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Pursuer
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May 09, 2018, 06:38:54 AM
 #21

I wish all Bitcoin h0lders could earn from network transactions and fees to be honest. Miners and big whales are the ones that benefit most from holding Bitcoin. Can you imagine if there was this idea that if we held Bitcoin we would earn a portion of the network transactions we would all benefit from the fees. So many new holders would invest in Bitcoin, but of course Bitcoin now has lost it's currency for the people feel.

it already exists and it is called Proof of Stake and it is a flawed way of distributing coins in my opinion because it is basically saying the rich should get richer and do that by performing nothing. basically sitting around and increasing their wealth.
with bitcoin and it s Proof of Work they have to invest and work to get paid! that is a much better design.

Proof of Stake Flaw was fixed by zeitcoin, by moving to an Ultra Low Inflation rate of .0005% per year.
This removed your rich getting richer flaw.  Smiley
All Proof of Stake Coins, act as Full Nodes distributing the ledger and processing transactions by staking.

Bitcoin has yet to fix the ever increasing Proof of Work input costs require to run the network.
At some point, if the price of the coin decreases below production cost, the miners shut down and the network freezes.

Proof of Stake Energy Efficiently protects it from that scenario.

if I were creating grains of sand but 1 grain per year that can not be called "low inflation" your beloved useless coin has already billions of coins in circulation and then "slowed down" the creation of it. it is already inflated.
not to mention that it used to (to use your own words) waste energy and be mined using PoW when that billions of coins were being mined in a very short period of time (3-4 months).
your coin is screaming flawed and its price of 2 satoshi is proving that!

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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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Zin-Zang
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Killing Lightning Network with a 51% Ignore attack


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May 09, 2018, 06:49:05 AM
Last edit: May 10, 2018, 10:30:59 PM by Zin-Zang
 #22

I wish all Bitcoin h0lders could earn from network transactions and fees to be honest. Miners and big whales are the ones that benefit most from holding Bitcoin. Can you imagine if there was this idea that if we held Bitcoin we would earn a portion of the network transactions we would all benefit from the fees. So many new holders would invest in Bitcoin, but of course Bitcoin now has lost it's currency for the people feel.

it already exists and it is called Proof of Stake and it is a flawed way of distributing coins in my opinion because it is basically saying the rich should get richer and do that by performing nothing. basically sitting around and increasing their wealth.
with bitcoin and it s Proof of Work they have to invest and work to get paid! that is a much better design.

Proof of Stake Flaw was fixed by zeitcoin, by moving to an Ultra Low Inflation rate of .0005% per year.
This removed your rich getting richer flaw.  Smiley
All Proof of Stake Coins, act as Full Nodes distributing the ledger and processing transactions by staking.

Bitcoin has yet to fix the ever increasing Proof of Work input costs require to run the network.
At some point, if the price of the coin decreases below production cost, the miners shut down and the network freezes.

Proof of Stake Energy Efficiently protects it from that scenario.

if I were creating grains of sand but 1 grain per year that can not be called "low inflation" your beloved useless coin has already billions of coins in circulation and then "slowed down" the creation of it. it is already inflated.
not to mention that it used to (to use your own words) waste energy and be mined using PoW when that billions of coins were being mined in a very short period of time (3-4 months).
your coin is screaming flawed and its price of 2 satoshi is proving that!


My coin price has been more stable than your coin , and your ignorance won't change that.
Also my coin has a large enough quantity to be used globally and not be priced out of normal people usage.
My coin still has a utility for micro payments, you know the utility your coin lost.

Proof of Work is a failed design, as many communities are starting to ban it because of it's insane energy drain.

Believe what you want, but if bitcoin core falls below $2000 at last count , it will be below production costs and then let's see what happens.

In 2020 , your PoW Miners take a massive hit, Half of their profits out the door.
But their input costs are only increasing.
http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
Quote
Reward-Drop ETA date: 29 May 2020 04:14:03

The Bitcoin block mining reward halves every 210,000 blocks, the coin reward will decrease from 12.5 to 6.25 coins.

FYI:  My so-called flawed Coin has Outperformed your coin as an investment during the same time period.  Cheesy
Price has grown verses the US $.
Sept 2014, 1 zeitcoin = $.000001
May  2018, 1 zeitcoin = $.000122

So in comparison to the US $,  (which to be honest, does anyone really care about anything else, because people cash out to fiat not bitcoin)    

Zeitcoin's Price has increased 122X verses the US $, it has been an outstanding investment.  Smiley


* If someone brought at the lows and sold at the highs, their rate of return was much higher than 122X. *


FYI:
During the exact same time period
Bitcoin only increased 18.86X verses the US $ and ZEITCOIN increased 122X verses the US $.

ZEITCOIN OUTPERFORMED BITCOIN by a factor of over 6X.


* Here is a little brain teaser for you , if ZEITCOIN increases at the same speed as the last time period. *
1 zeitcoin = $0.014884     in May 2022   (That is ~1½ US penny)
1 zeitcoin = $1.815848     in May 2026  (~ $2 dollars)
1 zeitcoin = $221.5334     in May 2030  (over $200 dollars)

I was Red Tagged because Lauda Blows Theymos to get back on DT
The rest are just lauda's personal butt monkeys=> Hhampuz , Vod, TMAN , achow101
NODEhaven (OP)
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May 09, 2018, 02:31:35 PM
 #23

I like the discussion and thanks for the thoughts.  For myself, this isn't a BCH versus BTC.  I am not against the goals of Lightning network.

Long term, just thinking what the knock-off effects of adoption on the lightning network versus actual BTC takes place.  Some monte carlo simulations could be built to better assess what the outcomes could be.

My thought this morning was that if there was a way to incorporate sidechain mining into the lightning network model.  This may have provide the ability to decentralize the channels themselves and allow miners to continue to collect the fees.

Of course this would require some work, but if the payment channel issue already solved then the addition of minable side-chains may be plausible.
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Presale is live!


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May 10, 2018, 12:38:33 PM
 #24

We need the lightening network to go into full effect if we ever have any hope of bitcoin and cryptocurrencis becoming the major form of currencies in the future because right now we have to deal with slow transaction times and high fees when transaction volumes increase which is not a viable option for day to day transactions so we need that lightening network.



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BarlowHayden
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May 30, 2018, 07:52:00 AM
 #25

Miners and big whales are the ones that benefit most from holding Bitcoin. Can you imagine if there was this idea that if we held Bitcoin we would earn a portion of the network transactions we would all benefit from the fees.
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May 30, 2018, 11:37:37 AM
 #26

i disagree to that saying, fees at first place should never be there, who's taking from who?
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July 07, 2018, 08:22:29 AM
 #27


I think everything has been arranged before. We should follow the general rule of the market. Births are dead.
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September 06, 2018, 12:24:36 PM
 #28

Miners and big whales are the ones that benefit most from holding Bitcoin. Can you imagine if there was this idea that if we held Bitcoin we would earn a portion of the network transactions.Can you imagine if there was this idea that if we held Bitcoin we would earn a portion of the network transactions.
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September 06, 2018, 12:38:57 PM
 #29

Its great i just registered!
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September 08, 2018, 07:41:34 AM
 #30

If Bitcoin can be compared to cash transactions, the Lightning Network is analogous to an online system of decentralized credit: traders exchange IOUs, keep running tabs on their expenses, and only use the blockchain when their interaction concludes. That’s a big difference from the sign-and-send procedure for an ordinary, on-chain transaction. More to the point, the Lightning Network requires active involvement from all involved. Each party needs to be online at the same time; you can’t just post a QR code on your website to ask for tips. A successful Lightning transaction requires choosing an optimal payment path from among thousands of intermediaries, and—since nodes are constantly flickering on and off—that path needs to be recalculated each time.
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September 22, 2018, 12:48:20 PM
 #31

In fact, LN requires transactions on the chain and scale on the best performing chain. It is not PoS so stop comparing LN with it. The churn rate is the annual percentage at which the customer stopped subscribing to the service. But basically once the Cartels Bank has run Bitcoin core Miners out of business and they are the only ones running asics to keep the chain virtually moving. Since they can move it for free, they will continue to consolidate their domination of Bitcoin Core.
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September 22, 2018, 01:30:26 PM
 #32

While this is a way to 'take the fees' from the miners

Since someone bumped this thread, it's worth pointing out that any "fees" earned from LN are probably going to be tiny in comparison to the kind of fees miners earn.  It's just not on the same scale.  And, as others have already pointed out, there will still be on-chain fees being collected with people opening and closing channels.

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