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Author Topic: Don't panic, China is NOT banning bitcoin  (Read 20734 times)
jl2012
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December 05, 2013, 09:01:04 AM
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The original announcement is here. I will translate it but please give me a few hours.

http://www.pbc.gov.cn/publish/goutongjiaoliu/524/2013/20131205153156832222251/20131205153156832222251_.html

In order to protect the property rights and interests of the public, to protect the legal status of the Chinese yuan, to prevent money laundering risks, and to maintain financial stability, the People's Bank of China, Ministry of Information Industry, China Banking Regulatory Commission, China Securities Regulatory Commission, and China Insurance Regulatory Commission jointly issued a "Notice on guard against the risk of bitcoin".

The "Notice" clarifies the status of bitcoin. It states bitcoin is not issued by a monetary authorities and is not a mandatory legal tender, and therefore is not a real currency. By its nature, bitcoin should be a specific virtual commodity, and does not have the legal status of currency, cannot and should not be used as currency on the market. However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.

The "Notice" requires, at this stage, financial institutions and payment institutions may not denominate product or service in bitcoin, may not trade bitcoin, may not act as a central counterparty in bitcoin trading, may not offer insurance product associated with bitcoin, may not provide direct or indirect bitcoin-related services to customers, including: registering, trading, settling, clearing services; accepting bitcoin  or use bitcoin as a clearing tool; trading bitcoin with CNY or foreign currencies; storing, escrowing, and mortgaging of bitcoin; issuing bitcoin-related financial instructments; using bitcoin as a investment target for trusts and funds.


TBC

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December 05, 2013, 09:05:42 AM
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Please, panic, I'm looking to score cheap coin!

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December 05, 2013, 09:08:26 AM
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My wife has been translating some of it to me and it doesn't sound very good (although I'd agree what we are seeing is some "panic" selling)..

It seems for individuals to buy or sell Bitcoins is fine but it's beginning to look like businesses will not be able to do business using BTC in China with the biggest concern for Chinese investors probably being whether btcchina could be forced to cease business (nothing was specifically stated about that or any other Chinese exchange though).

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bryant.coleman
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December 05, 2013, 09:09:19 AM
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It is looking quite worrisome to me:

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At this stage, financial institutions cannot denominate services and products in bitcoin, cannot trade bitcoin, cannot run bitcoin exchange, cannot provide bitcoin related services, cannot store bitcoin for clients, cannot establish bitcoin trust or fund, etc.

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December 05, 2013, 09:13:21 AM
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It is looking quite worrisome to me:

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At this stage, financial institutions cannot denominate services and products in bitcoin, cannot trade bitcoin, cannot run bitcoin exchange, cannot provide bitcoin related services, cannot store bitcoin for clients, cannot establish bitcoin trust or fund, etc.

Obviously, what were you expecting a "financial institution" to do?

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December 05, 2013, 09:14:47 AM
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It is looking quite worrisome to me:

Quote
At this stage, financial institutions cannot denominate services and products in bitcoin, cannot trade bitcoin, cannot run bitcoin exchange, cannot provide bitcoin related services, cannot store bitcoin for clients, cannot establish bitcoin trust or fund, etc.

Obviously, what were you expecting a "financial institution" to do?

Financial institution just doesn't include banks. It also includes Bitcoin exchanges. It will be quite bad if BTC-China is shut down.

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December 05, 2013, 09:14:59 AM
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there's too much money to be made the Chinese govt will find a way to make to all work, as key players in it will be recipients.

more interestingly this is a positive sign that the CNY govt feels it is *this* serious

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December 05, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
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It is looking quite worrisome to me:

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At this stage, financial institutions cannot denominate services and products in bitcoin, cannot trade bitcoin, cannot run bitcoin exchange, cannot provide bitcoin related services, cannot store bitcoin for clients, cannot establish bitcoin trust or fund, etc.

this is related to banks not to private businesses like shops or other

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December 05, 2013, 09:19:07 AM
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It is looking quite worrisome to me:

Quote
At this stage, financial institutions cannot denominate services and products in bitcoin, cannot trade bitcoin, cannot run bitcoin exchange, cannot provide bitcoin related services, cannot store bitcoin for clients, cannot establish bitcoin trust or fund, etc.

Obviously, what were you expecting a "financial institution" to do?

Financial institution just doesn't include banks. It also includes Bitcoin exchanges. It will be quite bad if BTC-China is shut down.

No, I read the statement, it DOESN'T include exchanges, they said explicitly exchanges must be registered(meaning no shutdown), with "telecom administration authority", which is in charge of the internet regulation, rather than financial regulation.

Nothing great was ever achieved without irrational exuberance.
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December 05, 2013, 09:20:43 AM
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No, I read the statement, it DOESN'T include exchanges, they said explicitly exchanges must be registered, with the"Ministry of Industry and Information Technology", which is in charge of the internet regulation, rather than financial regulation.

The statement was in Chinese. If you actually read it and if it is TRUE, then this is VERY GOOD NEWS.

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December 05, 2013, 09:21:51 AM
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My wife has been translating some of it to me and it doesn't sound very good (although I'd agree what we are seeing is some "panic" selling)..

It seems for individuals to buy or sell Bitcoins is fine but it's beginning to look like businesses will not be able to do business using BTC in China with the biggest concern for Chinese investors probably being whether btcchina could be forced to cease business (nothing was specifically stated about that or any other Chinese exchange though).


Have been keeping a track on transaction volumes and China was doing around 90,000 - 100,000 BTC currency transactions every 24 hours, vs the second biggest market in the USA which was doing around 1/3 the volume.

Today China is down to zero.

I don't think its panic selling. There doesn't seem to be any selling.

I might sell a few when the price hits $300/DRK
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December 05, 2013, 09:25:11 AM
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Have been keeping a track on transaction volumes and China was doing around 90,000 - 100,000 BTC currency transactions every 24 hours, vs the second biggest market in the USA which was doing around 1/3 the volume.

Today China is down to zero.

I don't think its panic selling. There doesn't seem to be any selling.

What are you saying? I have just logged in to BTC-China. For the last 60 mins alone, the trade volume stands at 23,264.58 BTC. 

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December 05, 2013, 09:30:16 AM
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No, I read the statement, it DOESN'T include exchanges, they said explicitly exchanges must be registered, with the"Ministry of Industry and Information Technology", which is in charge of the internet regulation, rather than financial regulation.

The statement was in Chinese. If you actually read it and if it is TRUE, then this is VERY GOOD NEWS.

I am a Chinese and I can confirm it is true that it DOESN'T include exchanges.

Actually, BTCChina is already a registered one.


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December 05, 2013, 09:31:45 AM
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China’s central bank barred financial institutions from handling Bitcoin transactions. That includes all transactions involving bitcoin. The banks won't process it. The same has happened with CBA, ANZ, WBC in Australia. The same has happened in the United States with many of the larger banks as well.

Apparently it's this line.

二、各金融机构和支付机构不得开展与比特币相关的业务

现阶段,各金融机构和支付机构不得以比特币为产品或服务定价,不得买卖或作为中央对手买卖比特币,不得承保与比特币相关的保险业务或将比特币纳入保险责任范围,不得直接或间接为客户提供其他与比特币相关的服务,包括:为客户提供比特币登记、交易、清算、结算等服务;接受比特币或以比特币作为支付结算工具;开展比特币与人民币及外币的兑换服务;开展比特币的储存、托管、抵押等业务;发行与比特币相关的金融产品;将比特币作为信托、基金等投资的投资标的等。

Why did you deliberately censor it?

It will bring down the exchanges because no one will be allowed to use an exchange. All liquidity will vanish and people will be unable to get rid of their coins easily.

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December 05, 2013, 09:33:44 AM
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...then they fight you

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December 05, 2013, 09:34:17 AM
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Why would anyone in China still want to buy bitcoins when this announcement demonstrates there is little hope for them there?

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December 05, 2013, 09:35:42 AM
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in other china news. baidu. the chinese search engine accepting bitcoin. has now reported the CEO is now worlds richest man. exceeding google and other company values too.

so if china was to block bitcoin. it will upset their richest citizen, so i do not believe they would want this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/meet-china-s-new-richest-man-0SlX524KSa~jqmYkejBlZw.html

if he buys more bitcoins. he will become even more richer in the long term, as will we all.

so dont panic

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December 05, 2013, 09:36:35 AM
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in other china news. baidu. the chinese search engine accpeting bitcoin. has now reported the CEO is now worlds richest man. exceeding google and other bompany values too

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/meet-china-s-new-richest-man-0SlX524KSa~jqmYkejBlZw.html

if he buys more bitcoins. he will become even more richer in the long term, as will we all.

so dont panic

Careful, Baidu only accepts bitcoin's for their anti-ddos software... You can't use it to shop on baidu or purchase anything else.

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December 05, 2013, 09:37:16 AM
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Bitstamp down 12%   BTCChina down 32%

I think the Chinese can read Chinese

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December 05, 2013, 09:37:22 AM
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China’s central bank barred financial institutions from handling Bitcoin transactions. That includes all transactions involving bitcoin. The banks won't process it. The same has happened with CBA, ANZ, WBC in Australia. The same has happened in the United States with many of the larger banks as well.

I saw this happen to Western Union and many of the money transmitters in the USA many years ago. Many were shutting down because they couldn't get bank accounts. The ones that could did ok.

Western Union's online service is through Western Union International Bank GmbH - its own bank.

Who wan't to set-up a co-op bank to licence exchanges and transmitters?

I might sell a few when the price hits $300/DRK
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December 05, 2013, 09:38:05 AM
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Why would anyone in China still want to buy bitcoins when this announcement demonstrates there is little hope for them there?
AFAIK, there are no restrictions on who can create an account on BTCCHina.

We don't know whether the selloff was actually caused by Chinese traders.

Even if you can create a BTC-China account. You won't be able to withdraw to a chinese bank account anymore. That breaks the idea of an online exchange. Only localbitcoins china would work.

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December 05, 2013, 09:40:24 AM
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Even if you can create a BTC-China account. You won't be able to withdraw to a chinese bank account anymore.
Is that really the case?

I wouldn't have expected Bobby Lee's statement to be as upbeat in that case.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions.html

Quote
“We’re happy to see the government start regulating the Bitcoin exchanges,” Chief Executive Officer Bobby Lee of BTC China, the largest Bitcoin exchange in the country, said today in a phone interview before the PBOC announcement was made. Regulations would be for “the good of the consumer,” he said. BTC is seeking recognition of the currency so it can be used to buy goods and services instead of being used for speculation, he said.

New rules for Bitcoin may not clarify Bitcoin’s legal status as regulators are divided over the issue, the people said. People are free to trade Bitcoin even as China refrains from recognizing it as a currency in the short term, PBOC’s Deputy Governor Yi Gang was cited by the 21st Century Business Herald as saying last month.

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December 05, 2013, 09:40:32 AM
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I work for an international company and i asked a chinese colleague to translate it for me. *(No literal translation at this moment)*

The bank is not supporting bitcoins, the risk has to be taken by the user if he decides to enter the bitcoin market. No guarantees are given for the losses made (as other investment most of the time have).

So it;s basically the same as it is in the netherlands for me with rabobank, they state: we do not support bitcoins use at own risk. we will not be liable for the damage made.

I don't think it's bad news just a warning for the general public by the bank of china.

If people want the literal translation a donation will be appreciated for the time the colleague needs to spend on it
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December 05, 2013, 09:41:56 AM
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Even if you can create a BTC-China account. You won't be able to withdraw to a chinese bank account anymore.
Is that really the case?

I wouldn't have expected Bobby Lee's statement to be as upbeat in that case.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions.html

Quote
“We’re happy to see the government start regulating the Bitcoin exchanges,” Chief Executive Officer Bobby Lee of BTC China, the largest Bitcoin exchange in the country, said today in a phone interview before the PBOC announcement was made. Regulations would be for “the good of the consumer,” he said. BTC is seeking recognition of the currency so it can be used to buy goods and services instead of being used for speculation, he said.

New rules for Bitcoin may not clarify Bitcoin’s legal status as regulators are divided over the issue, the people said. People are free to trade Bitcoin even as China refrains from recognizing it as a currency in the short term, PBOC’s Deputy Governor Yi Gang was cited by the 21st Century Business Herald as saying last month.

said today in a phone interview before the PBOC announcement was made

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December 05, 2013, 09:43:57 AM
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I work for an international company and i asked a chinese colleague to translate it for me. *(No literal translation at this moment)*

The bank is not supporting bitcoins, the risk has to be taken by the user if he decides to enter the bitcoin market. No guarantees are given for the losses made (as other investment most of the time have).

So it;s basically the same as it is in the netherlands for me with rabobank, they state: we do not support bitcoins use at own risk. we will not be liable for the damage made.

I don't think it's bad news just a warning for the general public by the bank of china.

If people want the literal translation a donation will be appreciated for the time the colleague needs to spend on it

At this stage, financial institutions cannot denominate services and products in bitcoin, cannot trade bitcoin, cannot run bitcoin exchange, cannot provide bitcoin related services, cannot store bitcoin for clients, cannot establish bitcoin trust or fund, etc.
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December 05, 2013, 09:45:15 AM
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Even if you can create a BTC-China account. You won't be able to withdraw to a chinese bank account anymore.
Is that really the case?

I wouldn't have expected Bobby Lee's statement to be as upbeat in that case.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions.html

Quote
“We’re happy to see the government start regulating the Bitcoin exchanges,” Chief Executive Officer Bobby Lee of BTC China, the largest Bitcoin exchange in the country, said today in a phone interview before the PBOC announcement was made. Regulations would be for “the good of the consumer,” he said. BTC is seeking recognition of the currency so it can be used to buy goods and services instead of being used for speculation, he said.

New rules for Bitcoin may not clarify Bitcoin’s legal status as regulators are divided over the issue, the people said. People are free to trade Bitcoin even as China refrains from recognizing it as a currency in the short term, PBOC’s Deputy Governor Yi Gang was cited by the 21st Century Business Herald as saying last month.

said today in a phone interview before the PBOC announcement was made

Who cares about what Bobby Lee thinks ? he's the CEO of the exchange , his opinion is irrelevant to me ...
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December 05, 2013, 09:46:08 AM
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Have been keeping a track on transaction volumes and China was doing around 90,000 - 100,000 BTC currency transactions every 24 hours, vs the second biggest market in the USA which was doing around 1/3 the volume.

Today China is down to zero.

I don't think its panic selling. There doesn't seem to be any selling.

What are you saying? I have just logged in to BTC-China. For the last 60 mins alone, the trade volume stands at 23,264.58 BTC. 

http://fiatleak.com/

I might sell a few when the price hits $300/DRK
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December 05, 2013, 09:47:49 AM
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Why would anyone in China still want to buy bitcoins when this announcement demonstrates there is little hope for them there?
AFAIK, there are no restrictions on who can create an account on BTCCHina.

We don't know whether the selloff was actually caused by Chinese traders.

Even if you can create a BTC-China account. You won't be able to withdraw to a chinese bank account anymore. That breaks the idea of an online exchange. Only localbitcoins china would work.


Really?

BTC-China is already a legitimate exchange. You can see the link on the bottom corner of the site "

You can also enquiry the official "Ministry of Industry and Information Technology" of China government.





As Bitcoin is treated as goods, there is no reason for banning banks from deposit and withdrawal money from the registered bitcoin exchanges.


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December 05, 2013, 09:50:10 AM
 #29

Why would anyone in China still want to buy bitcoins when this announcement demonstrates there is little hope for them there?
AFAIK, there are no restrictions on who can create an account on BTCCHina.

We don't know whether the selloff was actually caused by Chinese traders.

Even if you can create a BTC-China account. You won't be able to withdraw to a chinese bank account anymore. That breaks the idea of an online exchange. Only localbitcoins china would work.


Really?

BTC-China is already a legitimate exchange. You can see the link on the bottom corner of the site "

You can also enquiry the official "Ministry of Industry and Information Technology" of China government.





As Bitcoin is treated as goods, there is no reason for banning banks from deposit and withdrawal money from the registered bitcoin exchanges.




So its not a currency ?
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December 05, 2013, 09:55:30 AM
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We all knew things like this would happen eventually.
We'll get a lot more resistance in the future.

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December 05, 2013, 09:58:01 AM
 #31

Where did the old posts disappear to?

http://www.coindesk.com/commonwealth-bank-closes-coinjars-business-and-founders-personal-accounts/


As Bitcoin is treated as goods, there is no reason for banning banks from deposit and withdrawal money from the registered bitcoin exchanges.


No where does it explicity state that and I don't see how you can draw that inference from what is written there...

It is a great arbitrage opportunity for you, if you believe it. Just fly over to China tomorrow and you can make thousands.

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December 05, 2013, 10:02:50 AM
 #32

Apparently there needs to be an intelligence test for BTC.

"How many fucks would you give if any government said that holding BTC is a capital offense, or made any less severe statement?
A) Zero fucks
B) All the fucks

You chose B: you're too fucking stupid to use bitcoin, this software installation will now self-destruct."

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December 05, 2013, 10:04:39 AM
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Apparently there needs to be an intelligence test for BTC.

"How many fucks would you give if any government said that holding BTC is a capital offense, or made any less severe statement?
A) Zero fucks
B) All the fucks

You chose B: you're too fucking stupid to use bitcoin, this software installation will now self-destruct."

I didn't gave a fuck. I just made a few hundreds selling prior the crash and then rebuying it when it crashed to 900 on BTC-E. Now I'll just sit and wait for it to rise again, idiots panic selling.  Cheesy

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December 05, 2013, 10:07:21 AM
 #34

Apparently there needs to be an intelligence test for BTC.

"How many fucks would you give if any government said that holding BTC is a capital offense, or made any less severe statement?
A) Zero fucks
B) All the fucks

You chose B: you're too fucking stupid to use bitcoin, this software installation will now self-destruct."

I didn't gave a fuck. I just made a few hundreds selling prior the crash and then rebuying it when it crashed to 900 on BTC-E. Now I'll just sit and wait for it to rise again, idiots panic selling.  Cheesy


Agreed

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December 05, 2013, 10:27:54 AM
 #35

in other china news. baidu. the chinese search engine accpeting bitcoin. has now reported the CEO is now worlds richest man. exceeding google and other bompany values too

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/meet-china-s-new-richest-man-0SlX524KSa~jqmYkejBlZw.html

if he buys more bitcoins. he will become even more richer in the long term, as will we all.

so dont panic

Careful, Baidu only accepts bitcoin's for their anti-ddos software... You can't use it to shop on baidu or purchase anything else.

i know, but richard branson also only accepts bitcoins for limited amount of virgin galactic flights. all this news means that bitcoin is going to grow. the only thing that is happening is the standard first week of the month sell off. which has happened every month since april. and may become especially apparent in december as people prepare to buy FIAT paid christmas presents. do not think this is a crash that will cause long term suffering. its just a 'blip' in the grand scheme of things

Do not take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence and respect what is written here as both opinion and information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist
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December 05, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
 #36

会解读的人看不懂中文,会中文的人却解读错误。
哈哈,全仓抄底,等老外慢慢反应。

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December 05, 2013, 11:16:13 AM
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So can ordinary businesses (not banks) accept bitcoin as payment in China?  It looks like they can't from the translation.

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December 05, 2013, 11:22:08 AM
 #38

So can ordinary businesses (not banks) accept bitcoin as payment in China?  It looks like they can't from the translation.

Just checked with my wife - basically it is not clear from the Chinese (and most likely this is on purpose).

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December 05, 2013, 11:25:40 AM
 #39

i know, but richard branson also only accepts bitcoins for limited amount of virgin galactic flights. all this news means that bitcoin is going to grow. the only thing that is happening is the standard first week of the month sell off. which has happened every month since april. and may become especially apparent in december as people prepare to buy FIAT paid christmas presents. do not think this is a crash that will cause long term suffering. its just a 'blip' in the grand scheme of things

What?? Did you sell your account to someone else? You've always been the biggest cynic in this forum. I can't believe you are being optimistic.

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December 05, 2013, 11:27:27 AM
 #40

So can ordinary businesses (not banks) accept bitcoin as payment in China?  It looks like they can't from the translation.

Just checked with my wife - basically it is not clear from the Chinese (and most likely this is on purpose).

yes,It's a little vague.But I deem the news good.
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December 05, 2013, 11:28:54 AM
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Yeah just seems like a warning. This crash is simply people wanting to make a quick buck with the new news, sell high buy low while they can.

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December 05, 2013, 11:31:13 AM
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Is a good news in some way, since there will be less high profile buyers which speculate and sell millions in seconds devaluating the money.

What is going to happen is that this week the price will be low, and at the end it will slowly grow again, since bitcoin has been made for us, not for banks.

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December 05, 2013, 11:31:46 AM
 #43

Yeah just seems like a warning. This crash is simply people wanting to make a quick buck with the new news, sell high buy low while they can.

I think you could be on the money - if btcchina is still working fine next week then I think the price will be back up to where it was.

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December 05, 2013, 11:33:39 AM
 #44

Okay foreigners please wait as long as you wish, I am gonna do as what one of my compatriots said in this thread-全仓抄底. Cool

Nothing great was ever achieved without irrational exuberance.
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December 05, 2013, 11:34:44 AM
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Yeah just seems like a warning. This crash is simply people wanting to make a quick buck with the new news, sell high buy low while they can.

I think you could be on the money - if btcchina is still working fine next week then I think the price will be back up to where it was.



Exactly right, also why is anyone surprised by a bank not warming to bitcoin, this changes nothing, btc will still rise, maybe slower if the big speculators drop out but still the trend will be upwards, imho.



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December 05, 2013, 11:38:51 AM
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How ironic it is that China worries about the financial stability of Bitcoin, and then causes instability in the Bitcoin market by making potentially ambiguous/misleading announcements.

Web developer proficient in JavaScript, PHP and MySQL. Practical knowledge netsec and crypto. First time offering my services publicly, so willing to provide a discount from the usual market rate. Any queries, please send me a PM!
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December 05, 2013, 11:39:43 AM
 #47

全仓抄底

Yup - a good chance to make money now. Smiley

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December 05, 2013, 11:53:49 AM
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the People's Bank of China, Ministry of Information Industry, China Banking Regulatory Commission, China Securities Regulatory Commission, and China Insurance Regulatory Commission jointly issued a "Notice on guard against the risk of bitcoin". [...] The "Notice" clarifies the status of bitcoin. It states [...] general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?
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December 05, 2013, 11:55:17 AM
 #49

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.

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December 05, 2013, 11:56:08 AM
 #50

Bitcoins will recover super fast from the initial selloff.  I think people in china were mostly selling in fear that their exchange would close and they would lose all money.  Once they realise this isn't so, people will jump back in to start a buying spree, which will raise the prices higher than before.  And in the US, they just follow the chinese market... so yea.

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December 05, 2013, 11:56:41 AM
 #51

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.
Who said merchants were not allowed to accept it as currency?
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December 05, 2013, 11:56:53 AM
 #52

It's legal speak. You people have studied law right? Most of us here are liberals, so we should understand how the law works. The law is open for interpretation, but in China it's apparently worse. Due to the fact the flexibility part is skewed towards the CPC.

http://finance.sina.com.cn/money/forex/20131205/174217543100.shtml
http://news.cntv.cn/2013/12/05/ARTI1386234766920596.shtml

Is BTC-China one of those institutions that is mentioned? That is what is unclear. The other parts are crystal clear.

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December 05, 2013, 11:59:37 AM
 #53

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.

That depends on how we interpret the institution part... For now, they will probably be allowed to accept until one day the CPC decide to take your money away. That's the risk, but it's a risk that is alright to be taking. It might require some bribes from the merchants, as well as Bobby will have to do some networking to ensure that they don't clamp down.

For now I see it as a grey area.

As for the person laughing at the foreigners. I bet you don't even know how to interpret it. You just think you do. None of us know.

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December 05, 2013, 12:00:42 PM
 #54

It's legal speak. You people have studied law right? Most of us here are liberals, so we should understand how the law works. The law is open for interpretation, but in China it's apparently worse. Due to the fact the flexibility part is skewed towards the CPC.

http://finance.sina.com.cn/money/forex/20131205/174217543100.shtml
http://news.cntv.cn/2013/12/05/ARTI1386234766920596.shtml

Is BTC-China one of those institutions that is mentioned? That is what is unclear. The other parts are crystal clear.
BTCChina is definitely not a financial institution!
BTC trading will not be affected at all.
Guys, don't panic.

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December 05, 2013, 12:07:40 PM
 #55

SELL SELL SELL!  It's gonna tank!  It's gonna crash and burn!  Sell now or you lose EVERYTHING!

(Okay, I'm just saying that cause I sold at $1200 and want to buy back and take a profit.)

Seriously, though, this may actually be a good thing.  You now have lots of Chinese with lots of Bitcoin and it's going to cramp their style not to be able to deal with their usual banks.  They might (gasp!) actually have an incentive to SPEND their BTC on actual products.  So anyone doing business in Bitcoin may be able to tap an enormous source of actual people doing actual business.

And maybe some people will realize that yes, the banks can go fuck themselves anyway.  This current stage of BTC to fiat and back again should come to an end at some point.
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December 05, 2013, 12:22:02 PM
 #56

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.
Who said merchants were not allowed to accept it as currency?

From the 'human translation' on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

"Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with money, and it cannot and should not be used as money on the market."  That could be interpreted to mean that any Chinese business should not treat bitcoin as money i.e. not accept it as payment like they would if it were a currency.

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December 05, 2013, 12:29:23 PM
 #57

If it's not a big deal then why China Telecom dropped their BTC acceptance?

http://js.189.cn/w2014 - here they used to explain the bitcoin deal and how it works. Now no mention of bitcoin.
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December 05, 2013, 12:41:06 PM
 #58

China is the largest exporter in the world, why people think that they will allow companies/financial institutions to use bitcoin as currency . If they do,They won't be able to track transactions,charge tax etc.

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December 05, 2013, 12:44:04 PM
 #59

Please, panic, I'm looking to score cheap coin!

Yes people, please do!

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December 05, 2013, 12:47:33 PM
 #60

Okay foreigners please wait as long as you wish, I am gonna do as what one of my compatriots said in this thread-全仓抄底. Cool



Yes... I too will position my hunters.
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December 05, 2013, 01:00:28 PM
 #61

No panic? Meh, i wanted to quickly buy single digit coins  Cheesy
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December 05, 2013, 01:38:29 PM
 #62

the main concern is if china gov begin to interfere with btcchina. china gov is very concern about money laundry/tax avoidance, and this is what bitcoin is all about in china, they are using bitcoin to move their money outside mainland.

this freaking news means china start to worry about bitcoin and they may take another unpredicted action in next few days/weeks.

panic is very natural now if you know what china gov can do, they do not need much bureaucracy to decide anything.
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December 05, 2013, 03:06:00 PM
 #63

It needs to cool down for a while to adjust.

Just need to be cautions if you are not early bird such as not accessing 28nm miners or the first era users.

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December 05, 2013, 03:28:59 PM
 #64

China is not banning bitcoin, but they say that it is not a currency and that it shouldn't be used as such.
I don't know if everyone should panic but i wouldn't want to be bitpay today  Tongue
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December 05, 2013, 03:44:18 PM
 #65

So can ordinary businesses (not banks) accept bitcoin as payment in China?  It looks like they can't from the translation.

Just checked with my wife - basically it is not clear from the Chinese (and most likely this is on purpose).


This is what i would like to know too.
So would this mean that individuals and businesses could not list items for sale in bitcoin on sites like the "former bitmit" if the price was to be paid in BTC only?

Any clarification/opinions would be gratefully welcomed!


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December 05, 2013, 03:51:08 PM
 #66

cashing out at Bank of China might experience a transfer delay.
goxed
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December 05, 2013, 04:23:50 PM
 #67

Will wait 1 week and see what's going to happen Smiley Now the price is good
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December 05, 2013, 04:25:54 PM
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Exactly right, also why is anyone surprised by a bank not warming to bitcoin, this changes nothing, btc will still rise, maybe slower if the big speculators drop out but still the trend will be upwards, imho.

People's bank of china is not yet another bank. It is china. Also the notice is co signed by ministers, committees etc. and frankly you can't get something more official than that.
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December 05, 2013, 04:30:35 PM
 #69

BTC China when trying CNY cash out at Bank of China:
contact system service when requesting SMS.
goxed
then the value should go up, isnt it?
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December 05, 2013, 05:10:05 PM
 #70

As far as I am aware there is no problem at all cashing out via Tenpay now (Alipay is no longer an option though from what I gather).

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December 05, 2013, 05:18:23 PM
 #71

I totally agree that China is not banning BTC but with China's interference int he economy and banking you can't help but think they disapprove of it and they could possibly take other negative steps for BTC in the future.

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December 05, 2013, 05:21:00 PM
 #72

Excellent news.  When the government bans or puts the breaks on something that is in great demand by the people, that something tends to go underground - and be valued EVEN MORE highly.

Think booze during the American Prohibition - there were great profits to be made
Think drugs during the modern American durg Prohbition - there are great profits to be made.

What this tells me is the banking industry of that country is nervous about what Bitcoin means to them.  These banksters are putting pressure on governments to curb bitcoin because they see the writing on the wall.

These means bitcoin is onto something.  Something big.  You'd be a fool to cash out now from what could be a once in a lifetime chance to be financially wealthy and free due to the game changer known as bicoin.

Excellent news, indeed!

Sincerely I am, Johnny BitcoinSeed .com
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December 05, 2013, 05:35:57 PM
 #73

Just did an CNY withdraw to Bank of China from BTCChina, lets see if it arrives on Friday.
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December 05, 2013, 05:37:11 PM
 #74

Excellent news.  When the government bans or puts the breaks on something that is in great demand by the people, that something tends to go underground - and be valued EVEN MORE highly.

Think booze during the American Prohibition - there were great profits to be made
Think drugs during the modern American durg Prohbition - there are great profits to be made.

You are very skilfully ignoring the negative points. Yes.... lot of profits were made during the prohibition era. But who gained? It was the criminals who gained from it, while the common people suffered. Same will happen here. Criminals will take over BTC trading. Ordinary people like us will be pushed out.

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December 05, 2013, 05:51:01 PM
 #75

Just did an CNY withdraw to Bank of China from BTCChina, lets see if it arrives on Friday.


i afraid that you wont see it forever.  because your money directly and indirectly related to bitcoin transaction since banks banned btc.

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December 06, 2013, 11:35:01 AM
 #76

they  still not having enough BTC, so they pulled down the price of it, and buying cheaper

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December 06, 2013, 11:56:43 AM
 #77

Not sure if this has been linked here already, but I thought it might be worth it. Things aren't quite so negative als the panic sellers earlier this week seemed to think:

http://www.techinasia.com/panic-chinas-regulation-bitcoin-leaves-room-optimism/

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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December 06, 2013, 07:23:21 PM
 #78

Not sure if this has been linked here already, but I thought it might be worth it. Things aren't quite so negative als the panic sellers earlier this week seemed to think:

http://www.techinasia.com/panic-chinas-regulation-bitcoin-leaves-room-optimism/

Def a good read.

Here's one from the other side of the world:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/12/05/bitcoin-china-pboc/3876727/

Thank you

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December 07, 2013, 04:37:24 AM
 #79

Just did an CNY withdraw to Bank of China from BTCChina, lets see if it arrives on Friday.


i afraid that you wont see it forever.  because your money directly and indirectly related to bitcoin transaction since banks banned btc.

China allowed bitcoin exchanges to operate but with strict rules. That means that somehow people must move money in and out.
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December 07, 2013, 05:24:52 AM
 #80

ok, since official China considers Bitcoin as a virtual commodity at the moment and from looks of it Bitcoin cannot be used as money over there, how does official China treat barter? can one individual or business entity do barter trading with another and declare income and pay taxes off of it like it's required over here in the US?
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December 07, 2013, 05:56:10 AM
 #81

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.
Who said merchants were not allowed to accept it as currency?

From the 'human translation' on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

"Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with money currency, and it cannot and should not be used as money currency on the market."

Note the important correction.

That could be interpreted to mean that any Chinese business should not treat bitcoin as money currency i.e. not accept it as payment like they would if it were a currency.

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

I can't find anything in this document that specifically bans the bolded assumption.

This document is merely stating that Bitcoin will not be allowed to circulate widely as a currency to compete with RMB, because all volatility risk will remain outside the financial sector in the private parties and exchanges. It is very free market way of saying Bitcoin will not be backed by the government's system. There is nothing stopping businesses from accepting it, and converting it to RMB via a registered exchange.

The government will not likely clamp down on small scale acceptance, as it presents no credible threat to RMB. As we all see now, businesses are forced to convert to fiat immediately if they have significant expenses in fiat, i.e. Bitcoin presents no threat to fiat at the moment because of its volatility and the need for businesses to have fiat to pay their employees and operating expenses, etc..

Note small scale in China is big scale relative to current Bitcoin market size given the large population. Bitcoin is only in the tens of $billion range of market cap. Fiat finance is in the hundreds of $trillions. Bitcoin can grow immensely while still being small scale relative to fiat finance market size.

Whereas, (small) businesses could keep their profits in BTC, as easydns did (PenAndPaper username). Of course big businesses can't because the Bitcoin market cap is too small any way, besides big businesses are not into such risk.

The document is saying that non-financial entities must accept risk of holding BTC.

So this does not to stop the trajectory of Bitcoin in China. Exchanges can still operate and are not prevented from having a bank account to operate with. The document only bans financial institutions (and payment providers) from being market makers, underwriting, insurance, etc. In other words, all the risk and market making must be done by individuals and exchanges.

What they have done is simply kept Bitcoin in the free market-- the wild west.

This is an extremely bullish outcome. They have clarified that Bitcoin is legal for its small scale free market functions.

The Baidu thing is very suspicious. They accepted for a very small portion of their business which was misunderstood and caused a euphoria, then they dump when people misunderstand the ruling above, in order to create panic. Looks like some manipulators are getting rich on BTC pump & dump & rebuy on the dump.

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December 07, 2013, 08:21:53 AM
 #82

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.
How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.
Who said merchants were not allowed to accept it as currency?

From the 'human translation' on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

"Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with money currency, and it cannot and should not be used as money currency on the market."

Note the important correction.

That could be interpreted to mean that any Chinese business should not treat bitcoin as money currency i.e. not accept it as payment like they would if it were a currency.

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

I can't find anything in this document that specifically bans the bolded assumption.

This document is merely stating that Bitcoin will not be allowed to circulate widely as a currency to compete with RMB, because all volatility risk will remain outside the financial sector in the private parties and exchanges. It is very free market way of saying Bitcoin will not be backed by the government's system. There is nothing stopping businesses from accepting it, and converting it to RMB via a registered exchange.

The government will not likely clamp down on small scale acceptance, as it presents no credible threat to RMB. As we all see now, businesses are forced to convert to fiat immediately if they have significant expenses in fiat, i.e. Bitcoin presents no threat to fiat at the moment because of its volatility and the need for businesses to have fiat to pay their employees and operating expenses, etc..

Note small scale in China is big scale relative to current Bitcoin market size given the large population. Bitcoin is only in the tens of $billion range of market cap. Fiat finance is in the hundreds of $trillions. Bitcoin can grow immensely while still being small scale relative to fiat finance market size.

Whereas, (small) businesses could keep their profits in BTC, as easydns did (PenAndPaper username). Of course big businesses can't because the Bitcoin market cap is too small any way, besides big businesses are not into such risk.

The document is saying that non-financial entities must accept risk of holding BTC.

So this does not to stop the trajectory of Bitcoin in China. Exchanges can still operate and are not prevented from having a bank account to operate with. The document only bans financial institutions (and payment providers) from being market makers, underwriting, insurance, etc. In other words, all the risk and market making must be done by individuals and exchanges.

What they have done is simply kept Bitcoin in the free market-- the wild west.

This is an extremely bullish outcome. They have clarified that Bitcoin is legal for its small scale free market functions.

The Baidu thing is very suspicious. They accepted for a very small portion of their business which was misunderstood and caused a euphoria, then they dump when people misunderstand the ruling above, in order to create panic. Looks like some manipulators are getting rich on BTC pump & dump & rebuy on the dump.

Yes, I fully agree with you. China Government simply clarified its point of view about BTC, stating it is NOT a fiat currency, and "legalized" BTC as a virtual commodity among private people.
So People is free to buy and sell their private commodities where they prefer, but Banks and financial institutions cannot consider BTC as a fiat currency.

In my personal point of view, China Government, just "Legalized BTC" and it is the first government in the world who really OFFICIALLY defined really virtual nature of BTC, as a free virtual commodity, and its value can only be established by the market, on other terms by private people who buys and sells it.
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December 07, 2013, 12:16:01 PM
 #83

Also the German government has accepted bitcoin as legal currency recently.

RT TV news report: http://youtu.be/okNhH7EoV6I

If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

300MH/s KNC scrypt miner Click here: KnC Miner over 300MH/s Scrypt miner - PRE-ORDER NOW OPEN **shipping Q3/Q4 2014** (updated 16-Apr-2014)
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December 07, 2013, 12:37:30 PM
 #84

i'm really torn. was going to buy some before the news. is the bitcoin going to recover? should i get in now?
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December 07, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
 #85

i'm really torn. was going to buy some before the news. is the bitcoin going to recover? should i get in now?

Yes, this is probably an excellent time to enter. You can wait for even lover prices but trying to catch a falling knife is a fools game.

Bitcoin will allways recover!
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December 07, 2013, 12:59:55 PM
 #86


If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

Not that sure about Germany. Since they are a part of the EU, the European banking rules have to be obeyed. The EU can ask Germany anytime to withdraw the recognition of BTC.

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December 07, 2013, 02:33:23 PM
 #87

China is not banning BTC. They are mining it like crazy. Check this pic of Chinese Underground mining operation I found.

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December 07, 2013, 02:35:11 PM
 #88

Also the German government has accepted bitcoin as legal currency recently.
merv77

It was recognized as private money not legal tender/currency, but its still good news.

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December 07, 2013, 06:28:24 PM
 #89

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

I can't find anything in this document that specifically bans the bolded assumption.

The problem is that the amateurs over at baidu don't share the same high iq as you and they removed bitcoins from their site.
Apply for a job in their law department asap and explain them the law!
If they reject your application tell them the story about your high iq.
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December 08, 2013, 02:45:35 AM
 #90

Looks like Baidu really has friends in high places to give them a headsup on the CPC policies!

Who is laughing now?

Either way, it looks like we should be reading legal documents conservatively and taking a look at the CPC's goals.

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December 08, 2013, 12:10:45 PM
 #91


If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

Not that sure about Germany. Since they are a part of the EU, the European banking rules have to be obeyed. The EU can ask Germany anytime to withdraw the recognition of BTC.

Frankly, it is more likely that Germany will tell the EU what to do than the other way around.  Germany is the central financial powerhouse of the EU.  If they take their ball and go home, it's game over.

They're not likely to escalate the situation to that point, though, because if the EU decides to do something stupid and Germany says don't do that, Germany is the party holding all the good cards.

Both Greeks and Cypriots in the recent shenanigans have both (IMO correctly) placed the blame on Germany for influencing the direction the EU took.
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December 08, 2013, 01:48:29 PM
 #92

btc price has retreated back to around its value on November 18th, that's 3 whole weeks   Cheesy

Whoever sold thinking Bitcoin is banned in china - shame on you  Grin
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December 08, 2013, 02:29:32 PM
 #93

btc price has retreated back to around its value on November 18th, that's 3 whole weeks   Cheesy

Whoever sold thinking Bitcoin is banned in china - shame on you  Grin

I sold thinking the price was about to go down and that when it did, I could buy back. 

Feels good, man.
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December 08, 2013, 06:24:26 PM
 #94


If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

Not that sure about Germany. Since they are a part of the EU, the European banking rules have to be obeyed. The EU can ask Germany anytime to withdraw the recognition of BTC.

First of all Germany didn't recognized bitcoin as a currency. Also if germany decides something then the most probable thing to happen inside the EU is that everyone will just copy paste their law.
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December 17, 2013, 04:15:28 AM
 #95

Well, it's happening, my prediction came true.

Looks like the payment exchanges and financial institutions will not be allowed to assist with bitcoin related transactions.

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January 19, 2014, 09:10:04 AM
 #96

Not really on topic, but couldn't find a BTC China exchange topic.

Can us foreigners signup with BTC China? Does the exchange offer a referral based system like other exchanges? Any major differences between BTC China and other major exchanges?

Btc Tips 1QFVyisSy39UKbRWAbiAwdGcypZWuCFmgJ
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January 19, 2014, 09:46:01 AM
 #97

Not really on topic, but couldn't find a BTC China exchange topic.

Can us foreigners signup with BTC China? Does the exchange offer a referral based system like other exchanges? Any major differences between BTC China and other major exchanges?

Yes foreigners can use BTC China but unless you are a foreigner living in China I don't know how you would be able to get rmb to buy their bitcoin vouchers and or rmb to make a cash deposit with them.  So yes foreigners can have accounts, but as far as I know you'd need to be in China for it to be realistically viable.  Currently the two deposit options are buying a btc through an approved seller,  which you would need an account on those sites to do so,  have rmb to give those sellers, as well as be able to read/speak chinese to know how to buy the voucher, youd also need a chinese bank account to easily send one of the authorized reseller their money.   The second deposit option on btcchina is a cash depoist, for that you most certainly need to be in China to acomplish that.

Currently no major differences imo than other exchanges, they use to offer 0 fees on trasnactions but they stopped doing that.  That was really what set them apart and launched them into being the #1 exchange in the world briefly imo.

Hourly bitcoin faucet with a gambling twist !  http://freebitco.in/?r=106463
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January 19, 2014, 11:14:09 AM
 #98

Not really on topic, but couldn't find a BTC China exchange topic.

Can us foreigners signup with BTC China? Does the exchange offer a referral based system like other exchanges? Any major differences between BTC China and other major exchanges?

Yes foreigners can use BTC China but unless you are a foreigner living in China I don't know how you would be able to get rmb to buy their bitcoin vouchers and or rmb to make a cash deposit with them.  So yes foreigners can have accounts, but as far as I know you'd need to be in China for it to be realistically viable.  Currently the two deposit options are buying a btc through an approved seller,  which you would need an account on those sites to do so,  have rmb to give those sellers, as well as be able to read/speak chinese to know how to buy the voucher, youd also need a chinese bank account to easily send one of the authorized reseller their money.   The second deposit option on btcchina is a cash depoist, for that you most certainly need to be in China to acomplish that.

Currently no major differences imo than other exchanges, they use to offer 0 fees on trasnactions but they stopped doing that.  That was really what set them apart and launched them into being the #1 exchange in the world briefly imo.

so no btc deposits?

Btc Tips 1QFVyisSy39UKbRWAbiAwdGcypZWuCFmgJ
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January 19, 2014, 11:22:04 AM
 #99


My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.
This is just about the best resume I've seen here on bitcointalk. 

The part I am having trouble with is: to whom did this appearance come?  You say "I appear...".  Does this mean one day you started analyzing law - and to you it appeared you had a high IQ?  It seems to follow that you would agree with your own analysis.  How did this appearance come to you? 

To me, you appear to have flimsy basis for promoting your legal theory.  I am sure your big-shot father would agree.  Smiley

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