NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime]

Information sent to CoinMKT for them to start evaluating Nxt (clients/api info etc..).

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[chanc3r]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

[allwelder]

I am constructing a Nxt navigation website,and the domain name has been registeredwww.nxtcrypto.com.
So plz list your website and category or function here,I will collect ,classify these websites ,and list all of them for Nxters easy to reach every website of Nxt.

salsacz's document sounds like a good way to start.

Yes,its very useful,thank for your remind.

[rajc]

I still say trying to tie the fee to some FIAT is the wrong direction.  Ill say it again - a transactions's fee should be tied to its byte size on the blockchain.  So lets say a NXT transfer is 128bytes, and its fee is .1NXT, so then an AM or alias of size 256bytes should cost .2NXT.
But no one likes my idea. 

This proposal will require a bit more code; but for the moment I think a straight .1 NXT for all works, as it will encourage more use for now.

+1000

you have to realize it is arbitrary message NOT chat

[allwelder]

Hi NXTers!

NXT's greatest competitor seem to be Ethereum. It's main feature that NXT still lacks is scripting, which is a wonderful idea (along with it's risks of course) - kudos to Vitalik and his team for bringing this up!

Because I want NXT to be competitive and because this is a great feature on it's own, I decided to personally fund a team led by CIYAM and CfB (as long as he is with us), to implement this technology in NXT too!

The code will be open sourced when the feature is finished and extensively tested.
We will use a private github repo if others want to easily review the source during development.

Let the good times roll!

Great

[allwelder]

The ZSE has added Nxt business.
https://www.zharifsofiaexchanger.com/site/home.php

[dzarmush]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-has-been-hacked-and-4474-26-btc-stolen-operator-says-centralized-escrow-system-cant-ever-work/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/02/13/silk-road-2-0-hacked-using-bitcoin-bug-all-its-funds-stolen/?utm_campaign=forbestwittersf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Yikes, bad for BTC.

In the bright side of things, almost simultaneously we find out that porn giants embrace BTC.

I believe in the end everything will be more than okay.

Cool. I just paid for porn. Didn't think such thing might happen to me ) If they start accept bitcoin on all their sites it will be bigger than anything before.

[Anon136]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

perhaps our slogan should be "Caveat emptor"? No but seriously who runs the escrow for bitstamp deposits?

[chanc3r]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

perhaps our slogan should be "Caveat emptor"? No but seriously who runs the escrow for bitstamp deposits?

True... but people need to be able to trust in the network because the individuals are by nature, remote and anonymous...
Btw if you are trading DOGE it should be "Caveat Canem"

[Sebastien256]

** Big News **

Nxt (along with Peercoin) will be one of two official currencies at Trekcon Springfield:

http://www.trekconspringfield.com/

We will have access to quiet a bit of media as well as tie-ins with Star Trek actors at the event. I will be working with local companies prior to the event to help support Nxt.  More details to come, still working on the logistics.  Here's a video we put out when we added Peercoin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89YI6_6Aw2E


Yes, that's me in the video. The guys are already lining up interviews with local tv and radio stations, we'll also be able to take part in that promotion.

Made me laugh, as I have been talking with James about a "Federation of Gateways" today.

OK, this is my cue to update status of community gateways. Keep in mind I am talking about the first step along the path toward fully automated DAC solution. No need to wait for that if we can get a more traditional solution in the meantime.

I have a job offer out to a fulltime dev who will help code my ideas, both crazy and not so crazy. The first task is to create reference code for automated gateways and clients along the lines of my post about this yesterday.

In parallel, I am working with traditional gateway providers to create a federation of gateways that users can choose between. We will create requirements to be part of the gateway and the community will need to help do the due diligence on each of the gateways as I have little expertise in data center security, etc.

NXT community gateway federation requirements:

A) we need source code of the automated gateway functionality, this way the smart guys can make sure that all the error cases are properly handled and if a database is used, that proper database techniques are used, etc. It is expected that all the federation members will work together to create best practices for deposit/withdrawal handling. No more bter funny business!

B) There needs to be an automatically updated balance of Assets issued and a corresponding account that can be checked using blockchain.info, trust but verify. This ensures that there is 100% backing of all the Assets issued into AE and people can trade it without worrying about fractional reserve.

C) There needs to be a publicly posted information about any and all fees charged. There will also be the option of the gateway provider to put up a bond against deposit flight risk. This allows even gateways run by an unknown newbie to have a chance, especially if they put up a bond big enough to cover all their deposits. Any reductions in bond will require enough time for adjustments to be made by holders of gateway's assets. [I need a place to host this information and also someone to keep it updated, maybe nxtcrpto.org?]

D) There needs to be an agreement to exchange gateway assets of the same denomination with the community asset at 1:1, this is something that ripple never achieved and it fragments the trading for all gateways to this day. By pooling all assets for the same thing, it reduces confusion for the user and also creates more liquidity and tighter spreads. Imagine if the highest bid and lowest ask for DOGE was always available within AE!

D) Anything else that is missing?

I cannot stress how important it is that we unite all the Assets for the same crypto, otherwise it will be a giant confusing mess. In ripple right now, anybody can issue anything, but there are no standards or requirements to be able to do this. Buyer beware. I am hopeful that each federation gateway will either start with enough credibility or be able to find a sponsor/partner that will be able to put up a big enough bond to allow for true interchangeability among all Assets for the same thing.

Getting the tech to achieve this is actually not new, having the community that can achieve freely interchangeable Assets among a federation of gateways, that is what is new here.

James

I like that, many gateway is more decentralized and more secore if done correctly.  

[gs02xzz]

I guess that we can solve the "latin issue" only by voting.

vox populi - "voice of the people". Short non-prearranged interview with an ordinary person (e.g. on the street); sometimes shortened to "vox pop".

How about Freedom, or Peace and Freedom? Isn't it what the NXT eventually want to achieve in a society?

[Asian Prepper]

So if we ever make coins or something we will need a slogan. USD has in god we trust. Bitcoin has "vires in numeris" which means strength in numbers. I thought for nxt we might use "In emergentia speramus" which translates to "in emergence we trust"

I wanted to write something else underneath the nxt logo that i put on my silver bars so "In emergentia speramus" is what i came up with. All constructive comments welcome.

"The future is NXT."

I think it's quite catchy. 

servus servorum Dei - servant of the servants of God

sic itur ad astra   - thus you shall go to the stars

This one is really nice:

terra nullius    "land of none" - That is, no man's land. A neutral or uninhabited area, or a land not under the sovereignty of any recognized political entity.

We gather to create a cryptocurrency... but not just any cryptocurrency.... but a "2nd generation" cryptocurrency in order to crush the current, antiquated fiat banking system (that most people don't understand) but then we turn around and inscribe it with words from a dead, antiquated and ancient language that no one uses and nobody understands... lol

How ironic...

I propose we use more modern terms and stick to our "2nd generation" heritage and use terms that everyone can understand such as:

Rated R Version = "Down With The Fed BITCHES!"
PG-13 Version = "The People's Money"

Tai Zen

[pandaisftw]

So if we ever make coins or something we will need a slogan. USD has in god we trust. Bitcoin has "vires in numeris" which means strength in numbers. I thought for nxt we might use "In emergentia speramus" which translates to "in emergence we trust"

I wanted to write something else underneath the nxt logo that i put on my silver bars so "In emergentia speramus" is what i came up with. All constructive comments welcome.

"The future is NXT."

I think it's quite catchy. 

servus servorum Dei - servant of the servants of God

sic itur ad astra   - thus you shall go to the stars

This one is really nice:

terra nullius    "land of none" - That is, no man's land. A neutral or uninhabited area, or a land not under the sovereignty of any recognized political entity.

We gather to create a cryptocurrency... but not just any cryptocurrency.... but a "2nd generation" cryptocurrency in order to crush the current, antiquated fiat banking system (that most people don't understand) but then we turn around and inscribe it with words from a dead, antiquated and ancient language that no one uses and nobody understands... lol

How ironic...

I propose we use more modern terms and stick to our "2nd generation" heritage and use terms that everyone can understand such as:

Rated R Version = "Down With The Fed BITCHES!"
PG-13 Version = "The People's Money"

Tai Zen

How about something the younger generation will understand?

Hoc facite in ratchets (Do it for the ratchets)

[lucky88888]

i like this coin... but its very complicated to set it..

Hi, this client will be very easy to use, great for starters.

Download the Windows one click installer with blockchain:
http://offspring.dgex.com/offspring-w32-w64-blockchain.x86.exe

For updates go here.
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3965.0.html

[ErnieRox]

had some nxt for like 2 days, logged back in and now their gone into crypto mystery land? was there a bug, i doubt i got hacked i had a super duper 20 digit password  

On which block are you? Chances are that you use an old client / don't have up to date blockchain...

5 thousand NXT to the person who would talk to BTER owner in Chinese and solve my problem, I need my 100k NXT.

Hi lophie, I speak Mandarin (lived in east China for a few years). Send me the details via PM and I'll try to sort this out for you. Their "support" is indeed almost inexistent.

ps: you may ask allwelder for support as well

not sure, i will check again, i had sort of given up after that, and the mac client kept crashing on my mac as well, i will redownload and try again, glad it wasnt 100k like some people tho, sheesh 

[jl777]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

Keep in mind this is the first step on the path toward fully automated DAC gateways. Also, to remove the confusion that is inherent in having many different Assets that are all representing the same thing I think it is crucial that we consolidate all assets of the same denomination to a single community asset. This will allow all users to go to a single asset name within AE for BTC and ALL the bids and asks for BTC within AE will be for BTC backed by the federation of gateways. All the federation members take blood oaths, trade first born children, etc. so they work out a way to trust each other. This shifts the risk of choosing the right gateway from the hapless end user who has no clue which gateway is better to each gateway itself. A much better chance of making correct decisions. In the event one of the gateways is lacking somehow, the other gateways could require posting of a bond to cover the risk.

HOWEVER, I think I might have a way to allow all the gateways to trust each other without any bodily parts being involved. I do need somebody who is familiar with multisig to confirm this, or more likely correct where I am being plain silly.

I do not see a problem with deposits of crypto, the end user sends in the crypto to a deposit address and the gateway sweeps it into an account. The problem is with the withdrawal, eg. since I am proposing all assets that represent BTC be fungible with each other, each gateway needs to have access to potentially all the actual BTC.

So, we have a possible solution where all the gateways sweep into a common account. Wait! If all gateways are able to withdraw from it, then if ANY gateway gets hacked or hypnotized by Evil Bob, all the deposits are gone. Not good at all.

This is where I think multisig comes in. What if the sweep account is a multisig acct. All the gateways can easily sweep into the multisig acct, since it is just a matter of sending coin to the right address. Now on withdraw, if we required the signatures from all gateways to do a withdrawal (or super majority?), then no gateway would be able to take off with the deposits, unless all gateways (or super majority) turn evil at the same time.

No I dont know how multisig works well enough to know if this will work, but IF there is a way to do a safe remote multisig authorization and all the gateways are using the same business logic to approve withdrawals, eg. proper AM was sent with appropriate asset, then I think this could work.

Not totally trustless, but as long as all (or super majority) of gateways dont spontaneously turn evil, I think the community would be able to rely on the federation of gateways.

I hope somebody that knows about multisig and another somebody that knows about secure remote signing will be able to validate this, or fix it so it works

James

P.S. I just figured out that we can use a set of AM's for secure remote signing. Granted it is a lot of AM to send if we had to do it for each withdrawal, so maybe we only invoke this level when the amount is larger than the bond put up by the gateway. I think this is getting close to a real solution. Smart guys, please help!!

[jl777]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

perhaps our slogan should be "Caveat emptor"? No but seriously who runs the escrow for bitstamp deposits?

would multisig by all members of gateway federation do the trick?

[Anon136]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

I think it is crucial that we consolidate all assets of the same denomination to a single community asset. This will allow all users to go to a single asset name within AE for BTC and ALL the bids and asks for BTC within AE will be for BTC backed by the federation of gateways. All the federation members take blood oaths, trade first born children, etc. so they work out a way to trust each other. This shifts the risk of choosing the right gateway from the hapless end user who has no clue which gateway is better to each gateway itself. A much better chance of making correct decisions. In the event one of the gateways is lacking somehow, the other gateways could require posting of a bond to cover the risk.

A federation could be fine but homogonizing all gatewayes is a VERY bad idea imo. It allows the externalization of costs from the maleficent actor to the good actors. Insurance allows the homogonization of certain actors into federations by pricing the risk so competative federations could be good, though one homogeneous asset would be terrible.

[jl777]

you send btc*1 to bob. bob sends BobsBtcToken*1 to you. you go onto the orderbook for BobsBtcTokens and fill a buy order. Nxt appears in your account. Now you find a ltc gateway. Say betty seems the most trustworthy. Fill a sell order for BettysLtcTokens. Receive BettysLtcTokens*X. Send BettysLtcTokens*X to Betty's nxt address with a message containing your ltc address. Wait for ltc to arrive.

It seems overly complicated now but it'll feel natural once it gets rolling and everyone gets used to it. All steps serve their purpose, these extra steps are the cost of decentralization.

If I read this right - 'No escrow' or atomic completion?
so buyer beware....

I think it is crucial that we consolidate all assets of the same denomination to a single community asset. This will allow all users to go to a single asset name within AE for BTC and ALL the bids and asks for BTC within AE will be for BTC backed by the federation of gateways. All the federation members take blood oaths, trade first born children, etc. so they work out a way to trust each other. This shifts the risk of choosing the right gateway from the hapless end user who has no clue which gateway is better to each gateway itself. A much better chance of making correct decisions. In the event one of the gateways is lacking somehow, the other gateways could require posting of a bond to cover the risk.

A federation could be fine but homogonizing all gatewayes is a VERY bad idea imo. It allows the externalization of costs from the maleficent actor to the good actors. Insurance allows the homogonization of certain actors into federations by pricing the risk so competative federations could be good, though one homogeneous asset would be terrible.

If all the gateways are issuing a BTC asset, why is it a bad idea that all gateway BTC assets are all equal to each other, eg BTC?

Also, if we had a multisig requirement for all withdrawals, would that minimize or eliminate the harm bad actors can do?

It there is something wrong, I would like to understand it and hopefully fix it. This is why I am asking

[mczarnek]

Just to have it posted here as well, even if it is somewhat offtopic right now recognizing all these latin quotes: https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=530&p=3729#p3729

Don't know what the plans are on the side of CfB, JL and BCNext.

-------------------------------------

I prefer the (1 NXT fee = 1) voting system.

I'd like to explain why:

Many of you suggest a playable system as insofar as splitting and merging of accounts will occur as the shareholders see fit in order to vote appropriately.
On the one hand side, splitting and merging of accounts is a good thing as the more NXTs are distributed.
But on the other hand side: it's just teasing shareholders. They have more effort to split and to merge their accounts.

Well, if you still want a playable system because you assume some fair-thinking of the shareholders, that's okay.

BUT, if we assume fairness of the shareholders, we could easily conclude that they would vote fairly within the (1 NXT balance = 1 vote) or (1 NXT fee = 1 vote) system as well.

Fair voting would mean: a shareholder would only put that much NXT on one option that it is worth to him.

In case of (1 NXT balance = 1 vote): he creates a new account, puts the NXTs he wants to throw into the vote in that account and votes.

in case of (1 NXT fee = 1 vote): he simply pays the amount of fees that an option is worth to him.

This is why I prefer the (1 NXT fee = 1 vote) system. Just in case the shareholders want to vote fairly, they can do it effortlessly in this system. If they do not want, they can do in every system.

I tend to agree with this one.

Three major points:
1) The whole principle behind Nxt is the more you own, the more we trust you to protect it.. and that should extend to your voting power.
2) We need to run this like a business, because essentially that's what Nxt is with all it's extra features and Nxt should essentially be like company stock
3) If we allow just owning an account to dictate how many votes you get.. you know that competitors will try to steer us in the wrong direction.. look at dogecoin trying to vote to keep us off of cryptmarketcap.com, they got 40% of the vote.. you know that was malicious.. now you are telling them they can get multiple votes to use to try to convince us to make what they believe to be bad decisions?  No thank you.

Full reply here: https://forums.nxtcrypto.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=530&p=3677#p3677