Should Bitcoin merchants help to keep our identity private?

[Kprawn]

I have watched some videos on Youtube today and they were speaking about Crypto currencies and ways to track Crypto

currency users, through services that they use. Is this the weak link in the privacy chain? Should we ask Crypto currency

merchants to "change" their receiving addresses more frequently to make it more difficult to pin a specific address to a

specific service? If these people want to track all our financial transactions, then we should give them some challenges in

doing this.  

Obviously not all services will adhere to this call/request, but some of these merchants still support the bigger cause and the

reason why most of us use Crypto currencies.   {Some degree of financial privacy} 

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[OmegaStarScream]

It's not the service itself that you should be afraid of, It's the payment processor (BitPay in this case) which is pretty much used everywhere now. You could read this about the privacy and security concerns: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/wallet-developers-express-security-concerns-over-bitpays-payment-protocol-policy/

[ahmadakbari]

I think changing the receiving address should be done frequently. That is what all the users need for their privacy and that's why bitcoin developers and other coins developers have made creating new addresses that easy.

[QuestionAuthority]

It's not the service itself that you should be afraid of, It's the payment processor (BitPay in this case) which is pretty much used everywhere now. You could read this about the privacy and security concerns: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/wallet-developers-express-security-concerns-over-bitpays-payment-protocol-policy/

That’s right, it’s not the merchants. The weak link always has been and will continue to be exchanges.

If you’re the customer of a brothel where you routinely cheat on your wife and you pay the same receiving address in btc every time and the only thing they sell is sex then you’re in trouble. It’s going to be easy for your wife to look at your joint wallet and see you’ve been paying a brothel. You have two choices, stop cheating on your wife or start paying in cash.

However, if you are buying online at a marketplace that sells drugs, guns, knitting supplies and ceramic collectible figurines then their could be some doubt about what you purchased because all of those things are paid for into the same address.   

OTOH, If you’re dealing with an exchange to buy btc or sell btc then you have to assume every government agent in the world was given all of that transaction info. Transacting at any exchange in the world eliminates, as you say, “any degree of financial privacy”.

[Kakmakr]

Merchants that do not use Payment processors, should regularly change their Bitcoin address for the following reason :

Let's say you are selling expensive items online and you are using a single Bitcoin address for the payment of these items by customers, then anyone can drop that Bitcoin address into a block explorer and determine what your sales have been and when you received the most money. < All sales figures are public and you can be targeted, when you have the most BTC on you >

If they were able to pinpoint your physical location, they could pay you a visit and rob you or abduct a child for ransom and then ask for the exact amount of money/BTC in that address.

It is just safe practice to change the receiving address or to use Payment processors if you have to as a last resort. 

[pekavcilar01]

Your identity must be kept private. This is important for you.
There are so many hackers in the market. They are trading on the name. Sites with popular people are a more attractive place for hackers.
Privacy is everyone's right.

[Xester]

I have watched some videos on Youtube today and they were speaking about Crypto currencies and ways to track Crypto

currency users, through services that they use. Is this the weak link in the privacy chain? Should we ask Crypto currency

merchants to "change" their receiving addresses more frequently to make it more difficult to pin a specific address to a

specific service? If these people want to track all our financial transactions, then we should give them some challenges in

doing this.  

Obviously not all services will adhere to this call/request, but some of these merchants still support the bigger cause and the

reason why most of us use Crypto currencies.   {Some degree of financial privacy} 

If you have joined an exchange which requires you to submit valid ID's and legal documents before they can approve your account then your records will be kept by the exchanges in conformity with the AML and KYC regulations. Of course it is not the merchants who will expose you identity but the exchanges and the central banks. The submitted documents will also be sent to the central bank and thus if your income or profit in btc is questionable the exchange will be ordered by the AML commissions to conduct an investigation.

[Tankdestroyer]

OTOH, If you’re dealing with an exchange to buy btc or sell btc then you have to assume every government agent in the world was given all of that transaction info. Transacting at any exchange in the world eliminates, as you say, “any degree of financial privacy”.

Every transaction is transparent in the blockchain in the first place and in order to keep your anonymity in using bitcoin, then all you need to do is to not disclose your identity to anyone and to not announce that a particular wallet is yours. Have a wallet that only YOU knows that you own it. When sending btc to it, transactions must stem from exchanges in order to maximize anonymity using that particular address.

[Harlot]

We are split on this one. One group still wants to have anonymity in their transactions while the other group knows that if we want Bitcoin to be accepted more we want to sacrifice that feature of these cryptocurrecies. Crytocurrency as a payment method needs to be tracked and the users be identified in order for it to be allowable in a larger scale of acceptance. I don't even know why some consumers still wants to be anonymous on something, as if they are buying on illegal drugs with it.

[anggriani]

a bitcoin merchant must maintain and ensure the privacy of its users. I think this could be a problem if a merchan does not guarantee its user data, because if anybody intends to malicious then our data can be misused for criminal acts. this is what I fear and I'm sure the merchant will not help, unless the tracking request comes from the authorities.

[eternalgloom]

We are split on this one. One group still wants to have anonymity in their transactions while the other group knows that if we want Bitcoin to be accepted more we want to sacrifice that feature of these cryptocurrecies. Crytocurrency as a payment method needs to be tracked and the users be identified in order for it to be allowable in a larger scale of acceptance. I don't even know why some consumers still wants to be anonymous on something, as if they are buying on illegal drugs with it.

Even if you are not using Bitcoin for illegal activities, you still have very good reason to want to remain anonymous.
KYC for small transactions is just ridiculous in my opinion, you're handing over copies of personal documents to a potentially insecure website.

The government also doesn't have to know what I purchase on the internet, nor does anyone else for that matter.
If I decide to donate some Bitcoins to Wikileaks or whatever other organization, I don't really want my government to know that.

I really don't understand the argument 'If you have nothing to hide, why care about privacy'. There are plenty of reasons why you want to have a certain amount of privacy.  

[franky1]

I have watched some videos on Youtube today and they were speaking about Crypto currencies and ways to track Crypto
currency users, through services that they use. Is this the weak link in the privacy chain? Should we ask Crypto currency
merchants to "change" their receiving addresses more frequently to make it more difficult to pin a specific address to a
specific service?

for merchant tools like bitpay. they use unique addresses per payment already.

If you’re the customer of a brothel where you routinely cheat on your wife and you pay the same receiving address in btc every time and the only thing they sell is sex then you’re in trouble.

EG. if the stripper has a QR code tattoo'd to her butt.. your wife can easily find out the exact stripper which ruined the marriage just by QR scanning the ass of all strippers while they are pole dancing until th right address grinds up.

solution:.. pimps, do not let your sex workers get a permenent tattoo of an address they are stuck with for the rest of their lives

It's not the service itself that you should be afraid of, It's the payment processor (BitPay in this case) which is pretty much used everywhere now. You could read this about the privacy and security concerns: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/wallet-developers-express-security-concerns-over-bitpays-payment-protocol-policy/

the whole bip 70 is not a security flaw

what it is, is when you are at a merchant shopping cart YOU (not the network).. YOU are displayed a QR code. which is not just a bitcoin address but  a bitcoin address with a lil extra.

(its the bitcoin URI feature)
EG
bitcoin:1R4ndQm9ir2761987q7k3VcALC8YQ?request=https://walmartstore.com/r/aBcdE&order=123&memo=bakedbeans&value=0.0001

YOU and only YOU see this. its not something published onto the blockchain.
your wallet can then auto fill in not only address to send, but how much and what your buying.

your wallet can then send the signed TX through the normal network(not extra URI info).. and/or
send the signed tx+URI data as a pushtx api call to the store direct so that you can memo them 'deliver by 4pm'

again this is for you and your wallet to know what its for, not something that gets identifying info locked into the blockchain

[mriansa]

yes it should be like that, should the place of exchange should maintain a very sensitive identity because if your data has been leaked it will be dangerous and do not let your data in trading because it is very dangerous.

[franky1]

I really don't understand the argument 'If you have nothing to hide, why care about privacy'. There are plenty of reasons why you want to have a certain amount of privacy.  

my reply is always
OK mr government spokesman. im installing CCTV camera in your wifes bathroom. as long as she isnt doing anything illegal you have no reason to object??

(excuse my stripper/women in shower examples, its not my normal content of comedy, but it seems to many bitcoiners that this comedy category sparks their imagination to understand the underlying more serious points)

[Pan Troglodytes]

We are split on this one. One group still wants to have anonymity in their transactions while the other group knows that if we want Bitcoin to be accepted more we want to sacrifice that feature of these cryptocurrecies. Crytocurrency as a payment method needs to be tracked and the users be identified in order for it to be allowable in a larger scale of acceptance. I don't even know why some consumers still wants to be anonymous on something, as if they are buying on illegal drugs with it.

It is not a question of something being legal or not. It goes along the lines of valuing one's privacy.

For instance, whenever I have this option I don't pay with a debit card, but rather I pay in cash. Similarly, I don't post my pictures (nor of my family) on Facebook.  But note please, that both paying with a Visa card and posting pictures on Facebook are legal activities.

Similarly, I would prefer to be anonymous while paying with Bitcoin. Of course, you have to provide the shipping address to the merchant, but it shouldn't involve leaking more info than necessary, and certainly not allow any third party to link your many purchases together and to your person in particular.

[jseverson]

Why wouldn't they? Think of it this way: traditional merchants and their payment processors promise you that they'll keep your data private. Why should crypto merchants be any different? I know I won't buy anything from any merchant that won't (or uses a payment processor that won't) take steps to ensure my privacy.

It has nothing to do with merchants buying into anonymous ideology or any of that. This should be standard of any business-customer relationship.

[Hackarit]

I have watched some videos on Youtube today and they were speaking about Crypto currencies and ways to track Crypto

currency users, through services that they use. Is this the weak link in the privacy chain? Should we ask Crypto currency

merchants to "change" their receiving addresses more frequently to make it more difficult to pin a specific address to a

specific service? If these people want to track all our financial transactions, then we should give them some challenges in

doing this.  

Obviously not all services will adhere to this call/request, but some of these merchants still support the bigger cause and the

reason why most of us use Crypto currencies.   {Some degree of financial privacy} 

depending on our own beliefs, and it makes no sense to trust our identity to other people. Every purchase of btc sales you need to tell is important and not all transactions should be transparent to custumer, we can not trust in others we do not know how far the person's experience of bitcoin

[Thirdspace]

Why wouldn't they? Think of it this way: traditional merchants and their payment processors promise you that they'll keep your data private. Why should crypto merchants be any different? I know I won't buy anything from any merchant that won't (or uses a payment processor that won't) take steps to ensure my privacy.

It has nothing to do with merchants buying into anonymous ideology or any of that. This should be standard of any business-customer relationship.

when you're dealing with traditional merchants and payment processors, they do that to protect their customers
protection from misuse of fund of their customers by allowing chargeback, if the transaction was found fraudulent
so they keep data private until disclosure is needed for investigation of unauthorized payment

but if you use crypto, there is no reversal chargeback, payment in crypto is final
hence merchants don't need to keep data about the customer, as the payment processors won't return payment in any case
so maintaining customer privacy benefits both merchant and customer on different aspects of each their own

[QuestionAuthority]

OTOH, If you’re dealing with an exchange to buy btc or sell btc then you have to assume every government agent in the world was given all of that transaction info. Transacting at any exchange in the world eliminates, as you say, “any degree of financial privacy”.

Every transaction is transparent in the blockchain in the first place and in order to keep your anonymity in using bitcoin, then all you need to do is to not disclose your identity to anyone and to not announce that a particular wallet is yours. Have a wallet that only YOU knows that you own it. When sending btc to it, transactions must stem from exchanges in order to maximize anonymity using that particular address.

That’s not the problem with exchanges bro. Every exchange requires you to comply with AML/KYC laws. It has nothing to do with your wallet or changing addresses.

[elygil2022]

Safeguarding the privacy of the identity of clients is a given responsibility of merchants. I don’t think companies would risk their reputation by compromising their customer database. It would be bad for business.