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Author Topic: anyone successfully arbitrage trade bitcoins  (Read 3335 times)
PenAndPaper
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November 22, 2013, 03:54:33 AM
 #21

I did it once with my Janpan friend through Mt.Gox two days ago with 60 BTC, and both of us made a solid 8,000 USD in a commercial break time.

yes but to repeat the cycle you need to move money across continents.
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kireinaha
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November 22, 2013, 04:15:11 AM
 #22

As others have said, depositing USD to BTC-E is damn near impossible, and there have been several threads recently on this forum that speak of BTC-E receiving ACH transfer but failing to deposit the money into accounts for long stretches of time, and sometimes not at all. Even if you have access to a bank account in Japan to withdraw JPY from Gox, it seems the financial risk is too high to warrant the trouble.

It seems that a bitcoin based economy could resolve these hassles (until government banking regulations step in, anyway) but if such a reality existed, there likely wouldn`t be any opportunity for arbitrage anyway, since the exchanges would have similar prices.
Can you point out the threads about btc-e.  They take wires don't they?

Here are two that I`ve seen recently which raised warning flags. Also, they upped the minimum wire transfer from $500 to $2000 today. I`d be very hesitant to wire that level of money to a foreign exchange on trust alone.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334039.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=307729.0

I know they have other deposit options, but they all seem to be European based and from what I can tell they don`t allow American customers due to stringent US banking regulations.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
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November 22, 2013, 04:22:06 AM
 #23

...

I know they have other deposit options, but they all seem to be European based and from what I can tell they don`t allow American customers due to stringent US banking regulations.
Do you have a source for "they don't allow American customers"?
kireinaha
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November 22, 2013, 04:30:23 AM
 #24

Do you have a source for "they don't allow American customers"?

I know for a fact that OKPay doesn`t anymore, and that seemed to be the preferred method for awhile. There might be other options available for Americans, but they likely charge high fees which would cut into the arbitrage profits.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
zby
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November 22, 2013, 05:30:32 AM
 #25

On Monday I tried to do some arbitrage via bitcurex (the price in PLN was also quite a bit higher than the one in USD on bitstamp) - but so far it looks like I lost my 10BTC - bitcurex has not yet credited my account yet, does not reply to support tickets, and then I found other reports of similar events on a Polish forum.
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November 22, 2013, 07:55:33 AM
 #26

Is btcchina.com set up to withdraw to Chinese bank accounts?

If I were in China would I be able to get a China bank account?

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dahongfei
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November 22, 2013, 09:03:25 AM
 #27

In the UK you can get a chinese currency bank account with Bank of China (there are 4 branches here, 1 an hour from where I live).  But I'm uncertain if you could withdraw from BTC China (directly or via tenpay) to it.  Is this possible in the USA?  

Failing that, if you could just uproot, quit your job and live anywhere for a year to arb bitcoin would Beijing be THE optimal place to do it?  The biggest arbs seem to be between BTC-e and BtcChina, is it easy to fund BTC-e from China?  

Sadly you can't. CNY can not be sent outside of China via any bank/payment system. It's forbidden by law.
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November 22, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
 #28

anyone chinese forum members here use bitcoin china to trade? there is a bank od china located in canada im pretty sure you dont have to be a chinese citizen to open an account with them.

would this be compatable with bitcoin china exchange
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November 22, 2013, 09:12:02 AM
 #29

The problem is that since Dwolla dropped Bitcoin, there is no quick way to move fiat. If you have dollars on CampBX, you can indeed buy BTC and sell them for a profit on another exchange. You then have to collect those dollars, and then snail mail a money order to CampBX to repeat the process.

Even when (if) CampBX gets ACH transfers working, the dollar side of arbitrage will take about a week. With the current volatility that is an extreme risk if your goal is to accumulate Bitcoins. If you're ok with dollars you can lock in a profit.

yeah moving the money quickly seems to be the biggest obstacle , my idea was to buy on btc-e and sell on mt,gox

rinse and repeat

But then you can't even withdraw USD on mtgox, if it was really that simple everyone would've been doing this since the start and due to the demand from this exploit the price gap between exchanges would've already disappeared.

GigaCoin
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November 22, 2013, 09:13:35 AM
 #30

On Monday I tried to do some arbitrage via bitcurex (the price in PLN was also quite a bit higher than the one in USD on bitstamp) - but so far it looks like I lost my 10BTC - bitcurex has not yet credited my account yet, does not reply to support tickets, and then I found other reports of similar events on a Polish forum.

That's almost $8000 ! Sorry you had to go through such trouble, I hope you can recover that  Smiley

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November 22, 2013, 09:18:38 AM
 #31

The problem is that since Dwolla dropped Bitcoin, there is no quick way to move fiat. If you have dollars on CampBX, you can indeed buy BTC and sell them for a profit on another exchange. You then have to collect those dollars, and then snail mail a money order to CampBX to repeat the process.

Even when (if) CampBX gets ACH transfers working, the dollar side of arbitrage will take about a week. With the current volatility that is an extreme risk if your goal is to accumulate Bitcoins. If you're ok with dollars you can lock in a profit.

yeah moving the money quickly seems to be the biggest obstacle , my idea was to buy on btc-e and sell on mt,gox

rinse and repeat

Good Luck Getting cash out of Gox is like 4 weeks

There are cases on Facebook who have been waiting for months, truly unfortunate to see this from (once) the largest Bitcoin exchange. I do hope they get their shit straight as i actually like Gox and willing to give them one last chance.

kireinaha
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November 22, 2013, 09:51:52 AM
 #32

Since BTC-E is so difficult to deposit USD to, maybe a better option would be to send a check deposit to bitstamp. Buy your coins and send them to BTCChina; you will then need to find a partner in China or move there yourself. Open a bank account and withdrawal your CNY. This is where it gets really tricky -- it is forbidden by law to wire the money out of China. One option is to withdrawal to cash, but you would then be smuggling the money out of the country by plane which presents a high risk that it could be confiscated. They have dogs that can sniff it out at the airports, as I`ve heard on this forum. Sounds bad.

Perhaps you could exchange the cash for precious gems and shove them up your ass when you leave the country. That might work, but good luck setting up the bank account and then converting the cash to precious commodities... I`ve been to China. Beijing mind you, and it was a clusterfuck to get anything done as a foreigner. They have no sense of queues or waiting for turns and as a Westerner you will likely be cheated if you don`t know exactly what you`re doing. Shanghai is probably a bit nicer in this regard though.

Edit: Better yet, you could send the money back to the US via a package? Still a bit risky, but probably safest and easiest option.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
tescomatty
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November 22, 2013, 10:07:33 AM
 #33

In the UK you can get a chinese currency bank account with Bank of China (there are 4 branches here, 1 an hour from where I live).  But I'm uncertain if you could withdraw from BTC China (directly or via tenpay) to it.  Is this possible in the USA?  

Failing that, if you could just uproot, quit your job and live anywhere for a year to arb bitcoin would Beijing be THE optimal place to do it?  The biggest arbs seem to be between BTC-e and BtcChina, is it easy to fund BTC-e from China?  

Sadly you can't. CNY can not be sent outside of China via any bank/payment system. It's forbidden by law.


And can you create USD account as well, convert CNY to USD and withdaw your USD ?

kireinaha
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November 22, 2013, 10:10:14 AM
 #34

In the UK you can get a chinese currency bank account with Bank of China (there are 4 branches here, 1 an hour from where I live).  But I'm uncertain if you could withdraw from BTC China (directly or via tenpay) to it.  Is this possible in the USA?  

Failing that, if you could just uproot, quit your job and live anywhere for a year to arb bitcoin would Beijing be THE optimal place to do it?  The biggest arbs seem to be between BTC-e and BtcChina, is it easy to fund BTC-e from China?  

Sadly you can't. CNY can not be sent outside of China via any bank/payment system. It's forbidden by law.


And can you create USD account as well, convert CNY to USD and withdaw your USD ?

Nationals can convert CNY to a maximum of $50,000 USD per year, which I believe applies to foreigners as well.

Night gathers, and now my bitcoinwisdom watch begins.
theecoinomist
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November 22, 2013, 10:32:12 AM
 #35

How would you go about getting USD into BTC-E without giving up your 1st born?


1% fee and cheaper coins, I think it's the best currently

alexout
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November 22, 2013, 11:57:13 AM
 #36

Easier just to hold on to the coins instead of risking getting fucked in the ass cuz bank xfers took 2-3 days while the price rose 30%.
Dargumin
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November 22, 2013, 12:22:04 PM
 #37

This is where it gets really tricky -- it is forbidden by law to wire the money out of China. One option is to withdrawal to cash, but you would then be smuggling the money out of the country by plane which presents a high risk that it could be confiscated. They have dogs that can sniff it out at the airports, as I`ve heard on this forum. Sounds bad.

Perhaps you could exchange the cash for precious gems and shove them up your ass when you leave the country. That might work, but good luck setting up the bank account and then converting the cash to precious commodities... I`ve been to China. Beijing mind you, and it was a clusterfuck to get anything done as a foreigner. They have no sense of queues or waiting for turns and as a Westerner you will likely be cheated if you don`t know exactly what you`re doing. Shanghai is probably a bit nicer in this regard though.

Edit: Better yet, you could send the money back to the US via a package? Still a bit risky, but probably safest and easiest option.

It seems that it's possible to take up to $10,000 out of China providing you have a licence.  Taken from Yahoo Answers:



The Chinese customs are very strict regarding the export of currency, if you have legally earned the RMB during your stay in China, then be advised to follow the procedure hereinafter listed. The difference between the official and open market exchange rates is not tempting enough to risk illegal transaction, there is only a difference of a couple of maos but you will not get any official reciept to prove that you have exchanged your money legally.By the way Yao Bao Lu offers a better rate than Ya Show orf San Li Tun.

Under the rules of State Administration of Foreign Exchange, if you (a domestic resident or an overseas individual) carry foreign currency cash out of China more than the amount declared in last record of immigrating into China or there is no record of your foreign currency cash declared in your previous immigrating into China, and you want to bring a certain sum of foreign currency cash getting out of China, you must apply a Certificate of Carrying Foreign Currency and declare at Customs.

If you have foreign currency deposited in a Chinese bank, and you need to withdraw a certain amount of cash to get out of China, you may apply at the original Bank deposit office, the bank will issue Certificate of Carrying Foreign Currency according to the national regulation.

☆Operation Guide
1. You don’t need to apply the License for taking USD 5,000 (inclusive) or equivalent. Customs will let you go, except you travel across the boarder in one day or within a short period.

2. To apply for a Certificate of Carrying Foreign Currency for amount from USD 5,000 to USD 10,000 (inclusive) or equivalent, you should take ICBC deposit voucher, your passport or efficient visa. At departure, Customs will let you go by checking if Certificate of Carrying Foreign Currency sealed by the bank.

3. If over USD 10,000 or equivalent is need to be brought out of China, you need to apply the certificate at branches of State Administration of Foreign Exchange (hereinafter referred as SAFE) located at the same place of the bank deposit office or the bank branch where you deposit or purchase foreign currency. Customs will let you go by checking if the License is sealed by SAFE or not.

4. If multiple certificates are used and the cumulative sum of all certificates sealed by the bank is over USD 10,000 or equivalent, Customs will not let you go.

5. The Certificate is valid once within 30 days from the issue date.

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Dargumin
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November 22, 2013, 01:34:43 PM
 #38

Now presumably even if you manage to pull off a juicy 25% arb and turn $8k to $10k its just not worth it (ok maybe worth 1 time just for a free holiday!).  Hong Kong/ Macau on the other hand may provide options...

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-31/in-macau-pawnshops-bankroll-mainland-gamblers

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PenAndPaper
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November 22, 2013, 02:25:02 PM
 #39

Easier just to hold on to the coins instead of risking getting fucked in the ass cuz bank xfers took 2-3 days while the price rose 30%.

You don't have to buy right away after funding an account.
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November 22, 2013, 02:55:50 PM
 #40

I imagine there are thousands doing it successfully.

Anyone complaining about moving around money on crypto exchanges, try practically every online poker site experience since the beginning of time. Americans seem to be in a particular world of hurt on both counts, but for rest of world it's manageable.

I do wonder though, maybe I can hire a Chinese assistant to set me up bank account on the mainland ...  Grin
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