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Author Topic: Domain Ownership: bitcoin.com  (Read 239 times)
audaciousbeing
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April 30, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
 #21

There are so many examples of how domains can be forcefully transferred to another party, here are just two:

RICHARD BRANSON: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/21/richard_branson_xxx/

FRANCE.COM: http://www.alphr.com/business/1009214/france-seize-france-com-domain

So considering Roger Ver and his bitcoin.com domain is deliberately (or otherwise) all about "Bitcoin Cash" and is not about "Bitcoin" and the downloads lead to Bitcoin Cash wallets then should the bitcoin.org team try to take the bitcoin.com domain from Ver?

Too many people are conflating Bitcoin with Bitcoin Cash when it comes to anything from bitcoin.com and even sending funds from Bitcoin Cash wallets to Bitcoin wallets and vice-versa.

It's either he willingly let it go, or not but the only authority that can force him to give it up would be a law court and that would only be served on the host of the website itself or he is arrested for contempt of court aside that there is nothing that can make him drop that domain as that would worth a whole lot of money at this time. What I expect that he should do is to change the name to what he  believes at this time and stop causing confusion all over the internet and I won't even support the idea that it should be forcefully taken because going that route would even negate the whole of to what freedom stands for as it has even added more value to crypto before he switched sides.
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DooMAD
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April 30, 2018, 05:39:28 PM
 #22

It's not factually correct for anyone to claim that BCH is Bitcoin, since they have neither the accumulated proof of work, nor the economic majority to backup that claim.  

so australia should not use "dollar" because america has more population

the solution is simple
"bitcoin" is for conversational purposes the same conversation nations have about "dollar"

in conversations with people that ask for a dollar. .. ask 'is that US or AU you want'
in conversations with people that ask for a bitcoin. .. ask 'is that core or cash you want'

as long as australia dont charge the US rate... as long as america dont charge the AU rate
as long as cash dont charge the core rate... as long as core dont charge the cash rate

then there is no conflict or fraud.. its just opening the mind to the broader conversation and understanding of decentralisation

like i said..
australians will continue to say they have "99 dollars but the U.S aint one" no matter how much america want to cry they own the dollar
americans will continue to say they have "99 dollars but the A.U aint one" no matter how much australia want to cry they own the dollar

whats next..
india Vs pakistan fight over "rupee"
Mexico Vs Philippines fight over "peso"
 .. based on what.. population

That's certainly a helpful analogy, which I don't disagree with (apart form one bit I'll come to shortly), but it's not quite an accurate representation of what is happening here.  The issue isn't their usage of the "Bitcoin" name for their chain itself (at least for me, anyway.  But I can't speak for everyone here).  

The crux of it is the bitcoin.com website isn't making a clear enough distinction that their incompatible currency is something different to the one which some inexperienced buyers are expecting to obtain when they mistakenly buy the wrong one.  A small part of the blame does fall on them for being careless, but a much larger proportion of the blame can be directly attributed to the way in which bitcoin.com are marketing their version of the "dollar", as if there is only one and it's supposedly theirs.  It's flagrantly manipulative.

To use your analogy, if you had freshly arrived from another planet and knew nothing about human fiat currency, you went to a local currency exchanger and requested to buy dollars, but ended up being given Canadian dollars when you wanted New Zealand dollars because the exchanger you used had a financial interest in New Zealand dollars, you wouldn't be very happy about it.  There needs to be some serious and noticeable effort on the part of bitcoin.com to disambiguate between the two distinct currencies for this issue to be resolved without further escalation.

As for the bit I disagree with:

in conversations with people that ask for a bitcoin. .. ask 'is that core or cash you want'

Doesn't that somewhat undermine your own previous argument:
do you want a central team core owning bitcoin.

You rightly point out that the Core team don't own Bitcoin, but then you yourself call one of the chains "Core" in an attempt to differentiate it from Bitcoin Cash.  Calling it the "Core chain" is factually incorrect and you're making the same mistake bitcoin.com are making.  Core don't own the BTC chain either.

A better example of what could be asked is for clarity would be:
in conversations with people that ask for a bitcoin. .. ask 'is that BTC or BCH you want?'

Not only is it more neutral, but also clearly indicates that no one owns either chain.

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JollyGood (OP)
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May 03, 2018, 06:51:45 PM
 #23

Many people are going to lose their bitcoins when they think the bitcoin cash wallets being downloaded from bitcoin com website as bitcoin wallets. I don't think Ver realizes here that he is playing with peoples dream and money here and he should be made liable for it. I hope the lawsuit coming up against him succeeds.

At the moment the lawsuit against Ver is just hearsay and nothing has been confirmed. It will take lots of people donating a few coins to gather enough traction for the process to start and even then there is no guarantee Ver will lose. One thing is for sure Ver will fight any attempt of liability against him and ironically he will use FIAT money gained from selling Bitcoins to pay the best lawyers to protect his name and Bitcoin Cash.

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franky1
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May 03, 2018, 08:43:01 PM
 #24

You rightly point out that the Core team don't own Bitcoin, but then you yourself call one of the chains "Core" in an attempt to differentiate it from Bitcoin Cash.  Calling it the "Core chain" is factually incorrect and you're making the same mistake bitcoin.com are making.  Core don't own the BTC chain either.

Not only is it more neutral, but also clearly indicates that no one owns either chain.

lol
your funny
(core own the core chain(the one with cores rules, core bips, core policies. the one with cores segwit)
yes. the one that you can only change the network if you use cores BIPs process and then get into cores github code.


the bitcoin core chain does not and should not own the brand "bitcoin"
core can USE the brand bitcoin core. but cannot try to censor decentralisation by saying only core should own bitcoin
locally within the cabin fever, people can for abreviate say "i have 99 bitcoins but a cash aint one"

the bitcoin cash chain does not and should not own the brand "bitcoin"
cash can USE the brand bitcoin cash. but cannot try to censor decentralisation by saying only cash should own bitcoin
locally within the cabin fever, people can for abreviate say "i have 99 bitcoins but a core aint one"

the U.S dollar banking system does not and should not own the brand "dollar"
U.S can USE the brand dollar. but cannot try to censor independance by saying only the U.S should own dollar
locally within the cabin fever, people can for abreviate say "i have 99 dollars but a canadian aint one"


maybe you are toooo deep in the mindset of the bitcoin core network being "bitcoin" that you cant see beyond the cabin door in the cabin fever you locked yourself into

take a few steps back. and clear your mind. think of the BILATERAL fork as a TWO way split (hint:fork) and realise NEITHER are the original.
again
think core as america and cash as canada

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
franky1
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May 03, 2018, 08:57:23 PM
 #25

There needs to be some serious and noticeable effort on the part of bitcoin.com to disambiguate between the two distinct currencies for this issue to be resolved without further escalation.

using the analogy
shouldnt bitcoin.org do the same and disambiguate between the two and not promote core as just "bitcoin"

or
thinking using the dollar analogy

swap.com for new zealand and org for U.S

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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May 04, 2018, 01:53:19 PM
Last edit: May 04, 2018, 02:05:39 PM by DooMAD
 #26

(core own the core chain(the one with cores rules, core bips, core policies. the one with cores segwit)
yes. the one that you can only change the network if you use cores BIPs process and then get into cores github code.

That's certainly one interpretation.  Another would be that a significant proportion of network participants are happy with the way that works and allow it to continue.  Even if you personally aren't happy with the Core BIPs, SegWit, et al, there isn't enough opposition to the way things are being done for a supermajority of participants to feel it necessary to change it.  But it doesn't mean that the Core team "own" anything, or that they and only they can make the sole decisions.  That's an oversimplification.  Ultimately, people are still free not to run that code if they don't agree with the changes being made.  


the bitcoin core chain does not and should not own the brand "bitcoin"
core can USE the brand bitcoin core. but cannot try to censor decentralisation by saying only core should own bitcoin

And along with that, as above, they don't own the BTC chain either.  It just so happens that most of the non-mining full nodes and the miners currently agree with their implementation.

in conversations with people that ask for a bitcoin. .. ask 'is that core or cash you want'

So you're calling it the Core chain as if they do own it, but they don't.  They're one of the dev teams working on the BTC chain.  Other clients and developers exist.

As an example, I wouldn't ask 'is that "Bitcoin" or "Bitcoin ABC" you want', because they're just one of the dev teams in BCH and Bitcoin ABC don't own the BCH chain.  I'm not arguing the point you're making, just that you're guilty of the same thing.  

Just keep it simple and call them:

"BTC" or "Bitcoin"
"BCH" or "Bitcoin Cash"

Because those are their names.  It's not "Bitcoin Core" or "Bitcoin ABC", unless you are referring to a specific dev team's repository and the code contained therein.  Chains aren't named after dev teams.



Further, I direct your attention to DannyHamilton's post in another thread to reinforce those points.

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May 04, 2018, 05:04:04 PM
 #27

If only Satoshi has registered Bitcoin.com the same time as Bitcoin.org was registered

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