September 27, 2011 U.S.Department of the Treasury might regulate BitCoin

[Matthew N. Wright]

Bitcoin is not the focus, but is arguably certainly included in the ruling

Long before Bitcoin, stored value items have been traded between individuals across the internet, through gaming accounts or even sold online. Examples of the range from WoW Gold to Lockerz points being sold on eBay. As laws are passed daily on issues merely to give more clarification or to provide government accept classification of items, the final ruling should not be received as gloom and doom for Bitcoin, but rather a good starting place for us to pool our resources, learn these new regulations, find out how they affect us in our daily lives, and optionally, oppose them in the courts if we believe they invade our rights.

FinCEN Brings KYC Requirements To Bitcoin?

The U.S. Department of the Treasury (“FinCEN”) issued a Final Rule making non-bank providers of pre-paid financial instruments subject to comprehensive Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) regulations similar to depository institutions.

The regulations affecting “stored value” now use the term “prepaid access” which is more broad and technology-neutral.  Though FinCEN has not formally asserted that Bitcoin would fall under prepaid access regulations, earlier contact with the agency referred to bitcoins as a form of stored-value.  If correct, then Bitcoin sales to U.S. customers would likely be a regulated activity per this Final Rule.

The new regulations become effective on September 27, 2011, 60 days after its July 29, 2011 date of publication in the Federal Register.

To comply with the Final Rule, providers of prepaid access must register with FinCEN.  Because bitcoins are decentralized, it is uncertain who a provider would be.  Might every exchanger be considered a provider, for instance?

Also under the Final Rule, sellers of prepaid access must collect personal information from customers, maintain transaction records, file suspicious activity reports and comply with other requirements of money service businesses (MSB).  Last month FinCEN issued a ruling that was intended to clarify the definition of an MSB and includes the possibility that even businesses outside the U.S. conducting money transfer over the Internet could still be classified as U.S. MSBs.  Additionally, the definition no longer requires that an MSB be a business — any individual who receives funds in exchange for a stored value might be considered an MSB.

Though the ruling has exemptions to not impact the typical prepaid debit card found at grocery stores, for example, the exemptions would likely not apply to Bitcoin.  These exemptions give a pass to providers and sellers when the following conditions are met:

    The funds cannot be transmitted internationally.
    Funds cannot be transferred from one user to another.
    No additional funds can be loaded except from a depository source (e.g., from a bank).

There is no way to limit where bitcoins can be spent and the value is easily transferred from one person to another so Bitcoin will not likely be considered exempt from the AML regulations.

Following these regulations will be a serious burden to sellers. For instance, compliance requirements as specified in an article by Perkins Coie LLP include:

    Identifying information includes the customer’s name, date of birth, address and identification number. Sellers must retain this information for five years from the date of sale.

    The records must be easily accessible and retrievable upon request from FinCEN, law enforcement or judicial order.

The bigger impact of following AML may not necessarily be the cost of compliance but instead will be the likely result — to effectively de-anonymize Bitcoin.

Ironically, these new regulations may drive even faster Bitcoin adoption.  These restrictions may cause many retailers to discontinue offering the prepaid cards that can be used for purchases globally and at ATMs worldwide.  Since global redemption of stored value is a service that is legal to offer (assuming AML compliance, when required, is followed), is in huge demand (e.g., for travel) and is something that Bitcoin does well — using digital currency might become the more popular alternative.

A more immediate consequence will likely be the employment of lawyers to specifically consider how this Final Rule affects Bitcoin.

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[nmat]

So to pay with bitcoins I have to provide my name, date of birth, address and ID number? Paypal suddenly became more anonymous than bitcoin...

[Chick]

So to pay with bitcoins I have to provide my name, date of birth, address and ID number? Paypal suddenly became more anonymous than bitcoin...

*ding*

[wumpus]

So to pay with bitcoins I have to provide my name, date of birth, address and ID number? Paypal suddenly became more anonymous than bitcoin...

Only when buying and selling them with fiat money...

[nmat]

You do realize that, in your example, BitProxy cannot operate legally, right? If you take bitcoins from someone without knowing his/her personal details, you are doing an illegal trade.

[S3052]

I think this is a big problem for bitcoin.

And exactly what governments needed to do to avoid bitcoins becoming a real competition to their national cuccency.
... By making it so complicated that no normal person wants it anymore
I hope I am wrong...

[kjj]

I'm pretty sure that even a lawyer bad enough to get stuck working as a judge can see that bitcoin is very clearly neither a way to store USD, nor a way to prepay for anything.

[JoelKatz]

Prepaid access. Access to funds or the value of funds that have been paid in advance and can be retrieved or transferred at some point in the future through an electronic device or vehicle, such as a card, code, electronic serial number, mobile identification number, or personal identification number.

Bitcoins are not, in any sense, "paid in advance'.

[koin]

Bitcoins are not, in any sense, "paid in advance'.

they consider phone cards (e.g., 120 minutes of long distance) and transit cards (e.g., good for N day passes) as stored value.  they specifcally specify "electronic serial number" as one of the "card" types.

[JoelKatz]

Bitcoins are not, in any sense, "paid in advance'.

they consider phone cards (e.g., 120 minutes of long distance) and transit cards (e.g., good for N day passes) as stored value.  they specifcally specify "electronic serial number" as one of the "card" types.

Right, in those cases, you really are paying for something in advance. Bitcoins are a commodity, like gold. You can buy and sell gold, but if you buy gold and then trade it for a hamburger, your buying the gold wasn't paying for the hamburger.

[JackH]

This wont apply to Bitcoin. These are just updated rules in regards to the established industry. There is no mentioning of Bitcoin anywhere. of course this would apply to exchangers, but exchanging into Bitcoin or not Bitcoin wont matter.

Imagine the impact of mentioning Bitcoin - they want to avoid that. Attacking Bitcoin or the opposite would put Bitcoin on the currency map big time. Bitcoin stays the same, the system is impossible to regulate and for now everyone in office is scratching their tiny heads on what to do to control the beast.

[stsbrad]

Whats with this bitcoinmoney website you are quoting this article from? it's a blog full of bitcoin haterade. comparing bitcoins to stored value cards? it's apples and oranges. just seems like fear mongering to me.

[BitcoinPorn]

Very against this UABCI

It is a scam.  I feel sorry for all who fall prey to your posts.

This is not a joke post.

Sadly, I believe Matthew N. Wright and whoever his cohorts are, really think they might be doing good (well not all of them, one of them must know the scam).  Will not comment further at the moment.  Bitcoin is the most amusing soap opera ever.

[airdata]

I can see where alot of people would freak out about this.  Anonymity is obviously a huge deal w\ bitcoin and alot of people hold that to be one of the top reasons to use bitcoin.

However, such regulation could be good for bitcoin.  It could help with security and curb hacking and scamming in the community. 

[apetersson]

However, such regulation could be good for bitcoin.  It could help with security and curb hacking and scamming in the community. 

I agree.

It is inevitable that the flow of Bitcoins will be transparent to the TLAs. It might get more inconvenient to do business on mtgox/others soon, but overall the system will be more mature.
I don't think Bitcoin will continue to be used "like cash".
Note that Germany has passed a similar law, which might also apply to Bitcoin.

In any case I think we should get the help of a lawyer to assess how exactly the law applies to Bitcoin. Maybe we can get a written statement. If there is a pledge fund for this, I would join.

[Nesetalis]

i can understand major stores and outlets being required, if they are going to deal in large volumes of BTC.. however individual transfers should be treated as cash, small venders, who make a low volume of transfers.. all anonymous.

[Trader Steve]

I think this quote applies:

'Yes, make sure you get permission from your masters..."

[Steve]

According to this new ruling, companies, organizations as well as individuals must register in order to legally transact with any parties, providing quite privacy invasive contact information on each individual transacted with as well as keep those records for 5 years.

What do you think would be a good way to insure that this ruling does not apply to Bitcoin?

The use of bitcoin is an exercise of free speech and as such is protected by the 1st amendment to the US constitution.  Any law that would interfere with the use of bitcoin is in direct contradiction to this amendment.

[apetersson]

The use of bitcoin is an exercise of free speech and as such is protected by the 1st amendment to the US constitution.  Any law that would interfere with the use of bitcoin is in direct contradiction to this amendment.

this is something i would love to see proven in court! however the outcome is, it would help the project.

[Cryptoman]

Forgive me for getting a little off topic, but it is because of a preponderance of regulations such as this that the U.S. economy will remain in a recession for the foreseeable future.  Who wants to bother starting a business (or engaging in any commerce, really) when you have to comply with myriad regulations and have to be continually leery of missteps that can land you in prison?  It's much easier to just stay at home and collect a check from the government.

[Rassah]

Forgive me for getting a little off topic, but it is because of a preponderance of regulations such as this that the U.S. economy will remain in a recession for the foreseeable future.  Who wants to bother starting a business (or engaging in any commerce, really) when you have to comply with myriad regulations and have to be continually leery of missteps that can land you in prison?  It's much easier to just stay at home and collect a check from the government.

I would say the biggest cause is uncertainty. Businesses hate uncertainty more than they hate regulation, and with the constant political b*tching going on with threatened gov. shutdowns, debt ceilings, and whatever else is coming this Fall, I'd blame the current economic state of affairs directly on the House/Senate, rather than anything that's already been passed into law.

[Trader Steve]

Since when anyone in US cares about The Constitution? I thought there are like dozens of current and enforced laws which are clearly in direct violation of The Constitution. Anyone would like to list top 100?

So True.

[kgo]

According to this new ruling, companies, organizations as well as individuals must register in order to legally transact with any parties, providing quite privacy invasive contact information on each individual transacted with as well as keep those records for 5 years.

What do you think would be a good way to insure that this ruling does not apply to Bitcoin?

The use of bitcoin is an exercise of free speech and as such is protected by the 1st amendment to the US constitution.  Any law that would interfere with the use of bitcoin is in direct contradiction to this amendment.

I don't see how sending or receiving of bitcoins would constitute free speech.

[Nesetalis]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

[smoothie]

If that was true...sell bitcoins and buy namecoins.

[nmat]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

Dollar transactions are strings of bytes communicated between banks Bitcoin is a currency. It isn't free speech.

I think someone with easy access to a lawyer should check out if this applies to bitcoin or not (or maybe contact FinCEN directly).

[Rassah]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

Dollar transactions are strings of bytes communicated between banks Bitcoin is a currency. It isn't free speech.

I think someone with easy access to a lawyer should check out if this applies to bitcoin or not (or maybe contact FinCEN directly).

Well, according to the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling, money == speech...

[hugolp]

Since when anyone in US cares about The Constitution? I thought there are like dozens of current and enforced laws which are clearly in direct violation of The Constitution. Anyone would like to list top 100?

"The constitution is just a piece of paper"

George Bush

[nhodges]

You do realize that, in your example, BitProxy cannot operate legally, right? If you take bitcoins from someone without knowing his/her personal details, you are doing an illegal trade.

But it is arguable that the signature generated from their private key is indeed identifiable and unique detail. It's the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation all over again. You can fight both sides of this case, but whoever has more money will win in court.

[BioMike]

Last month FinCEN issued a ruling that was intended to clarify the definition of an MSB and includes the possibility that even businesses outside the U.S. conducting money transfer over the Internet could still be classified as U.S. MSBs.  Additionally, the definition no longer requires that an MSB be a business — any individual who receives funds in exchange for a stored value might be considered an MSB.

I'm no lawyer, but reading this gives me the following question: if I (in Europe) sell bitcoins (over internet == USA) to some other European person for money... I have to report it to FinCEN?

Plus, op topic, FinCEN can't track EVERY transaction, so seems a bit impractical to me. So what prevents people from civil disobedience?

[wareen]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

Right - no data packet can be illegal so luckily there will never be any crime on the Internet

While I don't think freedom of speech can be successfully applied to Bitcoin, I'm not so sure if it is easy to cover Bitcoin with any conventional definition of "pre-paid financial instruments" either.

Note that Germany has passed a similar law, which might also apply to Bitcoin.

I beg to differ - a German attorney came to the conclusion that under current jurisdiction, Bitcoin is not a currency but a commodity. According to this thread, Germany's Federal Financial Supervisory Authority also stated in a response to a lawyer of a forum member that Bitcoins are specifically not "e-Geld" (e-money) and as such do not fall under the recently proposed anti money laundering draft law 317/11 you're probably referring to.

I personally expect Bitcoin exchanges to be regulated soon but merchants accepting Bitcoins as payments or individuals paying with Bitcoins will most probably not be covered by any conventional laws (ie. laws not specifically crafted for P2P cryptocurrencies) for the foreseeable future.

[RogerR]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

Dollar transactions are strings of bytes communicated between banks Bitcoin is a currency. It isn't free speech.

I think someone with easy access to a lawyer should check out if this applies to bitcoin or not (or maybe contact FinCEN directly).

I doubt this is correct. Interbank data transmissions are contracts to commit assets stored at central clearing organizations to be deposited at counterparty accounts within said clearing organizations. They may be similar to a currency, but they are not the same.

Let me give you a short example: If Clearstream (a central European clearing house) was to lose it's credibility tomorrow, the stored money/assets would still be valuable, but the Clearstream transmissions themselves could easily be considered worthless.

Not a contract lawer though, but this is my impression as a former Fixed Income trader who actually had to deal with the bank liquidity business before.

[kgo]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

So modern day money-laundering is free speech too?  Because the same argument applies to bank transfers.

[bitrebel]

No matter what you think or want to argue, bit coin is NOT "pre-paid financial instruments".

So Bitcoins cannot be legally included in this definition or this law. It applies to all items used to store DOLLAR value. Even when you buy WOW gold, it's still denominated in dollars. Bitcoins are not dollars, so therefore items that utilize bitcoins exclusively are not included in US legislation of this kind.

da judge has spoken

[JoelKatz]

bitcoins are information, strings of bytes. That is communicated from one computer to another through the network..
thats how it falls under free speech.

If that were true, "I'll give you $50,000 if you kill my wife" would be lawful speech as well, but we know it's not.

[nhodges]

I don't see how sending or receiving of bitcoins would constitute free speech.

Maybe if we called each other up on the phone and spoke the hashes 

Can you say charged for conspiracy to defraud the US Treasury? 

[BTC_Junkie]

So even disregarding its application to bitcoins.... you will need to show ID to buy an amazon.com gift card?

[nmat]

So even disregarding its application to bitcoins.... you will need to show ID to buy an amazon.com gift card?

Now that's a relevant question. If so, amazon gift cards will get extremely unpopular.

[Exonumia]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

[ctoon6]

I think its time we set up a decentralized information network with wireless mesh.

[BidBitcoins]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

[ctoon6]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

legalize drugs.

reasons: less money spent on catching criminals and keeping them locked up.
heavily tax the drugs, they would still be cheaper than off the street.

tada! half the money laundering is now gone.

[BCEmporium]

Gosh! You guys never let me down on amaze me with prepotency!
WTF do I care for an US "act"?! In my jurisdiction "US acts" can be used for toilet paper, like in the remaining 95% of the World... the bankrupt treasury of US should be more concerned about pay its huge over 100% of GDP debt rather than "regulate" an international borderless e-currency which doesn't belong to USA.
Well, if you're American you must abide your country laws, but that's it.

[bitrebel]

Gosh! You guys never let me down on amaze me with prepotency!
WTF do I care for an US "act"?! In my jurisdiction "US acts" can be used for toilet paper, like in the remaining 95% of the World... the bankrupt treasury of US should be more concerned about pay its huge over 100% of GDP debt rather than "regulate" an international borderless e-currency which doesn't belong to USA.
Well, if you're American you must abide your country laws, but that's it.

No no no, your mistaken. Even if you're not American you have to go by American laws. Don't believe me? Just wait. After North Korea and Iran and Libya, your Next buddy!

[Exonumia]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

legalize drugs.

reasons: less money spent on catching criminals and keeping them locked up.
heavily tax the drugs, they would still be cheaper than off the street.

tada! half the money laundering is now gone.

We can't have them competing with Big Pharma now can we...

Seriously I agree with you in all points... the problem is there is no organized bribery... I mean lobby group for the "illicit" drug sellers.
 

[BCEmporium]

No no no, your mistaken. Even if you're not American you have to go by American laws. Don't believe me? Just wait. After North Korea and Iran and Libya, your Next buddy!

Looks like Libya isn't going down that easy, doesn't it? Let alone N Korea and Iran. And what about China and Russia? Putin just called US an economic parasite whereas launched the re-equip of Russia... looks like US's reign of terror is about to end rather than someone "to be next".

[ctoon6]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

legalize drugs.

reasons: less money spent on catching criminals and keeping them locked up.
heavily tax the drugs, they would still be cheaper than off the street.

tada! half the money laundering is now gone.

We can't have them competing with Big Pharma now can we...

Seriously I agree with you in all points... the problem is there is no organized bribery... I mean lobby group for the "illicit" drug sellers.

The only people that would not go for my plan are the retarded private prisons and the people who go with the argument "then everyone would do it". in fact the big pharmacies would MAKE MORE MONEY. they could sell the drugs in greater volume.

[bitrebel]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

legalize drugs.

reasons: less money spent on catching criminals and keeping them locked up.
heavily tax the drugs, they would still be cheaper than off the street.

tada! half the money laundering is now gone.

ctoon6, you're probably a very smart person, so I wonder why you have not figured this out yet.
Banks and Drug laws exist to work hand in hand together. Banks would not exist, if there were no drugs which were illegal to launder money through. There would be no need for banks if drugs were legal. Banks were created to serve the purpose of laundering the opium profits and returning the Britsh pound to gold to pay the opium farmers because all they accept for payment is gold. Elementary Watson

[bitrebel]

No no no, your mistaken. Even if you're not American you have to go by American laws. Don't believe me? Just wait. After North Korea and Iran and Libya, your Next buddy!

Looks like Libya isn't going down that easy, doesn't it? Let alone N Korea and Iran. And what about China and Russia? Putin just called US an economic parasite whereas launched the re-equip of Russia... looks like US's reign of terror is about to end rather than someone "to be next".

Fuck 'em , we have Flying Saucers and Micro Nukes!

We'll WTC them and turn their metals into dust!

[BCEmporium]

No empire lasts forever...
I rather have Russia and US staring at each other again, like in good'old 80's, hopefully without all those proxy wars. It brings balance to power and restrain US for go on "war on drugs", "war on inexistent weapons", "war on <put or make up the reason here>"... gosh! Those folks really have an obsession for "war"!

[ctoon6]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

legalize drugs.

reasons: less money spent on catching criminals and keeping them locked up.
heavily tax the drugs, they would still be cheaper than off the street.

tada! half the money laundering is now gone.

ctoon6, you're probably a very smart person, so I wonder why you have not figured this out yet.
Banks and Drug laws exist to work hand in hand together. Banks would not exist, if there were no drugs which were illegal to launder money through. There would be no need for banks if drugs were legal. Banks were created to serve the purpose of laundering the opium profits and returning the Britsh pound to gold to pay the opium farmers because all they accept for payment is gold. Elementary Watson

i find the argument that banks only make money and exist through laundering money hard to believe. although it would not surprise me much if someone did present proof unless it already does exist and i do not know of it. but even so, you can launder money way cheaper in bitcoin than through a "real" bank. and that would make banks not make as much money, although i have no idea why they would need to do it in the first place, at least in the current day US. Though FRB banks make money out of thin air anyway.

[bitrebel]

No empire lasts forever...
I rather have Russia and US staring at each other again, like in good'old 80's, hopefully without all those proxy wars. It brings balance to power and restrain US for go on "war on drugs", "war on inexistent weapons", "war on <put or make up the reason here>"... gosh! Those folks really have an obsession for "war"!

Russia has some pretty bad ass weapons, too. Like what they did to Japan. That was horrific with the Tsunami and the Scalar Weaponry. You guys need to keep your leaders under control.

[bitrebel]

I understood the main reason for this legislation was to close the anonymous pre-paid phone accounts... that is they are not happy that you can use a phone without it being tied to your name/address. The whole thing is silly, however, as those with criminal intent will just use others credentials to purchase.

I don't think that's what it is. Anyone can get a Metro PCS phone without ID. I think it's the fact that stored value cards are used to launder drug money. The Treasury issued a Memorandum about this a few years back. They claimed it was the number one way people were avoiding taxes and laundering drug money.

legalize drugs.

reasons: less money spent on catching criminals and keeping them locked up.
heavily tax the drugs, they would still be cheaper than off the street.

tada! half the money laundering is now gone.

ctoon6, you're probably a very smart person, so I wonder why you have not figured this out yet.
Banks and Drug laws exist to work hand in hand together. Banks would not exist, if there were no drugs which were illegal to launder money through. There would be no need for banks if drugs were legal. Banks were created to serve the purpose of laundering the opium profits and returning the Britsh pound to gold to pay the opium farmers because all they accept for payment is gold. Elementary Watson

i find the argument that banks only make money and exist through laundering money hard to believe. although it would not surprise me much if someone did present proof unless it already does exist and i do not know of it. but even so, you can launder money way cheaper in bitcoin than through a "real" bank. and that would make banks not make as much money, although i have no idea why they would need to do it in the first place, at least in the current day US. Though FRB banks make money out of thin air anyway.

You answered your own question. They print it out of thin air. But they need to keep the drug trade going, and oil and gold, and they need to transfer funds between the 3, without it being obvious to all nations, how it's done.

[ctoon6]

You answered your own question. They print it out of thin air. But they need to keep the drug trade going, and oil and gold, and they need to transfer funds between the 3, without it being obvious to all nations, how it's done.

correction, they don't even print it, they simply change a few bits of text in the computer and people accept that as a valid form of payment.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

This thread sucks! Nobody mentioned porn until now. And bump is now a sexual term.

[bitrebel]

You answered your own question. They print it out of thin air. But they need to keep the drug trade going, and oil and gold, and they need to transfer funds between the 3, without it being obvious to all nations, how it's done.

correction, they don't even print it, they simply change a few bits of text in the computer and people accept that as a valid form of payment.

Yes, it's finger strokes across a keyboard. Not much more. But there is an accounting behind it. It's unaccountable though.

[BCEmporium]

Russia has some pretty bad ass weapons, too. Like what they did to Japan. That was horrific with the Tsunami and the Scalar Weaponry. You guys need to keep your leaders under control.

Wait a minute! That one was GOD! Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPd-SY6OhLY

or here, the shorter version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U-GaP4PEW4

[dtime]

Hey Matthew or bitmole ...   If I send you some coins will you go away forever?   

[bitrebel]

Russia has some pretty bad ass weapons, too. Like what they did to Japan. That was horrific with the Tsunami and the Scalar Weaponry. You guys need to keep your leaders under control.

Wait a minute! That one was GOD! Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPd-SY6OhLY

or here, the shorter version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U-GaP4PEW4

I found this one more interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haj02zodA-c

[BCEmporium]

I don't speak Russian enough to check whether the translation is accurate, however I bet if they open a bit more the scene you would see a lot of empty vodka bottles around that guy.  

[bitrebel]

I don't speak Russian enough to check whether the translation is accurate, however I bet if they open a bit more the scene you would see a lot of empty vodka bottles around that guy.  

Possibly, yes. Some say he's a bit of a nutjob politician over there, but they say the same about Ron Paul over here.

So I wonder....I know we have them, and you have them, but we got our technology for it from you, as far as I am aware.

[BCEmporium]

«You've them»?! I don't have mystical God powers, as far as I'm aware. All I can is to throw Kamehamehs SanGoku-like... oh! Wait! Not even that... toxic farts count?

Oh man... but back in the old days here's how everybody knows who is who:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=259095894115809&oid=344488255560&comments

 

[bitrebel]

«You've them»?! I don't have mystical God powers, as far as I'm aware. All I can is to throw Kamehamehs SanGoku-like... oh! Wait! Not even that... toxic farts count?

Oh man... but back in the old days here's how everybody knows who is who:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=259095894115809&oid=344488255560&comments

 

Yes, i'm pretty sure it was you we got them from. The CIA through the KGB found your facebook profile and you guys did the deal over silkroad. 

[BCEmporium]

You're wrong, we did the deal through myBitcoin; that's why the site was washed away, the CIA wanted to test-drive it before. 

[DannyM]

I hope that those who have been opposed to the idea of a representative organization will receive this as a gentle wakeup call to the importance of the UABCI and your personal involvement in our future to help protect you

Everybody wants to protect me.

If you really want to help and protect me/us, run an open-transactions server or a freenet node or an open wireless AP or donate to Fellow Traveler.

 

[Rassah]

Russia has some pretty bad ass weapons, too. Like what they did to Japan. That was horrific with the Tsunami and the Scalar Weaponry. You guys need to keep your leaders under control.

That wasn't Russia, that was USA. The "weapon" was a HORRIBLE giant robot movie, which made a large chunk of Japan quite literally turn in it's grave.