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Poll
Question: Do you believe UABB is a...
Viable Service to Bitcoin (my belief)
Scam
Fraud
?, for I'm holding back judgement at this time.
or, I always vote for the humorous option, just because!
Self Important Fuckwit

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BitcoinPorn
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August 04, 2011, 02:04:04 AM
 #101

Although not having a UABB accreditation says absolutely nothing as to whether your business is 'legitimate' or not (is every business in the US accredited by the BBB?), it does show the a particular vender is willing to take the extra steps towards protecting its consumers from fraud and in showing it is in fact capable and willing to take responsibility for its actions.

Make what the accreditation requirements be up to the public.  Take polls.  Etc.  The idea itself isn't bad, the portion of it being part of a private group is what makes it just not work in my eyes.

Also, even mentioning the BBB, oh man, that is just giving me bad feelings all over about having any groups trying to give stamps as to what is okay or not.

I am offering no solutions to the problems, but I just do not feel the UABB is one.

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 04, 2011, 02:04:12 AM
 #102

Boy, you get up to speed fast. Remind me not to jacko pee in your Cheerios. Thank you for your comments, ctoon6.

sometimes i post faster than i should. although i do try to get to the source as fast as possible with a great understanding of both sides of the story. i have yet to see any other side posted. also the when searching for uabb, it links to some myspace bs. another reason not to trust it, they didnt even bother to raise the search rank, or its just very new, and again would have no trust or credibility built up.

The UABB is about a week old and hasn't even opened its door yet. That's the ironic part of all this. What started out as a conversation between a random user and Maged, turned into a promising idea for a new site that could help reduce fraud and handle consumer complaints. During its development stages (now), I have been enlisted help, but obviously not enough. There are more people willing to bash it than contribute to its success. It's kind of silly to be calling something a scam before it's even operational though, if you ask me.

All I can say is that the BBB is a dirty racket though it didn't start out that way; I don't see why it would pan out any different for Bitcoin.

Do you see any way that the UABB business model can be tweaked to better serve the Bitcoin community?
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August 04, 2011, 02:18:46 AM
 #103

Although not having a UABB accreditation says absolutely nothing as to whether your business is 'legitimate' or not (is every business in the US accredited by the BBB?), it does show the a particular vender is willing to take the extra steps towards protecting its consumers from fraud and in showing it is in fact capable and willing to take responsibility for its actions.

Make what the accreditation requirements be up to the public.  Take polls.  Etc.  The idea itself isn't bad, the portion of it being part of a private group is what makes it just not work in my eyes.

Also, even mentioning the BBB, oh man, that is just giving me bad feelings all over about having any groups trying to give stamps as to what is okay or not.

I am offering no solutions to the problems, but I just do not feel the UABB is one.

That's what I'm talking about when I asked for tweaking of the business model! All humor aside, although the pic's funny:

The BTC Acme Catalog would like to become accredited with UABB. As always, the polls open at noon and will close in 24 hours. Let your vote decide if this is a viable company and should be allowed to carry the UABB logo (stamp of approval) on its website.

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August 04, 2011, 04:01:52 AM
 #104


Do you see any way that the UABB business model can be tweaked to better serve the Bitcoin community?

Not with the present leader/owner.

Frankly the only way I see it working would be a parallel client/blockchain whereby payors validate that transactions from payees were satisfactory. A huge undertaking, but theoretically possible.

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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August 04, 2011, 04:06:16 AM
 #105

Although not having a UABB accreditation says absolutely nothing as to whether your business is 'legitimate' or not (is every business in the US accredited by the BBB?), it does show the a particular vender is willing to take the extra steps towards protecting its consumers from fraud and in showing it is in fact capable and willing to take responsibility for its actions.

So do you run UABB like the BBB runs their company?

1. customer complains about your company to BBB
2. BBB gets you to pay them $$$ to remove the complaint

all BBB accreditation tells me about a company is that they can afford to keep paying off the BBB to hide the complaints.

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August 04, 2011, 04:08:58 AM
 #106

Do you see any way that the UABB business model can be tweaked to better serve the Bitcoin community?

There are ways to tweak and adjust the model to work better. But I'm not going to put them out here to help a rather, IMO, dubious character improve his chances of getting a potential racket off the ground.

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August 04, 2011, 04:12:59 AM
 #107

BOBS - Bunch of Bullshit   

Why does Bitrebel have 65+ Ignores?
Because Bitrebel says things that some people do not want YOU to hear.
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August 04, 2011, 04:22:47 AM
 #108

LOL

Anonymous BITCOIN Exchange: https://www.TRADEHILL.COM
BillX
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August 04, 2011, 04:25:06 AM
 #109


Do you see any way that the UABB business model can be tweaked to better serve the Bitcoin community?

Yes, to close shop and let another company fill the void (if there is one) that the "UABB" left.
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August 04, 2011, 04:25:10 AM
 #110

ctoon6: Just for clarification, unless someone felt that doing business with a particularly risky and choose the optional escrow services, there would be no handling of any consumer or merchant funds. The UABB simply provides standards for businesses to follow that would provide more accountability for merchants as well as reduce the potential for fraudulent transactions towards and even from consumers.

Although not having a UABB accreditation says absolutely nothing as to whether your business is 'legitimate' or not (is every business in the US accredited by the BBB?), it does show the a particular vender is willing to take the extra steps towards protecting its consumers from fraud and in showing it is in fact capable and willing to take responsibility for its actions.

A lousy accreditation that does absolutely nothing to deter accredited organisations is worse than no accreditation body.

The presence of an accreditation makes naive consumers think an organisation/business might be better than another. But the fact is most of these accreditation and certifications are just to make money for the accreditation body.

One of the shopping malls in my country gotten a bad rep for certain dubious shops for a few years. So they started this internal accreditation in hope of promoting better service and business practises. Initially this work, then all the bad shops got the idea and put on an act to get the badge. Then it's back to the usual routine.

Nevermind some unknown accreditation, let's just talk about international certifications like the ISO certifications. It also aims to provide standards for businesses to follow and such. But all it really does is create more paperwork and pay the ISO certification body. Most of small to medium companies I've seen that struggle to get the certification done in order to gain a halo of superiority over competitors simply ignore the standards/requirements except on paper after they get certified. iSome just scramble to get the paperwork in order before an audit.


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August 04, 2011, 04:49:48 AM
 #111

I would find it deeply and darkly amusing if the UABB guy and the MyBitCoin guy were one in the same.

Surely Mr. MBC would be keeping a low profile, but if he really had balls of steel, 'spearheading an investigation' into the crime and collecting all of the available data about it could be all kinds of useful.

That's thinkin' outside the Bitcoin mining rig. That could easily be a justifiable concern. Therefore, due diligence is also warranted when it comes to a new start-up, especially when Bitcoin is concerned. Please offer any proof found to this community and, I for one, will jump on your bandwagon to help expose the fraud.


I'm not looking for any proof.  I certainly never claimed that it was true that Mr. MBC and Mr. UABB guy are the same person...just that it would be amusing if so...particularly if he got some chumps to offer financial assistance for his 'spearhead'.

I very much doubt the hypothesis that I stated...or actually, that I didn't state.  Mr. MBC was clearly a pretty capable guy.  Mr UABB seems to me like the clown of the earth.

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August 04, 2011, 05:10:03 AM
 #112

I agree with you. It would be despicable if our accreditation were to end up like that, but I don't plan on ever letting that happen.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I doubt any of these organisations started out intending to be despicable. But humans are humans.


Quote
Unlike meatscape accreditation, where a human would need to physically visit an establishment and pretend to be a customer just to check and see if members are still following the guidelines, we can do so much more than that, and in an almost automated fashion given the possible technology that could be put behind it.

Right, so now you expect organisations to open up holes for you to survey and monitor internal processes through automated tools?

Quote
Also, the UABB is not an accreditation, it is a consumer and business education and feedback site. It provides option accreditation. We're also non-profit.

By having the option there, it's a psychological nudge.

Apart from that, like I said, Bitcoin is still too much in its infancy to allow a single authority on who's trustworthy and who isn't. Nor should it ever be the case that a monopoly (or even a duo/oligopoly) on that be established. Especially when there are so many examples of how feedback systems can be abused on Paypal and eBay, and on forums by people creating accounts and bouncing transactions/feedback to build up credibility before scamming.

Last but not least, you are not very confidence-inspiring given your conduct so far.

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August 04, 2011, 05:17:43 AM
 #113

The amount of effort you take to defend yourself is bordering on insane...

There is like 5 threads bashing you...  you have 50 percent of the postings in each...

just sayin

For Canadians by Canadians: Canada's Bitcoin Community - https://www.coinforum.ca/
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August 04, 2011, 05:19:33 AM
 #114

Matthew N. Wright, I have lost 0 on mybitcoin.com, since I have never used it other than to open an account.
Despite that, what would it take ($$$) for you to re-open/continue your investigation?

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August 04, 2011, 05:25:55 AM
 #115

The amount of effort you take to defend yourself is bordering on insane...

There is like 5 threads bashing you...  you have 50 percent of the postings in each...

just sayin

It is insane and he needs help from a mental health provider.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

    Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
    Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
    Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
    Requires excessive admiration
    Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
    Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
    Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
    Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
    Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
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August 04, 2011, 05:26:10 AM
 #116

Last but not least, you are not very confidence-inspiring given your conduct so far.
This project will be much bigger than me and it is something that the community desperately needs (not talking about the accreditation). It'll get done even if I don't do it.

Some kind of system is needed yes, but IMO it's not what you've drawn up, nor at this point in time. While the instinct is to panic and start calling the police to patrol the neighbourhood, it's better in the long run to let the tech folks learn from the fiasco, put in the technical measures to improve the system, letting the economy grow into something more sizable and sustainable before letting a few auditing organisations into the picture.

ONE single over-sight/audit/accreditation body/system/organisation is worse than none.

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August 04, 2011, 05:32:20 AM
 #117

THis is my first visit to this thread...the poll response I would have wanted to click would have been:

"It sounds like a good idea but I am not convinced that the person proposing to start it is qualified to operate and manage such a thing or knows what he is really getting into."

And while it's all dandy that the 1 BTC artwork issue is resolved, I'm not quite sure that Mr. Wright would make a very skilled arbitrator based on how that all went.  That's part of what the BBB does.  (I assume this is modeled after BBB, particularly given the similarity in logo).  And the assertion that he can chase down MyBitcoin doesn't strike me as credible.

Great if I'm wrong though - I'd also be likely to take a chance on it as well, knowing that my identity is pretty much in the open and I'm not really out much if it flops.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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August 04, 2011, 05:47:52 AM
 #118

ONE single over-sight/audit/accreditation body/system/organisation is worse than none.

I'm listening. Since you're actually speaking intelligently, I'm actually listening. (Amazing how that works, eh trolls?)

If there are enough arguments against it, we might actually close down the UABB eventually. For now though, I truly believe it's a worthwhile project mainly due to rampit fraud in the forum alone. Having a new thread entitled "blah blah scammed me" is way less productive and trustable, then 100 users on the same business site with various comments, positive and negative about a business and their experiences with it.

THIS is needed, save anything else.

Like others have mentioned repeatedly, prove it with actions. Every time you "open your mouth" here, you just make me (and likely others) less willing to trust you.

And please do it in your personal capacity, not create some grandiose organisation. When the bitcoin economy is large enough to need, use and sustain a proper auditing organisation, the community as a whole, inline with the spirit of Bitcoin, would know who are the people who should be nominated into such an organisation.

Of course if you aren't one of them, then it would be a good time to restart UABB so you can act as the countercheck Wink

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August 04, 2011, 06:02:27 AM
 #119

It seems to me that the entities people are most concerned about are the exchanges and the online wallet services and obtaining financial services licences in their jurisdictions would do more to bind those services to a standard of conduct than any paid for endorsement by a newly established consumer group.  Short of expecting the exchanges and wallet services to hand over their accounting records, there's no way that UABB could legitimately verify their conduct as being totally above board - and no financial service provider in their right mind is going to hand over those records for a currently meaningless tick of approval.

That really leaves merchants as the ones who might be willing to pay for some kind of accreditation - if they believe that the fee they'll be paying for that accreditation will be more than offset by increased revenue and profit.  As those merchants are located all over the planet, it will be interesting to see what kind of accreditation process is planned and how it's going to be implemented across many different locations.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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August 04, 2011, 06:18:23 AM
 #120

Besides the obvious tell tale signs that this guy is full of shit.

1) the constant need to defend himself
2) the pure ignorance to see that he's the primary cause of his own demise through above behavior, not the "trolls"
3) using terms like "lollerskates" "kthnxbye" and other teenager internet talk
4) not having any sense of professionalism
5) the wikipedia page reference links surrounding his school he "owned" not actually existing
6) constantly berating and insulting the community he's trying to win over
7) list goes on and on
Cool conversing about life stories with an idiot 17 year old named atlas (might be atlas)

It's safe to say that he probably has no prior knowledge to anything business related other than maybe a class or two at some community college, and that would even be a surprise because i really can't fathom this kid is older than 17. I doubt he has anyone working for him, as there is no proof other than a sloppily made website that reads like once again, a teenager created it. In all honesty it's probably some kid at home who wanted to be involved or embraced by a cool new thing and made up a bunch of shit. I would be absolutely floored if any of what he claimed was true, as i have never met such a naive and childish person that is an owner of anything beyond a lemonade stand.

If i'm somehow wrong about any of this, you need a class in PR. I don't think mcdonalds got where they are today by insulting their consumer base and having the CEO arguing with people on forums.
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