NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[ZeroTheGreat]

Because hallmarked nodes are given priority over a normal node without a hallmark any day. And right now, a majority of nodes are controlled by a handful of people. I can set up 1000 nodes, but without a hallmark, most of the traffic will flow through hallmarked servers. So in the end, it was the stake that decided the outcome, not the action.

How VS in your eyes'll change situation like that to better one ? I was asking about that.

You seem to think that majority of stakeholders = majority of node owners. This is not the case. For example, I have my hallmark on one of ferment's VPS's. Are you saying that he get's my votes simply because I don't have a VPS that can be up 24/7 with a static IP? Are we going to require every user to sign up for their own VPS so they can have a voice? Voting is completely decentralized and every account will be accountable for their vote (because of their stake) so it is not possible to game the system. This seems fair to me.

I don't care about actual algo. I was talking about idea of voting.

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[pandaisftw]

Let's apply your logic to the issue at hand: the voting system. You don't like it and I like it. Of course, you have supporters and and I also have supporters. So by your logic, developers should just implement the voting feature. If you and your supporters don't like it, just don't install it and don't vote. Isn't it that what you want ?

Or because you are so superior than me and the developers should just listen to what you say and ignore my request ?

At least if there is a voting system in place, you and your supporters can try to vote to disable that feature. That's what you should plan to do if you really want it, not by pleading to developers to ignore my request.

This is a very good argument.

[xyzzyx]

Why here: http://22k.io/account/3283108578452123518 all transactions have "Alias assignment" as recipient?

Can you shorten months to 3-letters? And sort transactions by timestamp with freshest on top?
Some In/Out icon would be nice too.

I added all of these. The icon isn't perfect but it's better than nothing!

Thanks!

I never liked the right/left arrows to represent in/out.  Their initial interpretation depends on the direction of the reader's written language (think English vs Hebrew), and perhaps the viewer's concept of the flow-of-time -- where, in that person's mind, things in the past are experienced in relation to things in the future.

Perhaps something like these quick sketches might be clearer?



Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg4373268#msg4373268   Damn, you're fast.

[ZeroTheGreat]

By specialists, if you means developers like BCNext, CfB and Luc, then they already plan to add voting feature. Why don't you do what you wrote here ? Let them decide ?

Ofc, something'll happen and I'm not going to stop anybody from coding any feature he wants to code. I'm just asking questions. For me it seems so opposite to whole pack of ideas in Nxt, so I concerned about one single feature: Global Voting.

[pandaisftw]

Because hallmarked nodes are given priority over a normal node without a hallmark any day. And right now, a majority of nodes are controlled by a handful of people. I can set up 1000 nodes, but without a hallmark, most of the traffic will flow through hallmarked servers. So in the end, it was the stake that decided the outcome, not the action.

How VS in your eyes'll change situation like that to better one ? I was asking about that.

I was just pointing out that nodes without weights (non-hallmarked. Hallmarking requires static IP, meaning VPS or dedicated server) will support the network, but the network will always trust a hallmarked node more. Recently, we have had zombie nodes attempting to spread false packets throughout the network, but hallmark makes it too expensive for them to truly attack the network in a large scale.

You seem to think that majority of stakeholders = majority of node owners. This is not the case. For example, I have my hallmark on one of ferment's VPS's. Are you saying that he get's my votes simply because I don't have a VPS that can be up 24/7 with a static IP? Are we going to require every user to sign up for their own VPS so they can have a voice? Voting is completely decentralized and every account will be accountable for their vote (because of their stake) so it is not possible to game the system. This seems fair to me.

I don't care about actual algo. I was talking about idea of voting.

Voting in a decentralized network is consensus. I mean, it doesn't really get more decentralized than that... votes here can't be rigged and cannot be controlled, everyone has a say equal to their stake.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I tried to understand it couple of days ago, but I left the site after 10 mins because I was confused and still didn't understood it. So it's not made for me, right?

That main goal of that coin is to make the world better. I was born in USSR and I'm a communist on 99%.

[NxtChg]

Another 2 withdrawals disappeared into aether. Argh!

What global voting, what distributed exchange? Make what's already in there work first...

[Come-from-Beyond]

Perhaps something like these quick sketches might be clearer?

Let me guess... Green arrows is a withdrawal (deflation of the balance) and red ones is a deposit (inflation of the balance)?

[ZeroTheGreat]

Let's apply your logic to the issue at hand: the voting system. You don't like it and I like it. Of course, you have supporters and and I also have supporters.

Correct.

So by your logic, developers should just implement the voting feature. If you and your supporters don't like it, just don't install it and don't vote. Isn't it that what you want ?

Incorrect.
1) Dev'd anything they like to do. So far I'm not paying them for work, do I don't care much and, more important, have no right to command;
2) I'm asking questions and later dealing with answers. So far I've to do nothing, VS still not implemented.

Or because you are so superior than me and the developers should just listen to what you say and ignore my request ?

?! They'd do whatever they want. I'm defending free will, not denying it.

At least if there is a voting system in place, you and your supporters can try to vote to disable that feature. That's what you should plan to do if you really want it, not by pleading to developers to ignore my request.

All those features weren't requested. Were suggested. And discussion'll continue. My request: no Global Voting in first place. And if it'll be implemented, I'll deal with it. Try to disable, or pick another project, or may be stick around if risks will be too low in my stimation until they'll grow.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Another 2 withdrawals disappeared into aether. Argh!

What global voting, what distributed exchange? Make what's already in there work first...

What deadline do u use?

[dzarmush]

By specialists, if you means developers like BCNext, CfB and Luc, then they already plan to add voting feature. Why don't you do what you wrote here ? Let them decide ?

Yes, that's how I think it should be. If specialists think it's for good then let's go for it. But we can help them to make a decision by discussing it. That's what we're doing right now.

[NxtChg]

Let me guess... Green arrows is a withdrawal (deflation of the balance) and red ones is a deposit (inflation of the balance)?

Good one

[xyzzyx]

Perhaps something like these quick sketches might be clearer?

Let me guess... Green arrows is a withdrawal (deflation of the balance) and red ones is a deposit (inflation of the balance)?

Color was only an after-thought -- original sketches were black and white.  Don't need color.

[ZeroTheGreat]

By specialists, if you means developers like BCNext, CfB and Luc, then they already plan to add voting feature. Why don't you do what you wrote here ? Let them decide ?

Yes, that's how I think it should be. If specialists think it's for good then let's go for it. But we can help them to make a decision by discussing it. That's what we're doing right now.

Exactly. Still: which problem can be solved by Global Voting, but can't be solved by actions of Nxters? I don't see even 1, but risks appear.

[NxtChg]

What deadline do u use?

I didn't touch it. You said it's best not to reduce it and I didn't.

Maybe it has something to do with VPN? Unreliable broadcasting? But shouldn't NRS expect unreliable networks and auto-rebroadcast?

And to add insult to injury it also says "The money is sent."

[NxtChg]

Color was only an after-thought -- original sketches were black and white.  Don't need color.

You missed the point. The meaning is subjective and you cannot assume that "arrows in" is a universal symbol for deposits.

[ZeroTheGreat]

I'm talking about voting without leaving the system.

Don't you see: it makes path to forcing part of community to follow some winner (center)?

I can't lose in voting by actions. In worst case I'll die as free person.

Please, visit a website in my signature. That coin is for people like u.

How decentralization connects with built-in possible center in your point of view? In BCNext's (he suggest Global Voting?)? No project can be born, survive and be managed without built-out center, that's normal, every P2P-system have creators and main supporters (thanks for them for better future of all of us!).

[Come-from-Beyond]

What deadline do u use?

I didn't touch it. You said it's best not to reduce it and I didn't.

Maybe it has something to do with VPN? Unreliable broadcasting? But shouldn't NRS expect unreliable networks and auto-rebroadcast?

And to add insult to injury it also says "The money is sent."

Auto-rebroadcasting would help, for now adjust ur time by minus 2 hours.

[xyzzyx]

Color was only an after-thought -- original sketches were black and white.  Don't need color.

You missed the point. The meaning is subjective and you cannot assume that "arrows in" is a universal symbol for deposits.

I think we're actually on the same page.  As I wrote previously, "I never liked the right/left arrows to represent in/out.  Their initial interpretation depends on the direction of the reader's written language (think English vs Hebrew), and perhaps the viewer's concept of the flow-of-time -- where, in that person's mind, things in the past are experienced in relation to things in the future."

I bring it up in the first place specifically because the left/right arrows tend to conflict with my own internal representations.

Ideally it should be a choice of the user to select what icons/graphics/etc best align with his or her own submodalities.  But, well, que sera, sera and all that.

[NxtChg]

I think we're actually on the same page.  As I wrote previously, "I never liked the right/left arrows to represent in/out.  Their initial interpretation depends on the direction of the reader's written language (think English vs Hebrew), and perhaps the viewer's concept of the flow-of-time -- where, in that person's mind, things in the past are experienced in relation to things in the future."

I bring it up in the first place specifically because the left/right arrows tend to conflict with my own internal representations.

Ideally it should be a choice of the user to select what icons/graphics/etc best align with his or her own submodalities.  But, well, que sera, sera and all that.

We're on the same page concerning the problem. I am not a big fan of current arrows either. But C-f-B made a damn good example of the age-old problem in iconography: you cannot assume universal meaning. Assigning your own icons sounds like fun, but it's not practical.