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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755935 times)
jl777
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February 17, 2014, 01:37:11 AM
 #34501

but isnt part of bcexts plan to lower fees and stop greedy hoard and forge? makin it not worth while?


His idea. We don't have to follow it.
I am following BCNext's plan! He is clearly much smarter than me, who am I to second guess his recommendations.
In any case it makes a lot of sense to me that NXT itself should be as close to free to use as possible. Think how much it costs to use the Internet, or normal cash. If using the internet had a per minute fee (like Compuserve did), it would never have become what it is. Most people dont seem to under stand this. Elasticity of price demand, eg. lower cost -> more volumes.

I suggest that everybody just IGNORE any amount that comes in from forging. If it comes in, great, if not, dont worry. NXT is about building an economy. What sort of economy would it be if everybody just sat around waiting and staring at their money waiting for it to magically and spontaneously spit out more money?? The fact that NXT actually does this every once in a while is fantastic, but it is NOT the reason to own NXT. [answer to my rhetorical question is "massive economic depression"]

The reason to own NXT is to be able to build a livelihood around it. Create a product like Anon's silver bars, create a service like many people have already done. You have to do something to get something. Its not really that strange that it works this way is it?

Unless you have 100 BTC and can buy 1 million NXT, you gotta work. Even if you have 1 million NXT, it would be much better if you invested in the best ideas and allow others to make a living.

I am in the process of coming up with ways normal people can make a living by building stuff on top of NXT, but the more people that contribute such ideas the better. I cant be the only one who has ideas on how to make money with NXT.

Let's play a game. post a way you can think of that somebody can make money with NXT, using the tech that is currently being developed. The best idea as measured by (estimated revenues divided by estimated costs to implement) will win 500 NXT bounty. If there is no consensus as to what idea has the best revenue/cost ratio, i will flip a coin and pick the one I like the best.

Deadline is before I sign off tonight, probably 6 to 8 hrs

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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CoinTropolis_NiftyNikel
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February 17, 2014, 01:38:31 AM
 #34502

Thank you everyone who has donated so far for the charity drive, we are now at 34,686!!

If you haven't donated already, please head over to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=468258.0 to help out!

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February 17, 2014, 01:48:23 AM
 #34503

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Mises_77
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February 17, 2014, 01:53:59 AM
 #34504

but isnt part of bcexts plan to lower fees and stop greedy hoard and forge? makin it not worth while?


His idea. We don't have to follow it.
I am following BCNext's plan! He is clearly much smarter than me, who am I to second guess his recommendations.
In any case it makes a lot of sense to me that NXT itself should be as close to free to use as possible. Think how much it costs to use the Internet, or normal cash. If using the internet had a per minute fee (like Compuserve did), it would never have become what it is. Most people dont seem to under stand this. Elasticity of price demand, eg. lower cost -> more volumes.

I suggest that everybody just IGNORE any amount that comes in from forging. If it comes in, great, if not, dont worry. NXT is about building an economy. What sort of economy would it be if everybody just sat around waiting and staring at their money waiting for it to magically and spontaneously spit out more money?? The fact that NXT actually does this every once in a while is fantastic, but it is NOT the reason to own NXT. [answer to my rhetorical question is "massive economic depression"]

The reason to own NXT is to be able to build a livelihood around it. Create a product like Anon's silver bars, create a service like many people have already done. You have to do something to get something. Its not really that strange that it works this way is it?

Unless you have 100 BTC and can buy 1 million NXT, you gotta work. Even if you have 1 million NXT, it would be much better if you invested in the best ideas and allow others to make a living.

I am in the process of coming up with ways normal people can make a living by building stuff on top of NXT, but the more people that contribute such ideas the better. I cant be the only one who has ideas on how to make money with NXT.

Let's play a game. post a way you can think of that somebody can make money with NXT, using the tech that is currently being developed. The best idea as measured by (estimated revenues divided by estimated costs to implement) will win 500 NXT bounty. If there is no consensus as to what idea has the best revenue/cost ratio, i will flip a coin and pick the one I like the best.

Deadline is before I sign off tonight, probably 6 to 8 hrs

James

If I had the knowhow I would be developing the first coin on top of NXT called "Nodecoin". A type of payment system for maintaining an NXT node. Issued at regular intervals. Probably would not be worth much, and would be inflationary, but it would benefit the network greatly by encouraging every NXTer to have NXT in their wallet and keep forging.
btc2nxt
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February 17, 2014, 01:58:04 AM
 #34505

Developer help needed

Anyone fluent in Delphi/Pascal and either C++, Java or C# would be willing to port Curve25519 to Pascal?

Here is a java implementation: https://code.google.com/p/curve25519-java/
And here is a C# implementation: https://github.com/hanswolff/curve25519/blob/master/Curve25519/Curve25519.cs
Don't have the C++ implementation at hands, but was discussed here in the thread.

I would greatly appreciate if somebody could help me out with this!

i would like to try it.
jl777
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February 17, 2014, 01:59:16 AM
 #34506

Well, if the dragons sitting on their hoards of NXT don't start distributing it and using their holdings to advance NXT (and their own!) interests, then reducing forging rewards makes some sense.

Dragons, a call: spread your wealth to improve NXT.  Bounties, promotions, giveaways, sell it, whatever... create value.
By and large all the full BTC founders have done an excellent job, I personally am sure of 5 of them. I am assuming BCNext is one of the non-sellers, but nobody can possibly hold that against him. Not sure why there is this impression that they havent. Maybe the mistake they made was to sell of such big chunks at such low prices. I estimate the amount of NXT held by early adopter large investors is about the same amount as what the original full 8 BTC founders have left. Of the early adopters, msin, lophie and buybitcoinscanada have been great, but I am not really aware of many others that are being very active, at least not publicly.

I hope they will eventually realize that investing their low cost NXT into the new businesses that will be spawning all over the place will be a good place for them to invest. Since they are clearly astute investors, this NXT VC role is something that they can fill. Look at msin helping purchase nxtchg.com and that will evolve into one of the cornerstone businesses in the NXT economy. Community gateway and all the other services that naturally belong in the exchange/gateway.

For others that want to make their own gateway there is an open source gateway I heard about, but dont know if it is any good. If someone would evaluate https://github.com/buttercoin/buttercoin and post their impressions, that would be much appreciated. I think if people posted their business idea here, or just used the ones that are freely given out, then the big NXT holders would be able to invest. If the big whale guys want to help, but stay anonymous, I would gladly arrange for whatever anonymity/investment plans they want. Gotta do what is needed to get the investment capital flowing, we have a whole economy to build.

So as a community, we need to offer the big early adopter investor whales something that will have a decent chance of gaining in value faster than NXT itself. Otherwise, what rational investor would put the NXT in?

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
Voluntold
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February 17, 2014, 02:06:09 AM
 #34507

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.

Nxt:  NXT-5BHG-9VRE-QGW6-DRZVQ
jl777
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February 17, 2014, 02:10:05 AM
 #34508

but isnt part of bcexts plan to lower fees and stop greedy hoard and forge? makin it not worth while?


His idea. We don't have to follow it.
I am following BCNext's plan! He is clearly much smarter than me, who am I to second guess his recommendations.
In any case it makes a lot of sense to me that NXT itself should be as close to free to use as possible. Think how much it costs to use the Internet, or normal cash. If using the internet had a per minute fee (like Compuserve did), it would never have become what it is. Most people dont seem to under stand this. Elasticity of price demand, eg. lower cost -> more volumes.

I suggest that everybody just IGNORE any amount that comes in from forging. If it comes in, great, if not, dont worry. NXT is about building an economy. What sort of economy would it be if everybody just sat around waiting and staring at their money waiting for it to magically and spontaneously spit out more money?? The fact that NXT actually does this every once in a while is fantastic, but it is NOT the reason to own NXT. [answer to my rhetorical question is "massive economic depression"]

The reason to own NXT is to be able to build a livelihood around it. Create a product like Anon's silver bars, create a service like many people have already done. You have to do something to get something. Its not really that strange that it works this way is it?

Unless you have 100 BTC and can buy 1 million NXT, you gotta work. Even if you have 1 million NXT, it would be much better if you invested in the best ideas and allow others to make a living.

I am in the process of coming up with ways normal people can make a living by building stuff on top of NXT, but the more people that contribute such ideas the better. I cant be the only one who has ideas on how to make money with NXT.

Let's play a game. post a way you can think of that somebody can make money with NXT, using the tech that is currently being developed. The best idea as measured by (estimated revenues divided by estimated costs to implement) will win 500 NXT bounty. If there is no consensus as to what idea has the best revenue/cost ratio, i will flip a coin and pick the one I like the best.

Deadline is before I sign off tonight, probably 6 to 8 hrs

James

If I had the knowhow I would be developing the first coin on top of NXT called "Nodecoin". A type of payment system for maintaining an NXT node. Issued at regular intervals. Probably would not be worth much, and would be inflationary, but it would benefit the network greatly by encouraging every NXTer to have NXT in their wallet and keep forging.
Nice! In fact, i am working on a way that non technical users can make their own coins on top of NXT. Just issuing a coin for every block that someone could have forged would give a nice numerical reward to people. This will be a great coin to be a test case for the NXTcoins generator. [need a less confusing name, then again making it clear that something on top of NXT implementing coin tech is a NXTcoin could once and for all clearly communicate that NXT itself is not a coin]

A NXTcoin needs someone to have the idea. Then if they are not technical, they need to find somebody that is and have them fill in the blanks as to the proof of work for the coin, or they can just issue a proof of stake coin and avoid this. havent worked out all the details yet so it is good to have a simple use case. It might be that a one day programming effort could be all that is needed to launch a coin. Utilize the open source exchange and it is open for business. All of the coin transactions are currently envisioned to be within AE so there is no need to develop a wallet.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
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February 17, 2014, 02:13:21 AM
 #34509

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.
Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
gs02xzz
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February 17, 2014, 02:41:52 AM
 #34510

but isnt part of bcexts plan to lower fees and stop greedy hoard and forge? makin it not worth while?


His idea. We don't have to follow it.

Let's play a game. post a way you can think of that somebody can make money with NXT, using the tech that is currently being developed. The best idea as measured by (estimated revenues divided by estimated costs to implement) will win 500 NXT bounty. If there is no consensus as to what idea has the best revenue/cost ratio, i will flip a coin and pick the one I like the best.

Deadline is before I sign off tonight, probably 6 to 8 hrs

James

+1. Maybe we should create a thread dedicated to ideas of building business on NXT and the business models. I am interested in building a small business on NXT, for instance a gift shop. I am still trying to figure out how to do it.
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February 17, 2014, 02:54:44 AM
 #34511

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.
Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.

Nxt:  NXT-5BHG-9VRE-QGW6-DRZVQ
jl777
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February 17, 2014, 03:16:46 AM
 #34512

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.
Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.
Nobody is making free money from mining anymore.Maybe you get lucky and get a windfall now and again, but anything that pays out really well one day is breakeven very soon.

We need to think in terms of there being this vast number of computations and the people that are managing it to maximize revenues from that asset. Wouldnt you do the same if you had the mining rigs?

Understand the other guy and what is important to him. Then maybe there is a way of finding common ground, like give the miners exactly what they want, just make it so they mine on top of NXT.

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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February 17, 2014, 03:19:10 AM
 #34513

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James
yes,more forge means more safer,and we nxters need or should  forge.
But I mean if there is  penalty from tech or math point of view for not forging.
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February 17, 2014, 03:21:22 AM
 #34514

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.
Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.

IMO, most miners are not innovators. Sure, they can do a lot of work looking up the most profitable coin to mine, but they aren't actually contributing anything to the community (besides securing the network, which PoS does for pennies). The only innovators in the mining community I can think of are ASIC manufacturers, they actually are making new technology - which, unfortunately, is making PoW gravitate towards centralization.

I'm not against "useful" mining such as NodeCoin suggested earlier, processing scripts, etc. because it does something that is actually useful. PoW (in the sense of keeping the network secure) is an antiquity.

So to respond to Jame's question, we should make PoW coins on top of NXT that provide useful services. For example, in-line with BCNext's vision, implementing a coin with mining inflation (eventual target ~1%) for everyday use is useful. NodeCoin could be used to reward node operators, and entitle them to buy special node services, thus being valuable (@ZeroTheGreat, this is pretty much proof-of-node). ScriptCoin to run Scripts, etc. So many possibilities!

NXT: 13095091276527367030
grandpa_seth
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February 17, 2014, 03:26:24 AM
 #34515

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.
Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.

Your feeling is exactly right. It is evident when occasionally someone new will post in this thread " I like this coin how can I mine it". They are

mindless zombies stuck in cycle of mmmmmmine......coooooins.....seellll......repeeeeeaaat. "Oh I've heard interesting things about nextcoin

I shall mine this. Where to the selling???" Even those who understand nxt as not a mining coin still say things like "why should I forge when

I don't have a million nxt. It no fair waaaaaa". I'm new to crypto currency and before I bought my first nxt I was fresh off the boat having bought

and mined coins on cryptsy. But to me it was obvious the mining mentality was old news once I read about nxt. And nobody had to tell me

forging is not for getting rich but to help nxt grow. I can not for the life of me understand anybody who doesn't "get" that forging is not

for profit but a small bonus for doing the right thing which is supporting the health of your investment which is nxt. Like James said, IGNORE what

few nxt gets forged. Forging is taking care of your baby. And my baby. It kinda looks like a lil babay. Get in my bellay!!!!!
Voluntold
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February 17, 2014, 03:28:36 AM
 #34516

This creates two classes of users and significantly reduces the percentage of the money supply used to secure the network.

Why? Here we see no explanation but just a statement of "fact" (or in other words "bullshit").

Additionally both of these systems suffer from the potential that a large stake holder could perform a denial of service attack by refusing to include some or all transactions.

They seem to have overlooked the "penalty" for not forging here.

So what is the "penalty" for not forging ?
weakening of NXT infrastructure.

Maybe it is best to think of forging as our civic duty. Doesnt take much effort and every now and again a surprise bonus. Kind of like being forced to buy small payout lotto tickets to support community infrastructure. Even if you dont get any $5 winners, you have done your civic duty and everybody is better off.

I propose that we take this stance on forging. It is NOT a way to make money, it is simple what being part of the NXT community means. We forge so we all have a safer community.

people should feel guilty if they are not forging. It is something that you hope nobody finds out about since it is a shameful thing to not forge for the community good. If you agree with me, please make a similar themed reply for people with "miner's mentality" complaining about small forging revenues.

I am in the process of creating a way that all the people with "miners mentality" will be able to mine to their heart's content and gaining from that. It will be built on top of NXT and be a bridge to the mining community, which to day has not really accepted NXT. After all, why should they? Well, I want to have a big giant tent and if there are thousands of technical guys out there with terahashes of computing power, NXT community should do what it can to bring them into our tent.

This will be achieved, just need a few people to help me.

James

Yeah, "miners mentality" to me is synonymous with "I want demand something for nothing mentality". I do think that incentive is a very important and effective thing though.
Actually, I have to disagree. I started mining to get a better understanding of this "miner's mentality". It is actually not that easy.There are a zillion coins that having invested thousands of dollars into GPU's or actually paying for VPS time to mine a coin means they are businessmen. Invest, work, generate revenue. That is not something for nothing at all. That is getting the most revenue from my investment.

In fact, it is EXACTLY the type of person we want to be building the products and services on top of NXT.

We need to stop this us vs them rhetoric. Just imagine if miners could make more money mining NXTcoins built on top of NXT. What would the implications of that be?

James

I didn't mean that all miners want something for nothing. But from my understading, a lot of these miners have ALREADY invested a lot of money into GPU's and such from previous mining operations like litecoin or whatevercoin, and are then just trying to switch from coin to coin once the difficulty of a certain coin gets too high to be lucrative anymore without buying more and more hardware. I just feel like a lot of them believe the point of crytocurrencies is just to be able to get rich off of running computer hardware and consuming electricity.
Nobody is making free money from mining anymore.Maybe you get lucky and get a windfall now and again, but anything that pays out really well one day is breakeven very soon.

We need to think in terms of there being this vast number of computations and the people that are managing it to maximize revenues from that asset. Wouldnt you do the same if you had the mining rigs?

Understand the other guy and what is important to him. Then maybe there is a way of finding common ground, like give the miners exactly what they want, just make it so they mine on top of NXT.

James

I wouldn't have the rigs in the first place because I saw the obvious advantages to PoS from day 1.

But no, I totally agree with you about making a 'coin' for them to mine on top of NXT. I think it's a great idea.

Nxt:  NXT-5BHG-9VRE-QGW6-DRZVQ
Asian Prepper
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February 17, 2014, 03:46:41 AM
 #34517

Here are the last pieces of the video interview that my buddy Leon Fu and I did with Anon136 about nxt:

What Is The Difference Between The Bitcoin (BTC) Blockchain Vs. The Nextcoin (NXT) Blockchain?

http://prisonorfreedom.com/what-is-the-difference-between-the-bitcoin-btc-blockchain-vs-the-nextcoin-nxt-blockchain/

Why Were Security Flaws Purposely Put Into The Nextcoin (NXT)'s Source Code By It's Developers?
http://prisonorfreedom.com/why-were-security-flaws-purposely-put-into-the-nextcoin-nxts-source-code-by-its-developers/

Who Are The Key Players & Programmers Of The Nextcoin (NXT) Source Code?
http://prisonorfreedom.com/who-are-the-key-players-programmers-of-the-nextcoin-nxt-source-code/

Should Investors Be Worried About Nextcoin (NXT)'S Price Volatility?
http://prisonorfreedom.com/should-investors-be-worried-about-nextcoin-nxts-price-volatility/

I hope these videos with Anon136 will help to educate new adopters and investors of Nxt.

Tai Zen

As of 2014-04-09 I no longer post as "Asian Prepper" and will post under my real name "Tai Zen" to eliminate confusion.

Founder of www.PrisonOrFreedom.com | BTC: 19HHZ1yEimKUYVFM9TkXqd9xwM54jSFrmc | LTC:  LTA99422wieqR1MfWeNxZU5xAsESE9MzW7 | NXT:  17225446755425423638
Komputor
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February 17, 2014, 04:12:00 AM
 #34518

Hi Nxters,

I noticed a cosmetic bug in nexern's blockchain explorer. When you search for an account that doesnt exist, it says "noting found"  Grin
Anyone know who should this be addressed this too?

http://s18.postimg.org/6108dnq49/Screenshot_from_2014_02_17_09_34_25.png
jl777
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February 17, 2014, 04:53:56 AM
 #34519

URGENT: I need to hire some programmers.

I need someone with serverside coding experience

I also need someone with client side coding experience

I also need a Java programmer

I need someone who can deal with generating multisig bitcoin transactions

Preferably somebody that can do more than one of the above things, so from 1 to 4 people. Even if you can only take 2 weeks off from work, we can get a lot done if you can work fulltime. If you need to receive salary for the programming time, I can pay in NXT, just PM me your skills and requirements.

I want to fully implement an automated multisig gateway federation and NXTcoins development kit. I have the bandwidth to manage a half dozen more projects, but I want to concentrate on these two as they are the MOST influential on NXT value and have a large return for investment pretty much guaranteed.

James

P.S. I hope nobody minds if I use the 100000 NXT bounty for automated DAC gateways to fund salary for the automated multisig gateway and part of the 500000 NXTlayers bounty for the NXTcoins dev kit as those are pretty closely related to original bounty description.

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
brooklynbtc
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February 17, 2014, 04:59:26 AM
 #34520

Hi Nxters,

I noticed a cosmetic bug in nexern's blockchain explorer. When you search for an account that doesnt exist, it says "noting found"  Grin
Anyone know who should this be addressed this too?



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