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Author Topic: Bitcoin's 'limted' supply lie  (Read 4833 times)
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November 29, 2013, 05:14:08 PM
 #41

endless emptiness.
This thread.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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November 29, 2013, 05:24:37 PM
 #42

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning  Huh

Its the afternoon silly!
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November 29, 2013, 10:52:26 PM
 #43

Ok, tell me if I understand the question correctly paraphrased for fiat:

If I can buy a radio with a $20 bill and I go to the bank and break that $20 bill into twenty $1 bills, then can I buy 20 radios?

If I can buy a coke for $1 and go to the bank and turn that dollar into a hundred pennies, can I buy 100 cokes?

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November 29, 2013, 11:25:25 PM
 #44

Ok, tell me if I understand the question correctly paraphrased for fiat:

If I can buy a radio with a $20 bill and I go to the bank and break that $20 bill into twenty $1 bills, then can I buy 20 radios?

If I can buy a coke for $1 and go to the bank and turn that dollar into a hundred pennies, can I buy 100 cokes?

I think the OP wants you to explain how that's not correct. Have fun...

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November 29, 2013, 11:51:50 PM
 #45

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.
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November 30, 2013, 12:01:18 AM
 #46

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?
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November 30, 2013, 12:39:21 AM
 #47

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Since the scenario is that the USD has been restructured, there is no "dollar" anymore, just megadollars, so I assume you mean that each megadollar has the same purchasing power as $1 trillion in today's dollars (note this is something that can't be decreed but only decided by the market). If that's what you mean, then yes, it is entirely sound given the government is somehow guaranteed not to issue more than 21 million megadollars. You could buy Google for 0.1 megadollars, a mansion for 0.00001 megadollars, a decent house or Lambo for 0.0000001 megadollars, a nice TV for 0.000000001 megadollars, lunch for 0.00000000001 megadollars, and a gumball for 0.0000000000001 megadollars.
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November 30, 2013, 12:43:26 AM
 #48

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Since the scenario is that the USD has been restructured, there is no "dollar" anymore, just megadollars, so I assume you mean that each megadollar has the same purchasing power as $1 trillion in today's dollars (note this is something that can't be decreed but only decided by the market). If that's what you mean, then yes, it is entirely sound given the government is somehow guaranteed not to issue more than 21 million megadollars. You could buy Google for 0.1 megadollars, a mansion for 0.00001 megadollars, a decent house or Lambo for 0.0000001 megadollars, a nice TV for 0.000000001 megadollars, lunch for 0.00000000001 megadollars, and a gumball for 0.0000000000001 megadollars.

Oh no, there would still be dollars, like there are satoshis. It's just that a megadollar would be the top denomination like a Bitcoin is the top denomination. Now, you talk about the market deciding value. Where would Bitcoin be had it not leeched value from the very currencies its fans decry? All that mining hardware and other infrastructure, all the speculative capital. Bitcoin exists because it has assimilated value that people like you claim is non existent )because the dollar and other state fiat are worthless).
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November 30, 2013, 12:45:54 AM
 #49

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Dude think about it this way: there are 10 equal shareholders of a company, if no new shares are handed then it doesn't matter if the 9 other share holders split their shares with their friends and whoever - you will still own the same portion of the total pie (this is bitcoin). However if new shares were created out of thin air and given to people so that now there is 20 people equally sharing that same pie - then now your share of the total pie has been diluted and what you own has decreased (this is the fiat system).

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November 30, 2013, 12:51:44 AM
 #50

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Since the scenario is that the USD has been restructured, there is no "dollar" anymore, just megadollars, so I assume you mean that each megadollar has the same purchasing power as $1 trillion in today's dollars (note this is something that can't be decreed but only decided by the market). If that's what you mean, then yes, it is entirely sound given the government is somehow guaranteed not to issue more than 21 million megadollars. You could buy Google for 0.1 megadollars, a mansion for 0.00001 megadollars, a decent house or Lambo for 0.0000001 megadollars, a nice TV for 0.000000001 megadollars, lunch for 0.00000000001 megadollars, and a gumball for 0.0000000000001 megadollars.

Oh no, there would still be dollars, like there are satoshis. It's just that a megadollar would be the top denomination like a Bitcoin is the top denomination. Now, you talk about the market deciding value. Where would Bitcoin be had it not leeched value from the very currencies its fans decry? All that mining hardware and other infrastructure, all the speculative capital. Bitcoin exists because it has assimilated value that people like you claim is non existent )because the dollar and other state fiat are worthless).

In that case, the government didn't really restructure the USD, just renamed the denominations. (Keep in mind a dollar (or a trillion-dollar bundle) is already infinitely divisible. There's just no practical way to pay less then a penny. But exchamges and such have been known to deal in smaller subdivisions internally.)

You have a piece of pie. Dice it, mince it, or liquefy it. It's still the same amount of pie.
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November 30, 2013, 12:56:54 AM
 #51

didnt the OP make this same exact post a week ago?

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November 30, 2013, 01:06:28 AM
 #52


Saying that there can only ever be 21 million Bitcoins is an empty scarcity argument, because the actual value of a Bitcoin is not yet settled by the market.

The 21 million is limited by the mining software.  The USD / BTC exchange rate is not relevant to this.

I try to be respectful and informed.
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November 30, 2013, 01:14:57 AM
 #53


Saying that there can only ever be 21 million Bitcoins is an empty scarcity argument, because the actual value of a Bitcoin is not yet settled by the market.

The 21 million is limited by the mining software.  The USD / BTC exchange rate is not relevant to this.


Well, it is. The more value that accrues to a Bitcoin the greater the demand for subunits to fractionalise value. It's why Litecoin pisses the Bitcoiners off so much, because it is perceived to be preventing people buying satoshis, buyers instead preferring the perception of getting more for their money with Litecoin. The goal is to transition the speculation over to subunits so as to lower the price of speculating on Bitcoin and broaden the speculator base.  It's why the press is inundated with fake Bitcoin stories, like the guy who lost his Bitcoin containing hard drive; 5 minutes research would show he has all the Bitcoins he ever did and it was simply sa way of getting a big news story in the press about Bitcoin. The whole thing is about manipulating people into conferring more and more value up the denominational chain.
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November 30, 2013, 01:43:19 AM
 #54

didnt the OP make this same exact post a week ago?

And here I thought this was all some kind of weird deja-vu. 

Guess I'm not prescient after all. I Better go adjust my bids and asks, lol.

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November 30, 2013, 01:48:54 AM
 #55

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning  Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Open your eyes.  There is a whole world outside of your little piece of Earth.  It is always morning somewhere.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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November 30, 2013, 02:02:11 AM
 #56

[...] if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Yes.

Well ok, there's no formal definition of "sound money", but it stops being inflationary money if that's what you mean.

Does that answer your question?
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November 30, 2013, 02:24:27 AM
 #57

revans,

There's several more basic confusions to clear up.

Try this: http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf
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November 30, 2013, 02:34:22 AM
 #58

revans,

There's several more basic confusions to clear up.

Try this: http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

No thanks. He's a Libertarian crackpot
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November 30, 2013, 02:45:17 AM
 #59

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning  Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Open your eyes.  There is a whole world outside of your little piece of Earth.  It is always morning somewhere.

Lies! Your telling me its somehow different times in different places? Get out of here!
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November 30, 2013, 03:18:25 AM
 #60

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning  Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Open your eyes.  There is a whole world outside of your little piece of Earth.  It is always morning somewhere.

Lies! Your telling me its somehow different times in different places? Get out of here!

You caught me... I was just trollin  Cheesy

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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