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Author Topic: Fuck the crash, lets just keep moving forward  (Read 5192 times)
Gladiator
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August 07, 2011, 01:07:59 AM
 #21

I'd say this is a good idea, but I don't see how it'd stop the lemmings from giving a stranger 1,000 of BTC and then being surprised when they run off.  Can't fix stupid.

Maybe we can fix stupid!

we can lunch a site, which has a list of trusted bitcoin site.
we advertise this site everywhere. and we tell poeple not to trust anyone else then the sites listed

this way any new site would have to be reviewed by the community for security holes and doing a background cheek on the owners.

if poeple knew we had such a system in place, they you have more trust.
After that we can start to take money to place sites there. More money, higher up the list...
And then I can ask my buddy to create really trusted service and disappear with all the money. For fair share of those money.
Huh
PROFIT!

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Mike Moceri
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August 07, 2011, 01:45:30 AM
 #22

Let's start with having 30 days in a row where nothing ridiculous happens

+1

I also like the idea of offering insurance. The problem I see immediately with the insurance idea though is that no one will want to pay for insurance from someone untrusted. We need a sort of Misean regression theorem for trust...
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August 07, 2011, 01:46:25 AM
 #23

something like this?

http://www.bitcoin.site90.net/


"This website is down being checked for malicious content"
what dirty trick are you playing sir?

no trick it is a simple html page i put up on a free web hosting site to show my idea

it will be back once they see there is no malicious content.... there's hardly any content :p i made it just b4 in 10 mins lol

indio007
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August 07, 2011, 02:25:07 AM
 #24

We need transaction insurance.  Like I said before the party that isn't getting the bitcoins is the only side that needs insurance. It is definitely financially doable.
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August 07, 2011, 02:29:17 AM
 #25


we should build a "web of trust"



#bitcoin-otc Web of Trust

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FXRiot
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August 07, 2011, 02:31:24 AM
 #26

The best I can think of is a website with a list of all the Bitcoin organizations and everyone casts a vote on their experience with them.  Easy, simple, effective.

Motion graphics for the Bitcoin community
airdata
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August 07, 2011, 02:32:23 AM
 #27

Restrict mining and any trading to people who have verified their identity and credentials with a central authority.

We all love the idea of decentralized this, anonymous that... and you know what?  we've seen just how flawed the idea of that is.  You have hackers and scammers coming out of the woodwork because of the open, anonymous, accountability free nature of bitcoin.

That is the downfall of bitcoin.  By leaving it wide open, you encourage criminals and little kids to swarm to it and try to steal and cheat any way they can imagine with no repercussions.

OH, you're not 18?  bitcoin isn't for you.  Oh, you can't verify your identity... bitcoin isn't for you.

There you go.
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August 07, 2011, 02:38:45 AM
 #28

What we need is ewallet insurance and real security policies.

true that, the first major ewallet/bitcoin bank that comes out with real auditing from 3rd party security auditors, transparent policies, and insurance on balances will have my business. Add mobile banking and instant transfers to any other member of the bank and they'll be off to the races.
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August 07, 2011, 02:40:55 AM
 #29

Maybe the insurance task force could also be responsible for what checkpoints to retain and when to insert checkpoints?

Miners could vote on it, aware of the guns of their local police forces breathing down their necks, to do things like remove any checkpoints that happened since allinvain lost 25000 coins, create a block in which he sent those coins to the CIA or FBI or a spare wallet of his own for safekeeping, make that block a checkpoint, orphaning everything that happened since, and start putting back into blocks of the new real chain everything that happened since, except, of course, anything that is not valid due to being dependent upon his having lost his coins...

-MarkM- (The Institute of Chronodynamics should look into this, their alternate history/timelines department might love it...)


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August 07, 2011, 02:42:25 AM
 #30

Restrict mining and any trading to people who have verified their identity and credentials with a central authority.

We all love the idea of decentralized this, anonymous that... and you know what?  we've seen just how flawed the idea of that is.  You have hackers and scammers coming out of the woodwork because of the open, anonymous, accountability free nature of bitcoin.

That is the downfall of bitcoin.  By leaving it wide open, you encourage criminals and little kids to swarm to it and try to steal and cheat any way they can imagine with no repercussions.

OH, you're not 18?  bitcoin isn't for you.  Oh, you can't verify your identity... bitcoin isn't for you.

There you go.

It's cash. You can't regulate cash. That's what makes bitcoin useful. I think people should stop trying to treat bitcoin as something that it is not. When you send cash across the web you better be willing to take the loss if the other party doesn't honor their obligation. This should severely restrict who you do business with. As Matonis has commented in several places, bitcoin is likely better suited for hawala purposes. Online merchants must make themselves highly transparent if they wish to attract cash-paying customers.
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August 07, 2011, 02:49:47 AM
 #31

Restrict mining and any trading to people who have verified their identity and credentials with a central authority.

We all love the idea of decentralized this, anonymous that... and you know what?  we've seen just how flawed the idea of that is.  You have hackers and scammers coming out of the woodwork because of the open, anonymous, accountability free nature of bitcoin.

That is the downfall of bitcoin.  By leaving it wide open, you encourage criminals and little kids to swarm to it and try to steal and cheat any way they can imagine with no repercussions.

OH, you're not 18?  bitcoin isn't for you.  Oh, you can't verify your identity... bitcoin isn't for you.

There you go.

It's cash. You can't regulate cash. That's what makes bitcoin useful. I think people should stop trying to treat bitcoin as something that it is not. When you send cash across the web you better be willing to take the loss if the other party doesn't honor their obligation. This should severely restrict who you do business with. As Matonis has commented in several places, bitcoin is likely better suited for hawala purposes. Merchants must make themselves highly transparent if they wish to attract cash-paying customers.
+1

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RogerR
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August 07, 2011, 02:58:19 AM
 #32

What we need is ewallet insurance and real security policies.

true that, the first major ewallet/bitcoin bank that comes out with real auditing from 3rd party security auditors, transparent policies, and insurance on balances will have my business. Add mobile banking and instant transfers to any other member of the bank and they'll be off to the races.

Better yet. Have technological means in place so that a 3rd party audit will not even be necessary any more!! (as e.g. discussed in this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34118)
indio007
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August 07, 2011, 03:15:25 AM
 #33

I'm tellin ya. Let's just set up fractional reserve insurance. Don't give bitcoins to anyone that don't want to use it. 
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August 07, 2011, 04:53:21 AM
 #34

OH, you're not 18?  bitcoin isn't for you.  Oh, you can't verify your identity... bitcoin isn't for you.

We already have that.

Buy Electronic Cigarettes with Bitcoin @ http://bitvapes.com
Big Time Coin
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August 07, 2011, 06:57:41 AM
 #35

One of the main problems with trust is the steep learning curve.  Especially since at least half if not more of the posts in any threads on this issue are Satire, Sarcasm, Insult humor, etc.  People on a point low on the curve don't "get it" and instead just get confused.  Oh, and get their coins stolen by someone with more knowledge higher up the curve.  Then they come on the forum to mock the victims for being stupid to the amusement of their peers.

Furthermore, the bitcoin client does not "just work".  The first thing it does when a noob dl and install is put an unencrypted wallet in a hard to find place that they don't even know about and just leave it like that... 

To respond to OP, here is how to establish trust: 1) go to site, 2) click about us, 3) verify information, 4) google "[sitename] review" 5) search forum for [sitename].  Then give them a shot.  If you are going to do more than $1k business, might want to call them on the phone or send some e-mails to feel them out first.

Also to respond to OP, here is how to be an idiot: 1) go to site, 2) check trustedsites.webring.net for the sitename 3) do business with site because they are on the list without further research.

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BitcoinLocator
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August 07, 2011, 09:38:04 AM
 #36

A yelp for BTC could work.

This is what we're working on now.

But trust is a harder problem.  Yelp doesn't improve the trust of brick and mortar stores, the bricks and the mortar do that.  The problem with web of trust is that you must understand what you're trusting.  With Public Key Infrastructure (pki) the web of trust is only Identity.  That is you can 'trust' that the key used to sign one document is indeed the key associated with a particular public key or the same key used to sign a different document, and to the degree that others have also signed the public key, they assert that the person is who he said he is.  This is not the same as saying that the person wouldn't steal from you.

As ebay has proven online reputation systems are difficult to build.  It's always easy to build up a lot of fake reputation, simply to do one scam after which you don't care if you get a single bad review.  We are working on designing a system that is weighted so that it takes many successful transactions to build reputation, but each bad transaction makes a huge negative impact.  We are optimistic that we have a good solution, but we still have a fair amount of work to do before it's ready for prime time.

Meanwhile use bitcoinlocator to trade in bitcoins face to face where trust and identity are much easier to deal with.


Are you a BitcoinLocation? www.bitcoinlocator.com
noedaRDH
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August 07, 2011, 09:43:18 AM
 #37

Bitcoins can never really "die". It's not a company with stocks or anything like that.

This crash and other negativity may make it unattractive to most people. But who cares?

It will still float around and as long as it is, EVENTUALLY something else that is built upon this 1.0 "beta' will take the mantel.

The cycle of birth and rebirth will repeat itself until a victorious Bitcoin-like decentralized system emerge.

You can stop Bitcoins, but you can't stop time. Every second is one moment closer to the death of Bitcoin's opposing paradigms.

1NwGKiLcAngD1KiCCivxT6EDJmyXMGqM9q

Ask not what Bitcoin can do for you - ask what you can do for Bitcoin.
BitcoinNotify.com
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August 07, 2011, 09:51:27 AM
 #38

Quote
Fuck the crash, lets just keep moving forward

I instantly fell in love with your title!

My take on that is that we should build trust in the Bitcoin itself and - at the same time - promote healthy distrust in services keeping wallets online.
enquirer
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August 07, 2011, 10:03:10 AM
 #39

It's cash. You can't regulate cash. That's what makes bitcoin useful.

But if I pay cash in real world, I expect the seller to hand me goods right away - my left hand gives him cash and my right hand takes goods from him.
If he refuses to hand me the goods, I can beat him up at the spot. Technology of inflicting severe physical damage over the internet does not (yet) exist, therefore cash can't be used online.
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August 07, 2011, 10:29:26 AM
 #40

ok so,

what can we do to restore some confidence in bitcoin??

my idea.

we should build a "web of trust"

a place where everyone can place reviews for all the bitcoin stores and services, in an attempt to weed out the good from the bad

your ideas are welcome



I had, and still have, full confidence in Bitcoin, with this crash and the next 20 to come (can't say anything about the 21st one!).

I think that giving Mathew what he wants and letting him audit Bitcoin services and give his UABB seal of approval would greatly increase confidence in bitcoin businesses. The problem is that every 15 year old is setting up a business today without thinking about what happens if things take the wrong turn (no offence, BitMan, I totally support you and your projects!).

An entity like the UABB is something that comes out of trust that the Bitcoin community gives to the auditing entity, he seems a reliable guy that knows his shit, and he can take care of validating businesses and making sure they're not spoofed or run by someone who cannot afford to make a wrong turn...
And it doesn't need to be run on donations, every business that wants to get the seal of approval from the UABB will have to pay a sum that the UABB will define in advance ($100-$500 seems reasonable) that will cover the cost of the background check.

Bitcoin is safe, the problem is problematic businesses.
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