

There is one BTC/LTC exchange about to open soon. Another BTC exchange opened recently. Perhaps someone is trying to pave the way for them by bashing the competition.

Crumbs is just trying too hard and it shows.

OHAI Herp.

Let me explain how this works:

When i post, i never ask anyone to trust me -- everything i say is verifiable and could be refuted if false.  I do not ask for money, and when money is offered to me by Havelock, i turn it down.

When Havelock & socks post, all they do is ask for money & ask you to trust them, while failing to offer any information, claiming that they might be KIDNAPPED if they did.

As far as "other exchanges" -- you mean shit like this?  https://mcxnow.com/

Protip:  If knowing that every exchange that ever existed in the BTC world turned out to be fail & AIDS makes you want to "invest," please do so.

To the rest:  Please read the entire thread before making a decision.

I mean other exchanges that opened recently and another one that's about to open soon.

https://www.btcinve.com/
https://www.litecoininvest.com/

and Ciphertrade
https://forum.litecoin.net/index.php?topic=7176.0

[Herp]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

[jimmothy]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

Source?

Afaik we have no idea why btct.co or bitfunder shut down. Although all things point towards SEC.

[Herp]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

Source?

Afaik we have no idea why btct.co or bitfunder shut down. Although all things point towards SEC.

I think Burnside's posts (owner of btct.co and litecoinglobal) were pretty explicit in that sense. He made it pretty clear he was threatened by the authorities but didn't go into details. We know he was US based and so was Ukyo and his Bitfunder.

Shut down of btct.co and litecoinglobal worked almost perfectly for all the shareholders. Burnside has been very honest every step of the way. He auctioned the website code but not sure who bought it.

[crumbs]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?
*Havelock, AFAIK, is a Canadian company -- i was invited to visit them at some semi-abandoned strip mall in Canada.

[Herp]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

[crumbs]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

See my edit above.
Havelock is a Canadian company, it is no more Panamanian then BTCT was Belizean or Bitfunder Australian, unless you have dox to the contrary.
Do you?  

*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

[jimmothy]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

No crumbs you cannot become a registered exchange in panama unless you are a panama citizen with $25000 capital and can fill out the shitload of forms/deal with legal compliance.

Ukyo and burnside were US citizens running unregistered exchanges. If you can't see the difference between havelock and btct.co/bitfunder I'm afraid there is nothing we can do do convince you. Your mind is already made up and no amount of responding to your conspiracy theories will do anything.

[Herp]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

See my edit above.
Havelock is a Canadian company, it is no more Panamanian then BTCT was Belizean or Bitfunder Australian, unless you have dox to the contrary.
Do you?  

*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

I was talking about btct.co and Bitfunder.

However, things get complicated for everyone when it comes to accepting US investors. This is why many banks from Switzerland for example and many other places just refuse to take US customers these days.

See for eg Peter Schiff's bank http://europacbank.com/ See what disclaimer says there?

"This Website is intended for the use of NON United States or Eastern Caribbean States citizens or residents."

[jimmothy]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

See my edit above.
Havelock is a Canadian company, it is no more Panamanian then BTCT was Belizean or Bitfunder Australian, unless you have dox to the contrary.
Do you?  

*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

Again trying to mislead. Havelocks physical location has moved to panama and the team has merged with the new owners/team at tpf sa. You have no idea about these guys because you have never called them and learn about their operation. Instead you use google/internet sleuthing skills to create fud.

[crumbs]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

No crumbs you cannot become a registered exchange in panama unless you are a panama citizen with $25000 capital and can fill out the shitload of forms/deal with legal compliance.

Ukyo and burnside were US citizens running unregistered exchanges. If you can't see the difference between havelock and btct.co/bitfunder I'm afraid there is nothing we can do do convince you. Your mind is already made up and no amount of responding to your conspiracy theories will do anything.

A registered exchange?  You were given a name of a Panamanian shelf company, not a registered exchange.  Why would i want to register an exchange if you're perfectly happy with a name of a (virtually free) shelf registration?   Who bleeds money like that to rope in a handful of suckers?

[jimmothy]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

No crumbs you cannot become a registered exchange in panama unless you are a panama citizen with $25000 capital and can fill out the shitload of forms/deal with legal compliance.

Ukyo and burnside were US citizens running unregistered exchanges. If you can't see the difference between havelock and btct.co/bitfunder I'm afraid there is nothing we can do do convince you. Your mind is already made up and no amount of responding to your conspiracy theories will do anything.

A registered exchange?  You were given a name of a Panamanian shelf company, not a registered exchange.  Why would i want to register an exchange if you're perfectly happy with a name of a (virtually free) shelf registration?   Who bleeds money like that to rope in a handfool of suckers?

Private funds do exist. If you think its a shelf you should call them and ask about their operation. Surely you would find more proof than sitting on your ass internet sleuthing.

[crumbs]

...
*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

I was talking about btct.co and Bitfunder.

However, things get complicated for everyone when it comes to accepting US investors. This is why many banks from Switzerland for example and many other places just refuse to take US customers these days.

See for eg Peter Schiff's bank http://europacbank.com/ See what disclaimer says there?

"This Website is intended for the use of NON United States or Eastern Caribbean States citizens or residents."

Not sure what point you're trying to make?  Havelock is selling unregistered securities to US persons, always has & will continue to in the future, AFAIK.

[jimmothy]

...
*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

I was talking about btct.co and Bitfunder.

However, things get complicated for everyone when it comes to accepting US investors. This is why many banks from Switzerland for example and many other places just refuse to take US customers these days.

See for eg Peter Schiff's bank http://europacbank.com/ See what disclaimer says there?

"This Website is intended for the use of NON United States or Eastern Caribbean States citizens or residents."

Not sure what point you're trying to make?  Havelock is selling unregistered securities to US persons, always has & will continue to in the future, AFAIK.

This is true and it is possible that the US tries to block or make havelock block us citizens but this doesn't mean they can force them to stop operations. Mega.co.nz is an example.

[crumbs]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

No crumbs you cannot become a registered exchange in panama unless you are a panama citizen with $25000 capital and can fill out the shitload of forms/deal with legal compliance.

Ukyo and burnside were US citizens running unregistered exchanges. If you can't see the difference between havelock and btct.co/bitfunder I'm afraid there is nothing we can do do convince you. Your mind is already made up and no amount of responding to your conspiracy theories will do anything.

A registered exchange?  You were given a name of a Panamanian shelf company, not a registered exchange.  Why would i want to register an exchange if you're perfectly happy with a name of a (virtually free) shelf registration?   Who bleeds money like that to rope in a handfool of suckers?

Private funds do exist. If you think its a shelf you should call them and ask about their operation. Surely you would find more proof than sitting on your ass internet sleuthing.

You really don't understand how IRL works, do you?  In a field where 100% of exchanges turned out to be scams, failed, lost money, or all of the above, the burden of proof is on the audacious f8cker with his hand out, not on me.
If you feel comfortable giving your money to strangers unless i conclusively prove that they're a fraud -- go all in.  I suspect you're already balls deep.

[crumbs]

...
*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

I was talking about btct.co and Bitfunder.

However, things get complicated for everyone when it comes to accepting US investors. This is why many banks from Switzerland for example and many other places just refuse to take US customers these days.

See for eg Peter Schiff's bank http://europacbank.com/ See what disclaimer says there?

"This Website is intended for the use of NON United States or Eastern Caribbean States citizens or residents."

Not sure what point you're trying to make?  Havelock is selling unregistered securities to US persons, always has & will continue to in the future, AFAIK.

This is true and it is possible that the US tries to block or make havelock block us citizens but this doesn't mean they can force them to stop operations. Mega.co.nz is an example.

Havelock already lied to you about being legal.  What else do you need?
If you're US, invest.  They'll block you.  Good luck getting your coin.

[Herp]

The first one won't last a year. It's doing the mistakes of the last two closed ones, but worse.

This one isn't located in the US. Big difference. US proved to be most hostile country towards BTC so far. Those 2 exchanges received cease and desist letters from US authorities.

BTCT was registered in Belize, Bitfunder in Australia.  
I could register a corporation in Panama without ever touching foreign soil.
What you are talking about?

Guys running them were US citizens and US residents. That's what I'm talking about.

See my edit above.
Havelock is a Canadian company, it is no more Panamanian then BTCT was Belizean or Bitfunder Australian, unless you have dox to the contrary.
Do you?  

*If i ran an exchange, i'd certainly pay some guy with a net connection in some backwater country to front for me.

Again trying to mislead. Havelocks physical location has moved to panama and the team has merged with the new owners/team at tpf sa. You have no idea about these guys because you have never called them and learn about their operation. Instead you use google/internet sleuthing skills to create fud.

Not sure Crumbs wants to be convinced here or that he cares for arguments. He's obviously a man with a mission putting too much time and effort into this. My guess is he's somehow connected to the guys who recently opened new exchanges or the ones about to open one soon. This is just a clever way to discredit Havelock so that those other exchanges can steal their business. It's as simple as that.