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Author Topic: Economic Devastation  (Read 503947 times)
r0ach
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December 11, 2016, 06:45:50 PM
 #2721

Just want to point out that the only people who cry about Jews are envious losers. Jews practice economic nepotism because it works out really well for them! The only reason losers like Roach complain is that they can't benefit. You're the Marxist scum, Roach, you sad little man, trying to take others down for what they've accomplished.  

Nice, I have an actual JIDF shill account following me around now.  The problem isn't solely Jews practicing collectivism, it's that they attempt to not only prevent whites from acting in their own collective interests, they even try to pass laws preventing them from doing so.  The alt-right is now taking over and nobody really gives a shit what lunatic leftists or Marxist Jews say anymore.

Here's your typical example of Jewish Marxist propaganda commonly seen in America.  The effectiveness of this propaganda is zero now that the alt-right has won:


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December 11, 2016, 08:05:35 PM
 #2722

Again, this is all hand waving, obfuscation nonsense.  I know for a fact that the Jews are not going to stop practicing extreme ethnic nepotism for the benefit of themselves and to the detriment of everyone else they come in contact with anytime soon.  Only a fool doesn't see them as being the main force behind our scam economic system and media propaganda.  I would be happy to live and let live, but the Jews obviously don't see it that way, so it's either a choice of them or me and I'm going to pick me instead.  Simple survival at this point.

As mentioned, they operate with extreme collectivism, and there is no way to combat a collective enemy without a collective solution.  You gave the common white man no other choice.  It's not our fault, it's your fault.  This has happened numerous times before in literally hundreds of countries and you still haven't learned your lesson. You can see why I have zero sympathy.

Just to clarify I have no Jewish ancestry. My genetic heritage is overwhelmingly Scandinavian (light hair and blue eyes) and I have a German last name.

Targeting your anger at Jews will only blind you to the larger issues. Do some Jews embrace evil? You bet they do. However, if you could snap you fingers and make every Jew vanish you would be left with a world with far more evil not less. Evil sooner or later destroys those who embrace it whether those individuals be Aryans, Asians, Blacks, Jews, Christians, or Communists.

Here is a short 5 minute video I recommend watching.

https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/i-am-lord-your-god

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December 12, 2016, 02:11:26 AM
 #2723

Again, this is all hand waving, obfuscation nonsense.  I know for a fact that the Jews are not going to stop practicing extreme ethnic nepotism for the benefit of themselves and to the detriment of everyone else they come in contact with anytime soon.  Only a fool doesn't see them as being the main force behind our scam economic system and media propaganda.  I would be happy to live and let live, but the Jews obviously don't see it that way, so it's either a choice of them or me and I'm going to pick me instead.  Simple survival at this point.

As mentioned, they operate with extreme collectivism, and there is no way to combat a collective enemy without a collective solution.  You gave the common white man no other choice.  It's not our fault, it's your fault.  This has happened numerous times before in literally hundreds of countries and you still haven't learned your lesson. You can see why I have zero sympathy.

Just to clarify I have no Jewish ancestry. My genetic heritage is overwhelmingly Scandinavian (light hair and blue eyes) and I have a German last name.

Targeting your anger at Jews will only blind you to the larger issues. Do some Jews embrace evil? You bet they do. However, if you could snap you fingers and make every Jew vanish you would be left with a world with far more evil not less. Evil sooner or later destroys those who embrace it whether those individuals be Aryans, Asians, Blacks, Jews, Christians, or Communists.

Here is a short 5 minute video I recommend watching.

https://www.prageru.com/courses/religionphilosophy/i-am-lord-your-god

Well, I'm sorry to say but I'm not practicing your nonsense Ghandi ideology of let people trample over you.  The way life works is that people form collective groups and throw their weight around, which forces others into collective groups to defend against them.  You can either practice cuckoldism and be enslaved in usury or overthrow the slave masters.  Contrary to your claim that overthrowing the slave masters is "evil", they are the ones practicing the evil ideology and they do it in a collective manner where tossing one or two or even 100 in jail does absolutely nothing.

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December 12, 2016, 02:25:44 AM
 #2724

Quote
fractional reserve, usury scams.

Not sure how this got tied to race, its pretty common now and for a long time.   The dynamic thats with us recent in this generation and before is the centralised part of banking, this allows for the leverage of fractional reserve to be tied to debasement of the monetary base.    Thats a general negative for the population as they underwrite risks taken by the 'banking elite',  its not race based.   All of us are in this mess pretty much

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December 12, 2016, 03:02:15 AM
 #2725

DIFFERENCES BETWEEN LEFT AND RIGHT: MORAL DEFECTS
Conservatives focus on transforming themselves, not the nation

http://www.wnd.com/2015/06/differences-between-left-and-right-moral-defects/#M64xfXIgEppekIWh.99

By Dennis Prager

The difference between right and left addressed in this column concerns a fundamentally different method that each utilizes in order to improve society.

Conservatives believe that the way to a better world is almost always through moral improvement of the individual – by each person doing battle with his own moral defects. It is true that in particularly violent and evil societies such as fascist, communist and Islamist tyrannies the individual must be preoccupied with battling outside forces. Almost everywhere else, however, and certainly in a free and decent country such as America, the greatest battle of the individual must be with inner forces – that is, with his or her flawed character and moral defects.

The left, on the other hand, believes that the way to a better world is almost always through doing battle with society’s moral defects (real and/or as perceived by the left). Thus, in America, the left defines the good person as the one who fights the sexism, racism, intolerance, xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and other evils the left believes permeate American society.

That is one reason those on the left are more preoccupied with politics than those on the right. A simple example should make this point clear. Whenever the term “activist” or “social activist” or “organizer” is used, one infers that the term refers to someone on the left.

One consequence of this difference is that conservatives believe that good is achieved far more gradually than liberals do. The process of making a better world is largely a one-by-one-by-one effort. And it must be redone in every single generation. The noblest generation ever born still has to teach its children how to battle their natures. If it doesn’t, even the best society will begin to rapidly devolve, which is exactly what conservatives believe has been happening to America since the end of World War II.

The left does not focus on individual character development. Rather, it has always and everywhere focused on social revolution. The most revealing statement of then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, the most committed leftist ever elected president of the United States, was made just days before the 2008 election: “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America,” he told a large rapturous audience.

Conservatives not only have no interest in fundamentally transforming the United States, but they are passionately opposed to doing so. Fundamentally transforming any but the worst society – not to mention transforming what is probably the most decent society in history – can only make the society worse. Of course, conservatives believe that America can be improved, but not transformed, let alone fundamentally transformed.

The founders all understood that the transformation that every generation must work on is the moral transformation of each citizen. Thus, character development was at the core of both childrearing and of young people’s education at school.

As John Adams said: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

And in the words of Benjamin Franklin: “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.”

Why is that? Because freedom requires self-control. Otherwise, external controls – which means an ever more powerful government – would have to be imposed.

The more that leftist ideas influence society the less character education there is. Instead, children are taught to focus on social issues. For example, the Wall Street Journal just reported that Common Core, the federal standards program for elementary and high schools, has unveiled a new K-12 science curriculum, the “Next Generation of Science Standards,” which will indoctrinate young Americans concerning global warming from kindergarten on.

And when they get to college, American young people will be taught about the need to fight such things as “white privilege” and the “rape culture” on their campuses.

At the same time, as a professor of philosophy wrote in the New York Times, fewer and fewer young Americans believe there are any moral truths.

Meanwhile, at home, fathers and religion, historically the two primary conveyors of moral truths and moral self-discipline, are often nonexistent.

As a result of all this, we are producing – indeed, we have produced since World War II – vast numbers of Americans who are passionate about carbon emissions and fighting sexism and “white privilege” who are also cheating on tests at unprecedentedly high levels.

But the age-old wisdom embraced by conservatives remains as true as ever: Before you fix society, you must first fix yourself.

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December 12, 2016, 03:35:32 AM
 #2726

Well, I'm sorry to say but I'm not practicing your nonsense Ghandi ideology of let people trample over you.  The way life works is that people form collective groups and throw their weight around, which forces others into collective groups to defend against them.  You can either practice cuckoldism and be enslaved in usury or overthrow the slave masters.  Contrary to your claim that overthrowing the slave masters is "evil", they are the ones practicing the evil ideology and they do it in a collective manner where tossing one or two or even 100 in jail does absolutely nothing.

Overthrowing the an older order through force or violence and taking its place as top oppressor is indeed how life worked up until 1446 BC. Fortunately since then we have been gifted with a superior model. I never said you should let people trample over you only that you have misidentified the actual problem.

Quote
fractional reserve, usury scams.

Not sure how this got tied to race, its pretty common now and for a long time.   The dynamic thats with us recent in this generation and before is the centralised part of banking, this allows for the leverage of fractional reserve to be tied to debasement of the monetary base.    Thats a general negative for the population as they underwrite risks taken by the 'banking elite',  its not race based.   All of us are in this mess pretty much

Agreed.

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December 12, 2016, 10:26:30 AM
 #2727

More hand waving pretending there is not an ethnocentric cult known as Judaism running the banks and media propaganda machine.

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December 12, 2016, 12:00:48 PM
 #2728

in this present day the aim of every economic is to be the best in world so in all these very one are doing their best to make sure that their citizen are all well to do so all they can do now is try to avoid wastage of economic funds bring up new inventions that will be of profit to the economic  and make their people happy after.   
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December 12, 2016, 09:14:45 PM
Last edit: December 12, 2016, 09:38:18 PM by CoinCube
 #2729

More hand waving pretending there is not an ethnocentric cult known as Judaism running the banks and media propaganda machine.

Modern banking especially fractional reserve banking is a universal and historic form of theft. As a society we tolerate it and will suffer for this tolerance.

It does not matter who benefits most from the breach. If every current banker including all those of Jewish ancestry suddenly vanished other groups would simply step into their places and things would carry on exactly as before.

This is a fundamental moral failing of society. Until that is widely understood attempts at "social revolution" will only make things worse.

Once moral failings are accepted and celebrated they tend to destroy the existing social order. It was the institution of slavery that more than any other factor that destroyed the Roman Republic. Modern banking will likewise lead to the functional demise of most of the modern nation states as they become parts of larger multinational structures.

The beginnings of the fall of the Rome can be traced back all the way to 133 BC

From:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracchus

Quote
Tiberius was elected to the office of tribune of the plebeians in 133 BC. He immediately began pushing for a programme of land reform, partly by invoking the 240-year-old Sextian-Licinian law that limited the amount of land that could be owned by a single individual.

Central to the Gracchi reforms was an attempt to address economic distress and its military consequences. Much public land had been divided among large landholders and speculators who further expanded their estates by driving peasants off their farms. While their old lands were being worked by slaves, the peasants were often forced into idleness in Rome where they had to subsist on handouts due to a scarcity of paid work.

The senators obstructed his re-election. They also gathered an ad hoc force, with several of them personally marching to the Forum, and had Tiberius and some 300 of his supporters clubbed to death. This was the first open bloodshed in Roman politics for nearly four centuries.

Note the crisis was caused by the widespread expansion of slavery undermining the ability of the middle class to productively work small farms or find gainful employment essentially forcing them into the ancient equivalent of welfare.

Attempts to rectify the situation politically led to the first instance of violence over compromise in Roman politics. From here follows the later death of the republic, the inevitable rise of men like Caracalla

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/research/monetary-history-of-the-world/roman-empire/chronology_-by_-emperor/third-civil-war-severan-dynasty/caracalla-198-217ad/

and later to the masses welcoming the barbarian invaders as liberators.

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December 12, 2016, 09:37:39 PM
 #2730

Modern banking especially fractional reserve banking is a universal and historic form of theft. As a society we tolerate it and will suffer for this tolerance.

It does not matter who benefits most from the breach. If every current banker including all those of Jewish ancestry suddenly vanished other groups would simply step into their places and things would carry on exactly as before.

100% COMPLETELY FALSE - And the reason why all non-homogeneous civilizations collapse, also demonstrated by "The Florida effect".  Homogeneous civilizations like Japan are less likely to rip one another off because they see each other as possible relatives and benefit in not acting in a malevolent manner amongst one another to facilitate continuing to pass those genes on.  Without that, the world is just a massive tragedy of the commons where everything is considered a dumpster and someone else's problem with no accountability for anyone's actions.

The Florida effect was a study where people are more likely to agree to pay taxes for areas of which share common genetic ancestry and oppose it for other groups.  Humans are tribal in nature period.

The Jews run a scam of extreme collective nepotism - group evolutionary strategy, while telling others they're not allowed to do so.  The individual cannot compete against a group, so they automatically win if you follow their Marxist propaganda, which they hypocritically have no intent to follow themselves.  Failure to see this is the fastest way to ensure your own extinction.  Feel free to be a shabbos goy servant.  Henry Ford, Vladimir Putin, Bobby Fischer, and I will join the other team.








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CoinCube
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December 13, 2016, 03:45:45 AM
Last edit: December 30, 2016, 07:10:41 PM by CoinCube
 #2731


100% COMPLETELY FALSE - And the reason why all non-homogeneous civilizations collapse, also demonstrated by "The Florida effect".  Homogeneous civilizations like Japan are less likely to rip one another off because they see each other as possible relatives and benefit in not acting in a malevolent manner amongst one another to facilitate continuing to pass those genes on.  Without that, the world is just a massive tragedy of the commons where everything is considered a dumpster and someone else's problem with no accountability for anyone's actions...

The Jews run a scam of extreme collective nepotism - group evolutionary strategy, while telling others they're not allowed to do so... Failure to see this is the fastest way to ensure your own extinction...

Let's break down the arguments implicit in your post above.

Argument A) All non homogeneous societies collapse because people will never learn to treat non-genetically related strangers morally. The tribal nature of humanity cannot be overcome.

Whatever tribal hardwiring humans have it is designed for small groups where all members are known watched and observed. Maintaining a group larger then a tribe requires either the oppression of a police state or in the case of a free society a moral populace. This was well stated by Henning Web Prentis, Jr who described how the loss of morality would take a people from freedom to bondage.

Quote from:  Henning Webb Prentis, Jr
Paradoxically enough, the release of initiative and enterprise made possible by popular self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within. Again and again after freedom has brought opportunity and some degree of plenty, the competent become selfish, luxury-loving and complacent, the incompetent and the unfortunate grow envious and covetous, and all three groups turn aside from the hard road of freedom to worship the Golden Calf of economic security.

The historical cycle seems to be: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy; from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more."

It is moral degradation that leads to bondage for it is moral strengthening that allows free societies to be built in the first place. Loss of ethnic or racial homogeneity is unimportant except to the degree such diversity contributes to moral strengthening or decline.

This is why ethical monotheism is so important and the reason why so much that is good in the world came from the west. It is ethical monotheism that teaches us not to sin even when dealing with strangers.

Quote from: A.W. Tozer
Whatever other factors may be present in an act of wrongdoing, folly is one that is never absent. To do a wrong act a man must for the moment think wrong; he must exercise bad judgment.

Sin, I repeat, in addition to anything else it may be, is always an act of wrong judgment. To commit a sin a man must for the moment believe that things are different from what they really are; he must confound values; he must see the moral universe out of focus; he must accept a lie as truth and see truth as a lie; he must ignore the signs on the highway and drive with his eyes shut; he must act as if he had no soul and was not accountable for his moral choices.

Sin is never a thing to be proud of. No act is wise that ignores remote consequences, and sin always does. Sin sees only today, or at most tomorrow; never the day after tomorrow, next month or next year. Death and judgment are pushed aside as if they did not exist...

Sin is basically an act of moral folly, and the greater the folly the greater the fool.

Argument B) Unless the Jews collective nepotism is challenged it will result in the extinction of non Jews.

You know what worries me about the Jews? It is that fact that so many of them no longer practice Judaism.

I am sure some will vehemently disagree but the reality is that being Jewish is less about race and more about Faith. Strip Judaism from the Jews and you are left with a very intelligent, somewhat insular, group who have abandoned ethical monotheism. That is very bad news for society as a whole and especially bad news for the Jews for on a long enough time horizon sin is never advantageous.

American Jewish Fertility by Religious Current
Religious SectAverage No. of Children per Woman
Ultra-Orthodox6.72
Modern Orthodox3.39
Conservative1.74
Reform1.36
Secular1.29

The farther Jews travel from their historic religious traditions the more their fertility plummets. Secular Jews have a shockingly low fertility of 1.29 among the lowest in the world.  

Your post indicates concern about extinction implying ethnic homogeneity offers some protection but let's look as some numbers.

According to the World DataBank, in 2013 (the latest year for which full data — not just estimates — are available) Japan, with its 1.43 TFR, was doing better than South Korea and Singapore (both 1.19), Hong Kong (1.12) and Germany (1.38).

The reality is that if you are looking for a tonic for the toxins of modernity you will not find solutions in ethnic homogeneity or racial nepotism. However, you may find them elsewhere.

See:
Health and Religion


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December 13, 2016, 10:14:31 AM
 #2732

Economic devastation  this this process were there is orderliness in the economic, in this time out there are so many wastage of economic rescues and even up to destruction life, buildings and other valuable property we can take a very good case study and see what is happening in Syria today and many other places like that.   
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December 13, 2016, 12:49:26 PM
 #2733

Whatever tribal hardwiring humans have it is designed for small groups where all members are known watched and observed. Maintaining a group larger then a tribe requires either the oppression of a police state or in the case of a free society a moral populace.

No, it does not mean you create a giant nation of billions of people and govern them with a police state.  It means governance and democracy does not scale and you utilize smaller groupings of people.


It is moral degradation that leads to collapse for it is moral strengthening that allows free societies to be built in the first place. Loss of ethnic or racial homogeneity is unimportant except to the degree such diversity contributes to moral decline.

No such thing.  Humans are animals just like everything else on the planet.  Most animals practice might makes right.  Other animals have developed group evolutionary strategy and other tricks.  It all has a purpose to further specific goals, usually passing on genes, NOT morality as the end goal.  You can't base your arguments all in religion or other completely subjective philosophy.


Argument B) Unless the Jews collective nepotism is challenged it will result in the extinction of non Jews.

You know what worries me about the Jews? It is that fact that so many of them no longer practice Judaism.

Lol, you gotta be kidding me.  Jews have been acting identically for thousands of years.  You use all these religious arguments then forget the story of Jesus flipping over the tables and tossing the money changers out of the temple.  This is why Jews despise the mention of Jesus and always try to destroy and ban things like Christmas.  It's all a reminder of the people who first opposed their rent seeking behavior and usury scams.  We now live in the exact same situation where it is once again time for someone to flip over the tables and boot them out again for trying to enslave people through usury.


I am sure some will vehemently disagree but the reality is that being Jewish is less about race and more about Faith.

Most so called Jews are Atheists.  There is no Jewish faith, it's just an ethnocentric cult.  When they took over Russia, they were not practicing any religion.  They had "customs", but it's not religious.  They practiced Atheism and murdered somewhere between 20-60 million white, Christian Russians.

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iamnotback
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December 13, 2016, 06:40:25 PM
Last edit: December 13, 2016, 07:13:04 PM by iamnotback
 #2734

Anonymint always says, ... Oh, don't buy Bitcoin, that's not good either.

See my next post for the proof that you are lying. Even when I was wondering if BTC might follow gold down to a lower low (before I realized a couple months ago that was incorrect), I hadn't become bearish on crypto-currency going forward. I was merely trying to call the bottom of the "mountain of hope" in the first stage of an adoption cycle for new technology.

The moral of the story is, take into account that Ted Kaczynski is right and all technology only leads to further centralization and loss of freedom

Wrong! You are going to be so far behind by the end of 2017. You equate what is "creative destruction" giving birth to something more efficient and better, as a death.

I have only been thinking A LITTLE about when & how a Knowledge Age might hit.  For it to affect most of us, I think that is fairly far-off into the future.  Especially in the Third World and among illiterates.

This is how fast it changes:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/506466/given-tablets-but-no-teachers-ethiopian-children-teach-themselves/

It is already started in the developing world more than a decade ago. You under appreciate how much the Internet has changed the world. I was in the Philippines in 1991 and couldn't even communicate to another island faster than a snail mail 14 day turnaround (couldn't get an icecube in my drink either!). Now the students don't even use textbooks in college here, they just learn everything on the Internet. Ditto Africa.

You seem to think the Knowledge Age means you can only be a programmer. Rather it includes all forms of human production with technology and our brain. Include social media marketer, game designer, social networking power user,  etc..

If you want to see the Knowledge Age in action, go hang out with some youth in their daily lives especially in the developing and third world. The Knowledge Age is so far advanced already and you are completely blind to it, which is amazing. I guess you guys spend all your time fondling your gold and don't actually interact with the youth in their activities.

Gold might not be good forever and ever, but it should be good for me, my child and (with luck) any grandchildren...

Already dead and dying very fast to be entirely useless except for large players in the Old World (i.e. not the virtual economy) withering dinosaur physical/nation-state/NWO economy within another 10-20 years or so.

Precious metals are already long-since dead as unit-of-exchange. The governments are now going to kill it as a store-of-value and the Millennials are not going to support your tinfoil hat delusions. They've already switched to the Knowledge Age and everything virtual. They will adopt crypto-currency and digital currency instead.

If they took the DOW to 30,000 as a function of enormous debt levels ... and metals will skyrocket

DOW will go to 38,000+.

I have explained the Martin's Armstrong thesis numerous times (which is proving to be correct!), but you seem to ignore it and repeat the same nonsense misinterpretation over and over again.

The dollar and USA stocks are headed higher until the peak sometime in 2018, not because of Trump's stimulus, but because of the short dollar vortex which is sending all the international capital flowing into the dollar. Trump is just a kickstarter to accelerate that vortex.

Remember international capital follows international capital. The dollar short (carry trade unwinding) vortex will drive it bonkers.

Dollar up, gold down. Until 2018 when this vortex effect peaks.

what are you going to eat in the Knowledge Age

When complex systems collapse, you go into a dark age, not a knowledge age.  You don't get an age of enlightenment from regional instability.  Sometimes I think Anonymint believes you can will things into existence, but willing a new renaissance into reality amongst a bunch of dindus looting the local storefronts isn't going to happen.

Don't compare apples to digital copies.

You are making a category error. The Knowledge Age will continue growing exponentially regardless if the physical/tangible economy is collapsing.

Pay attention to the word "bifurcation" in my prior email to Armstrong which OROBTC shared on my behalf.

Even with the latter it's difficult to imagine the physical economy shrinking significantly, we're not spirits nor electrons, we need physical stuff to be produced

It is the debt based, fixed capital investment, financialization economy that will collapse. And that takes down the dominant physical economy. But yeah, the physical economy will rebound, but the Knowledge Age will not even slow down during all of this. It will be growing exponentially.

There is a history going back where the west attempted to demonitize silver as a way to hurt China + India and others

Which I wrote about 9 years ago when I used to be a tinfoil hat, but now don't agree with everything I wrote then.

silver

g'ahead and we'll just switch over to bitcoin or the likes and see your bag become worthless over night Smiley

Silver is the one thing where it doesn't even matter if the CBs bless it or not since the general public and technical traders will remonitize silver to the moon if they pump gold.

Silver is never coming back as a unit-of-exchange. The red quoted text is what is going to happen.

It is implicitly assumed that Bitcoin will be appreciating in the future (due to supply of new bitcoins tapering off eventually), and that is good for a store of value. This property contributes to hoarding. On the other hand, hoarding is the opposite of spending, they are mutually exclusive. To be a good means of exchange, money should be circulated, but the optimum seems to be somewhere in the positive territory of inflation rate, since money depreciating at a slow and low rate discourages saving and contributes to spending (while higher inflation rates would obviously disrupt circulation)

I wrote about this:





This is not true for several reasons.

#1 - There's no way cryptocurrency resides lower on the base of Exter's pyramid than real, existing commodity currency like gold and silver.  So cryptocurrency will always just be the bad money that drives out good money.  A civilization that skips the middleman and only uses good money is obviously more efficient since everyone will just be wasting time and resources constantly arbing between each one.  I mean gold and silver circulated in native form as coins.  Any digital form would just be a receipt to claim your metals in person.  Cryptocurrency is not trustless so there is no benefit or difference in efficiency.

#2 - The only way you can actually build a valid cryptocurrency is by usury proofing it.  The ability to practice usury in a cryptocurrency is just a sign you've created a Rube Goldberg machine that accomplishes nothing as I talk about here:

r0ach you are wrong on every point. But not in a way that would be obvious to you.

You will eat your hat soon...

(I won't bother to explain to you now bcz it is a complex, nuanced topic, and talking will only slow me down)


... you'd see you likely have to go low tech (physical gold and silver coins circulated in native form) to have decentralization rather than hopelessly trying to do so with some form of algorithmic computer money which is a medium (digital space) whose traits inherently prevent you from accomplishing said goal.  It's like trying to barbeque some food using the ocean as a grill.  

Programmers have a god complex so they tend to overlook inconveniences like this and just pretend all problems can be solved or worked around = creates Rube Goldberg machine to obfuscate what's actually going on.  Or create a system that appears to work as advertised until it reaches endgame equilibrium state and turns into something completely different.

I am a unique programmer, because I also take an interest in economics and other disciplines including marketing. That doesn't mean I am the smartest mathematician, cryptographer, etc.. (and I am surely not!) It means I have a knack for creative paradigm-shifts and thinking out-of-the-box, because I assimilate far ranging disciplines of knowledge.

Prepare to be proven wrong.
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December 13, 2016, 07:14:18 PM
 #2735


No, it does not mean you create a giant nation of billions of people and govern them with a police state.  It means governance and democracy does not scale and you utilize smaller groupings of people.
...
Humans are animals just like everything else on the planet.  Most animals practice might makes right.  Other animals have developed group evolutionary strategy and other tricks.  It all has a purpose to further specific goals, usually passing on genes, NOT morality as the end goal.  You can't base your arguments all in religion or other completely subjective philosophy.

You argue that humans have group evolutionary strategies then dismiss religion as irrelevant being "subjective philosophy".

Not only is religion important in human group evolution it is the primary determinant of group selection.

http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.com/2015/11/religion-as-proximate-method-of-group.html?m=1
Quote from: Bruce Charlton
Individual humans have adapted to live in a context of religion; and when religion is absent, human behaviour becomes maladaptive - because human instincts are 'designed' to function in a religious environment.
...
The main (secular) function of religion is social cohesion - that is, religion can enable larger and more complex forms of social functioning; including the stimulation and enforcement of motivation, altruism, long-termism.
...
Individual humans absent religion are un-equipped to pursue their own reproductive success.

Group selection entails that group behaviour be referenced to something outside the group. This is what groups cohere-around, organize around, cooperate to promote. Throughout history this 'something' has been religion - variously the spirits, the gods, or One God.

Since this has apparently been the case throughout all known history and stretching back into pre-history, individual humans have evolved to be coordinated by religion: religion is a built-in, innate expectation for each individual human; and if religion is absent, then individual behaviour lacks a necessary adaptive context.

Having been under group selection for so long, where each individual functioned as a 'component' part of a religious society; then individual level instincts will relatively have atrophied. So, remove the religion from an individual human being, and the behavioural rules and patterns lack context, and are maladaptive.

...

While group selection has been significant on all humans everywhere and at all times; European populations (also probably East Asian populations, perhaps to an even greater extent?) have been strongly group selected for large-scale cohesion over many dozens of generations; so that the effects of group selection are more significant in those of European descent than in most other populations.
...
European populations had Christianity as the proximate mechanism of group selection for hundreds of years; shaping the instinctual basis of the individuals. And Christianity must have been an extremely powerful mechanism of group selection, because it enabled what are, by world historical standards, very large cooperating groups persisting over multiple generations.

(By contrast, simple animistic religions are able to enforce cooperation of some scores of people; more complex totemistic religions can enable the cohesion of thousands; and the complex and literate Temple religion of Ancient Egypt enabled some millions of people to cohere for three thousand years! Christianity seems to have been similarly powerful to the ancient Egyptian religion, sustaining complex cooperation among millions of people.)
...
It may therefore be assumed that the people of Western nations inhabited by those of European descent evolved to become extremely dependent on Christianity in order to be adaptive.
...
Sans religion, Western populations lack the instinctual basis for individual level survival and reproduction, since these instincts long since atrophied - and atrophied to a more extreme degree than in most populations.

Now basic instincts such as reproduction, group survival, defence, long-termism for group goals, self-sacrifice for the group are defective or absent. The interaction between individual instincts and the non-religious environment is producing multiple, population-lethal pathologies. Voluntary subfertility is nearly universal; native population-replacement is advocated and celebrated; maladaptive forms of sexuality are common and actively-promoted; self-mutilation is escalating, normal and admired; the clamour for on-demand, comfortable, 'assisted' suicide grows greater with each year

...

Living without religion, but with a genetic makeup that had evolved to assume religion, to expect religion, and to live-within religion; the instinctual basis of Europeans, including their powers of evaluation and judgement, are revealed as both ineffective and inappropriate.

...

Of course, under current conditions and continuing present trends; eventually and after many generations individual level selection may lead to the evolution of new effective and appropriate instincts that aimed-at individual survival and reproduction - then, presumably, large scale societies would break down into much smaller competing units, since such individuals would have evolved to be resistant to the social cohesion mechanism of religion.

Alternatively, the adaptiveness of European populations may be strengthened by the restoration of Christianity.

Democracy may not scale beyond small groups but religion does.


This is why Jews despise the mention of Jesus and always try to destroy and ban things like Christmas.  It's all a reminder of the people who first opposed their rent seeking behavior and usury scams.  We now live in the exact same situation where it is once again time for someone to flip over the tables and boot them out again for trying to enslave people through usury.

Most so called Jews are Atheists.  There is no Jewish faith, it's just an ethnocentric cult.  When they took over Russia, they were not practicing any religion.  They had "customs", but it's not religious.  They practiced Atheism and murdered somewhere between 20-60 million white, Christian Russians.

Many Jews have no problem with the celebration of Jesus and Christmas. Here is a short little video of one such Jew condemning the use of Happy Holidays and advising everyone (including Jews) to use Merry Christmas.

https://www.prageru.com/courses/political-science/just-say-merry-christmas

As you stated many Jews are not religious. There is no doubt that non religious Jews played prominent roles in everything from historic communism to leading leftist causes of today. There is also some evidence in favor of your charge of Jewish nepotism. Below is a link describing how Asians in particular suffer under non objective admissions to top colleges and another arguing that Jews benefit disproportionately.

http://cornellsun.com/2016/10/16/does-the-ivy-league-discriminate-against-asian-american-applicants/
http://davidduke.com/jewish-racist-discrimination-against-better-qualified-students-at-harvard/

Asians and Jews on a per capita bases are the most academically accomplished so both should be over represented in top schools. However, no group should be allowed to leverage nepotism into an unfair advantage.

Is there unfair nepotism unfairly favoring the Jews and discriminating against some others especially Asians? Probably there is to some degree. Should it be called out and opposed...absolutely even by Jews. Such nepotism is very bad for society as a whole and even bad for Jews who do not need nepotism to succeed and as a minority will in the end suffer most if non-merit based criteria are allowed to proliferate.

All of this, however, is tangential to the real problem. The real problem is the large number of Jews who have left Judaism and the large number of Christians who have left Christianity and those in society who have no religion at all and go through life doing what feels good or is personally profitable as opposed to what is morally right. For it is these individuals who mostly unintentionally prevent us from building a better world.

HOW DO WE MAKE SOCIETY BETTER? LEFT VS. RIGHT
https://www.prageru.com/courses/left-and-right-differences

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December 13, 2016, 07:29:54 PM
Last edit: December 13, 2016, 08:05:00 PM by iamnotback
 #2736

Whatever tribal hardwiring humans have it is designed for small groups where all members are known watched and observed. Maintaining a group larger then a tribe requires either the oppression of a police state or in the case of a free society a moral populace.

No, it does not mean you create a giant nation of billions of people and govern them with a police state.  It means governance and democracy does not scale and you utilize smaller groupings of people.

You are missing the point that CoinCube made very far upthread that too much decentralization is unable to anneal to any synchronized order, i.e. that information is destroyed too rapidly (too locally).

Nature always requires a ying-yang competitive balance between the extremes of organization.

As correct as CoinCube is about the importance of morals, it is also important to have amoral behavior. I recently viewed an ancient interview of George Soros wherein he explained this well and he also said he is not religious.

CoinCube has to be careful he doesn't go too far and become a moralistic absolutist. r0ach is an absolutist in the some other extreme.
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December 14, 2016, 04:54:31 AM
Last edit: December 14, 2016, 05:14:59 AM by CoinCube
 #2737

I also don't know who you're trying to fool, but Jews voted for Clinton 61% and trump 19%:

Like It or Not, the American Jewish Future Is Orthodox, and Deeply Conservative
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.758295


Quote from: Rabbi Avi Shafran
Orthodoxy’s startling demographic growth means the tide is turning for the famously liberal values, voting patterns and communal life generally associated with the U.S. Jewish community.

No matter what some American Orthodox Jews might wish to imagine, they did not play a pivotal role in the election of Donald Trump. Still and all, a sizable number of them, according to polls, voted for him, and they were elated at the election’s outcome.
...

Based on Pew Research Center data compiled over three generations, demographers have called attention to the startling growth of the American Orthodox community, made all the more noteworthy by the apparent decline of the rest of the non-Orthodox American Jewish populace.  Within two generations, according to sociologist Steven M. Cohen, the Orthodox fraction of the American Jewish population has more than quintupled; and more than a quarter of American Jews 17 years of age or younger are Orthodox...

The changes, in fact, have been brewing for some time. Orthodox Jews have become steadily more active in political life – and they stand apart from the larger Jewish community, with 57 percent identifying as Republican and more than half identifying as politically and socially conservative. Among Haredim, nearly two-thirds call themselves conservative.

In the past, the Orthodox community was too small to have any political impact, particularly with most Orthodox Jews living in heavily Democratic districts.  With the demographic shift currently taking place, though, and with the aforementioned quarter of young American Jews poised to join the electorate, that tide seems destined to turn



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/nyregion/in-democratic-stronghold-of-new-york-city-trump-finds-support-among-orthodox-jews.html?_r=0
Quote from: William Neuman
In the blue sea of New York City, where Hillary Clinton crushed Donald J. Trump in the election on Tuesday, there were still some districts — working-class areas in the southeast Bronx, Mr. Trump’s childhood neighborhood in Jamaica Estates, Queens, and most of Staten Island — that did not go Mrs. Clinton’s way.

But of all the outlying pockets of Trump supporters in New York, perhaps the most distinct lay six miles south of the Clinton campaign headquarters: the Orthodox Jewish community of Borough Park, a neighborhood in Brooklyn that would seem to have little in common with Middle America, where Mr. Trump drew most of his support.

With its Judaica stores, kosher pizza shops, men in traditional black coats and hats and women with long skirts, Borough Park is home to thousands of Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, belonging to a range of sects, including Bobover, Belz, Satmar, Ger and Viznitz.

The vast majority of voters in the neighborhood are registered Democrats, but they often vote Republican, and this year was no different. In Brooklyn’s 48th Assembly District, which encompasses most of Borough Park, Mr. Trump got 69 percent of the vote, while Mrs. Clinton got 27 percent.

Interviews on the streets of Borough Park on Thursday did not turn up a single Clinton voter.

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December 17, 2016, 09:05:52 PM
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 #2738

Intervention Theory
Did a Higher Power Defeat the Nazis?

Quote from: Wikipedia
Nazism subscribed to theories of racial hierarchy and Social Darwinism, identifying Germans as part of what Nazis regarded as an Aryan or Nordic master race. It aimed to overcome social divisions and create a homogeneous society, unified on the basis of "racial purity" (Volksgemeinschaft). The Nazis aimed to unite all Germans living in historically German territory, as well as gain additional lands for German expansion under the doctrine of Lebensraum, while excluding those deemed either to be community aliens or belonging to an "inferior" race.

The utter defeat of Nazis is something of a historical oddity. The Nazi’s were the 20th century’s equivalent of the Mongols or the Huns. They were motivated, technologically advanced, disciplined, and man for man outclassed their rivals of the time. This advantage was seen in their multiple strategic triumphs. Until the fall of 1941 they went from victory to victory always one step ahead of their opponents. They conquered almost all of continental Europe and Norway quickly and decisively.

Hitler believed that the Soviet Union would rapidly collapse in the face of sustained attack and initially it appeared his assessment was entirely correct. In the first few months of the German attack the Germans captured millions of soviet prisoners. In the fall of 1941 German’s encircled destroyed the bulk of the armies guarding the approach to Moscow capturing over 500,000 prisoners. For a brief window the Soviets had only 90,000 men and 150 tanks left to defend Moscow.



Yet the Nazi’s did not capture Moscow they were repulsed and ultimately crushed. Three historical quirks of fate led to this defeat:

1)   Extreme and unusual weather that started in October 1941.
2)   Odd Nazi’s error in August 1941 that compromised secret German communications.
3)   Historical oddities in August of 1941 that led directly to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

All three of these oddities played a role in the defeating the Nazi regime and all three involved an unusual element of chance or circumstance. Let’s examine each of these.

A)  Extreme and unusual weather
Unusual Fall Rains:
Following the defeat of the armies guarding Moscow in October situation was dire for the Soviets. General Georgi Zhukov the soviet commander said the following.

“The defensive front in the west has been destroyed a huge gap has appeared in our lines and there is nothing to fill it as there are no reserves. The roads leading to Moscow are open.”

The Nazi’s were confident of victory. German Army Chief-of-staff, Franz Halder, wrote in his diary, “To save Moscow the enemy will try to bring up reinforcements, especially from the North.  But any such miscellaneous force, scraped together in an emergency, will not suffice against our superior strength, and provided our strategy is any good at all (provided the weather is not too bad), we shall succeed in divesting Moscow.”

https://www.tcc.fl.edu/media/divisions/library/citation-guide/turabianx2fchicago/Turabian-Sample-2012-Footnotes_ADA.pdf
Quote

Then the heavens broke. On the night of October 6-7, snow fell on the southern German spearhead and was subsequently followed by nearly a month of cold rain, mixed with snow, across the entire front. A seasonal shift in the regional storm track had begun pushing a series of Scandinavian Cyclones into the greater Moscow region. These intermittent snow and rain squalls, driven by strong northeastern winds, frequently grounded the two German air fleets supporting the offensive. More ominously, when coupled with the much lower fall evaporation rates, this steady wintry mix soon turned the area‘s few existing roads into quagmires.

I will provide rain for your land in the proper time, the autumn and spring rains (Deut 11:14)

With the severe mud German mobility ceased. The mud also wreaked havoc on German machinery. Fuel was consumed at three times the normal rate. General Guderian recalled that,

“. . . the roads rapidly became nothing but canals of bottomless mud, along which our vehicles could advance only at snail’s pace, and with great wear to the engines.  The next few weeks were dominated by the mud. Wheeled vehicles could advance only with the help of tracked vehicles. These latter, having to perform tasks for which they were not intended, rapidly wore out.”

http://www.allworldwars.com/Effects-of-Climate-on-Combat-in-European-Russia.html
Quote
The entire German army was completely stopped by mud. The muddy season of that year began in mid-October and was more severe than any other muddy season experienced in World War I or World War II. During the first stages cart and dirt roads were impassable, and then the road from Roslavl to Orel became mud-choked. Supply trucks broke through gravel-top roads and churned up traffic lanes until even courier service had to be carried out with tracked vehicles. Finally only horse-drawn vehicles could move; all other transport and the bulk of the tanks and artillery were stopped dead…

Motor vehicles broke down with clutch or motor trouble. Horses became exhausted and collapsed. Roads were littered with dead draft animals. Few tanks were serviceable….

Second Panzer Group… lost 60 percent of its tanks in mud. A division of Fourth Panzer Group, operating in the area north of Gzhatsk during the same period, lost fifty tanks without a shot being fired…no replacements were received. Germany at that time was producing only eighty-five tanks monthly… Tanks, heavy wreckers, and even vehicles with good ground clearance simply push an ever-growing wall of mud before them until they finally stop, half buried by their own motion. A sudden frost in the autumn of 1941 cemented a crippled, buried column into a state of complete uselessness, and it never moved again.



By November 1, two-thirds of the German trucks had broken down. The muddy season destroyed much of Germany’s motorized transport. What followed was winter and it was not a normal Russian winter. Instead the Nazi’s faced the most severe winter of the twentieth century.

Germany‘s soldiers froze when the full fury of the Russian winter hit on December 5, and the temperature subsequently plunged to a staggering -40º. Over one hundred thousand German soldiers had fallen out ill during the month-long Rasputitsa. Between the first week of December and early March, Army Group Center suffered frightful losses: over 256,000 dead and 350,000 sick or hospitalized with winter-related maladies such as frostbite.

Quote
Cold reduced the efficiency of German locomotives which had been built for the milder temperatures of Central Europe. During the first winter of the war 70 percent of the German locomotives broke down In the winter of 1941-12, sometimes only one third, and frequently less, of the daily quota of twenty-eight trains got through to Army Group Center. The German Second Army and Second Panzer Army together required eighteen supply trains a day and received only two. In November 1941 these armies were unable to take Tula because their supply system had broken down. Even the most critical supplies did not reach the front in time…

Paralyzed by cold, the German troops could not aim their rifle fire, and bolt mechanisms jammed or strikers shattered in the bitter winter weather. Machine guns became encrusted with ice, recoil liquid froze in guns, ammunition supply failed. Mortar shells detonated in deep snow with a hollow, harmless thud, and mines were no longer reliable.

B) Loss of operational secrecy
Prior to the Fall of 1941. The Nazi’s constantly surprised their enemies. Everything from the Invasion of Norway, to the assault on France, to the invasion of Russia came as a surprise to their opponents. After 1941 the Nazi’s lost all operational secrecy resulting in a dramatic loss of initiative.
 
The Allies achieved this advantage in part by breaking a top secret German code called Tunny. This was the high-level Nazi encryption machines used by Hitler and Mussolini to communicate directly with their generals in the field. The Germans were convinced that the Tunny cipher system was unbreakable. The system used 12 encryption wheels, four times as many as the famous Enigma machine, which was used in the field and carried standard military communications. How did the Allies break the code?

http://www.rutherfordjournal.org/article030109.html
Quote
On 30 August 1941 two messages with the same indicator were intercepted, B.P. suspected that they had found a depth (A mistake where the Tunny operator does not reset the encryption between messages). As it turned out, the first transmission had been corrupted by atmospheric noise, and the message was resent at the request of the receiving operator. Had the sender repeated the message identically, the use of the same wheel settings would have left (the allies) none the wiser. However, in the course of the second transmission the sender introduced abbreviations and other minor deviations (the message was approximately 4000 characters long). So the depth consisted of two not-quite-identical plaintexts each encrypted by means of exactly the same sequence of key—a codebreaker’s dream. Tutte deduced the design of the Tunny machine from this pair of intercepts.

So a German officer violated protocol sending a not quite identical message twice without properly encrypting the second message. This allowed the British codebreakers to reverse-engineer the German encryption machine, a process later described as "an incredible feat of dedication". This was all made possible because "random" atmospheric noise corrupted a transmission at the exact moment a lazy operator was sending a long message and did not follow protocol. Had this atmospheric noise not occurred the Tunny code may not have been broken.
  
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/captain-jerry-roberts-bletchley-park-codebreaker-who-helped-crack-the-tunny-code-hitler-used-to-9219984.html

Quote
The stream of intelligence (from Tunny) proved vital at key junctures of the war. The Russians were warned three or four months in advance of a major German offensive, Operation Citadel, the Battle of Kursk in July 1943, which went down in history as the biggest ever tank battle. The Russians were told how the attack would be carried out – a pincer movement – as well as the numbers involved…Other intelligence enabled the Allies to ascertain German movements when planning D-Day, helping save thousands of lives.
Between 1943 and 1945, Roberts and the Testery codebreakers were accessing 90 per cent of the German traffic with, at a conservative estimate, around 64,000 top-line Tunny messages intercepted and broken. Sir Harry Hinsley, a Bletchley veteran and official historian of British Intelligence during the Second World War, has estimated that the intelligence shortened the war by at least two years

However, Tunny was not fully broken in time to warn the Soviets of the German’s 1942 summer offensive towards Stalingrad. The 1942 German invasion plan was called Case Blue and was an attack on southern Russia. The goal of this attack was to destroy the Soviet forces of 1 million soldiers at the frontline in that area and capture the soviet oil fields in the caucuses. Stalin was entirely focused on Moscow certain a German attack would occur in the North. Yet despite this misconception a quirk of history would warn the Soviets of the upcoming German attack.

Early on the morning of the 19th of June 1942 an unarmed German liaison plan guided to earth near soviet army positions. There was no trail of smoke or obvious reason for its crash landing. When soviet troops captured the aircraft they found a single bullet hole through its petrol tank. The pilot was killed before he could destroy his briefcase which contained the top secret German plans. The dead German was Major Richter head of operation for the German 23 panzer division. He was carrying plans for the upcoming Case Blue Invasion. The single bullet hitting a moving plane at exactly the right spot apparently caused the plane to run out of fuel right over Soviets positions. The secret German plans literally fell in the Soviet’s hands out of “chance”. Unlike the the previous year when the Germans surprised and surrounded millions of soviet troops Case Blue lead to very few prisoners as the Soviets conducted an orderly withdraw in front of a German attack that was no longer a surprise.      

C) Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor
In 1941 the US was highly isolationist. Public opinion was strongly against entry into war. On December 7th, 1941 the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. This act would change public opinion and bring the massive strength of the USA down upon the Axis ensuring their defeat. Why did Japan attack the USA? That story is a very interesting one and revolves around a man named Dean Acheson.

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=22899
Quote
As of June 1941, Japanese companies had already obtained approved licenses for "7.1 million barrels of gasoline, 21.9 million barrels of crude oil, and 33,000 barrels of lubricants, altogether worth about $50 million," which meant that Japan could legally purchase from the United States "gasoline for another nine months and ordinary crude oil for an astonishing thirty-two months--enough to supply it until the end of 1943!". To Dean Acheson and some other hard-liners the idea of freezing Japanese assets became increasingly attractive, for a financial freeze by a single stroke of pen could cut U.S. exports to Japan to zero despite the approved licenses for oil purchase Japan had already obtained.

In response to Japanese troops' occupation of southern Indochina, Roosevelt wanted to impose "a dollar freeze that would subject all transactions with Japan to licensing", which gave the United States flexibility to decide later how much trade Japan should be allowed to resume based on its future behavior. According to the plan, the State Department and the Export Control Administration would continue to grant Japanese export licenses for oil, but a newly created three-man interdepartmental policy committee, the Foreign Funds Control Committee (FFCC), had to release funds for licensed exports.

When the United States froze Japanese assets in the United states the president told his interior secretary, Harold Ickes, at the time, his goal was not war in the Pacific: “I simply have not got enough Navy to go around—and every little episode in the Pacific means fewer ships in the Atlantic.”. He had earlier told Churchill that a fight with Japan would be “the wrong war in the wrong ocean at the wrong time.” The PM agreed their first objective must be to defeat Hitler. Roosevelt’s involvement is unclear but with or without approval it was in August of 1941 that Assistant secretary of state Dean Acheson set the USA on the course to war against Japan.

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/05/oil_led_to_pearl_harbor/
Quote
Roosevelt, his trusted adviser Harry Hopkins and U.S. Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles were attending the shipboard conference off Newfoundland in and Secretary of State Cordell Hull was on vacation at the Greenbrier in West Virginia, the authority to grant licenses to export and pay for oil and other goods was left in the hands of a three-person interagency committee dominated by Assistant Secretary of State Dean Acheson, whom one historian described as the “quintessential opportunist of U.S. foreign policy in 1941.”

Acheson favored a “bullet-proof freeze” on oil shipments to Japan, claiming it would not provoke war because “no rational Japanese could believe that an attack on us could result in anything but disaster for his country.”

With breathtaking confidence in his own judgment, and ignoring the objections of others in the State Department, Acheson refused to grant licenses to Japan to pay for goods in dollars. That effectively ended Japan’s ability to ship oil and all other goods from the United States. Acheson’s actions cut off all American trade with Japan. When Roosevelt returned, he decided not to overturn the “state of affairs” initiated by Acheson, (possibly) because he feared he would otherwise be regarded as an appeaser.

Oil was Japan's most crucial import, and more than 80% of Japan's oil at the time came from the United States. IJN headquarters informed Emperor Hirohito its reserve bunker oil would be exhausted within two years if a new source was not found. In August 1941, Japanese prime minister Fumimaro Konoe proposed a summit with President Roosevelt to discuss differences. Roosevelt replied Japan must leave China before a summit meeting could be held. On September 6, 1941, Japanese leaders met to discuss this crisis. Prime Minister Konoe argued for more negotiations and possible concessions to avert war. Prime Minister Konoe, was almost assassinated by pro-war fanatics wielding ceremonial knives. Weakened by the attempt to overthrow him and losing power and influence to militarist elements, Prince Konoe’s government fell on October 16, and he was replaced by hardliners.

In August of 1941 the Nazis appeared on the brink of total victory. The UK was in danger of being economically strangled by submarine warfare and armies of the Russians were collapsing. Two months later the vectors of fate had dramatically shifted. The severe weather was crippling the German army, top secret German communications were compromised, and the stage was set for US entry into the war. Tremendous sacrifice from the allies especially Russia would follow. The Nazi’s were now destined for defeat.
 
When asked to defend their belief that there is no God non-believers will often point to some horrific evil in the world and ask the following question:

“Why did God permit this why didn’t he stop it?”

The horror of the Holocaust is one example commonly cited. Here is one such argument:
https://whistlinginthewind.org/2012/05/07/why-did-god-not-stop-the-holocaust/
Quote
Why Did God Not Stop The Holocaust?
I can only see three possible explanations. Either God refused to prevent this genocide, in which case he is a bastard who we should not worship and praise. Or he did not know about the genocide or could do nothing to prevent it, in which case there is no point worshiping him and praying to him. Or he does not exist and they would have been as well praying for fairies or unicorns to save them. Draw your own conclusions.

Such argument ignores another possibility. Perhaps God did intervene to stop the Holocaust! The books of Jeremiah and Genesis are Holy Scripture to both Christians and Jews. These books spell out a promise made by God.

For I am with you, says the LORD, to save you: though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you, yet will I not make a full end of you: but I will correct you in just measure, and will not leave you altogether unpunished. (Jer. 30:11).

I will keep My covenant between Me and you, and your offspring after you throughout their generations, as an everlasting covenant to be your God and the God of your offspring after you” (Gen. 17:7).

Let us for a moment explore a hypothetical. Is it possible that God exists and that he created a world where humans are given free will even to do evil? Is it also possible that the promises written in Jeremiah and Genesis are promises from God that will be kept?
 
In their early years the Nazi’s discriminated against Jews but they did not try to exterminate them. This early Nazism was not an existential threat to the Jewish people. However, with the invasion of the Soviet Union that would change.

In June 1941. Four mobile killing groups were formed called special duty units Einsatzgruppen A, B, C and D. These squads would follow the German army, as it advanced deep into Soviet territory, and carry out mass-murder operations. At first, the mobile killing squads primarily targeted adult Jewish men. Initially there was a semblance of legality given to the shootings, with trumped-up charges being read out (arson, sabotage, black marketeering, or refusal to work, for example) and victims being killed by a firing squad. However, by August of 1941 net had been widened to include women and children.

The Einsatzgruppen gathered Jews town by town, marched them to huge pits dug earlier, stripped them, lined them up, and shot them with automatic weapons with survivors being killed with a pistol shot.


A people can perhaps survive the murder of its adult male population but it cannot survive the deaths of its women and children. By August of 1941 there was no longer be any doubt that the Jewish people were in danger of complete destruction.
 
http://chosenpeople.com/main/index.php/the-bible-and-the-preservation-of-the-jewish-people
Quote
The late Israeli Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, made a similar point, speaking at the Western Wall… (he) reminded his audience how close Hitler and Nazi Germany came to winning World War II. Had Hitler been successful, it would have meant the murder of not only six million European Jewish people, but could likely have led to the murder of virtually all the Jewish people around the globe.

Perhaps it is all a giant coincidence that it was also in August of 1941 that the fortunes of Nazi Germany took a dramatic turn for the worse. Perhaps it is simply chance that simultaneously altered so many vectors of destiny.
 
Nevertheless when people ask why didn’t God stop the holocaust and save the Jews I answer with a query of my own.

What makes you think he didn’t?


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December 18, 2016, 12:14:10 AM
 #2739

Hitler was not a great military leader, the Nazis defeated themselves is how I read their mistakes and misfortune.  The German army under other elements might have won or at least taken on less harm and not lost totally.
Hatred is self destructive first and foremost, its not a religious point more generally true they gained nothing in their needless destruction and lost what might have been a restoration of a wider German empire.     I would compare that to the thread topic by saying I think the largest economic changes long term are naturally occurring not political moves or forced through in some way, no great belief in people or doctrine is required to see changes that are probable to occur

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December 31, 2016, 03:03:50 AM
 #2740


How Is the Godless West Working Out?
By: Dennis Prager
https://www.google.com/amp/townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2016/09/13/how-is-the-godless-west-working-out-n2216907%3Famp%3Dtrue?client=safari
Quote
There are many recent developments in the godless West. To name a few:

--The Supreme Court of Italy last week ruled that public masturbation is legal (except in front of minors).


--The New York City Council voted in May that public urination is not a criminal act.

--The San Francisco City Council decided, by one vote, to continue the city's ban on public nudity -- not, of course, on the grounds of "decency" but on the grounds of public health. Since that can easily be resolved by use of a towel on public benches and chairs, it is only a matter of time, probably a couple of years, before people will be permitted to walk around naked in San Francisco.

--A few weeks ago, teachers in Charlotte, North Carolina, were instructed not to refer to their elementary school students as "boys and girls" but as "students" and "scholars." The reasoning is presumably for inclusivity -- there may be a student who has no gender identity -- and that adults should not impose a gender identity on young people.

--In a New York Times op-ed column, a professor of philosophy noted his shock at learning that most young Americans do not believe that moral truths exist. They are incapable of asserting that anything, including killing for fun, is wrong beyond personal opinion.

These are all inevitable consequences of the death of belief in God and Judeo-Christian values, and of the Bible as society's primary moral reference work.

The West has been in moral decline since World War I, the calamity that led to World War II and the death of national identity and Christianity in most of Europe.

There has always been one exception: the United States. But now that is ending. The seeds of America's decline have been sown since the beginning of the 20th century, and they came to fruition with the post-World War II generation, the baby boomers.

Radical and aggressive secularism and atheism have replaced religion in virtually every school and throughout American public life.

We have gone from President Abraham Lincoln reading the Bible every day to Alaska Airlines feeling forced to stop passing out prayer cards with meals. In a hundred years, we've gone from near-total biblical literacy to near-total biblical illiteracy. One wonders whether half of America's college seniors could correctly identify Cain and Abel, or whether more than 1 in 10 Americans could cite the Ten Commandments. We have gone from President Franklin D. Roosevelt proclaiming the need to save "Christian civilization" in World War II speeches to a virtual ban on American presidents mentioning the word "Christianity." And, as is widely noted, Americans are no longer supposed to wish strangers "merry Christmas," and they must refer to a Christmas party as a "holiday party."

Similarly, the European Union constitution never mentions Christianity, despite the fact that it was Christianity that formed Europe.

The prices that we Americans and Europeans are paying for creating the first godless societies in recorded history amount to civilizational suicide. Boys and girls are not to be referred to as boys and girls; Western elites dismiss national identity as protofascism; the belief that moral truth exists has been destroyed and replaced by feelings and opinions; fewer people are marrying; and more people live alone than at any time in American history.

Western European countries have become empty, soulless places. They are pretty and appear materially secure (for now), but they stand for almost nothing (except "multiculturalism" and "tolerance"). They have replaced a Jewish population that overwhelmingly wanted to assimilate with a Muslim population that does not want to. And nearly all European countries are headed to Greece-like insolvency as fewer and fewer workers pay enough in taxes to support those who collect welfare, and as tensions with their Muslim inhabitants increase.

But the good news is that now, beginning with Italy and New York, citizens can watch each other masturbate or urinate in public.

There is no way to prove that God exists. But what is provable is what happens when societies stop believing in God: They commit suicide.

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