NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[ChuckOne]

We only get the result from the forger. That's a result of having a turing-complete language. You cannot prove what the script is going to calculate.

This statement is wrong.

Ah, really? What do we have instead?

Every node will run the script by itself.

This is what I told you.

So, now I got two problems:
1) What if the results don't match?
2) Why is the forger getting all the fees? We are not talking about a little block verification script. Turing-complete scripts could do anything from calculating the square root to performing operations worth 200.000 NXTs and more.

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[msin]

Cause we need more people using Nxt, not forging for profit.

I agree.

But, come on, NXT is two months old. Don't push it too hard.

I think the concept should convince people to come and to stay not the fees. If they stay, good. If they don't because of the fees, they will leave at the slightest problem. Let's accumulate those people first and then let people in that are just here for 'yet-another-altcoin' profit.

Don't you thing we have still some time?

Yes, but it's another item off the plate, and we can move on to more important things.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Idea: don't use Nxt for chat because in April there will be a fork with infinite coins. CXT, MXT, whatsnxt, facenxt, nxtwitter...

...Noogle...

[ChuckOne]

These last few pages has brought back memories of when the Nxt community was at battle with the zombies... watch this Turing or whatever you want to call it language/script be Nxt History before you know it!    

Don't think so. Digital Contracts are very important feature. Especially when comparing NXT and Ethereum.

Now, it's just fine-tuning some parameters.

[Come-from-Beyond]

So, now I got two problems:
1) What if the results don't match?
2) Why is the forger getting all the fees? We are not talking about a little block verification script. Turing-complete scripts could do anything from calculating the square root to performing operations worth 200.000 NXTs and more.

1. We must use a language that doesn't lead to nondeterministic results.
2. Let's discuss other possibilities.

[ImmortAlex]

Fee: 1.0
Until we really have high price for 1 NXT.
Until we really have big number of transactions per block.
Until we really start to scream: "WTF, I buy one gram of blow cheap cheneese smartphone and need to pay 5% of it's price as fee!"

Exactly, my thoughts. Would also like a % of transaction's amount to be spent as fee with min 1NXT.

Reducing Nxt fee lowers incentive to forge with large Nxt account, while at the same time encouraging use of Nxt features. I like it.

Why not waiting for a month or two? Why the hurry?

Cause we need more people using Nxt, not forging for profit.

Do you think that 1 NXT fee is something that really stops people now?! C'mon, it's just few cents!

For someone who can only afford 1000 Nxt, yes.

Afford for what?
We have no services now where someone who "can only afford 1000 Nxt" can spend their coins anyway.
I mean, I not against 0.01 fee. I just want to see some real-life reason for it. Do not forget that it is kinda significant core change.

[msin]

Fee: 1.0
Until we really have high price for 1 NXT.
Until we really have big number of transactions per block.
Until we really start to scream: "WTF, I buy one gram of blow cheap cheneese smartphone and need to pay 5% of it's price as fee!"

Exactly, my thoughts. Would also like a % of transaction's amount to be spent as fee with min 1NXT.

Reducing Nxt fee lowers incentive to forge with large Nxt account, while at the same time encouraging use of Nxt features. I like it.

Why not waiting for a month or two? Why the hurry?

Cause we need more people using Nxt, not forging for profit.

Do you think that 1 NXT fee is something that really stops people now?! C'mon, it's just few cents!

For someone who can only afford 1000 Nxt, yes.

Afford for what?
We have no services now where someone who "can only afford 1000 Nxt" can spend their coins anyway.
I mean, I not against 0.01 fee. I just want to see some real-life reason for it. Do not forget that it is kinda significant core change.

Yeah, I agree with you, but why not implement now, why wait for people to complain about it.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

Jean-Luc said "immediatelly", why do we need big bold red letters?

[VanBreuk]

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

The fact Jean-Luc urges everyone to update for a critical issue is enough to do it. Reasons might not be disclosed to avoid malicious exploits in a 0.5.11 vulnerability.

[opticalcarrier]

Might I suggest that you do not hold your breath as you wait for the apology?

I obviously can’t stay in a community where four words and a stupid smiley makes somebody wish you death and don’t even think about apologizing (don’t bother doing it now in case your consciousness suddenly wakes up, it’s too late).

And I am tired of being one guy on the other side of everybody else. A cohesive community is much more important than stupid arguments.
...

Huh? Somebody gave you a death threat? That's crazy.
...

he is referring to my previous PUBLIC comment to him in this thread that if he cant figure out how play nice here with everyone (what everyone else was asking of him) that he should go play in traffic as far as I was concerned.  Notice he never used the phrase "death threat", but that is exactly what he wanted you all to think and you fell for more of his drama.

Not sure what forum rules are regarding posting PM (it's a dick move at the least, unless illegal content) but he failed to include the rest of my PM since if he did it would not support his drama.  Since I was the sender of the PM then I can justify posting it here:

But I am optimistic that instead of being a complete jackass to everyone who you think is going off in the wrong direction, that you can instead provide better guidance instead of reverting to a complete jackass. I do see 1 recent instance of that, perhaps you can keep it up?

i guess he couldnt

[ImmortAlex]

Fee: 1.0
Until we really have high price for 1 NXT.
Until we really have big number of transactions per block.
Until we really start to scream: "WTF, I buy one gram of blow cheap cheneese smartphone and need to pay 5% of it's price as fee!"

Exactly, my thoughts. Would also like a % of transaction's amount to be spent as fee with min 1NXT.

Reducing Nxt fee lowers incentive to forge with large Nxt account, while at the same time encouraging use of Nxt features. I like it.

Why not waiting for a month or two? Why the hurry?

Cause we need more people using Nxt, not forging for profit.

Do you think that 1 NXT fee is something that really stops people now?! C'mon, it's just few cents!

For someone who can only afford 1000 Nxt, yes.

Afford for what?
We have no services now where someone who "can only afford 1000 Nxt" can spend their coins anyway.
I mean, I not against 0.01 fee. I just want to see some real-life reason for it. Do not forget that it is kinda significant core change.

Yeah, I agree with you, but why not implement now, why wait for people to complain about it.

Life is pain. People are always comlain anyway...
Btw, I'm almost indifferent to fee amount. I'm just provide another opinion to this thread. Just to be opposite, you know Just to see something different than "Yeah! 0.01 fee! Now!"

[EvilDave]

fee: 0.1

Only few will continue to forge for 0.01 at today's price, plus it's cheap to spam the blockchain.
Lower the fee again when price rises above 10$.

+1

Voting for 0.1 NXT fee. See achimsmile for reasons....

Hmmm...i like the drama of gold on black, but I can see your point. Maybe slightly too Evil....
I'll have a fiddle with colours if i get some time later on.
Any feedback on text or layout ?

Text and layout are fine. Good readability, especially for a sticker with those dimensions.

Personally I would make a sticker with the color scheme of the nxtcrypto site.
Keep everything in the same style, so that it's easily recognizable, for now at least.

Wouldn't it also be wise to choose one logo as THE logo? The "think green" one is especially pleasing and clever:

- It promotes eco-friendliness
- It shows it's a coin currency  
- nxtcrypto.org is mentioned
- It has those NXT symbols

And it's very distinct.

I'l have a fiddle around tonight with PornShopPro and come up with some alternate designs.
I'd like to be able to get some stickers to the guys on the Berlin conference, so we need to get a move on
Feedback, guys, feedback...need to know what people think of the stickers before I commit to printing up a few 100.

[ChuckOne]

So, now I got two problems:
1) What if the results don't match?
2) Why is the forger getting all the fees? We are not talking about a little block verification script. Turing-complete scripts could do anything from calculating the square root to performing operations worth 200.000 NXTs and more.

1. We must use a language that doesn't lead to nondeterministic results.
2. Let's discuss other possibilities.

1) As I see it, a friend of mine would say: that plays no barrel organ. If a malicious forger uses a different client, what prevents him from executing some op or some pre-defined scripts differently that they are supposed to?

2) Hmm, even split between all forgers of that day (1440 blocks). Some scripts could take a day or more on conventional hardware to be executed.

I might believe, we should have the number of forgers being involved limited by: number of ops one could possibly be paying:
There are 1 billion NXTs. So, one could pay 1 billion ops. If an op take 0.001 second (just an example), a forger could calculate 86,400,000 ops per day. I think that's far from payable by a single individuum.

[ChuckOne]

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

Jean-Luc said "immediatelly", why do we need big bold red letters?

Because, people. Not machines.

[Damelon]

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

The fact Jean-Luc urges everyone to update for a critical issue is enough to do it. Reasons might not be disclosed to avoid malicious exploits in a 0.5.11 vulnerability.

Sorry, but it is not.

If not updating has such large consequences, it needs to be coordinated at least with nxtcrypto so QBTC can put it in the front page.

People who don´t read this thread have no idea they need to update and basically no way of knowing it.

Also: 0.1. No need to go lower at this point. 

[Come-from-Beyond]

1) As I see it, a friend of mine would say: that plays no barrel organ. If a malicious forger uses a different client, what prevents him from executing some op or some pre-defined scripts differently that they are supposed to?

This gives no advantage at all. Actually this leads to blockchain corruption. The malicious forger will create his own fork which he will be forging alone.

[EvilDave]

Fixed a critical bug. Everybody should upgrade immediately.

So my paranoia wake up.

What is the bug?! Do I need to decompile pair of sources and do diff and than do analyse just before upgrade?
Do you try to hide something from evil hackers? I think they are first who do analysis on decompiled sources...

Don't waste ur time, it will be fully disclosed anyway.

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

let me:

Upgrade to 5.12 NOW, please.

There, much less nonchalant....

[opticalcarrier]

Fixed a critical bug. Everybody should upgrade immediately.

So my paranoia wake up.

What is the bug?! Do I need to decompile pair of sources and do diff and than do analyse just before upgrade?
Do you try to hide something from evil hackers? I think they are first who do analysis on decompiled sources...

Don't waste ur time, it will be fully disclosed anyway.

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

Well I made it a global sticky at NXTCrypto Forums

and have asked all translators to notify as well

[msin]

Life is pain. People are always comlain anyway...
Btw, I'm almost indifferent to fee amount. I'm just provide another opinion to this thread. Just to be opposite, you know Just to see something different than "Yeah! 0.01 fee! Now!"

Yeah, I'm indifferent as well, but I promise to send you .1Nxt when the time comes.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Shouldnt this announcement be in big bold red letters all over the place? How do you expect everyone to upgrade due to a critical bug if you don't make it seem serious and disclose the matter nonchalantly.

Jean-Luc said "immediatelly", why do we need big bold red letters?

Because, people. Not machines.

Well, u have 2 options:

1. Do as Jean-Luc says
2. Don't do it, lose money and next time u'll do as Jean-Luc says