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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756302 times)
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:02:31 PM
 #42561

How do you want to prevent people creating pools?

It seems to me that the comprehension problem I have right now is why would anybody want a PoS coin not to be secured by TF.

Until now, there is no such thing as TF => NXT has no TF.

With TF, every node can decide without any doubt what is wrong and what is right.
TF would not be gameable.
TF would not allow cheating.
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March 09, 2014, 11:03:38 PM
 #42562

I don't think the official client should let people generate their password by default.

It should be like with Bitcoin, because people are used to that.  "NXT = Account/password" -  "BTC = PublicKey/Privatekey"


When people first open the client an account is automatically generated and people can receive coin immediatly . The password is saved in a "wallet.dat" equivalent. The user doesn't have to know it unless he search for it.

More advanced users could still create their own password and deactivate the wallet.dat creation for a real brainwallet.

But i think if we want a mass adoption, it need to be extremely easy to use.
The first step to mass adoption is adoption by the bitcoin crowd and those people are used to the wallet.dat. For those people, a wallet.dat is far more secure than a choosen password ( one guy just lose 400k NXT because he used a 8char password)



EDIT : In this thread there is a lot of very skilled people, very tech-savy, programmers, etc...So the discussion tend to revolve around those persons and their needs
Normal user/noob don't post here, so they are easily forgotten. But we shouldn't forgot that at the end of the day, they are the one that NXT need to convince. And for that, it need to be extremely easy to use !


I agree.

The NRS brainwallet interface was a cool experiment.  That experiment failed.

As you say, keep the NRS brainwallet inteface for advanced users.  Default users should get a strong NRS passphrase generated for them which they never see unless they go into advanced options, and can specify what ever simple password they want (that they can optionally change at any time) to open their client on their computer.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:04:30 PM
 #42563

One idea (which I will not take credit for, only restating in this context) was that perhaps 'effectiveBalance' (ie: forging power == 'leased + owned NXT') could be capped to prevent large pools.

Yes I think that should be one of the "settings" for a parallel chain (and maybe we ought to think about having such a limit on the main chain also).


And I still do not think what the purpose of this is except annoying stakeholders.
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March 09, 2014, 11:09:57 PM
 #42564

So, using guid we can lookup the txid to verify that Evil Bob's txid he submits is different than the real one and reject him. There is no way for Evil Bob to change the GUID. 10 confirmations is recommended.

Anyone can change transaction. All that u need is to rely on guid.
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March 09, 2014, 11:10:05 PM
 #42565

Is it correct ?
http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=3000&acc=10388

I think this short wallet number.
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March 09, 2014, 11:10:11 PM
 #42566

How do you want to prevent people creating pools?

It seems to me that the comprehension problem I have right now is why would anybody want a PoS coin not to be secured by TF.

Until now, there is no such thing as TF => NXT has no TF.

With TF, every node can decide without any doubt what is wrong and what is right.
TF would not be gameable.
TF would not allow cheating.

You have to read the whole dialog from today to understand my post. You put my quote out of context.

1. I asked why some parallel chains would not want to choose TF
2. I asked how to prevent pools in these chains without TF
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March 09, 2014, 11:11:06 PM
 #42567


Why shouldn't it be?

But it is very unlikely that somebody has control over this account.
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:11:13 PM
 #42568

Instant Transactions can't work without TF (at least part of its functions), so I'm going to add some TF features. I've already added API that lets to get list of next forgers. Next step is adding a special type of transaction that announces IPs for direct communication with the forgers (to get blocks, to send transactions).

Nice to hear.
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March 09, 2014, 11:12:06 PM
 #42569

Until now, there is no such thing as TF => NXT has no TF.

Not 100% correct. We have 50% of it.
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:12:53 PM
 #42570

I agree his actions are beyond reckless, but HIS ACTIONS ARE KILLING NXT.  When one guy loses 20% of his portfolio on NXT due to poor password security and tweets it out to *** 2100 *** followers, WE JUST LOST 2100 PEOPLE WHO WON'T TOUCH NXT NOW. 

THIS IS A DISASTER.

WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS DISASTER  IF WE HAD IMPLEMENTED INTEGRATED AUTOMATIC STRONG PASSWORD GENERATION IN ALL CLIENTS A MONTH AGO.

ARE WE IN AGREEMENT TO IMPLEMENT IT ACROSS THE BOARD NOW?



There is no such thing as bad publicity Smiley

Ah, yeah.
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March 09, 2014, 11:13:13 PM
 #42571


Why shouldn't it be?

But it is very unlikely that somebody has control over this account.

What are the chances?
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:16:15 PM
 #42572

How do you want to prevent people creating pools?

It seems to me that the comprehension problem I have right now is why would anybody want a PoS coin not to be secured by TF.

Until now, there is no such thing as TF => NXT has no TF.

With TF, every node can decide without any doubt what is wrong and what is right.
TF would not be gameable.
TF would not allow cheating.

You have to read the whole dialog from today to understand my post. You put my quote out of context.

1. I asked why some parallel chains would not want to choose TF
2. I asked how to prevent pools in these chains without TF

Why should pools be prevented at all?
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:22:46 PM
 #42573

In my thinking there are two balances, - apologies if this is a bit long....

The Reserve Balance which is an amount of NXT you cannot withdraw and you can initiate instant transactions up to that level - this is a permanent reserve until cancelled.

The other balance is the Instant Balance which is updated as soon as an instant transaction is broadcast by a node i.e. 0 confirmations.
This reflects the liability the account has created with an instant transaction.
The node the transaction is broadcast through will have an realtime view of this because it will update the accounts instant balance before broadcasting the tx, all nodes seeing the TX will also update the instant balance for that account.
If the account tries to initiate more TX that would make Instant Balance > Reserve Balance this would create an error.

An attack vector such as you describe would rely on being able to send the TX through a node which had not yet updated its instant balance total for the account in question.

For instant transactions to work I would want to ensure that both accounts had to be connected to a node and both nodes had the same view of the instant transaction balance of the sending account. If the seller is logged into the buyer node then this is a possible edge case attack.

This means that the sellers account can confirm that there are sufficient reserved funds for the instant purchase because it also has a view of the buyers instant balance that it can verify with other nodes - this would be a possible client verification/check  during the purchasing process, the seller NRS node is passive in this process other than providing data to the sellers software client.

Even if the buyer switches nodes, the seller doesn't and the sellers node reconciles the instant balance of the sellers account using normal time line rules.... So unless the buyer can get the seller onto a node that doesn't know the buyers balance or initiate trades with lots of sellers which it knows are connected to nodes which won't get the instant balance update then an attack will fail ( I think)


Once the instant TX is confirmed the liability reduces and the instant balance can be reduced.


Me, as a bad buyer could easily game the system by replaying all the transactions over and over again, in order let nodes delete all (except one). I can play this game over and over again.

I would rather have a combination of http://qubic.boards.net/thread/9/fighting-scam (hope CfB does not mind) and CCT.

One part we missing so far is that the seller can cheat as well.

We should have a refunding transaction instead of arbitrary limits.
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March 09, 2014, 11:25:20 PM
 #42574

Guys, relax!

Password generator will get implemented in Wesleyh's installer (NRS + nice GUI). And now, move on.

Please read this monster thread before you post Wink

Thank you.

OK,cool. I was just checking up on progress for this week coming. I think Pinarello was helping to make sure it happens. That is, Wesley's client becoming the official one. I'm going to keep banging on about it until it's done.

I pretty sure this Alvin Lee character is a woman from Netherlands. It's hard to believe she used a short password with 20% of her portfolio. Hopefully she tweets about the new client next week.
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March 09, 2014, 11:27:57 PM
 #42575

There is no such thing as bad publicity Smiley

Agreed! Smiley
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:29:19 PM
 #42576

Until now, there is no such thing as TF => NXT has no TF.

Not 100% correct. We have 50% of it.

You made me smile.

-----

You have seen my analysis: as far as I can tell, the 90%-deterministic approach would be susceptible to the puppet-account attack as would be the 100%-deterministic approach.
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:36:45 PM
 #42577

@CfB

It would be advisable to have 51%-attack protection in place rather than the 34%-attack protection.
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March 09, 2014, 11:40:53 PM
 #42578

Crazy idea, someone has already thought of it?
A coin as the NXT might have similar features with ebay?

1 - I own the account 111111
2 - I want to buy something from the seller who has the account 22222
3 - I send 100NXT, which would be trapped in blockchain at to confirm that I received my purchase.
4 - If I receive the product unlock the 100NXT account for 222.
5 - If not receive but gets stuck and only come back to me if the account venderdor 222 mark as not completed.
6 - Upon completion of the deal or not, we could both evaluate and add 1 point to the "reputation system" of accounts.
7 - Accounts with high reputation, could mediate situations where there was no agreement.

So instead of being added to ebay, etc ... that is the dream of any currency, would replace. To facilitate the exchange of NXT for other currencies without using exchange.
What if acct 111111 receives the product, but doesnt mark it as so? acct 22222 will not be happy.
If you can solve that part, this could work

James

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
jl777
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March 09, 2014, 11:42:18 PM
 #42579

So, using guid we can lookup the txid to verify that Evil Bob's txid he submits is different than the real one and reject him. There is no way for Evil Bob to change the GUID. 10 confirmations is recommended.

Anyone can change transaction. All that u need is to rely on guid.

OK, so I change all my code to treat GUID as txid and just ignore the current txid's when this is available and all will be well

http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
ChuckOne
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March 09, 2014, 11:42:55 PM
 #42580

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/commits/45cc27d7b90cda5f41a5fc2bb5b29384fa84a207

Interesting. Thought that this would be obvious. But good to know it's in place now.
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