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Author Topic: MemoryCoin 2.0 Proof Of Work  (Read 21350 times)
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FreeTrade
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December 03, 2013, 06:41:10 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2013, 10:45:15 AM by FreeTrade
 #1

I'm replacing the Proof of Work in MemoryCoin for the new 2.0 version. There was some speculation that the MemoryCoin PoW might not be GPU resistant and the long verification time was causing numerous speed and stability issues.

I'm basing the new PoW on ByteMaster's original Momentum PoW and updated ideas,
http://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=962.0

and with respect to Anonymint's concerns that memory latency rather than memory bandwidth was the real limiting factor.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325261.msg3520992#msg3520992


Here is a description of the new PoW (already implemented in code).

Step 1. Generate 512MB of PsuedoRandom data using SHA512 Scrypt
Step 2. XOR each 512K chunk against each other 512K chunk
Step 2.1 With the result of each XOR, treat the result as an array of 32 bit ints, XOR each 32bit int sequentially - the final result is the 'answer'
Step 2.2 If the answer is < X, it is a solution or match
Step 2.3 The locations of the two chunks, as well as the penultimate result of the 32bit XOR are attached to the block and a SHA256 is performed - this is the hash of the block.

The principles that should help in GPU and ASIC resistance are thus -
1. 512MB must be allocated to store the data. (It is much faster to read the data from memory than to generate it)
2. Each read from memory is a 512K chunk (so we're saturating the memory bandwidth rather than latency)
3. The operation is on two 512K chunks (this should take place in fast L2 cache, which is limited in supply)
4. Relatively fast verification (only 1MB of psuedorandom data needs to be generated to verify - 10 millisecs 60 millisecs )

Thanks to ByteMaster and AnonyMint for their contributions - there will be a premine in MemoryCoin 2.0 for some of the beta participants of the first coin, I'll include tips for you guys too.



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Kazahstanec
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December 03, 2013, 07:48:46 AM
 #2

And when at last start? ? ? About beta dough: I am ready to take in it part, there are some cars of a various configuration.
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December 03, 2013, 07:52:38 AM
 #3

You are making progress towards CPU only, but as far as I see you haven't defeated botnets. They are a serious problem. You can buy them for as low as $100 and including asian gaming machines that contain up to 8 - 16 GB of memory. Their owners prefer warez than to pay for software, thus are easy targets.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseackerman/2012/05/19/i-run-a-small-botnet-and-sell-stolen-information-ask-me-anything/

Is your domain name for sale? IMO, would be more efficient for you to piggyback on a coin which has really solved the cpu only design quest. But I don't want to discourage you also.

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December 03, 2013, 07:56:46 AM
 #4

You are making progress towards CPU only, but as far as I see you haven't defeated botnets.

Thanks. I have not included any measures to defeat botnets. I wish there was, but I don't see there is any way to combat botnets that is compatible with a wide mining base.

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December 03, 2013, 07:59:33 AM
 #5

You are making progress towards CPU only, but as far as I see you haven't defeated botnets.

Thanks. I have not included any measures to defeat botnets. I wish there was, but I don't see there is any way to combat botnets that is compatible with a wide mining base.

There is a tradeoff for sure. Should we ask users to add 16 GB to their PC so coins are going to the owners of the capital instead of the hackers and botnets thieves?

Then the technical issue of designing a hash that can work at that memory scale.

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Kazahstanec
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December 03, 2013, 08:03:34 AM
 #6

16 GB? ? ? ? ? Then the coin will lose huge audience of users, and you which stands up for such restrictions remove profit and you will escape on other coin.
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December 03, 2013, 08:03:57 AM
 #7

You are making progress towards CPU only, but as far as I see you haven't defeated botnets.
Thanks. I have not included any measures to defeat botnets. I wish there was, but I don't see there is any way to combat botnets that is compatible with a wide mining base.
There is a tradeoff for sure. Should we ask users to add 16 GB to their PC so coins are going to the users instead of the hackers and botnets?
Then the technical issue of designing a hash that can work at that memory scale.

Do you mean that putting a requirement of 16GB for mining will defeat botnets ?
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December 03, 2013, 08:06:00 AM
 #8

You are making progress towards CPU only, but as far as I see you haven't defeated botnets.
Thanks. I have not included any measures to defeat botnets. I wish there was, but I don't see there is any way to combat botnets that is compatible with a wide mining base.
There is a tradeoff for sure. Should we ask users to add 16 GB to their PC so coins are going to the users instead of the hackers and botnets?
Then the technical issue of designing a hash that can work at that memory scale.

Do you mean that putting a requirement of 16GB for mining will defeat botnets ?

It won't defeat all bots, yet it will greatly diminish their scale.

16 GB? ? ? ? ? Then the coin will lose huge audience of users, and you which stands up for such restrictions remove profit and you will escape on other coin.

Profit scales to the investment required for the difficulty as set by the free market. Actually the more investment, the more the coin is worth. You can verify this by correlating mining hash rate growth and bitcoin's price.

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December 03, 2013, 08:08:23 AM
 #9

16 GB? ? ? ? ? Then the coin will lose huge audience of users, and you which stands up for such restrictions remove profit and you will escape on other coin.

Yes but if a CPU coin have no botnets it is more valuable, so it could be seen as an investment for miners.
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December 03, 2013, 08:11:01 AM
 #10

A slow hash is a huge problem in terms of denial of service attacks on the mining nodes.

This is not an easily surmountable issue.

You won't solve it by thinking about a high-level algorithm for a few hours.

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December 03, 2013, 08:12:43 AM
 #11

Hey wait...

MemoryCoin = the coin that require memory
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December 03, 2013, 08:13:26 AM
 #12

Hey wait...

MemoryCoin = the coin that require memory

That is why I am asking him if his domain might be for sale at a high enough price, assuming he owns memorycoin.com and .org. And hopefully memcoin.* also.

Memory is generally available. It is an investment in an asset you use. The extra memory can be employed in a ramdisk when not mining to aid compiling speed and other tasks. ASICs not.

Edit: Memory is fungible, meaning you can sell/repurpose it in parts and separate from the PC.

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December 03, 2013, 08:17:26 AM
 #13

In something you are right. But understand huge audience in the world (I think not less than 80% of cars) has less than 16 GB of memory.
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December 03, 2013, 08:21:03 AM
 #14

In something you are right. But understand huge audience in the world (I think not less than 80% of cars) has less than 16 GB of memory.

Do we want to create a socialistic coin where everything is equal (e.g. ObamaCare requires men to carry maternity insurance) or do you want a capitalist coin where people are rewarded for effort, iniative, insight, and correct calculations on expenditures?

Motivating people to improve their computers and differentiate from botnets can't be nearly as bad as motivating them to buy useless ASIC bricks. When your ASIC is outdated, you can't repurpose it, e.g. if the Bitcoin ponzi crashes (okay you might not agree with that ponzi assertion, yet ASICs might become outdated if you prefer to mine MemoryCoin, selling used goods is sometimes lossy and time hassle losses too).

Edit: The advantage of a general purpose computer is it is general purpose, so economically it is not fragile and is a replacement good for many things even unforeseen.

Hope my feedback was helpful. Buzz me if I forget to come back and missed something important. Thanks for helping me refine my thoughts on ASICs.

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December 03, 2013, 08:27:40 AM
 #15

And you understand that the coin will be popular and to be in use only if it will be in use in the big mass of people?

Addition: Instead of in a limited narrow circle of mayner who will lift up complexity to heavens and will safely forget about it. (An example - TRC)
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December 03, 2013, 08:31:57 AM
 #16

A slow hash is a huge problem in terms of denial of service attacks on the mining nodes.

The hash looks like being 0.01 seconds - maybe faster with some optimization. That should be sufficiently fast.

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December 03, 2013, 08:37:26 AM
 #17

Do we want to create a socialistic coin where everything is equal (e.g. ObamaCare requires men to carry maternity insurance) or do you want a capitalist coin where people are rewarded for effort, iniative, insight, and correct calculations on expenditures?

I primarily concerned with creating a wide distribution - the hope is to do that by making mining unprofitable as a business (because of the capital acquisition cost, or capital rental cost), but profitable where capital is already a sunk cost (the PC, laptop, game console etc) and alternative acquisition costs are high (banking, regulation etc).

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December 03, 2013, 08:41:25 AM
 #18

That is why I am asking him if his domain might be for sale at a high enough price, assuming he owns memorycoin.com and .org. And hopefully memcoin.* also.

Just the .org - but not for sale.

It's an interesting idea regarding having very large memory requirements. It would certainly be better and more de-centralized than ASICs. For me though, it doesn't allow for the distribution I want.

I want to see news stories on TV about how simple it is for ordinary people to download software, switch it on, and start to earn coins.

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December 03, 2013, 08:42:49 AM
 #19

But if the mining isn't profitable, the small group of enthusiasts like us will be engaged in it. But for a large number to the people purchase of accessories just for the hell of it to possess them - a utopia
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December 03, 2013, 11:36:05 AM
 #20

regarding the botnet,

is it possible to force the client to only mine when 50% or more of the CPU is used? As far as I know botnets are working in the background with little CPU use to stay undetected, so if the client can only mine when the CPU is used with more then 50% it could stop botnets I hope Smiley
Is that technical possible?
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