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Author Topic: Would you put all your savings money into BTC?  (Read 5497 times)
notme
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November 28, 2013, 06:15:48 AM
 #41

This is insane. I wouldn't recommend putting any money into Bitcoin that could be needed within the next 12 month. The price is rising, yes. But it could also drop to zero, so you have to be able to write the money off the moment you invest.

Even if you have just some small money, I would recommend to keep at least 30-50% in fiat at your bank. What happens if your car brakes need to be renewed? If your oven fails or your refrigerator? Ah, the damn yearly car insurance is due all out of a sudden. And there, damn, I completely forgot about my legal protection insurance, has it always been charged in March? There can always arise more or less "unforseen" problems where you need to access your savings.

With this background you will definetly panic if the exchange value drops below a certain level, and you will panic-sell at a way too low point - giving you a nice loss in BTC and even in FIAT if the timing is bad.

Keep a buffer in FIAT in case something happens, keep some FIAT as savings for the things you will need in the next timespan. Better cut some of your unnecessary expenses and take this money to gamble with BTC. And always keep in mind that BTC is still a virtual toything without guarantee to success.

I agree that people should be prepared for unplanned expenses, but your examples are terrible.  They mostly involve forgetting something that happens on a regular basis.  Besides, even if I forget about my brakes until they chew through the rotor, I can get new rotors and pads for both sides for less than $100.  If i'm reasonable and replace my brakes when they should be replaces, the pads alone are like $20.

But for the real emergencies, you either need some fiat or to just have so many BTC that it dropping to $100 still leaves you with enough for any reasonable contingency. Wink

well, renewal of my brakes was around 450€ (and you renew all 4 of them). and yes, annual payments are usually underestimated. you sometimes just now roughly the time - something around spring. and then one morning you look at your bank account and see your insurence just took 600€ for your car and 500€ for legal protection - leaving you in the red for the rest of the month.

don't know about your "real emergencies". if your car is completely gone you will need a new one, yes. but it may be ok to get a loan in this case to buy it. and if your house burns down you're pretty pissed anyway, no way to prevent drastic losses here.

If you pay someone to do your brakes you are an idiot or you make a shitload of money and can afford to throw some away.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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November 28, 2013, 06:17:11 AM
 #42

BTC is on the rise, sure. But surely you need to have fiat to pay for your everyday needs right?

Like you need fiat for hospitals, fiat for insurance, fiat for rent, fiat for utilities.....
If you are a teenager who doesn't pay for any of the above, then yes, all in for BTC!
If not, why would you put all your savings money into BTC?

Because you don't pay everyday expenses with savings.  You pay them with income unless you are super wealthy and retired.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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November 28, 2013, 06:21:40 AM
 #43

This is insane. I wouldn't recommend putting any money into Bitcoin that could be needed within the next 12 month. The price is rising, yes. But it could also drop to zero, so you have to be able to write the money off the moment you invest.

Even if you have just some small money, I would recommend to keep at least 30-50% in fiat at your bank. What happens if your car brakes need to be renewed? If your oven fails or your refrigerator? Ah, the damn yearly car insurance is due all out of a sudden. And there, damn, I completely forgot about my legal protection insurance, has it always been charged in March? There can always arise more or less "unforseen" problems where you need to access your savings.

With this background you will definetly panic if the exchange value drops below a certain level, and you will panic-sell at a way too low point - giving you a nice loss in BTC and even in FIAT if the timing is bad.

Keep a buffer in FIAT in case something happens, keep some FIAT as savings for the things you will need in the next timespan. Better cut some of your unnecessary expenses and take this money to gamble with BTC. And always keep in mind that BTC is still a virtual toything without guarantee to success.

I agree that people should be prepared for unplanned expenses, but your examples are terrible.  They mostly involve forgetting something that happens on a regular basis.  Besides, even if I forget about my brakes until they chew through the rotor, I can get new rotors and pads for both sides for less than $100.  If i'm reasonable and replace my brakes when they should be replaces, the pads alone are like $20.

But for the real emergencies, you either need some fiat or to just have so many BTC that it dropping to $100 still leaves you with enough for any reasonable contingency. Wink

well, renewal of my brakes was around 450€ (and you renew all 4 of them). and yes, annual payments are usually underestimated. you sometimes just now roughly the time - something around spring. and then one morning you look at your bank account and see your insurence just took 600€ for your car and 500€ for legal protection - leaving you in the red for the rest of the month.

don't know about your "real emergencies". if your car is completely gone you will need a new one, yes. but it may be ok to get a loan in this case to buy it. and if your house burns down you're pretty pissed anyway, no way to prevent drastic losses here.

If you pay someone to do your brakes you are an idiot or you make a shitload of money and can afford to throw some away.

Since I am not a qualified car mecanich and lack the suppliers of approved car parts, the proper tools like lifting platform etc., lacking the knowledge about car repairing and most importantly: working full time so i don't have the time to spend the next few days repairing my car.... yes, I have to pay an approved car repair shop as 90% of the population have to.
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November 28, 2013, 06:27:14 AM
 #44

putting all of your money into btc is just reckless.. you're gonna have a lot of people willing to commit suicide when/if they lose all their money. do you really want the fate of your life to be at the whim of a volatile currency? my goal is not to become rich, own a bunch of jet skis and go broke 50.. i just want to live my life and do the things i want without having to worry about income.
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November 28, 2013, 06:27:24 AM
 #45

The thread is about putting all your savings in BTC. You are using your savings to buy a house not to repair the refrigator  Tongue
notme
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November 28, 2013, 06:30:53 AM
 #46

This is insane. I wouldn't recommend putting any money into Bitcoin that could be needed within the next 12 month. The price is rising, yes. But it could also drop to zero, so you have to be able to write the money off the moment you invest.

Even if you have just some small money, I would recommend to keep at least 30-50% in fiat at your bank. What happens if your car brakes need to be renewed? If your oven fails or your refrigerator? Ah, the damn yearly car insurance is due all out of a sudden. And there, damn, I completely forgot about my legal protection insurance, has it always been charged in March? There can always arise more or less "unforseen" problems where you need to access your savings.

With this background you will definetly panic if the exchange value drops below a certain level, and you will panic-sell at a way too low point - giving you a nice loss in BTC and even in FIAT if the timing is bad.

Keep a buffer in FIAT in case something happens, keep some FIAT as savings for the things you will need in the next timespan. Better cut some of your unnecessary expenses and take this money to gamble with BTC. And always keep in mind that BTC is still a virtual toything without guarantee to success.

I agree that people should be prepared for unplanned expenses, but your examples are terrible.  They mostly involve forgetting something that happens on a regular basis.  Besides, even if I forget about my brakes until they chew through the rotor, I can get new rotors and pads for both sides for less than $100.  If i'm reasonable and replace my brakes when they should be replaces, the pads alone are like $20.

But for the real emergencies, you either need some fiat or to just have so many BTC that it dropping to $100 still leaves you with enough for any reasonable contingency. Wink

well, renewal of my brakes was around 450€ (and you renew all 4 of them). and yes, annual payments are usually underestimated. you sometimes just now roughly the time - something around spring. and then one morning you look at your bank account and see your insurence just took 600€ for your car and 500€ for legal protection - leaving you in the red for the rest of the month.

don't know about your "real emergencies". if your car is completely gone you will need a new one, yes. but it may be ok to get a loan in this case to buy it. and if your house burns down you're pretty pissed anyway, no way to prevent drastic losses here.

If you pay someone to do your brakes you are an idiot or you make a shitload of money and can afford to throw some away.

Since I am not a qualified car mecanich and lack the suppliers of approved car parts, the proper tools like lifting platform etc., lacking the knowledge about car repairing and most importantly: working full time so i don't have the time to spend the next few days repairing my car.... yes, I have to pay an approved car repair shop as 90% of the population have to.

Roll Eyes. Fucking brakes, how do they work?

I can do all four corners in under an hour.  I have no formal training, but that shit is dead simple if you understand basic physics.  There are 5 auto parts stores within 10 minutes of my house.

At least in my area, when it comes to brakes, your 90% figure is about 60% too high, but we are hillfolk, so we are a bit more used to self sufficiency than most flatlanders.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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November 28, 2013, 06:33:17 AM
 #47

The thread is about putting all your savings in BTC. You are using your savings to buy a house not to repair the refrigator  Tongue

if you have savings in the 150000 range, your bank consultant should be able to give you some qualified information about what percentage to use for high-risk investments. I am talking about the average joe with a salary around 2000 after taxes and maybe up to 5000 savings.


@notme: good for you. since i have not underwent the 3 years learning to become a car mechanic and the further years to become approved master i wouln't touch anything safety related at my car (I guess i would have to show it and get the repairs accepted by an approved mechanic, otherwise all insurances would reject any related damage caused), but i admit it would be beneficial to cut the prices
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November 28, 2013, 06:39:09 AM
 #48

The thread is about putting all your savings in BTC. You are using your savings to buy a house not to repair the refrigator  Tongue

if you have savings in the 150000 range, your bank consultant should be able to give you some qualified information about what percentage to use for high-risk investments. I am talking about the average joe with a salary around 2000 after taxes and maybe up to 5000 savings.


@notme: good for you. since i have not underwent the 3 years learning to become a car mechanic and the further years to become approved master i wouln't touch anything safety related at my car (I guess i would have to show it and get the repairs accepted by an approved mechanic, otherwise all insurances would reject any related damage caused), but i admit it would be beneficial to cut the prices

It must suck relying on strangers to look out for your safety.  I know I will take it seriously, but will some grease monkey at Jiffy Lube?

I've had professionally trained mechanics make mistakes on my vehicle that could have killed me.  Luckily, the wheel fell off the car in a parking lot and not at 70mph.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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November 28, 2013, 06:40:31 AM
 #49

450 english pounds is like $800~?  

There are online auto parts retailers that supply proper replacements for significantly less than the cost of brick-and-mortor establishments.  The parts you order online, if you do the research into the parts, will be the OE supplier when the brick-and-mortor shops have generic low-quality items that they put into their own brand of box.

I have a 1990 SAAB 900.  A full set of of Genuine SAAB brake rotors would cost $156, full set of Genuine SAAB brake pads $90.  With a floor jack, a basic socket set, would only take me a couple hours to complete it at a comfortable pace.   There's no mechanical knowledge or training needed for basic maintenance on vehicles.

Auto repair shops significantly overcharge customers for parts.   Looking at service records of one of my other SAABs, a repair shop replaced a bad fuel pump with a new one, they charged the previous owner $500+; buying a brand new fuel pump made by the original supplier (BOSCH), costs $70.  And even after this massive overcharge by the shop, they even charged several hours of labor, when it would take at most 30 minutes to replace.  

Most generic auto repair shops you would take your vehicle to get serviced at will probably be by untrained minimum Wage employees.  

I trust that a repair job is done correctly when I do it myself, I save money on labor and parts costs, and I learn from the experiences.

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November 28, 2013, 06:42:16 AM
 #50

Guess what I did? I used some of my BTC, turned it into LTC, waited a couple of days, and doubled my bitcoins.

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November 28, 2013, 06:58:26 AM
 #51

anyway, different countries, different habits (and different legal stuff, like gettin your car completely checked by the state every two years, ordering to repair everything and show proof of professional repair).

baseline is: Don't invest all your money into BTC, keep enough fiat to pay whatever can happen in your country. Since in some minor developed ones you even have to pay for medical treatment, apply this also as possible costs that you should be able to pay at anytime without dabbing into your btc.

If you have money that you definetily won't need within the next 5 years, take it and invest it in stocks etc, and take 10% of this money and invest in in BTC.
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December 02, 2013, 09:00:59 AM
 #52

BTC is on the rise, sure. But surely you need to have fiat to pay for your everyday needs right?

Like you need fiat for hospitals, fiat for insurance, fiat for rent, fiat for utilities.....
If you are a teenager who doesn't pay for any of the above, then yes, all in for BTC!
If not, why would you put all your savings money into BTC?

Because you don't pay everyday expenses with savings.  You pay them with income unless you are super wealthy and retired.

My view is that you spend your savings on everyday expenses while you work, then you get paid to replenish the savings
I do see BTC has potential, but it fluctuations too much, great as a part of a portfolio, but not practical as a store of value



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December 02, 2013, 10:44:33 AM
 #53

The problem is paper money feels soo worthless these days, so even if you end up making lets say $30,000 - $50,000 out of your Bitcoin investments it is still not enough!! What will that get you? a brand new car and pay the rent for 1 year, then what. This is why a lot of people feel impulsive about putting more and more fiat into crypto, i won't be surprised if many put their whole savings because of how worthless Fiat has become you just can't get much with it even in large numbers.

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December 02, 2013, 10:57:49 AM
 #54

No, because the jury could still swing it eaither way

As I think cryptos are there to stay, I am looking for 25-75 mix right now

May look to increase my btc exposure as adoption spreads

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December 02, 2013, 11:33:57 AM
 #55

I currently work on a military base in Afghanistan. My food and housing is provided and I have no expenses other than a $99 storage fee back home.

For most of the year I have been transferring my full paycheck directly to Dwolla which I then moved right to CampBx which I then converted to Bitcoin.

Though when Dwolla stopped working with CampBx I have been stuck with these Federal Reserve Notes accumulating in my bank account. I do not like my fiat just sitting there in a bank losing value. Plus I am vulnerable to the bank freezing my account or doing whatever they want with my money as any third party site is able to do.

I enjoy having my funds safely locked in cold storage where nobody can get to my funds without my consent.

I am currently at around 10:1 BTC:fiat and hope to remedy that with around 500:1 (enough for my storage unit and little stuff) BTC:fiat when I am able to get my funds into Bitcoin.

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December 02, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
 #56

I currently work on a military base in Afghanistan. My food and housing is provided and I have no expenses other than a $99 storage fee back home.

For most of the year I have been transferring my full paycheck directly to Dwolla which I then moved right to CampBx which I then converted to Bitcoin.

Though when Dwolla stopped working with CampBx I have been stuck with these Federal Reserve Notes accumulating in my bank account. I do not like my fiat just sitting there in a bank losing value. Plus I am vulnerable to the bank freezing my account or doing whatever they want with my money as any third party site is able to do.

I enjoy having my funds safely locked in cold storage where nobody can get to my funds without my consent.

I am currently at around 10:1 BTC:fiat and hope to remedy that with around 500:1 (enough for my storage unit and little stuff) BTC:fiat when I am able to get my funds into Bitcoin.

Coinbase is pretty good as long as you don't buy when price is moving 30% in an hour.  There are reports that they have cancelled buys and refunded the dollars in that situation, but I've never had a problem

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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December 02, 2013, 08:57:14 PM
 #57

No i wouldn't put all my savings money into BTC and noone should anyway. Also noone should take a loan to buy btc's. Those things have been discussed over and over...
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December 02, 2013, 09:29:41 PM
 #58

Would you put all your savings money into BTC rather than at the bank?

No.  Just as I would not put all my savings into banks, or any one bank.

Can you say Di-Ver-Si-Fi-Ca-Tion?  I knew you could.

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December 02, 2013, 09:41:28 PM
 #59

Since March, we have put every dollar of our cash savings (not retirement) into bitcoin.  We have no savings other than bitcoin and appreciation on our house. 

If we need money, we can get money from Coinbase just as fast as from our previous savings account.  2-3 days for the bank transfer.  So if we needed to do that, we could.  (But so far we haven't needed to.)

If we lose it all, I still have a good job and credit cards with high limits that could get me by in an emergency.  I could also take out a home equity loan or something or borrow money from my wife's parents.

So there are many backup security plans, but why not put all my money into bitcoin right now?  The more that's in there, the higher the multiplier.  And it's the difference between:

Local state college vs. any private college for my kids
Skimpy wedding budgets for my daughters vs. amazing, unforgettable weddings
Continuing to work vs. retirement
Continued driving vacations vs. flying to different parts of the world that I've always wanted to see
Working for someone else vs. working on whatever I want

So yeah, I'm willing to risk a lot for that kind of lifestyle change.  But really I'm not risking much at all, since I don't think my life would change much if I lost it all.

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December 02, 2013, 10:34:26 PM
 #60

Since March, we have put every dollar of our cash savings (not retirement) into bitcoin. 

For me Bitcoin is my retirement saving. Hopefully it'll continue to do good, I'm ready to retire. I'm pretty sure I'll do better than the pension funds anyhow Wink

I live in America, where we're not allowed to put our retirement accounts into Bitcoin unless we are already rich.

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