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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755395 times)
CrazyEyes
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February 05, 2014, 11:23:45 AM
 #29621

New hallmark added (chapter9.org), 40/40Mbit fiber (no traffic cap, and if someone pays me i can get it to 100/1000 Mbit, what counts is 100Mbit upstream i guess). Runs on a eight core amd 8350.

Regards
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nakaone
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February 05, 2014, 11:26:26 AM
 #29622

will trustless high frequency trading be possible when1000 transactions per seconds are possible
landomata
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February 05, 2014, 11:26:39 AM
 #29623

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

Do you know why it's slow?  

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February 05, 2014, 11:32:02 AM
 #29624

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

Do you know why it's slow?  

Two very fundamental reasons

1. each operation on the exchange (e.g. putting in a buy or sell order) has a 10 minute delay (because it requires 1 Bitcoin block to be solved)
2. because all counterparty transactions are simply nested inside the bitcoin blockchain, they are not automatically validated like native bitcoin transactions.  This means that in order to validate a transaction the counterparty clients must rewind back from the counterparty genesis/PoB transactions and revalidate to the present point, which is way more inefficient than in bitcoin, where the Merkel tree is able to speed things up.

Notable projects 2019: Semux, Dero, Wagerr, BEAM
swartzfeger
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February 05, 2014, 11:35:24 AM
 #29625

have you got all the donations you need for the reddit/facebook tip bot yet?

To start -- I was an ass to you upthread and could've directed you to a page explaining transparent forging but instead gave you a shitty, terse remark. Lack of caffeine is no excuse. Hope you can accept my mea culpa.

Yes. There wasn't a set amount for the reddit bounty, but there was a hope for 5000 NXT... it easily surpassed that and is over 25000 NXT.

The doge tipbot dev said the doge code isn't easily translatable (due to differences in JSON and python handling IIRC) but is willing to answer questions.

Facebook bounty -- there was never a set amount requested; 10000 is definitely a nice start!
EvilDave
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February 05, 2014, 11:36:42 AM
 #29626

Guys:
Been waiting for a good bumper sticker design, got bored and did one myself:

279mm x 76mm, when printed.
Would like feedback on it, might be good to have it in the hands of the guys at Berlin conference if it gets the green light

Leave your feedback on the marketing thread here on BTT:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412243.530
or on Nextcoin.org:
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3540.15.html

Going to bed now, really.

I don't get all the dark themes.
It makes it look, well, dark/evil/bad/star wars

Personally I would make the theme MUCH brighter. Give it a light airy look.
One of the USP's IS green / lightweight after all.

Hmmm...i like the drama of gold on black, but I can see your point. Maybe slightly too Evil....
I'll have a fiddle with colours if i get some time later on.
Any feedback on text or layout ?

Nulli Dei, nulli Reges, solum NXT
Love your money: www.nxt.org  www.ardorplatform.org
www.nxter.org  www.nxtfoundation.org
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February 05, 2014, 11:39:58 AM
 #29627

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

I'm fixing bugs and adding extra APIs. I wouldn't hurry, we already did it and got unusable client. Let's do it right way this time.
Also, BCNext chose a simple architecture for Nxt core, we can add anything with a little effort. None of the platforms based on Bitcoin blockchain (MSC et al.) is able to go on par with us.
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February 05, 2014, 11:40:47 AM
 #29628

I don't know if this has been answered or not, but have multi-transactions been implemented yet? For example, I can send to 50 different addresses in one transaction.

Otherwise, wouldn't distributing dividends to asset holders be extremely expensive for the dividend dispenser (assuming they have a large number of stakeholders)?

Fee will be lowered.

Yes, but that is a bandaid solution. What if eventually an asset has 1,000,000 share holders. Even with 2 decimal places, that is still 10,000 NXT to disperse dividends, which are usually small amounts.

I don't know if this has been answered or not, but have multi-transactions been implemented yet? For example, I can send to 50 different addresses in one transaction.

Otherwise, wouldn't distributing dividends to asset holders be extremely expensive for the dividend dispenser (assuming they have a large number of stakeholders)?

It's very easy to add multiple transactions.

fmiboy built a client that does this already: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=412138.msg4893098#msg4893098

Hm, did he say whether or not it was an actual multi-transaction? Or it just automated the sending of transactions many times? (Thus you would still pay the fee for each individual transaction)

I don't know if this has been answered or not, but have multi-transactions been implemented yet? For example, I can send to 50 different addresses in one transaction.

Otherwise, wouldn't distributing dividends to asset holders be extremely expensive for the dividend dispenser (assuming they have a large number of stakeholders)?

It's very easy to add multiple transactions.

Thanks, hopefully it'll be added before AE really takes off.

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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February 05, 2014, 11:41:30 AM
 #29629

will trustless high frequency trading be possible when1000 transactions per seconds are possible

No. There is a 60 second gap between blocks. U can't call it "high frequency trading".
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February 05, 2014, 11:41:56 AM
 #29630

Hmmm...i like the drama of gold on black, but I can see your point. Maybe slightly too Evil....
I'll have a fiddle with colours if i get some time later on.
Any feedback on text or layout ?

Form vs. function -- could you read that URL from the back of someone's car?

I could've 20 years ago. Probably not in 2014 (and definitely not at night).
landomata
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February 05, 2014, 11:45:03 AM
 #29631

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

Do you know why it's slow?  

Two very fundamental reasons

1. each operation on the exchange (e.g. putting in a buy or sell order) has a 10 minute delay (because it requires 1 Bitcoin block to be solved)
2. because all counterparty transactions are simply nested inside the bitcoin blockchain, they are not automatically validated like native bitcoin transactions.  This means that in order to validate a transaction the counterparty clients must rewind back from the counterparty genesis/PoB transactions and revalidate to the present point, which is way more inefficient than in bitcoin, where the Merkel tree is able to speed things up.

Are there any plans by Counterparty to change the above setups?

landomata
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February 05, 2014, 11:46:39 AM
 #29632

will trustless high frequency trading be possible when1000 transactions per seconds are possible

No. There is a 60 second gap between blocks. U can't call it "high frequency trading".

but it's ten times faster than counterparty & you mentioned that we can reduce the block forging time gap.

ChuckOne
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February 05, 2014, 11:51:33 AM
 #29633

Why should we set a price per operations? Why not let the forger determine how many operations he is willing to perform for a given price?

What is an objective difference between those two options?  They look like two ways to state the same thing to me.

Is the trouble here in the fact that its would be un reasonable for the rest of the network to check the forgers work if the forger happened to be running on a really powerful computer?

One of the problems we run into is the Halting Problem -- there's just no way to know before-hand if a program will find an answer or chug away with calculations until the heat death of the universe.


We already sorted that out by: pay per op.
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February 05, 2014, 11:53:58 AM
 #29634

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

Do you know why it's slow?  

Two very fundamental reasons

1. each operation on the exchange (e.g. putting in a buy or sell order) has a 10 minute delay (because it requires 1 Bitcoin block to be solved)
2. because all counterparty transactions are simply nested inside the bitcoin blockchain, they are not automatically validated like native bitcoin transactions.  This means that in order to validate a transaction the counterparty clients must rewind back from the counterparty genesis/PoB transactions and revalidate to the present point, which is way more inefficient than in bitcoin, where the Merkel tree is able to speed things up.
To be fair:

1) The second point is valid, but you will not notice the difference as long as you have whole blockchain downloaded. When I pointed out this first in XCP thread, I mean the main drawback is the time to download the blockchain in the beginning. You will notice the slow parsing time only when a XCP is transferred tens of thousands of times, and that will not happen in near future.

2) The first point is of course true, but should be acceptable to most average users. Normally, we trade only once several days. Even day traders only trade couple of times per day.
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February 05, 2014, 11:55:18 AM
 #29635

will trustless high frequency trading be possible when1000 transactions per seconds are possible

No. There is a 60 second gap between blocks. U can't call it "high frequency trading".

but it's ten times faster than counterparty & you mentioned that we can reduce the block forging time gap.
Included in a block does not mean it's really confirmed. You still need to wait enough blocks to be sure the probability of reorganization is low.
ChuckOne
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February 05, 2014, 11:59:32 AM
 #29636

Why should we set a price per operations? Why not let the forger determine how many operations he is willing to perform for a given price?

What is an objective difference between those two options?  They look like two ways to state the same thing to me.

Is the trouble here in the fact that its would be un reasonable for the rest of the network to check the forgers work if the forger happened to be running on a really powerful computer?

One of the problems we run into is the Halting Problem -- there's just no way to know before-hand if a program will find an answer or chug away with calculations until the heat death of the universe.


We already sorted that out by: pay per op.

Another issue of subleq, I can think of, is that it does not utilize hardware ressources efficiently.

Today's processors can calculate many different operations extremely efficiently and fast.

Our VM should utilize at least some of that potential.
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February 05, 2014, 12:10:08 PM
 #29637

have you got all the donations you need for the reddit/facebook tip bot yet?

To start -- I was an ass to you upthread and could've directed you to a page explaining transparent forging but instead gave you a shitty, terse remark. Lack of caffeine is no excuse. Hope you can accept my mea culpa.

Yes. There wasn't a set amount for the reddit bounty, but there was a hope for 5000 NXT... it easily surpassed that and is over 25000 NXT.

The doge tipbot dev said the doge code isn't easily translatable (due to differences in JSON and python handling IIRC) but is willing to answer questions.

Facebook bounty -- there was never a set amount requested; 10000 is definitely a nice start!


its ok i dont hold grudges! Smiley ok just wondering because theres no point in me donating to projects  that need 10's / 100's of thousands because i simply dont have enough.. if i donate to these smaller projects i dont look like so much of a scab! :L

I bought my first back on December 21 and yesterday was the first time I donated to a bounty (and I really only did it because someone donated some NXT to me for some quick work I did for them).

Having little NXT makes it frustrating when you see your small account balance versus all the worthy bounties and projects that need funding. :/ I just try to have fun, learn a little and watch the big dogs play in the yard as I watch from the porch. Cheesy
FrictionlessCoin
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February 05, 2014, 12:10:22 PM
 #29638

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

Do you know why it's slow?  

Two very fundamental reasons

1. each operation on the exchange (e.g. putting in a buy or sell order) has a 10 minute delay (because it requires 1 Bitcoin block to be solved)
2. because all counterparty transactions are simply nested inside the bitcoin blockchain, they are not automatically validated like native bitcoin transactions.  This means that in order to validate a transaction the counterparty clients must rewind back from the counterparty genesis/PoB transactions and revalidate to the present point, which is way more inefficient than in bitcoin, where the Merkel tree is able to speed things up.

Are there any plans by Counterparty to change the above setups?

You probably want to take a look at NEX http://www.nexcoin.net .

It leverages the bitcoin secure network without the weight of Bitcoin's 10 minute confirmations.

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February 05, 2014, 12:14:29 PM
 #29639

How's progress with the decentralised exchange backend and frontend GUI going?

I've just checked out counterparty, but to be honest, it's too damn slow, also there are just too many issues with piggybacking on the bitcoin block chain.  I think NXT has the right model.

Do you know why it's slow?  

Two very fundamental reasons

1. each operation on the exchange (e.g. putting in a buy or sell order) has a 10 minute delay (because it requires 1 Bitcoin block to be solved)
2. because all counterparty transactions are simply nested inside the bitcoin blockchain, they are not automatically validated like native bitcoin transactions.  This means that in order to validate a transaction the counterparty clients must rewind back from the counterparty genesis/PoB transactions and revalidate to the present point, which is way more inefficient than in bitcoin, where the Merkel tree is able to speed things up.
To be fair:

1) The second point is valid, but you will not notice the difference as long as you have whole blockchain downloaded. When I pointed out this first in XCP thread, I mean the main drawback is the time to download the blockchain in the beginning. You will notice the slow parsing time only when a XCP is transferred tens of thousands of times, and that will not happen in near future.

2) The first point is of course true, but should be acceptable to most average users. Normally, we trade only once several days. Even day traders only trade couple of times per day.

For non commodities like say eBay listings,  then (2) should be acceptable.  However, when you do commodities or shares,  then the Bitcoin 10 minute per block limitation is really too restrictive. 

In general, you should do all the high speed stuff off the Bitcoin block chain and then resync back to the blockchain when done. 

See: http://www.nexcoin.net  on how it should really be done.

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February 05, 2014, 12:15:06 PM
 #29640

I only have 800,000 NXT to dump and we r below 0,00005.

When I get back I will do this so i was polite warning you all.


oh and on vicrurex 90,000 NXT and we r below 0.00005 but that is to easy.

bye bye
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