NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Touque]

I am not an economist.

nodecoins value is probably less that .01 NXT, but more than .0001 NXT

I dont see how the lack of value for nodecoin could affect NXT. It is just an asset that adds no value if it is deemed to be worth 0. However, if it does gain traction as a inside NXT tipping currency, or a altruistic network supporting donation method, or crazy nodecoin collectors dreaming of the moon, then whatever value it has will actually increase the value of NXT.

The sum value of all the NXT assets will be reflected in the value of NXT.

nodecoin should be fun, not so serious. Everybody can easily get some, but nobody can get a lot (unless evilknievel has cracked nodecoin mining too). I dont think dumping can really happen. nodecoins are the most egalitarian crypto ever made

nodecoins give instant feedback to people for running a NXT node. This was raised as a problem a while back. I said I can fix it. Based on the incredible amount of feedback and interest, I think we can say that nodecoin does indeed do what it is designed to do, reward people for running a node and giving them instant feedback. At .01 NXT valuation, they are statistically earning around 15% of actual forging (which they will still be doing!), but it is 100 times more fun to see more and more and more nodecoins every block.

James

I don't know how it works. It will be good if it can really strengthen the network. But is it a reward for pure mining? Does a person already earn transaction fee as the reward for running a node? Now you try to double reward pure mining. Is all this consistent with BCNext's vision? BCNext tried to get rid of mining for mining (selfish mining). He wanted to encourage people to build business and strong nodes to be able to Handle DDos attach.

[rickyjames]

another descendant of Nxt
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512177.0

Is it good or bad for Nxt?

Definitely not good for NXT if it becomes popular.
What people don't realize in this community is that popularity & community is the alpha and omega of success.
People actually think that if NXT (which is 100% open source) is good enough "technically" then the rest doesn't matter.
There is no changes in hoarding, no changes in incentives, community is shrinking, price is falling etc. and nothing happens.
These big hoarders have a collective IQ in double digits.

We need to stop calling our daughtercoin "nodecoin" TODAY and call it something COOL.  Coolcoin.  Unicorncoin.  Rainbowcoin.  GoldNuggets.  Charitycoin.  Greencoin.  GermanShepardCoin.  CollieCoin.  IceCreamBar.  RainForestCoin.  SOMETHING.  COOL.  NOT.  TECHNO.

Think POPULARITY and COMMUNITY.  

[zorke]

Again, this is all irrelevant if it never reaches mainstream.

It will just crash and burn.

You guys really need to focus on reaching the average user, not just the computer super nerds.

It will be great technology only if the mainstream adopts it.

Otherwise, we have another fail tech that could have, would have, but didn't.

I think no one is actually saying we should go mainstream without these.
I have also not seen anyone mentioning that Nxt be confined to "nerds"

However: do you seriously expect mainstream functionality in four months, when most of the developers have only seen the full code starting january and now the full code in March?

All your points can be answered in the affirmative. Yes, we are still groping towards a goal. Yes, we don't have everything in place. Yes, we cannot expect the average user to use Nxt at this moment.

Even with all this, we seem to reach opposite conclusions. You that Nxt is doomed and lagging and will fail. I that Nxt is young, in development and full of potential, whatéver the competition does.

With the same information that you had access to, and not being a "geek" or "nerd" or a coder, I never saw Nxt as a "coin", but as a "system". Otherwise I would never even have stepped in. I find coins boring, and not something I would invest in.

I can seriously see your point, and cannot argue against your personal conclusions from your apparent perspective. That doesn't mean that your perspective it the only one. I sincerely dislike being painted like some idiot that múst be wrong because he doesn't share your conclusions, and some other people probably do, too.

It is very possible to have access to the exact same facts and reach completely different conclusions.

I agree, there are different points of view, but it seems to me that there are many, many ideas thrown around in this community and finishing of the stuff is going slowly. This is why CIYAM left the thread, man just doesn't have time for endless discussions and CFB lately made couple of times comments how there is no that much time for discussions that he needs to speed up implementation. Don't get me wrong, ideas are essential but we need balance between ideas and work/ finishing, releasing things.

[klee]

Getting nodecoins automatically is really cool. But someone explain to me when real nodecoins start what is going to give them value? Isn't it a false
assumption that miners will forge to get nodecoins?
Right now miners have so many options of which coin to mine and they choose based on how
easy the difficulty is and how much they can pump and dump it for.
That's why new coins get mined quickly. The miners know there will always
be someone dumb enough to think "ejaculate coin" will be the next big thing and everyone is going to use it to buy groceries so therefore I must
buy some on cryptsy.
What reason would miners have to "mine" nodecoin? Who's going to buy them?

hey Gramps, PoW gives value because the network needs securing. Nodecoin will not be worth much ever, but it will be easy to make, and serve as more of a direct payout than Forging blocks.

This will help the naysayers and minnows who accuse NXT of being a premined scam, and those who dont want to leave their NXT online.

you could set up a node farm, and HELP the network and earn a lot of coins.

But he is right... what for, if it is worthless? What will give it value?

AE bids in NXT by people who want to support the NXT network

Wishful thinking..
Don't get me wrong but big stakeholders will prefer to dump (maybe this is what is happening atm) than an endless donation to small stakes!
Of course this is a way to solve the distribution problem but I am not sure this is the for the best for 2 reasons:

1) Big stakeholders are key to NXT success because unlike other projects we have money to spend
2) Devaluing the currency (as Pin says) is a great way to discourage new investors

Bonus track) The assets listed in AE whom value will be in NXT will see their capital shrink

[freedomfighter]

I am your average Joe technically but have two Masters degrees. I dont have a problem with GUI coming in 3 months or 4. doesnt matter. will all come in time. BUT I STILL DON'T GET IT SORRY:

IT was said:

NXT is a decentralized exchange.- OK great
NXT is a decentralized bank. OK great
NXT is a decentralized democracy system. OK great
NXT is a decentralized messaging system. OK great


NXT is a coin. (remember: a coin- not a stock. and i need to see an exchange value in it to use it as coin. so i need an economy in which this will be used like BTC in overstock or alternatively for dividends, games, gambling, asset creation etc)

How is the coin being used within the framework of the network? what will drive its demand and thus value on the decentralized exchange?

why am I asking? (and sorry for re-asking for the 4th time:)

because I can now technically issue a stock in DAC on top on the NXT network without having to use NXT the coin for it

I can also issue a new vertical coin for my 150 stores on top of the nxt network to be used internally as a discount token/value, while perfectly taking advantage of the decentralized aspect and network but I dont need to use a single NXT accept from the initial asset issuance

so the question is: where does the real economic value of NXT as coin is coming from?  

[igmaca]

another descendant of Nxt
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512177.0

Is it good or bad for Nxt?

Definitely not good for NXT if it becomes popular.
What people don't realize in this community is that popularity & community is the alpha and omega of success.
People actually think that if NXT (which is 100% open source) is good enough "technically" then the rest doesn't matter.
There is no changes in hoarding, no changes in incentives, community is shrinking, price is falling etc. and nothing happens.
These big hoarders have a collective IQ in double digits.

We need to stop calling our daughtercoin "nodecoin" TODAY and call it something COOL.  Coolcoin.  Unicorncoin.  Rainbowcoin.  GoldNuggets.  Charitycoin.  Greencoin.  GermanShepardCoin.  CollieCoin.  IceCreamBar.  RainForestCoin.  SOMETHING.  COOL.  NOT.  TECHNO.

Think POPULARITY and COMMUNITY.  

fair coin,  fees coin

[rickyjames]

I am trying to wrap my head around some of the developments here:

what will drive NXTcoin's value? if the asset exchange, though built on top of the nxt bloackchain will not be using NXTcoin as an internal mandatory token/coin with which one can conduct their business, and if nodecoins are derived from forging or for maintaining the network, so what is left for NXTcoin as an asset of exchange?

I can for example create a "NXT10" asset/coin on top of the NXT blockchain, pay 1000NXT for creating the asset in the first place and than denominate it with 10 0's after the decimal point and I go on to create my own market non related and with no need for NXT coin per se, just using the NXT network.

will forging than drive NXT value? not really because you still need to use NXT coin for something of economic value

where is the value proposition here as a NXT holder? if NXT is not a mandatory oil to the system (in other words one has to buy NXT and continue to for any action (like Etherium is planning for ETH), it seems that we are completely went away from a 1st generation coin functionality while we should be both.

I am not at all convinced nodecoin is a good idea.  I recognize it is a cool technical accomplishment, which is a totally different thing.

NXT has a real problem.  We are all so smart here we forget that we are trying to be competitive in a dog-eat-dog cryptocurrency world that is catering to the masses who don't care about cool tech, they care about their own needs.  What need does nodecoin solve FOR THEM?  NOTHING.  IT WILL CONFUSE THEM.  Are they supposed to care about NXT?  Nodecoin?  their own coin they create and bloat up our blockchain with?

THIS IS BRAND DILUTION FOR NXT AND BRAND DILUTION CAN BE FATAL.

James, anybody, please state in one sentence set aside by itself as its own paragraph just what the purpose of nodecoin is.

Folks, does this purpose help sell NXT to the average cryptocoin user?

[klee]

On Nodecoin/NXTcoin:

1) Who will buy them? It seems to me that it will follow the mine & dump path, so:
2) It will devalue NXT

PS: Ricky do you have skype? If yes PM me your ID please...

We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity.  We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin.  For example.  If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC.  If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on.  We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features.   That will give them value.

Why not use NXTs?

[freedomfighter]

On Nodecoin/NXTcoin:

1) Who will buy them? It seems to me that it will follow the mine & dump path, so:
2) It will devalue NXT

PS: Ricky do you have skype? If yes PM me your ID please...

We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity.  We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin.  For example.  If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC.  If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on.  We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features.   That will give them value.

Why not use NXTs?

+1

this is exactly what I mean in my posts/questions: create inherent economic uses for the currency aspect, i.e. drive the value of the nxt currency and therfore the entire ecosystem by making it a mandatory coin driving the 2.0 decentralized network.  

[MadCow]

another descendant of Nxt
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=512177.0

Is it good or bad for Nxt?

Definitely not good for NXT if it becomes popular.
What people don't realize in this community is that popularity & community is the alpha and omega of success.
People actually think that if NXT (which is 100% open source) is good enough "technically" then the rest doesn't matter.
There is no changes in hoarding, no changes in incentives, community is shrinking, price is falling etc. and nothing happens.
These big hoarders have a collective IQ in double digits.

We need to stop calling our daughtercoin "nodecoin" TODAY and call it something COOL.  Coolcoin.  Unicorncoin.  Rainbowcoin.  GoldNuggets.  Charitycoin.  Greencoin.  GermanShepardCoin.  CollieCoin.  IceCreamBar.  RainForestCoin.  SOMETHING.  COOL.  NOT.  TECHNO.

Think POPULARITY and COMMUNITY.  

nudecoin
dough
moneybox
partycoin
dub-loons

[igmaca]

can someone explain that technically it depends 1440 bloc per day ie one bloc per minute?

why not one bloc per 10 seconds for example?

What it depends?

[klee]

We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity.  We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin.  For example.  If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC.  If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on.  We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features.   That will give them value.

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

I am not sure if there is any usurping going on. Using this logic, if we started trading BTC using NXT AE, then somehow this hurts NXT? I dont think that is what would happen. I think the value of NXT would be proportional to the sum of the values of all of the NXT AE assets plus the current value. So if nodecoins become worth something, then NXT becomes incrementally more valuable.

Also, you are not taking into account the fact that without NXT, there is no nodecoin. This also seems to be what BCNext wanted from what I can remember.

If people deposit $1 billion USD into NXT and we have that much USD assets floating around inside AE, would that suck all the value out of NXT?

If nodecoins became worth $1 USD each, would that suck all the value out of NXT?

James

BTC are not dirty cheap or easily mined...

[Damelon]

I agree, there are different points of view, but it seems to me that there are many, many ideas thrown around in this community and finishing of the stuff is going slowly. This is why CIYAM left the thread, man just doesn't have time for endless discussions and CFB lately made couple of times comments how there is no that much time for discussions that he needs to speed up implementation. Don't get me wrong, ideas are essential but we need balance between ideas and work/ finishing, releasing things.

I couldn't agree more.
But I think this has to do with the fact that we discuss *every single detail* here in this thread.
We don't need to, we don't have to.

Consensus on that level is harmful, not beneficial *at all*.

I have no idea where this idea that consensus is needed even for the layout of an application is needed for.
That kind of consensus is reached by the market. You take some opinions, or even use your own judgement, implement and then see what the market/user does.

Sometimes right is right. If I *know* I need to post something on my blog (because I actually have the experience) I don't go ask here in the thread if it's OK. Chances are almost 100% that some people would disagree. Chances are also good that some of those people have never written a post in their life, so they are not even qualified to comment with any degree of accuracy. If I then would start to doubt myself, I'd get nothing done.

This doesn't mean that experts need to take over, but it does mean that experts should do what they do best: make the calls about the topics where they are best to do so.

[rickyjames]

I agree with LemonAndFries and Uniqueorn in one thing at least: How many people is actively working on and developing NXT right now? Apart from CFB, Jean-Luc, James....? Where is the proof of "such a huge and nice community"?

It's worse than you think...CfB is leaving the building in a few weeks the first week of April, and James isn't working on the Java core of NXT, only Jean Luc is.  I have PMed them about using Freelancer.com to bring on some paid fresh new Java talent but I have heard no response.  Getting fresh new Java programming blood in here is critical.  

[klee]

We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity.  We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin.  For example.  If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC.  If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on.  We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features.   That will give them value.

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

I am not sure if there is any usurping going on. Using this logic, if we started trading BTC using NXT AE, then somehow this hurts NXT? I dont think that is what would happen. I think the value of NXT would be proportional to the sum of the values of all of the NXT AE assets plus the current value. So if nodecoins become worth something, then NXT becomes incrementally more valuable.

Also, you are not taking into account the fact that without NXT, there is no nodecoin. This also seems to be what BCNext wanted from what I can remember.

If people deposit $1 billion USD into NXT and we have that much USD assets floating around inside AE, would that suck all the value out of NXT?

If nodecoins became worth $1 USD each, would that suck all the value out of NXT?

James

Simple: just invest in the coins built ontop. This is a way of injecting fairness into the community. The community decides if they want to keep NXT or a nodecoin as their primary focus.
This nodecoin would obviously be possible for everyone to get in on eary.
This community doesn't award people for their work, there is no mining, forging wont give you shit, so this is a way for fairness to come into the picture.

There are far bette ways to invest in the community - see my 1M nxt donation for zerocoin implementation and the funding of ATs.

Not true.

[eightspaces]

We need to stop calling our daughtercoin "nodecoin" TODAY and call it something COOL.  Coolcoin.  Unicorncoin.  Rainbowcoin.  GoldNuggets.  Charitycoin.  Greencoin.  GermanShepardCoin.  CollieCoin.  IceCreamBar.  RainForestCoin.  SOMETHING.  COOL.  NOT.  TECHNO.

Think POPULARITY and COMMUNITY.  

RickyJamesCoin

[Damelon]

We need to stop calling our daughtercoin "nodecoin" TODAY and call it something COOL.  Coolcoin.  Unicorncoin.  Rainbowcoin.  GoldNuggets.  Charitycoin.  Greencoin.  GermanShepardCoin.  CollieCoin.  IceCreamBar.  RainForestCoin.  SOMETHING.  COOL.  NOT.  TECHNO.

Think POPULARITY and COMMUNITY.  

RickyJamesCoin

The PunisherCoin

[MadCow]

We need to stop calling our daughtercoin "nodecoin" TODAY and call it something COOL.  Coolcoin.  Unicorncoin.  Rainbowcoin.  GoldNuggets.  Charitycoin.  Greencoin.  GermanShepardCoin.  CollieCoin.  IceCreamBar.  RainForestCoin.  SOMETHING.  COOL.  NOT.  TECHNO.

Think POPULARITY and COMMUNITY.  

RickyJamesCoin

The PunisherCoin

HurtCoin

[bidji29]

I have some feedback on the wesley client about the user-friendliness :


-The dashboard is too much bloated to be a landing page. There is too much information at once, and a new user would be lost. Assets, transactions, blocks, messages, alias, etc..... too much for a first look.
A better landing page is the "transactions" one.

-It's not clear how to receive funds. There is only an "ID: 2980315497189667873" displayed. But transactions and block have ID too. I think it should be changed to "Account address :2980315497189667873"
And even with that, I'm sure people will not always know they need to use that to receive funds. You need a bigger clear message on the transaction page that their account address is 2980315497189667873

-I think the "Send Nxt" , "send message" and "generate token" button should be on the left side of the header , with "settings" and "log out" still on the right.
They are not enough visible right now. Maybe give them a more distinctive colors too. That's the more important button after all.

-When you click on your account ID, it doesn't seems to copy it on the clipboard.

-I still think a wallet.dat system would be a lot more easy to use.

[abctc]

can someone explain that technically it depends 1440 bloc per day ie one bloc per minute?

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAP_theorem