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Author Topic: Bitmain launches the Z9 Equihash miner  (Read 36950 times)
madmartyk
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May 25, 2018, 02:01:19 PM
 #641

In the current bitmain world, if I was a crypto dev, I would create a currency that would hard fork it's algorithm every 6 months.

That way when someone forgets to update their wallet and sends coins they are gone.

I like it!!  Keeps supply down

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Longsnowsm
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May 25, 2018, 02:10:09 PM
Merited by madmartyk (1)
 #642

In the current bitmain world, if I was a crypto dev, I would create a currency that would hard fork it's algorithm every 6 months.

That way when someone forgets to update their wallet and sends coins they are gone.

I like it!!  Keeps supply down

Clearly a lot of people don't understand the history of what happens with hard forks.  Old chain, new chain, old coin and new coins staying on old coin chains.  Adoption and code issues... Not quite so simple.  There are reasons you don't hard fork even one time let alone every time an ASIC hits the network.   This is way more complicated than the "lets fork" crowd wants to begin to understand.
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May 25, 2018, 02:23:28 PM
 #643

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN
madmartyk
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May 25, 2018, 02:28:22 PM
 #644

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

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May 25, 2018, 02:38:49 PM
Last edit: May 25, 2018, 02:50:47 PM by melpheos
 #645

In the current bitmain world, if I was a crypto dev, I would create a currency that would hard fork it's algorithm every 6 months.

That way when someone forgets to update their wallet and sends coins they are gone.

I like it!!  Keeps supply down
Wallets are not linked to the algorithm nor the blockchain. Those are separate thing (otherwise why do you think verge can be mined on 3 or 4 different algorithm)
The only risk is that you will mine for nothing (but this will usualy result in the miner refusing to mine so you will not use power)
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May 25, 2018, 02:46:18 PM
 #646

Verge is a great example of a coin that didn't fork away from ASIC's, but left the algo's that ASIC's use in place and increased the diff on those algo's vs those that are used for cpu and gpu mining.  That is the kind of thinking that makes sense.  Not the let's fork away from ASIC's.  Just remove the advantages to level the playing field.  Not as easy as it sounds, but it is a far better thought process than the current... "Let's fork" mentality.
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May 25, 2018, 02:50:12 PM
 #647

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

Sure, you test them for a full year and prints thousands of page just to make sure and then send them to your customer as brand new.
Bitmain & Co has been mining monero for a bare minimum of 5 months (check the difficulty, why do you think it dropped to end december level when monero forked Huh)
That alone is THE PROOF that bitmain use it's device not for "test" but for profit and sends your old device (at least part of their batch)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2244677.0

And I would put Baikal or Halong in the same basket as bitmain.
ltcsprite
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May 25, 2018, 02:59:04 PM
 #648

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

Sure, you test them for a full year and prints thousands of page just to make sure and then send them to your customer as brand new.
Bitmain & Co has been mining monero for a bare minimum of 5 months (check the difficulty, why do you think it dropped to end december level when monero forked Huh)
That alone is THE PROOF that bitmain use it's device not for "test" but for profit and sends your old device (at least part of their batch)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2244677.0

And I would put Baikal or Halong in the same basket as bitmain.

That would be called circumstantial evidence in a court of law.    That is not "THE PROOF".
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May 25, 2018, 03:00:24 PM
 #649

So let's get this straight.  The creator of the ASIC is not allowed to use the ASIC for themselves.  They are only allowed to sell it to the public?   Roll Eyes

We are lucky they sell to the public...
hawkfish007
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May 25, 2018, 03:09:48 PM
 #650

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

Sure, you test them for a full year and prints thousands of page just to make sure and then send them to your customer as brand new.
Bitmain & Co has been mining monero for a bare minimum of 5 months (check the difficulty, why do you think it dropped to end december level when monero forked Huh)
That alone is THE PROOF that bitmain use it's device not for "test" but for profit and sends your old device (at least part of their batch)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2244677.0

And I would put Baikal or Halong in the same basket as bitmain.

It's hard to believe or substantiate the claim, notice not a single picture was posted to validate the claim that someone had received used miner. I bought every single Bitmain miner except for E3 so far, and not a single one I received was used or had any spec of dust on it. Only time I received an used miner was a RMA D3, I received and used 17 TH replacement back for a 19.3 TH D3. This rumor started when Bitmain sold used S5 at a much discounted price, but Bitmain announced that beforehand. Most new miners aren't even tested before shipping, I found that out from fans not being installed correctly or fans were brushing against the miner when I received them.

For quality risers, splitters or 133 CFM fans, please visit my eBay listings,
http://www.ebay.com/sch/hawkfish007/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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May 25, 2018, 03:32:36 PM
 #651

Bitmain HAS in fact sold used miners in the past - usually in "close-out" shortly before they introduce a new model, and in the case of the S5 they were sold specifically AS "used" (though the ones I bought were in "like new" condition when I got them).
I think they did the same thing with the S7 about a month before the S9 was announced.


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heavyarms1912
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May 25, 2018, 03:38:05 PM
 #652

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

Testing in progress
https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/

Don't you think they can do the same with newly developed ASICs?  Why wouldn't they?  Why wouldn't anyone?
madmartyk
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May 25, 2018, 03:43:09 PM
 #653

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

Testing in progress
https://qz.com/1055126/photos-china-has-one-of-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/

No where in the article does it say that these machines are for sale, it's also from 2015.  I have seen on BitMains site in the past they they have has sales of used machine.

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May 25, 2018, 03:55:15 PM
 #654

Could run 20 of these safely on a 30 amp 240 volt circuit.

More like 18 or 17
20 would use 25 amps.

Given the PSUs are not 100% efficient you could do 22-23. However following the 80% rule you can do about 18, maybe 17.
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May 25, 2018, 04:21:01 PM
 #655

I have bought new miners from both Bitmain and Baikal that showed up with deposits on the fans that don't come from running them for a few hours from testing.  So I know of at least a few units that I had shipped to me that were used extensively before they sold or shipped them to me. 
madmartyk
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May 25, 2018, 04:24:10 PM
 #656

I have bought new miners from both Bitmain and Baikal that showed up with deposits on the fans that don't come from running them for a few hours from testing.  So I know of at least a few units that I had shipped to me that were used extensively before they sold or shipped them to me. 

Mine have always been clean.

madmartyk
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May 25, 2018, 04:25:20 PM
 #657

I wonder how long they run them for testing.  Maybe a week, day, a few hours?

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May 25, 2018, 04:41:01 PM
 #658

I'm not defending Bitmain, but ASICs in general.  They are here to stay, Every ASIC I bought  (I go back to the gridseed days) has done what is was advertised to do.  If there was no advancement we would all still be driving Model T's.

Deal with it.

Understandable...

It's just what you and I consider BENEFICIAL "advancement" is two different things.  What BITMAIN is attempting to do is not BENEFICIAL to decentralized mining.  My opinion...

Your opinion is correct.
Bitmain is a bad actor of the market for two reasons :
- they mine with their own equipement and probably use 51% attack on the networks on which they can get the majority of the hashpower.
- they sell their equipement only once they know they are no more profitable hence destroying the network by increasing the difficulty even more

When someone buy an ASIC from Bitmain, you buy 10 time the price of a used device that has already been paid hundred folds thanks to premine.
You increase the benefit of Bitmain that can use this fund to destroy even more network by developping new ASIC.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BITMAIN

You don't think that other ASIC manufactures don't "TEST" equipment before sending it out?  You don't think Baikal tests their miners before sending them out.

When you have proof that Bitmain is causing 51% attacks I'll listen.  Here at work we manufacture printers, hey guess what every one is tested before we ship them.

Do you have proof on what the burn in time at Bitmain is, or are you just assuming that they mine for months?

If you don't have proof take your FUD somewhere else, or create a I hate Bitmain because thread.

Sure, you test them for a full year and prints thousands of page just to make sure and then send them to your customer as brand new.
Bitmain & Co has been mining monero for a bare minimum of 5 months (check the difficulty, why do you think it dropped to end december level when monero forked Huh)
That alone is THE PROOF that bitmain use it's device not for "test" but for profit and sends your old device (at least part of their batch)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2244677.0

And I would put Baikal or Halong in the same basket as bitmain.

That would be called circumstantial evidence in a court of law.    That is not "THE PROOF".

many people have been convicted in courts of law with only circumstantial evidence

also civil lawsuits  in the USA are based on preponderance of evidence  that means a greater chance of true then false.  Say 50.1%  true chance and 49.9% false chance is enough.

Here is the deal  multiple asic builders mined on the sneak across multiple gpu al- gore- rythms  this happened in 2017 and 2018.

Is it wrong no?

Is it good for cyptocoins maybe maybe not.

My gripe with asic builders = shit service and shit warranties when compared to gpu's

My power is cheap so cheap I can't lose out unless the gear breaks and is not replaced.   Avalon now has 2 year warranty  so I have avalon 841's

Can  asics be stopped? 

For some gpus  coins yes  they can.

3 tier difficulty  with a licensed software  works.


the software  allows mining  for any coin.

you have to buy it and it has a license to  1 ip 

past  4,000 sols  you move from hobby  and diff jumps

between 4,000 and 10,000 sols   small  and diff jumps

between 10,000  to 50,000 sols medium and diff jumps

over 50,000 to 200,000   large and diff jumps

over 200,000  unlimited and diff jumps


so this allows  any and all  gear  and since it is locked to 1 ip address  it makes the incentive to mine with asics  smaller  then it is now.


works for any coin.




I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 25, 2018, 04:46:13 PM
 #659

I wonder how long they run them for testing.  Maybe a week, day, a few hours?

I don't know, most of mine have been clean and new/like new condition.  So I am pretty sure they aren't "testing" all of them in the manner people think, but clearly they are running and selling some of the miners as new that were clearly mining before they shipped them.  So we cannot generalize some examples to be proof that all are done this way. 
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May 25, 2018, 04:58:52 PM
 #660

I wonder how long they run them for testing.  Maybe a week, day, a few hours?

I don't know, most of mine have been clean and new/like new condition.  So I am pretty sure they aren't "testing" all of them in the manner people think, but clearly they are running and selling some of the miners as new that were clearly mining before they shipped them.  So we cannot generalize some examples to be proof that all are done this way. 

Running for few hours/days doesn't accumulate as much dust
At least, clean off the dust on product picture itself. Tongue
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