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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2760139 times)
Fatih87SK
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March 08, 2014, 08:18:51 AM
 #41741

What if we only can lease a maximum of 50% of our nxt forging power (or x% amount)? This would help get a low standard deviation for forging fee while if someone want its full forging power for all his nxt, he would still have to run a node.

You are assuming it was "part of the plan" to have a very large number of people running nodes.

The "plan" as far I as understand it now was to have a relatively small number of "super nodes" controlling the network.

The vision of Nxt is/was really to compete with Ripple rather than with anything else.


Damn I knew it. I have been using both and they are very similar, except RIPPLE has instant transactions, cross currency trading (not just XRP to whatever) and no one is asked to run a node or forge. NXT is less centralized ( at this point) but the jury is still out in my mind whether this is a good or bad thing or whether pure decentralization will matter that much in the end. NXT has to compete on features, not ideology.

+1

It's good to secure our decentralized network. But people are more interested about features. If they didn't. Nobody would use Facebook.

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Uniqueorn
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March 08, 2014, 08:21:54 AM
 #41742


They might not "see" it that way, but that is the way it is.  It is backed and run by people who for a living have controlled and undermined the economies and livelihoods of people all over the world.


Well most top hoarders of NXT are the same way. They haven't paid most of us doing hard labour for 3 months now. Most are infact idle. If BTer hadn't added us back in January the price of NXT would've kept climbing down to like 10% of what it is today.
Most of NXTs success is down to luck, random events and hardworkers that got zero pay and now leave.


NXT's top 60 accounts still have like 65% of all NXT and they paid 30-50-100 dollars for it.
It's not a healthy distribution at all because it means all the power is centralized.
You can make the argument (as I have in marketing situations) that Bitcoin's distribution is just as bad, but that's not really a great defense as Bitcoin was the first crypto, the first prototype. We came 5 years later and couldn't even get that right.
NEM will have a lot more incentive for newcomers.

You can't say that a lot of big holders are giving out bounties, they simply aren't.


Quote
That is capitalism and ROI.  That doesn't mean that power is centralized because you don't know the motives of the individuals that hold the currency.


It does indeed mean that, they can afford to pay developers to change all of NXT. Remember NXT is open source now.
Also whenever a founder speak the community follows because they hope some of that wealth is going to drip down on them.


Quote
I'm one of the biggest supporters of helping your fellow man.  Nothing in life is equal, but it should be fair.  NXT is fair.

How is it fair? Hoarders get to sit on their ass and become millionaires while workers get zero? How is that fair?

Quote
Everyone had to purchase their NXT, but not everyone had to purchase their Nem.  Some people got their Nem for free.  Is that fair or equal?

Personally I've critized NEM several times and confronted Utopian about the sockpuppets etc. for a long time, but no I don't think your point shows NEM is anymore unfair than NXT. Sure some have to pay a few dollars to get their share, but in NXT the IPO was cut short so others couldn't join... That's way worse. NEM at least said how many they would accept.

Quote
All the message said was that marketing funds shouldn't be used on charity.

I agree with this.  We can't save the world.  It's terrible that there are children starving in a third world country, but guess what, there are starving children living on my block.  If people have economic freedom, they should be able to feed themselves, provided they are healthy and capable of work.

No it directly critized Justabit and Nifty and portrayed them as working for this charity. They aren't working for this charity at all, they used it as a marketing tool. Back in December we sent JustaBit and Nifty to the Bitcoin conference in Miami where they made a lot of connections and helped put NXT on the map and this is how they are to be repayed?
If someone had issues iwth it they should've taken it public, sending PMs to people to get their votes while lying is downright fuckedup.

Same strategy Salsacz used against me. He quote mined shit and said things out of context to make people uncertain about certain things, while at the same time chatting with me on Skype about the same things acting like nothing Smiley This community is far from healthy.
But I no longer give a fuck as it has become beyond evident for anyone with a average IQ
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March 08, 2014, 08:24:03 AM
 #41743

Usability is KING!

A visitor of Nextcoin.org tells about his experience and why Nxt is difficult to use for newbees. I totally agree with him, usability is more important than futuristic features. How can we solve this problem?

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4339.new.html


We need a passphrase generator like the one in Electrum, it is naive to expect people know how to create a strong passphrase

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March 08, 2014, 08:30:37 AM
 #41744

...

the transaction fees are still too damn high, forging rewards are way to low & come too slow for all but the richest Nxters.

...

Slow? Maybe. Low? No, everyone gets the same percentage. Anyways, you can't have high forging rewards and low fees.

Well I've been at it over 1 month with 10k NXT and haven't seen a single block. Supposedly I'll get 100 Nxt sometime in the next 11 months but in the meantime it sure seems like a waste of time and the longer I wait the less I believe it. It's not about the Nxt for me, I've given away far more than that, but it makes me concerned for the system as a whole as I don't think many people will bother with forging if this is how it is.
10K nxt and you expect 'mining' reward? So you would invest less than a bitcoin in a PoW hardware and you would expect reward too?
Do I miss something?

I don't quite know how to get my point across on this issue without continually being accused of complaining about not getting rewarded personally.  

Bitcoin does not need a majority of holders to mine. Their network is secure as long as a small percentage of people engage in mining. They don't even have to be holding Bitcoin, they can dump it to  FIAT as soon as they get it. You can't tell people not to compare forging with mining and then turn around and do it yourself.

NXT as far as I understand it needs a larger percentage of it's userbase to be forging than bitcoin does or the network will be insecure.

If this is the case, then you are going to have to incentivize these holders or the wide majority of them will simply not forge (again, I'm not referring to myself, stay focused here) . They'll log in and out when they want to use it, if they decide to use NXT at all. These "little people" are going to be exposing their machine to a possible DDOS attack, have to run their computer 24/7 (Most people shut them off at night) and be giving up processing power they don't need to (someone who uses their computer for video editing wants to eliminate every unneeded MB CPU power)

I understand that there's nodecoin being created on top of the network, which I am hopeful will be enough to motivate the needed constituency to forge. My worry there is that 99% of potential NXT users might not bother with the AE or want to go to all that trouble. It sounds kinda like something just for the nerds to do & I want NXT to be for everyone, not just nerds and nerdtrepreneurs. ( and I use the term nerd endearingly, not as a pejorative)

So once again I am not bringing up this issue because I am dissatisfied with my return. I am thinking about the bigger picture in the future when everyday normal people will be using NXT. If the entire networks' survival depends on a certain percentage of these people to be forging then this FACT has to be taken into account when figuring out how to motivate just enough of them, preferably more than that, to contribute. It is a mathematical issue, not a financial one. The devs need to face the fact that 99% of people will follow the path of least resistance. If 99% of NXT users not forging is OK for the network to work then I am cool with it. If not then I think this issue needs to be taken a lot more seriously because the very survival of NXT just might depend on it.

In my opinion, you're better off dishing out smaller rewards at a faster pace. People are like lab rats who feel rewarded when they get a pellet. It would be better to get .001 NXT every couple of days than 10 NXT after many months. It is simple psychology. Almost every successful software "invention" these days is successful because it's addicting. Twitter, facebook, Angry Birds, Flappy Birds, Candy Crush, Farmville. All very successful and all very addicting. Give the people their pellets and they will forge.

I had an, albeit flawed, idea the other day about dividing the block reward 50/50 between the block forger and the other nodes online.  For example, let's say the block reward was 25 NXT.  The forging node would receive 12.5 NXT and all the other nodes on the network would split the other 12.5 NXT.  If there were one thousand nodes online, then they would each get 0.0125 NXT.

This was flawed because of the network topology issue of knowing which nodes are online.  The only work around I can think of is to keep a master list that is broadcast to every node which lists all the nodes seen online in the last 24 hours.  Then these nodes would be rewarded.

I'm glad you are at least thinking of potential solutions. It's hard for me to troubleshoot because I don't know what'g going on in the core of the forging algorithm and not sure what is and isn't possible. All I know is it is a potential serious flaw that could make all the difference in the world.

One I've posed before is to have a percentage of all transactions go to a lottery fund that gets awarded occasionally at a random day and time to someone who is forging. This would "cost" the network less yet inspire people to keep forging so as not to give up their "lottery ticket". But again i don't even know if that would be possible. Just know something is needed. Hopefully NODECOIn will do the trick, but my big fear there is average users who just spend NXT and don't care about AE not being able to take advantage of it. I think the solution would be better coming from the lowest level rather than an upper layer.

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March 08, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
 #41745

So I started a Wikipedia entry for NXT.

It's titled NXT Coin and here's the link for whoever would like to contribute information to it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/NXT_Coin

I will continue to edit and add information, I have little time today so I'd figure a start is good for now.

The name is Nxt, not Nxtcoin and as I said please don't repost it on Wikipedia. This is absolutely against Wikipedia policy. Wikipedia should not be used to promote yourself. I hope the article gets deleted soon.

Nxt should be promoted in mainstream media. It needs to become notable. Once that is done, it will show up in Wikipedia -- without you doing anything.

I hate when Wikipedia is abused for self promotion


It wasn't for self promotion, I really don't see how you even came to that conclusion.  Someone mentioned it in the forum and I said, "f-it I'll just start one, why the f*** not?".  I am not very capable of writing a correct article on it, so I started it so other people in the community could add to it,edit and correct it as needed.

It's really about educating people that are not knowledgeable about crypto and might be curious.

But if you take it the other way, then f*** it. I'll just stop trying to help because obviously I'm doing it for myself even though I have done one giveaway, run a couple nodes and even ordered a r-pi to set up, have donated back to the cache system in Peer Explorer, try to help people in my immediate life into crypto and explain how this could be the financial solution the world needs.  Nah, I must be a selfish greedy ass**** just out for himself.

I'm done with these communities, you ask for the community to be a community but the first chance you get you bash the people trying to help.
I'm not a big stake holder or even came in when it was still cheaper than now, I'm not even a wealthy man, I'm just barely making it into middle class. I try to do my part, but if it's going to be like this then I'm done.  I'll just sit from the sidelines quietly and become a stale account holder.
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March 08, 2014, 08:34:50 AM
 #41746


They might not "see" it that way, but that is the way it is.  It is backed and run by people who for a living have controlled and undermined the economies and livelihoods of people all over the world.


Well most top hoarders of NXT are the same way. They haven't paid most of us doing hard labour for 3 months now. Most are infact idle. If BTer hadn't added us back in January the price of NXT would've kept climbing down to like 10% of what it is today.
Most of NXTs success is down to luck, random events and hardworkers that got zero pay and now leave.


The stakeholders are NOT the "same way".  NXT has nothing to do with usury capitalism.

No one is guaranteed of getting paid anything.  You have no idea who is "idle" because no one knows who controls what account.


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March 08, 2014, 08:38:29 AM
 #41747


How is it fair? Hoarders get to sit on their ass investment and become millionaires while workers get zero? How is that fair?


FTFY

I would not advise anyone to work on NXT, if they do not own NXT.


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March 08, 2014, 08:41:36 AM
 #41748

No it directly critized Justabit and Nifty and portrayed them as working for this charity. They aren't working for this charity at all, they used it as a marketing tool. Back in December we sent JustaBit and Nifty to the Bitcoin conference in Miami where they made a lot of connections and helped put NXT on the map and this is how they are to be repayed?
If someone had issues iwth it they should've taken it public, sending PMs to people to get their votes while lying is downright fuckedup.

Same strategy Salsacz used against me. He quote mined shit and said things out of context to make people uncertain about certain things, while at the same time chatting with me on Skype about the same things acting like nothing Smiley This community is far from healthy.
But I no longer give a fuck as it has become beyond evident for anyone with a average IQ

What are you going to do?  I don't think people should talk behind other peoples' backs, but people are people.  This community is just as healthy as any other community.  Some people just aren't going to get along.


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March 08, 2014, 08:44:14 AM
 #41749

Usability is KING!

A visitor of Nextcoin.org tells about his experience and why Nxt is difficult to use for newbees. I totally agree with him, usability is more important than futuristic features. How can we solve this problem?

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4339.new.html


We need a passphrase generator like the one in Electrum, it is naive to expect people know how to create a strong passphrase

usability and easy access should be a priority.

Right now there is a good chance that a search about Nxt will lead me to http://www.nxtcrypto.org/.

Step 1: Downloading is doable
Step 2: Batch file ... oki what is this. A lot of people will already give up.
Some will create a bat file and it won't work, because there have been problems with the bat file and newer versions. More people will give up.
Step 3: Navigate to the link posted doesnt work with the newer versions as well. I had to change https to http. More people will give up.
Step 4: Password. Not a big deal imo. As long it is clearly stated that you cannot change the password in the future and if you lose it your money is gone.
Step 5: Start forging. No Link available.

Im reading the thread regularly but i had to check several other forum posts to get this thing running.

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March 08, 2014, 08:45:31 AM
 #41750

Um, wha?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=501963.500

Suddenly coins come out of nowhere and get on top?


But the only relevant question: since we lost, did BTC38 state they're going to add NXT regardless it's not the 1st place in voting? Are they going to add a dozen?


(Can't believe there are worthless copycoins that get more votes than NXT who has 2200 pages. Guess the innovation ain't important, just that the coin has something they relate to)
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March 08, 2014, 08:45:58 AM
 #41751

... the community/early adopters should find a way to cover his (and the other core devs) expenses.
My personal opinion is that 1/3 of unclaimed funds should go for audit/whitepaper, 1/3 for core devs and 1/3 for marketing.
- agree 100% !  No infrastructure committee needed.

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, the Next platform.  Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
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NXT is the future


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March 08, 2014, 08:47:48 AM
 #41752

good news, I have lobbied to add NXT on https://www.litebit.eu/

NXT will be ADDED NEXT WEEK !!!!

this is big becausse you can buy NXT with mistercash, ideal, etc...


this is a new gateway to fiat also. MARKETING, GO PROMOTE IT PLS

Pin

NXT: 12088507821025750338


Good news NXT is added. you can buy and sell NXT for fiat here:


https://www.litebit.eu/en/

a second gateway to gold and silver will be added next week:

http://www.bitgild.com/


I have put a lot of hours in NXT but donations are disappointing. Sad


NXT: 12088507821025750338

2Kool4Skewl
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March 08, 2014, 08:52:09 AM
 #41753

I'm glad you are at least thinking of potential solutions. It's hard for me to troubleshoot because I don't know what'g going on in the core of the forging algorithm and not sure what is and isn't possible. All I know is it is a potential serious flaw that could make all the difference in the world.

One I've posed before is to have a percentage of all transactions go to a lottery fund that gets awarded occasionally at a random day and time to someone who is forging. This would "cost" the network less yet inspire people to keep forging so as not to give up their "lottery ticket". But again i don't even know if that would be possible. Just know something is needed. Hopefully NODECOIn will do the trick, but my big fear there is average users who just spend NXT and don't care about AE not being able to take advantage of it. I think the solution would be better coming from the lowest level rather than an upper layer.

Thank you for coming up with ideas, but the biggest problem is that people think that NXT is going to be like Bitcoin 2009.  NXT is bitcoin 2140.  There are no coinbase rewards.

If people are upset that they aren't receiving more NXT, they need to purchase more NXT.  NXT is the equivalent of a non-depreciating mining asset.

If small NXT holders don't forge, it's not a big deal because they don't control enough of the currency to matter.  They only lose out.


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March 08, 2014, 08:53:03 AM
 #41754

(Can't believe there are worthless copycoins that get more votes than NXT who has 2200 pages. Guess the innovation ain't important, just that the coin has something they relate to)

Some people control more than one bitcointalk account.


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March 08, 2014, 08:55:11 AM
 #41755

So I started a Wikipedia entry for NXT.

It's titled NXT Coin and here's the link for whoever would like to contribute information to it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/NXT_Coin

I will continue to edit and add information, I have little time today so I'd figure a start is good for now.

The name is Nxt, not Nxtcoin and as I said please don't repost it on Wikipedia. This is absolutely against Wikipedia policy. Wikipedia should not be used to promote yourself. I hope the article gets deleted soon.

Nxt should be promoted in mainstream media. It needs to become notable. Once that is done, it will show up in Wikipedia -- without you doing anything.

I hate when Wikipedia is abused for self promotion




It wasn't for self promotion, I really don't see how you even came to that conclusion.  Someone mentioned it in the forum and I said, "f-it I'll just start one, why the f*** not?".  I am not very capable of writing a correct article on it, so I started it so other people in the community could add to it,edit and correct it as needed.

It's really about educating people that are not knowledgeable about crypto and might be curious.

But if you take it the other way, then f*** it. I'll just stop trying to help because obviously I'm doing it for myself even though I have done one giveaway, run a couple nodes and even ordered a r-pi to set up, have donated back to the cache system in Peer Explorer, try to help people in my immediate life into crypto and explain how this could be the financial solution the world needs.  Nah, I must be a selfish greedy ass**** just out for himself.

I'm done with these communities, you ask for the community to be a community but the first chance you get you bash the people trying to help.
I'm not a big stake holder or even came in when it was still cheaper than now, I'm not even a wealthy man, I'm just barely making it into middle class. I try to do my part, but if it's going to be like this then I'm done.  I'll just sit from the sidelines quietly and become a stale account holder.

I don't think you should let one person't comment influence your decision whether to stick with it or not. Personally I think too many people are letting their feelings get in the way of progress. Folks, this is MONEY. It's not a feel good retreat or a Grateful dead concert. Everyone here is motivated by the possibility of earning via investment and development. Either you believe this will be successful based on the potential and stick with it, or believe it will fail because of the 'too many chefs' problem inherent in decentralized efforts. Any decision should be based on rational self interest, not because someone on a forum criticized one of your efforts. If you want to add an entry to Wikepedia do it because you think it will help the price rise, which will make you money. Don't expect everyone here to throw NXT at you though or for everyone to agree with you. I get shot down here all the time, I get misunderstood, I get into back and forths but I don't take it personally. I keep at it because I am interested in seeing my investment grow.

It's interesting seeing all these Ayn Rand loving libertarian types getting upset over ego issues, hurt feelings and personal squabbles .

NXT: 4957831430947123625
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March 08, 2014, 09:00:49 AM
 #41756



Quote
If people are upset that they aren't receiving more NXT, they need to purchase more NXT.  NXT is the equivalent of a non-depreciating mining asset.

If people are upset that they aren't receiving more NXT, they might decide to purchase more Ether (or whatever).

Quote
If small NXT holders don't forge, it's not a big deal because they don't control enough of the currency to matter.  They only lose out.

Is there a mathematical known ratio regarding this? ie: For every 10 users 1 needs to be forging?

If a significant number of users can keep their clients locked without it being a problem then I am satisfied. I would do it for free.

NXT: 4957831430947123625
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March 08, 2014, 09:01:52 AM
 #41757

It's interesting seeing all these Ayn Rand loving libertarian types getting upset over ego issues, hurt feelings and personal squabbles .

To me it's interesting that anyone actually bothers to read all of Atlas Shrugged (the only book of hers I read). I did try to but ended up skipping over pages (of diatribe) as I found it more tedious reading that stuff than it is for me to spend a week of debugging to find a misplaced comma in source code.

Cheesy

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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March 08, 2014, 09:03:03 AM
 #41758

It's interesting seeing all these Ayn Rand loving libertarian types getting upset over ego issues, hurt feelings and personal squabbles .

To me it's interesting that anyone actually bothers to read all of Atlas Shrugged (the only book of hers I read). I did try to but ended up skipping over pages (of diatribe) as I found it more tedious reading that than it is for me to spend a week of debugging to find a misplaced comma in source code.

Cheesy


haha true, +1
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March 08, 2014, 09:04:18 AM
 #41759

... the community/early adopters should find a way to cover his (and the other core devs) expenses.
My personal opinion is that 1/3 of unclaimed funds should go for audit/whitepaper, 1/3 for core devs and 1/3 for marketing.
- agree 100% !  No infrastructure committee needed.

Brilliant point in time to start a discussion about the need for infrastructure committee ...  Roll Eyes

In my opinion, not seeing the need for an infrastucture commitee, just because there are right now more pressing issues is extremely short-sighted.

Do we have a good idea about the NXT network?
How many stable nodes do we have? Who operates them and how are they being paid for? Will these nodes still exist in 3, 6, 12 months?
Do we have enough public nodes?
Does anyone remember when we were DDOSed? Are we in danger? How will we react in the future?
Do we have a good testnet to support developers? Long-term? Can we reset the blockchain at community will and still have a stable testnet?
What changes are necessary in the core to make nodes run more effectively and lower the amount of network data?
What changes are necessary in the core to let people run nodes on low tech hard hardware (e.g. solar powered RaspberryPi's - think marketing)


The day will come that NXT will have a NXT infrastructure problem and everyone will cry and scream...

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March 08, 2014, 09:05:44 AM
 #41760

I have put a lot of hours in NXT but donations are disappointing. Sad


Won't you be happy when the price goes up?  That's why I take a lot of time to help new users, promote NXT on the internet, talk to people about it and giving people NXT to open new accounts. There are people here far more deserving of donations than me. I do it because I hope my actions will help spread the word and make my investment grow.

I do throw NXT at people when I'm impressed by an action but there's a lot of impressive actions and I only have so much NXT.

I never donate when someone begs though.

NXT: 4957831430947123625
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