BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC)

[sangaman]

Apparently it won't be, since some people here seem to think stealing from its users is a commendable practice.

Seriously, how would you handle the case "someone sends an unconfirmed TX right before the bet ends, TX confirms after the bet has been decided" ?

Refund?
You want to discourage scammers, not have to guess every time whether the request is legitimate or not.

Yes, refund minus some fee for the inconvenience. I don't see how it's scamming if the bet is at all in question when the transaction was made. If the price is at $749, is it a scam to bet that it will hit $750? What about $740? $700?

It's very simple as I see it, don't count bets that confirm after the bet is over. That way nobody can cheat the system. If someone tries to make a late bet and the transaction doesn't confirm, return the money minus a small fee. That money is not yours to keep, it's not yours at all. And in situations like the one OP bet in, price can move VERY fast and confirmations can take 30 minutes+ even with a generous fee sometimes. In fact I was watching the price that day and I wouldn't be surprised if the price on the exchanges went from ~$700 or so to $750 in a matter of minutes.

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[SgtSpike]

If you don't want people to bet right before the bet ends, then simply reduce the potential winnings gradually right near the end.

This is already the case, which shows you still haven't read the FAQ.  

Then why is there any worry about last-minute bidders "scamming" other people at all?

[freethink2013]

If you don't want people to bet right before the bet ends, then simply reduce the potential winnings gradually right near the end.

This is already the case, which shows you still haven't read the FAQ.  

Then why is there any worry about last-minute bidders "scamming" other people at all?

We're dealing with mid-intelligence criminals here. MP pays them "dividends" from people she's ripped off and then they slap each other on the back. Circlejerks like that seldom make sense.

All MP's 'businesses' would be in the red if they had to stop stealing. S/he managed to run a company in the real world for how long before going bust? And how many tens of dollars did he/she make in those years?

I used to know a few criminals back in the day and the attitude of MP reminds me of them. They used to say stuff like "Someone leaving a window open deserve to be robbed - the idiots!" or "What did the stupid bitch expect leaving her handbag on the floor?"

Absolutely no difference between those crims and bitbet. The thing about both groups is they prey on people being trusting. They think someone trusting someone else is a fool. I expect MP was abandoned as a child and this is how s/he gets back at the world. Fuck all these criminals. All they ever get is a very short term gain then a life full of misery.

[freethink2013]

If you don't want people to bet right before the bet ends, then simply reduce the potential winnings gradually right near the end.

This is already the case, which shows you still haven't read the FAQ.  

Then why is there any worry about last-minute bidders "scamming" other people at all?

It's about betting after the result is known.
You really read nothing, did you? Perhaps do that before taking a side.

Your own sig admits you are a paid shill.

"Hire me" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240677.0

I wonder how much you got paid for this thread. I doubt you even got a whole bitcoin. You're the bottom feeder that other bottom feeders shit on.

[SgtSpike]

If you don't want people to bet right before the bet ends, then simply reduce the potential winnings gradually right near the end.

This is already the case, which shows you still haven't read the FAQ.  

Then why is there any worry about last-minute bidders "scamming" other people at all?

It's about betting after the result is known.
You really read nothing, did you? Perhaps do that before taking a side.

If the result of a bet becomes known prior to the bet deadline, then no further bets should be taken.  People can be free to send more money in, but they would get exactly 0% of the winnings, only having their money refunded.

How is this a hard thing for people to figure out?  I don't get it.

[freethink2013]

Your own sig admits you are a paid shill.

First, read it. None of the work is going under the username "pankkake".
Second, try to make your brain work. Would I advertise it on the very account I would do it, if I was paid to? Would I advertise it if I thought it would harm my credibility in any way? Perhaps you're not as clever as you think you are.
Third, if I was paid, how does that invalidate anything? MPOE-PR is paid, for example, does that mean she is wrong?
Fourth, explain this.

I wonder how much you got paid for this thread. I doubt you even got a whole bitcoin. You're the bottom feeder that other bottom feeders shit on.

Zero, and I lost on that bet!

I doubt you even got a whole bitcoin. You're the bottom feeder that other bottom feeders shit on.

Given the amount of time I spent on this thread, I certainly would not make anyone pay one bitcoin, I'd consider 0.1 BTC to be a very good tip.
Given how much I loled, I'd pay to read this thread.
TL;DR Learn to ad hominem.

You're an admitted paid shill. Wipe that shit off your lips. I've no interest in reading your thread as it's written by you and you're posting for bitcoin and will post whatever you are paid to post.

Oh we're supposed to expect a WEAK character like you will only expect money to post in your comedy alt not in your serious, honest pankkake account; yet here you are an apologist shill.

[freethink2013]

You're an admitted paid shill. wipe that shit off your lips.

...and as expected, a reply void of any arguments. Checkmate!

I doubt you even understand checkers let alone chess. It's checkmate when I have no more moves.

This is way above your pay grade shitface.

When's your girlfriend back anyway?

[freethink2013]

You're an admitted paid shill. wipe that shit off your lips.

...and as expected, a reply void of any arguments. Checkmate!

I doubt you even understand checkers let alone chess. It's checkmate when I have no more moves.

This is way above your pay grade shitface.

When's your girlfriend back anyway?

So much butthurt.
Now you understand why I'd pay just to read this thread

I don't have a dog in this race, unlike you bitchboy. I'm here purely because I want to be not because I was paid. My butt is absolutely fine. If it was hurting I'm sure I could pay a shill like you 0.00001bitcoin to kiss it better.

Is there anything you won't do for bitcoin dust? Do you consider yourself a rent-boy or do you have a different name for it? Genuine question.

[MPOE-PR]

Hopefully, they will spread the word that BitBet is a scam site run by thieves.

Which is false, but I understand guess blackmail is OK with you.
What you should know is that you're far from the first wanting to do that. What do you think would happen if any company catered towards any of those requests?

You do realize no one was able to provide a valid argument which makes bitbet's policy a legit reason for keeping those btc, right? So far in the whole post every time it was questioned all the answers where insults. I hope you can clarify from a technical point of view why this is valid.

The BitBet policy needs no "legit reason". It IS the policy. That's it, what BitBet says is what is. No "legit"-ing around by unrelated parties on forums can change what the policy is.

Re-read my posts in this thread and copy them by hand on your notebook. They're not optional for you, they're mandatory.

You do realize that not agreeing with someone's policy is not enough to build a court case?
The policy is there, if you don't agree don't use the site. But if you call it "theft", you're a scammer.

I don't think you understand how policies work in court.  A court would never uphold a policy that states "I have the right to steal your money," which is effectivly what bitbet's policy says.

The only court which might have had any authority here would have been the Rota. Unfortunately, that died. So whatever, GLWT.

5.1. This contract is the sole and complete agreement between the parties. It may not be modified by third parties, irrespective if said parties should style themselves "court of law", "judge" or otherwise.

From, you know, the contract.

[freethink2013]

The only court which might have had any authority here would have been the Rota. Unfortunately, that died.

Woof?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Rota?

Corrected for you, running dog. As previously stated I'm only here for my own entertainment. There's no money in it for me

[MPOE-PR]

Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.

The only court which might have had any authority here would have been the Rota. Unfortunately, that died.

Wut? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Rota?

http://trilema.com/category/rota/

But good call, I hear that was the reference.

[MPOE-PR]

If you don't want people to bet right before the bet ends, then simply reduce the potential winnings gradually right near the end.

This is already the case, which shows you still haven't read the FAQ.  

I am reading the FAQ and if the website is coded this poorly I am amazed anyone in their right mind would use it.

"What if I created a bet address but can't bet right now?

Once you enter a receiving address and are given a send-to address, you have 3 days (72 hours) to send your bet. If your bet does not make it within 72 hours then that address will be reclaimed. BitBet will be unable to send you your BTC back, as they will have probably been allocated to someone else's bet! Always make sure that you send your first bet on a created address within 3 days of its creation. "

You happen to be wrong, on both scores. Your wrongness has been happily entered into the record, we can lol at it in a few years, np.

[kireinaha]

This is why Bitcoin`s lack of a chargeback medium and lack of consumer protections in general is so dangerous; it allows criminal enterprises such as this which are located offshore and away from US jurisdiction to take advantage of consumer trust with very little in the way of counter measures. It`s a major issue that Bitcoin will need to address to remain relevant, IMO.

As for anyone in this thread that actually defends BitBet`s decision to confiscate the OP`s money... if you`re not one of the company `shareholders`  then you really need to get your head checked. I readily admit that I don`t read all 46 pages of Apple`s user consent when I use iTunes, but I would certainly be protected by my bank`s consumer protections if iTunes decided to confiscate my money for some asinine reason. `Oh, that song was only available for a limited time, and we received your payment from your bank after that limit was met. However, we`ll still gladly accept your payment and provide you nothing in return. Sorry, but you`re screwed` Haha, I don`t think so.

[kireinaha]

So, charge back every time you lose a bet? That is so going to work!

Oh sorry, I thought I read that the OP sent the coins while the bet was still active, but the coins were confirmed and arrived after the bet had closed, in which case you certainly agree that his money should be refunded.

But what you`re saying is, his coins arrived to BitBet`s wallet while the bet was still active, and the bet was then lost. Right?

[snackman]

Oh sorry, I thought I read that the OP sent the coins while the bet was still active, but the coins were confirmed and arrived after the bet had closed,

That's right.

[kireinaha]

Oh sorry, I thought I read that the OP sent the coins while the bet was still active, but the coins were confirmed and arrived after the bet had closed,

That's right.

Pankakke must either be confused regarding the original issue or he`s intentionally being dishonest. Given his record so far, I`d suppose it`s the latter.

For the record, I agree that a chargeback feature would be difficult or perhaps impossible to implement to the Bitcoin protocol. As George W Bush said, `Freedom isn`t free.` The freedom that comes with Bitcoin is paid by the means of proliferation of scam sites such as BitBet who operate under impunity from the law. Bitcoin is able to operate with low/no transaction fees because there are no services tacked on to protect consumers, which should be a reminder that users should take maximum precautions when dealing with any merchant or service provider with the Bitcoin protocol, as they can essentially confiscate your coins for any arbitrary reason.

[snackman]

If you don't want people to bet right before the bet ends, then simply reduce the potential winnings gradually right near the end.

This is already the case, which shows you still haven't read the FAQ.  

Then why is there any worry about last-minute bidders "scamming" other people at all?

It's about betting after the result is known.
You really read nothing, did you? Perhaps do that before taking a side.

Bets that arrive after the result is known should be refunded. If the bet placed was actually:

The price of bitcoin in USD as per MtGox or Bitstamp via bitcoincharts will be over 750 USD before April 17th, 2014 AND this bet will arrive to BitBet before the price crosses 750.

It should have said as much on the front page of the wager.

Your site also allows users to lose bitcoin wagering on the winning bet. To whom is that bitcoin distributed?

[MoneyMorpheus]

Hopefully, they will spread the word that BitBet is a scam site run by thieves.

Which is false, but I understand guess blackmail is OK with you.
What you should know is that you're far from the first wanting to do that. What do you think would happen if any company catered towards any of those requests?

You do realize no one was able to provide a valid argument which makes bitbet's policy a legit reason for keeping those btc, right? So far in the whole post every time it was questioned all the answers where insults. I hope you can clarify from a technical point of view why this is valid.

The BitBet policy needs no "legit reason". It IS the policy. That's it, what BitBet says is what is. No "legit"-ing around by unrelated parties on forums can change what the policy is.

Re-read my posts in this thread and copy them by hand on your notebook. They're not optional for you, they're mandatory.

You do realize that not agreeing with someone's policy is not enough to build a court case?
The policy is there, if you don't agree don't use the site. But if you call it "theft", you're a scammer.

I don't think you understand how policies work in court.  A court would never uphold a policy that states "I have the right to steal your money," which is effectivly what bitbet's policy says.

The only court which might have had any authority here would have been the Rota. Unfortunately, that died. So whatever, GLWT.

5.1. This contract is the sole and complete agreement between the parties. It may not be modified by third parties, irrespective if said parties should style themselves "court of law", "judge" or otherwise.

From, you know, the contract.

Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.

The only court which might have had any authority here would have been the Rota. Unfortunately, that died.

Wut? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Rota?

http://trilema.com/category/rota/

But good call, I hear that was the reference.

You see what I mean? If you give arguments and reason people will respect you. Given that you actually are a representative of bitbet.us, right? If your only answer are insults when people question a policy hidden under FAQs, the whole community will consider you as a scammer (no user has the obligation to read faqs to use a service btw...)

[snackman]

This is apparently not the first, or even the second time, that BitBet has scammed its users.

Hopefully it's the last.

Apparently it won't be, since some people here seem to think stealing from its users is a commendable practice.

You see what I mean? If you give arguments and reason people will respect you. Given that you actually are a representative of bitbet.us, right? If your only answer are insults when people question a policy hidden under FAQs, the whole community will consider you as a scammer (no user has the obligation to read faqs to use a service btw...)

As far as I can tell, the dissenters in this thread are either confused, exposed (i.e. shareholders), or bribed. There has been a lot of name calling, but there has not been one coherent argument as to why my bet should not be refunded.

[tonyq]

I run www.bitcoinpunter.com
My traffic is pleasing...I come out on the first page when people google all of the most common phrases regarding where they can bet with bitcoin.
What I don't have as yet, is a section telling people the outfits I think they should avoid.
I think I'll be doing one now though. and I certainly know who is going to be the first one mentioned after reading this thread.