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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756163 times)
LemonAndFries
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March 13, 2014, 02:40:00 PM
 #43901

I would love to promote the crap out of NXT, but how can I if I have to explain:

You are hired.

Me: "Well its an asset exchange Joe."
Joe: "well don't we have the stock market for that already? no need to invest in something that only super computer nerds know how to work.  If our stock marekt aint broke, don't fix it"

Me: "Of course we have them. But, have you heard about MtGox? That cannot happen to NXT."
Joe: "Ah, alright. What's more?"
Me: "Furthermore, it's easy. That new client works like a charm. Have you seen it?"
Joe: "Nope."
Me: "Let me show it to you."
...

Me: "Let me show you how this really hard to use client that will confuse you works"

Joe: "it's ok, I'll just stick to my dollars. No need to waste money on something that is not even fully operational yet"

I've been getting asked about MT GOX from everyone I know because they know I have more knowledge than them.

So far, what once was motivating them and almost convincing them to invest has now disappeared.

That is a horrible example, I actually had to explain to a few of them that MTGOX is not the CEO of bitcoin and that NXT is completely seperate.
They still think NXT is a coin, if I start mentioning asset exchange I can guarantee you they will be completely turned off and not even interested anymore.

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

It can't be both?

It can, but not if the concensus is "NXT is not a coin, it's an asset exchange blah blah blah"

I already tried and the half-tards keep telling me it's NOT A COIN.

So talk to your so supportive NXT community because they seem to not want it to be a coin.

This will be the downfall of NXT if no one can agree on what it really is.
You can't even mention NXT coin because a million keyboards will go off at the same time to correct you saying it is not a coin.
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Isildur23
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March 13, 2014, 02:40:18 PM
 #43902

Can i get some testnxt?

8619009819187075604

Thanks in advance!

Ties are a prison for the soul...
VanBreuk
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March 13, 2014, 02:41:45 PM
 #43903

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?
Come-from-Beyond
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March 13, 2014, 02:41:55 PM
 #43904

Thanks, but neither worked.

I have some simple questions...

1) Calculating the HIT with SHA256(generationSignature, publicKey)...
*) generationSignature of the block - Okey
a) publicKey the "generator" of the block or my account? - Ur account.
b) hash("sha256", hex2bin($generationSignature) . $accountPublicKey); or hash("sha256", hex2bin($generationSignature) . hex2bin($accountPublicKey)); - Binary.

2) $deadline = $hit / ($baseTarget * $totalEffectiveBalance); or $deadline = $hit / ($baseTarget * $effectiveBalance);
a) $totalEffectiveBalance of getState()
b) $effectiveBalance my account (getBalance()). - This.

Thanks!
LemonAndFries
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March 13, 2014, 02:43:53 PM
 #43905

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?

Why do all that when you have real estate brokers for that and other ways of doing it?

I am doing broker for a few people, some of them even professors, and they don't even want to deal with all of this.

They said "I don't want to deal with it, here's some money for you to deal with it for me"

It won't matter if people are still wiling to pay someone else to be a broker for them.

The average Joe doesn't care about the asset exchange.
Fatih87SK
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March 13, 2014, 02:48:13 PM
 #43906

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?

Why do all that when you have real estate brokers for that and other ways of doing it?

I am doing broker for a few people, some of them even professors, and they don't even want to deal with all of this.

They said "I don't want to deal with it, here's some money for you to deal with it for me"

It won't matter if people are still wiling to pay someone else to be a broker for them.

The average Joe doesn't care about the asset exchange.

Average Joe does not care about Bitcoin either.

NXT has the potential to make care, because NXT can be more user friendly than Bitcoin is.
It can be faster and safer etc.

Daedelus
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March 13, 2014, 02:49:06 PM
 #43907

I would love to promote the crap out of NXT, but how can I if I have to explain:

You are hired.

Me: "Well its an asset exchange Joe."
Joe: "well don't we have the stock market for that already? no need to invest in something that only super computer nerds know how to work.  If our stock marekt aint broke, don't fix it"

Me: "Of course we have them. But, have you heard about MtGox? That cannot happen to NXT."
Joe: "Ah, alright. What's more?"
Me: "Furthermore, it's easy. That new client works like a charm. Have you seen it?"
Joe: "Nope."
Me: "Let me show it to you."
...

Me: "Let me show you how this really hard to use client that will confuse you works"

Joe: "it's ok, I'll just stick to my dollars. No need to waste money on something that is not even fully operational yet"

I've been getting asked about MT GOX from everyone I know because they know I have more knowledge than them.

So far, what once was motivating them and almost convincing them to invest has now disappeared.

That is a horrible example, I actually had to explain to a few of them that MTGOX is not the CEO of bitcoin and that NXT is completely seperate.
They still think NXT is a coin, if I start mentioning asset exchange I can guarantee you they will be completely turned off and not even interested anymore.

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

It can't be both?

It can, but not if the concensus is "NXT is not a coin, it's an asset exchange blah blah blah"

I already tried and the half-tards keep telling me it's NOT A COIN.

So talk to your so supportive NXT community because they seem to not want it to be a coin.

This will be the downfall of NXT if no one can agree on what it really is.
You can't even mention NXT coin because a million keyboards will go off at the same time to correct you saying it is not a coin.

BCNext intended it not to be a coin to be used as currency (I think it is in the first or second part of his essay, rather than in his post history).

But you can't control how people will use it. So, sell it to them as a coin if you want, no one can stop you.

But the chances are, a better coin will be built of top of Nxt (to suit your needed use or world view of the creator). I doubt the value of the Nxts will be derived by its use as a currency in the future, more from how important it is in supporting more useful services.
wesleyh
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March 13, 2014, 02:49:55 PM
 #43908

Did nr 1 and 2, I just added a little exclamation mark next to the Fee which should draw attention to it.

Not going to do nr 3 at this time though, you can simply click on view more to view the full list Smiley Maybe later.


On the todo list :-) thx

thanks,

asset creation at 1000 nxt - does this need a summary screen and a do you really want to do this...
I'm just imagining the screams of 'I spent 1000 nxt and made a typo and this client didn't stop me from doing it'...

the asset equivalent of a short password screw up...

In fact there are a few places for a confirmation screen... Could be a user switch - default 'on' - experienced trader can default this to 'off'
Would make them just a quick summary of the action with a 'yes/no' - it might be worth thinking where and if to put these...

EDIT: like the groups... is it possible to make them collapse to just the header i.e. save space when you are not using them?

EDIT 2: can I suggest you make this type of pane scrollable - it would work really nice on the mac Smiley


rickyjames
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March 13, 2014, 02:50:25 PM
 #43909

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?

The average Joe doesn't care about the asset exchange.

What IS the value of NXT today as currency?  What can you SPEND NXT on?  We are less than four months old so we get something of a pass from people who assume we are setting up the ability to SPEND as a CURRENCY.  That good will is going to fade and I think it is starting to fade now.  Folks, don't blow LemonAndFries off as another emule - he is trying hard to point out a real weakness we have that we MUST address.
Daedelus
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March 13, 2014, 02:51:14 PM
 #43910

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?



The average Joe doesn't care about the asset exchange.

I don't believe they are meant to.
Touque
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March 13, 2014, 02:51:38 PM
 #43911

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

+1. Totally agree and I can tell why it is true.

The value of nodecoins solely come from the running the Nxt nodes (protecting the network) which actually has been run with Nxtcoins, for instance, running nodes have a change to win Nxtcoins as the rewards. Now on top of that the Nxtcoin rewards, nodecoins become the second rewards for that. It is a pure redundant thing to do so. If you want reward more for running Nxt nodes you can simple reward them more Nxtcoins as the transaction fees (in the future, with more business built on Nxt and more transactions running on the Nxt, the nodes/forgings will get much more reward fees event with the reduction of the transaction fee). Nxtcoins' value is from their protecting the Nxt network. The nodecoins' value is also from their protecting the Nxt network. To let nodecoins do so, you actually put nodecoins and Nxtcoins in the same position. The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have.  Nodecoins will easily dilute Nxtcoins. We already have Nxtcoins to be used to protect the network and transactions and they are scarce. we don't need another coin to do the same work. We can create some other coins for creative business built on top of Nxt.
wesleyh
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March 13, 2014, 02:53:06 PM
 #43912

If you ask me we should be able to call the Nxt currency Nxt coin. Better marketing.

But Nxt coin is just 1 small part of Nxt Platform.. which encompasses Nxt messaging, Nxt AE, Nxt Alias system, etc...

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?

The average Joe doesn't care about the asset exchange.

What IS the value of NXT today as currency?  What can you SPEND NXT on?  We are less than four months old so we get something of a pass from people who assume we are setting up the ability to SPEND as a CURRENCY.  That good will is going to fade and I think it is starting to fade now.  Folks, don't blow LemonAndFries off as another emule - he is trying hard to point out a real weakness we have that we MUST address.
rickyjames
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March 13, 2014, 02:55:54 PM
 #43913


BCNext intended it not to be a coin to be used as currency (I think it is in the first or second part of his essay, rather than in his post history).

But you can't control how people will use it. So, sell it to them as a coin if you want, no one can stop you.

But the chances are, a better coin will be built of top of Nxt (to suit your needed use or world view of the creator). I doubt the value of the Nxts will be derived by its use as a currency in the future, more from how important it is in supporting more useful services.

I have a lot of respect for BCNext getting the ball rolling but HE HAS BAILED OUT OF THIS AIRPLANE THROUGH THE COCKPIT WINDOW.  What his intentions were about not using NXT as a coin are now IRRELEVANT.  And if we build a new coin into the NXT blockchain to be our primary unit of value as a coin (nodecoin?) then I truly believe we are going to kill NXT.  NXT will be just a token used to buy access onto an exchange.  There's money to be made in exchange fees.  There's LOTS more money to be made being an asset.  If we relegate ourselves to being an exchange fee token instead of a cryptocurrency asset, we are in big trouble.
Damelon
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March 13, 2014, 02:57:43 PM
 #43914

It can, but not if the concensus is "NXT is not a coin, it's an asset exchange blah blah blah"

I already tried and the half-tards keep telling me it's NOT A COIN.

So talk to your so supportive NXT community because they seem to not want it to be a coin.

This will be the downfall of NXT if no one can agree on what it really is.
You can't even mention NXT coin because a million keyboards will go off at the same time to correct you saying it is not a coin.

The problem here is a confusion of definition.

We have a complete system, and within that system a coin (token) exists.

BUT, the coin was launched first, and lots of people *know* coins, because the first example and comparison was always Bitcoin.

Now we are trying to explain that it is bigger, without having a very clear view of how the complete system will work and interact.

This is what I see when I see the discussion on NodeCoin: actually, we don't really know what will happen.
We can speculate, some more founded than others, but basically just don't know.

The fact that is ís an ecosystem means that every part influences the whole. That makes it extremely difficult, because everything we add now has repercussions all over the board.

I think this is what a) scares people who want to see their investment pay off (and why not!) and b) pisses off people who just want to do their projects but keep getting flack

Smiley

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LemonAndFries
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March 13, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
 #43915

They care about NXT as a coin/currency, not another stock market type system.

And besides the value of NXT as currency, they wouldn't see the advantages in buying, selling and trading assets while you have them in your pocket, not having to send them to more or less trusted third parties? Without being charged extra fees? Having the option to create your own assets for trading? Isn't all of that an added value?

Why do all that when you have real estate brokers for that and other ways of doing it?

I am doing broker for a few people, some of them even professors, and they don't even want to deal with all of this.

They said "I don't want to deal with it, here's some money for you to deal with it for me"

It won't matter if people are still wiling to pay someone else to be a broker for them.

The average Joe doesn't care about the asset exchange.

You'd be surprised at how many average Joes actually care about bitcoin, but as a currency.  That is what is attracting them to it.
Average Joe does not care about Bitcoin either.

NXT has the potential to make care, because NXT can be more user friendly than Bitcoin is.
It can be faster and safer etc.
Sebastien256
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March 13, 2014, 03:00:53 PM
Last edit: March 13, 2014, 03:33:07 PM by Sebastien256
 #43916

But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system.

+1. Totally agree and I can tell why it is true.

The value of nodecoins solely come from the running the Nxt nodes (protecting the network) which actually has been run with Nxtcoins, for instance, running nodes have a change to win Nxtcoins as the rewards. Now on top of that the Nxtcoin rewards, nodecoins become the second rewards for that. It is a pure redundant thing to do so. If you want reward more for running Nxt nodes you can simple reward them more Nxtcoins as the transaction fees (in the future, with more business built on Nxt and more transactions running on the Nxt, the nodes/forgings will get much more reward fees event with the reduction of the transaction fee). Nxtcoins' value is from their protecting the Nxt network. The nodecoins' value is also from their protecting the Nxt network. To let nodecoins do so, you actually put nodecoins and Nxtcoins in the same position. The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have.  Nodecoins will easily dilute Nxtcoins. We already have Nxtcoins to be used to protect the network and transactions and they are scarce. we don't need another coin to do the same work. We can create some other coins for creative business built on top of Nxt.

 "The owners of the nodecoins will demand the same treatment/status which the Nxtcoins owners have" . However, it is the Nxtcoins owners that set the price of nodecoin, not the inverse (because of NXT fee only). So I don't understand how nodecoin can dilute the value of NXT. Precise your thought please.

EDIT: IF the nodecoins' value is also ONLY come from their protecting the Nxt network. My believe is that eventually, nodecoin value will simply go to zero when a lot of Nxt node will be in place.

EDIT2:
If I remember well, I think James make nodecoin to make peer validation of the multigateway transaction. So nodecoin will have more value than just protecting Nxt network.  Nodecoin protecting nxt network is just a plus I think.  

can you reconfirm this James?

Nxt official forum at: https://nxtforum.org/
bitcoinpaul
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March 13, 2014, 03:04:00 PM
 #43917

Bitcoin is a protocol, BTC is a coin. Nxt is a protocol, NXT is a coin.

I give a fuck about average beer drinking joe right now. It is still crypto currency stuff. We don't have to please everyone right now. I'm happy to please average computer joe in the coming months.

Would it be easier to call Nxt Nxt and NXT Nxtcoin? Maybe...
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March 13, 2014, 03:04:27 PM
 #43918

Recap:
1. What is Nxt? An ecosystem, encompassing all the features already described, to which the "Nxt" token grants access.
2. Will it be used by mainstream users? As a coin: no way. But then again, the same goes for all cryptos that call themselves openly cryptos. As an underlying infrastructure: hell yeah! It has more than enough potential for that.
3. Is this different from what we were told? I don't think so, but in my previous post I have already established that the same facts may lead to wildly divergent conclusions.
4. Am I blind to the tough times we are having and the lack of direction: nope. I just don't think it's an honest assesment of the four months of work and effort we have put in. Being "headless", this is nót unexpected at all.

Agree, I think this is the likely future for Nxt.

I more like Salsacz description - Nxt will the p2p decentralized internet network. There could be hundreds and thoughts of networks like Nxt tunning in the world.
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March 13, 2014, 03:07:05 PM
 #43919

Nxt is a bubble I think

No, it's a snowball.


 Grin Grin
LemonAndFries
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March 13, 2014, 03:07:42 PM
 #43920


BCNext intended it not to be a coin to be used as currency (I think it is in the first or second part of his essay, rather than in his post history).

But you can't control how people will use it. So, sell it to them as a coin if you want, no one can stop you.

But the chances are, a better coin will be built of top of Nxt (to suit your needed use or world view of the creator). I doubt the value of the Nxts will be derived by its use as a currency in the future, more from how important it is in supporting more useful services.

I have a lot of respect for BCNext getting the ball rolling but HE HAS BAILED OUT OF THIS AIRPLANE THROUGH THE COCKPIT WINDOW.  What his intentions were about not using NXT as a coin are now IRRELEVANT.  And if we build a new coin into the NXT blockchain to be our primary unit of value as a coin (nodecoin?) then I truly believe we are going to kill NXT.  NXT will be just a token used to buy access onto an exchange.  There's money to be made in exchange fees.  There's LOTS more money to be made being an asset.  If we relegate ourselves to being an exchange fee token instead of a cryptocurrency asset, we are in big trouble.

I completely agree, the community needs to land their plane already and get back to reality.

We are talking about a huge market that can be over taken by NXT, but only if it's done the right way.

I have personally bought shares of some exchanges (alcurex being one of them) and I know what I got myself into, I bought shares of a company.
I don't have to explain this to average joe, because he understands I bought shares of an exchange.

When average joe thinks of NXT and seeing it on the coinmarketcap chart he automatically think "COOL! Another coin like Bitcoin that I can buy!"
He is not thinking "Shares of an exchange or tokens"

The fact that the main guy has bailed out and CfB is about to leave also, makes me doubt the whole project.
I don't even think it was supposed to be this big, for all we know this actually might have started as a get rich quick scam by BCNext.
If it is, then the guy is a genius at convincing a lot of people to work for him for free.  I just don't think he thought it was going to be this big, so he bailed out before things got serious for him.

I will be busy for the rest of the day, so call me what you will but I have tried to bring awareness to a huge problem the community needs to agree on to fix or forever hold your peace.
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