Don't panic, China is NOT banning bitcoin

[AnonyMint]

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.

How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.

Who said merchants were not allowed to accept it as currency?

From the 'human translation' on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

"Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with money currency, and it cannot and should not be used as money currency on the market."

Note the important correction.

That could be interpreted to mean that any Chinese business should not treat bitcoin as money currency i.e. not accept it as payment like they would if it were a currency.

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

I can't find anything in this document that specifically bans the bolded assumption.

This document is merely stating that Bitcoin will not be allowed to circulate widely as a currency to compete with RMB, because all volatility risk will remain outside the financial sector in the private parties and exchanges. It is very free market way of saying Bitcoin will not be backed by the government's system. There is nothing stopping businesses from accepting it, and converting it to RMB via a registered exchange.

The government will not likely clamp down on small scale acceptance, as it presents no credible threat to RMB. As we all see now, businesses are forced to convert to fiat immediately if they have significant expenses in fiat, i.e. Bitcoin presents no threat to fiat at the moment because of its volatility and the need for businesses to have fiat to pay their employees and operating expenses, etc..

Note small scale in China is big scale relative to current Bitcoin market size given the large population. Bitcoin is only in the tens of $billion range of market cap. Fiat finance is in the hundreds of $trillions. Bitcoin can grow immensely while still being small scale relative to fiat finance market size.

Whereas, (small) businesses could keep their profits in BTC, as easydns did (PenAndPaper username). Of course big businesses can't because the Bitcoin market cap is too small any way, besides big businesses are not into such risk.

The document is saying that non-financial entities must accept risk of holding BTC.

So this does not to stop the trajectory of Bitcoin in China. Exchanges can still operate and are not prevented from having a bank account to operate with. The document only bans financial institutions (and payment providers) from being market makers, underwriting, insurance, etc. In other words, all the risk and market making must be done by individuals and exchanges.

What they have done is simply kept Bitcoin in the free market-- the wild west.

This is an extremely bullish outcome. They have clarified that Bitcoin is legal for its small scale free market functions.

The Baidu thing is very suspicious. They accepted for a very small portion of their business which was misunderstood and caused a euphoria, then they dump when people misunderstand the ruling above, in order to create panic. Looks like some manipulators are getting rich on BTC pump & dump & rebuy on the dump.

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[corsaro]

However, general public may trade bitcoin on the internet by taking their own risk.

How is that not uber-bullish?

Because if merchants aren't allowed to accept it as currency then that is a major blow for bitcoin adoption in China.  However it's not clear to me if that is the case.

Who said merchants were not allowed to accept it as currency?

From the 'human translation' on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

"Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with money currency, and it cannot and should not be used as money currency on the market."

Note the important correction.

That could be interpreted to mean that any Chinese business should not treat bitcoin as money currency i.e. not accept it as payment like they would if it were a currency.

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

I can't find anything in this document that specifically bans the bolded assumption.

This document is merely stating that Bitcoin will not be allowed to circulate widely as a currency to compete with RMB, because all volatility risk will remain outside the financial sector in the private parties and exchanges. It is very free market way of saying Bitcoin will not be backed by the government's system. There is nothing stopping businesses from accepting it, and converting it to RMB via a registered exchange.

The government will not likely clamp down on small scale acceptance, as it presents no credible threat to RMB. As we all see now, businesses are forced to convert to fiat immediately if they have significant expenses in fiat, i.e. Bitcoin presents no threat to fiat at the moment because of its volatility and the need for businesses to have fiat to pay their employees and operating expenses, etc..

Note small scale in China is big scale relative to current Bitcoin market size given the large population. Bitcoin is only in the tens of $billion range of market cap. Fiat finance is in the hundreds of $trillions. Bitcoin can grow immensely while still being small scale relative to fiat finance market size.

Whereas, (small) businesses could keep their profits in BTC, as easydns did (PenAndPaper username). Of course big businesses can't because the Bitcoin market cap is too small any way, besides big businesses are not into such risk.

The document is saying that non-financial entities must accept risk of holding BTC.

So this does not to stop the trajectory of Bitcoin in China. Exchanges can still operate and are not prevented from having a bank account to operate with. The document only bans financial institutions (and payment providers) from being market makers, underwriting, insurance, etc. In other words, all the risk and market making must be done by individuals and exchanges.

What they have done is simply kept Bitcoin in the free market-- the wild west.

This is an extremely bullish outcome. They have clarified that Bitcoin is legal for its small scale free market functions.

The Baidu thing is very suspicious. They accepted for a very small portion of their business which was misunderstood and caused a euphoria, then they dump when people misunderstand the ruling above, in order to create panic. Looks like some manipulators are getting rich on BTC pump & dump & rebuy on the dump.

Yes, I fully agree with you. China Government simply clarified its point of view about BTC, stating it is NOT a fiat currency, and "legalized" BTC as a virtual commodity among private people.
So People is free to buy and sell their private commodities where they prefer, but Banks and financial institutions cannot consider BTC as a fiat currency.

In my personal point of view, China Government, just "Legalized BTC" and it is the first government in the world who really OFFICIALLY defined really virtual nature of BTC, as a free virtual commodity, and its value can only be established by the market, on other terms by private people who buys and sells it.

[merv77]

Also the German government has accepted bitcoin as legal currency recently.

RT TV news report: http://youtu.be/okNhH7EoV6I

If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

[liexel]

i'm really torn. was going to buy some before the news. is the bitcoin going to recover? should i get in now?

[Apraksin]

i'm really torn. was going to buy some before the news. is the bitcoin going to recover? should i get in now?

Yes, this is probably an excellent time to enter. You can wait for even lover prices but trying to catch a falling knife is a fools game.

Bitcoin will allways recover!

[bryant.coleman]

If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

Not that sure about Germany. Since they are a part of the EU, the European banking rules have to be obeyed. The EU can ask Germany anytime to withdraw the recognition of BTC.

[BTCuserz]

China is not banning BTC. They are mining it like crazy. Check this pic of Chinese Underground mining operation I found.

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=s7.postimg.org/4fqkdtcqz/china_internet_jpeg.jpg&fnr

[algaidaman]

Also the German government has accepted bitcoin as legal currency recently.
merv77

It was recognized as private money not legal tender/currency, but its still good news.

[PenAndPaper]

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

I can't find anything in this document that specifically bans the bolded assumption.

The problem is that the amateurs over at baidu don't share the same high iq as you and they removed bitcoins from their site.
Apply for a job in their law department asap and explain them the law!
If they reject your application tell them the story about your high iq.

[lindatess]

Looks like Baidu really has friends in high places to give them a headsup on the CPC policies!

Who is laughing now?

Either way, it looks like we should be reading legal documents conservatively and taking a look at the CPC's goals.

[darkmule]

If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

Not that sure about Germany. Since they are a part of the EU, the European banking rules have to be obeyed. The EU can ask Germany anytime to withdraw the recognition of BTC.

Frankly, it is more likely that Germany will tell the EU what to do than the other way around.  Germany is the central financial powerhouse of the EU.  If they take their ball and go home, it's game over.

They're not likely to escalate the situation to that point, though, because if the EU decides to do something stupid and Germany says don't do that, Germany is the party holding all the good cards.

Both Greeks and Cypriots in the recent shenanigans have both (IMO correctly) placed the blame on Germany for influencing the direction the EU took.

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

btc price has retreated back to around its value on November 18th, that's 3 whole weeks   

Whoever sold thinking Bitcoin is banned in china - shame on you 

[darkmule]

btc price has retreated back to around its value on November 18th, that's 3 whole weeks   

Whoever sold thinking Bitcoin is banned in china - shame on you 

I sold thinking the price was about to go down and that when it did, I could buy back. 

Feels good, man.

[PenAndPaper]

If Germany can accept bitcoin I don't see why other countries don't do the same.

merv77

Not that sure about Germany. Since they are a part of the EU, the European banking rules have to be obeyed. The EU can ask Germany anytime to withdraw the recognition of BTC.

First of all Germany didn't recognized bitcoin as a currency. Also if germany decides something then the most probable thing to happen inside the EU is that everyone will just copy paste their law.

[lindatess]

Well, it's happening, my prediction came true.

Looks like the payment exchanges and financial institutions will not be allowed to assist with bitcoin related transactions.

[bit-fxtrader]

Not really on topic, but couldn't find a BTC China exchange topic.

Can us foreigners signup with BTC China? Does the exchange offer a referral based system like other exchanges? Any major differences between BTC China and other major exchanges?

[BTCisthefuture]

Not really on topic, but couldn't find a BTC China exchange topic.

Can us foreigners signup with BTC China? Does the exchange offer a referral based system like other exchanges? Any major differences between BTC China and other major exchanges?

Yes foreigners can use BTC China but unless you are a foreigner living in China I don't know how you would be able to get rmb to buy their bitcoin vouchers and or rmb to make a cash deposit with them.  So yes foreigners can have accounts, but as far as I know you'd need to be in China for it to be realistically viable.  Currently the two deposit options are buying a btc through an approved seller,  which you would need an account on those sites to do so,  have rmb to give those sellers, as well as be able to read/speak chinese to know how to buy the voucher, youd also need a chinese bank account to easily send one of the authorized reseller their money.   The second deposit option on btcchina is a cash depoist, for that you most certainly need to be in China to acomplish that.

Currently no major differences imo than other exchanges, they use to offer 0 fees on trasnactions but they stopped doing that.  That was really what set them apart and launched them into being the #1 exchange in the world briefly imo.

[bit-fxtrader]

Not really on topic, but couldn't find a BTC China exchange topic.

Can us foreigners signup with BTC China? Does the exchange offer a referral based system like other exchanges? Any major differences between BTC China and other major exchanges?

Yes foreigners can use BTC China but unless you are a foreigner living in China I don't know how you would be able to get rmb to buy their bitcoin vouchers and or rmb to make a cash deposit with them.  So yes foreigners can have accounts, but as far as I know you'd need to be in China for it to be realistically viable.  Currently the two deposit options are buying a btc through an approved seller,  which you would need an account on those sites to do so,  have rmb to give those sellers, as well as be able to read/speak chinese to know how to buy the voucher, youd also need a chinese bank account to easily send one of the authorized reseller their money.   The second deposit option on btcchina is a cash depoist, for that you most certainly need to be in China to acomplish that.

Currently no major differences imo than other exchanges, they use to offer 0 fees on trasnactions but they stopped doing that.  That was really what set them apart and launched them into being the #1 exchange in the world briefly imo.

so no btc deposits?

[TKeenan]

My father is a former West Coast division head attorney for Exxon. I appear to have inherited some of his high IQ ability to interpret the law.

This is just about the best resume I've seen here on bitcointalk. 

The part I am having trouble with is: to whom did this appearance come?  You say "I appear...".  Does this mean one day you started analyzing law - and to you it appeared you had a high IQ?  It seems to follow that you would agree with your own analysis.  How did this appearance come to you? 

To me, you appear to have flimsy basis for promoting your legal theory.  I am sure your big-shot father would agree.