UPDATE 2-China bars banks from bitcoin transactions

[gsingh]

This seems like a very positive news to me. Expect prices to go even higher now!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/05/china-bitcoin-idUSL4N0JK1KZ20131205

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[goose20]

Yes, very positive.
Bitcoin to hit $5,000 per on Christmas day.
I can't wait.

[gsingh]

I'll be more than happy even if it hits 2k by xmas 

[Dr Bloggood]

Why positive?

I can see that this makes everybody a bit more grounded and goes against bubbles, but if the merchants can't use it anymore (maybe after future regulations), that's not good.

The bigger BTC gets, the more the Chinese government will have an eye on it.

[gsingh]

Not sure if I understood it correctly. I guess you can accept Bitcoin if you are not a bank (financial institute). Isn't it?

Also bigger it becomes, harder it'll be to regulate. Governments recognising Bitcoin is positive enough for now because it spreads awareness and makes it more legit.   

[Dr Bloggood]

Ok, you got a point there.

I'm not sure either how it is with merchants, nobody seems to be. But I think there is at least an insinuation at regulating it stricter in the future. Let's hope they will be too late to stop it by then.

[laowai80]

Merchants are not financial institutions. This statement bans only financial institutions from bitcoin transactions. Merchants can accept payment in whatever they want, as long as they pay taxes in legal tender currency of the country they operate in.

[VeeMiner]

to say the truth the statement is hard to understand for a regular user, it does not seem like a good thing though...

[polarhei]

Why positive?

I can see that this makes everybody a bit more grounded and goes against bubbles, but if the merchants can't use it anymore (maybe after future regulations), that's not good.

The bigger BTC gets, the more the Chinese government will have an eye on it.

Well, I have received a phone call from a media. Asking how the barring caused.

1. The barring must be set to ensure can be adapted with.
2. THE People's Bank OF CHINA Currently seeks a more suitable way as the insiders like diversified methods.
3. Buying and selling is just a will, just like shares.

[crazy_rabbit]

seems to really point to bitcoin being treated as a commodity for the moment. (Still a great thing)

[balanghai]

This would be good because no moguls can take advantage of the early growth of BTC, hence less clout they can have.

[crazy_rabbit]

This would be good because no moguls can take advantage of the early growth of BTC, hence less clout they can have.

Good point. Although I didn't mind moguls pumping the price. :-) (Until they dump it of course).

[gsingh]

This is correct title actually! (China Restricts Banks’ Use of Bitcoin)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/business/international/china-bars-banks-from-using-bitcoin.html?hpw&rref=business

[BitnessMan]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

[VeeMiner]

seems to really point to bitcoin being treated as a commodity for the moment. (Still a great thing)

I guess you're right. So it's kinda good news, since they didn't ban it altogether....

[VeeMiner]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

yeah, go on a firesale, I'll be glad to get more cheap bitcoins. Then you can cry in the corner when bitcoin is worth 10 000 USD

[erre]

Chinese hoarded USD when it was illegal...

i just went all-in @ 1000 and didn't knew that.... but i hope this is the chance for btc to do wat it was designed for: fuck off money dictatorships

[crazy_rabbit]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

Noobs always have doom and gloom posts before they hit 10 posts.

[BitnessMan]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

yeah, go on a firesale, I'll be glad to get more cheap bitcoins. Then you can cry in the corner when bitcoin is worth 10 000 USD

If you honestly believe BTC is going to be worth 10000 USD, you should invest your entire savings into it.

[VeeMiner]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

yeah, go on a firesale, I'll be glad to get more cheap bitcoins. Then you can cry in the corner when bitcoin is worth 10 000 USD

If you honestly believe BTC is going to be worth 10000 USD, you should invest your entire savings into it.

I believe it a lot more than you having 2000 BTC

[BitnessMan]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

yeah, go on a firesale, I'll be glad to get more cheap bitcoins. Then you can cry in the corner when bitcoin is worth 10 000 USD

If you honestly believe BTC is going to be worth 10000 USD, you should invest your entire savings into it.

I believe it a lot more than you having 2000 BTC

Okay, a wager. By Jan 1 2015. I'll bet you a nice paltry sum, let's say 60000 USD that BTC will be sub 10000 in value. Hell, I'll do you one better. It'll be sub 7500.  If it's above 7500, you not only win 7500USD per bitcoin, you win 60000 dollars.  If it's below, you pay up, except I highly doubt you'd have the money because you invested in a commodity whose inflated price was only occurring because of Chinese speculation which just got its head cut off today.

[Inedible]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

Alright, I'll save your bacon.

I'll buy them all now for $110 each.

Don't say I'm not good to you.

[TheJacob]

What does this mean exactly?

Are banks banned from transacting in bitcoins or from dealing with bitcoin related transactions entirely?

[bryant.coleman]

What does this mean exactly?

Are banks banned from transacting in bitcoins or from dealing with bitcoin related transactions entirely?

As far as I can understand, it's the first case. They are only banned from dealing with BTCs directly.

But as someone points out, the language used is very vague (probably knowingly). So it will be open to all sorts of interpretations.

[davidgdg]

... If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China ...

What do you mean? This makes no sense. You couldn't move bitcoins "to a bank" anywhere in the world. It's not how bitcoins work.

[yeik]

What I think they mean is that banks can't make bitcoin accounts and credit cards (managing themselves the wallets), or offer you the bitcoin trading services as for example Mt.Gox. And that they can't also sell loans in bitcoins, or invest in bitcoins for you as they were shares

[PenAndPaper]

Not sure if I understood it correctly. I guess you can accept Bitcoin if you are not a bank (financial institute). Isn't it?

Also bigger it becomes, harder it'll be to regulate. Governments recognising Bitcoin is positive enough for now because it spreads awareness and makes it more legit.   

I think it's more of a guidance and a warning that noone should treat bitcoin as money. People can trade in bitcoins but they should consider it a commodity.
I don't know if there are going to be penalties for people pricing products on bitcoin.

[hedge29]

My interpretation is that merchants are not allowed to accept BTC.    

From the reddit translation (link below)

"Bitcoin is not issued by a monetary authority, it does not have the status of legal tender and obliged acceptance status of currency, it is not currency in the true sense. Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with currency, and it cannot and should not be circulated as currency on the market. But, the general public have the freedom to participate in Bitcoin trading as a commodity trading on the internet on the condition they carry their own risk."

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

[hacknoid]

My interpretation is that merchants are not allowed to accept BTC.    

From the reddit translation (link below)

"Bitcoin is not issued by a monetary authority, it does not have the status of legal tender and obliged acceptance status of currency, it is not currency in the true sense. Bitcoin is a specified virtual commodity, it does not have equal legal status with currency, and it cannot and should not be circulated as currency on the market. But, the general public have the freedom to participate in Bitcoin trading as a commodity trading on the internet on the condition they carry their own risk."

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1s5hzl/my_human_translation_of_the_china_regulation/

Are merchants in China allowed to engage in barter transactions, or is that illegal?  Because if bitcoin is not a currency, it can still be used for barter - anything can.

EDIT: The part about "on the internet" is irrelevant; since bitcoins only exist on the internet.

[proudhon]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

It's your lucky day.  I'll pay you twice what you're expecting.  For all of them.  PM me.

[wmcleod]

Little confused.

Why is this positive news?

[kwukduck]

Doesn't this mean that exchanges will be illegal in China? I would think they are financial institutions..?

[antimattercrusader]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

Well, first off, we will see if any of what you just said turns out to be true. I don't see why it's not possible to send BTC to banks in China? Individuals can still use it. That said, I don't know what kind of operation you're running - but how does this equal the end of the BTC Experiment? One nation decides they don't like it so it's all over? We all know not every location and government on Earth is going to be a 100% bitcoin turbo bull. Didn't we all expect government and banking resistance? Come on - even if China says they're going to execute everyone with any BTC interests, that would be bad, but it would not be the end. China is not the entire planet. China has always been one of the more controlled regions, although I had(have) high hopes they're loosening up.

Even in a worst case total ban scenario, this is not the end of bitcoin.
 

[Libin]

What I think they mean is that banks can't make bitcoin accounts and credit cards (managing themselves the wallets), or offer you the bitcoin trading services as for example Mt.Gox. And that they can't also sell loans in bitcoins, or invest in bitcoins for you as they were shares

you're right, that's exactly what's the china gov mean.

[bryant.coleman]

Doesn't this mean that exchanges will be illegal in China? I would think they are financial institutions..?

No. The statement says that Crypto-Exchanges should get registration from the government. If they want to ban the exchanges, then what is the point in registering them?

[darkmule]

Yet another 10 post wonder who shows up and immediately knows everything just after getting out of the newbie cage.

Probably some troll we've seen before butthurt that he's on so many ignore lists nobody sees his posts.

[crazy_rabbit]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

yeah, go on a firesale, I'll be glad to get more cheap bitcoins. Then you can cry in the corner when bitcoin is worth 10 000 USD

If you honestly believe BTC is going to be worth 10000 USD, you should invest your entire savings into it.

I believe it a lot more than you having 2000 BTC

Okay, a wager. By Jan 1 2015. I'll bet you a nice paltry sum, let's say 60000 USD that BTC will be sub 10000 in value. Hell, I'll do you one better. It'll be sub 7500.  If it's above 7500, you not only win 7500USD per bitcoin, you win 60000 dollars.  If it's below, you pay up, except I highly doubt you'd have the money because you invested in a commodity whose inflated price was only occurring because of Chinese speculation which just got its head cut off today.

Well I'm glad you believe it's over. Feel free to leave the community any time now...

[BitnessMan]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

yeah, go on a firesale, I'll be glad to get more cheap bitcoins. Then you can cry in the corner when bitcoin is worth 10 000 USD

If you honestly believe BTC is going to be worth 10000 USD, you should invest your entire savings into it.

I believe it a lot more than you having 2000 BTC

Okay, a wager. By Jan 1 2015. I'll bet you a nice paltry sum, let's say 60000 USD that BTC will be sub 10000 in value. Hell, I'll do you one better. It'll be sub 7500.  If it's above 7500, you not only win 7500USD per bitcoin, you win 60000 dollars.  If it's below, you pay up, except I highly doubt you'd have the money because you invested in a commodity whose inflated price was only occurring because of Chinese speculation which just got its head cut off today.

Well I'm glad you believe it's over. Feel free to leave the community any time now...

Hahaha you fucking pussy. You've got a whole hell of a lot of words on the internet behind your bullshit convictions, but when I say let's put a little money behind it, you just tell me to leave.  In the business world, we call that a beta move. That's why I fucking destroy 30 people like you every day before lunch. I move in, take the money I want, run you out of business, then call your girlfriend and tell her her little boy is destitute, but if she needs a man, she can come spend the weekend cleaning my yacht and pleasing me sexually if she isn't too fucking disgusting (which I imagine your girl is).

And by the way you fucking idiots, Baidu stopped accepting Bitcoins today (holy shit maybe I was right because I don't have fucking rose coloured glasses on?). But I'm sure that's great news!  For Bitcoin!  Right?  Hahahahahaha I love cleaning up on kids like you who say they're in 'business' but probably have daddy paying the insurance on the BMW (and actually own a BMW they drive themselves like a little bitch instead of having a chaffeur take them around in a Rolls).

[beetcoin]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

if you're selling at $100 i will take an order for as many as i can get. thank you.

[BitnessMan]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

if you're selling at $100 i will take an order for as many as i can get. thank you.

I don't sell shit to people who can't punctuate. Get an education before you mess with the fucking business world, you sack of shit.

[Peter R]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

if you're selling at $100 i will take an order for as many as i can get. thank you.

I don't sell shit to people who can't punctuate. Get an education before you mess with the fucking business world, you sack of shit.

So that's your business BitnessMan?: selling shit, but only to people who can punctuate properly.  Is that how you earned your 2000 BTC?  I was wondering where that smell was coming from...

[BitnessMan]

^^^^The only thing people with shitty educations are good for is cleaning my toilet or winning the lottery so I can take advantage of them and clean them the fuck out.


And by the way to all you beta business people who are salivating on buying 2000 tulips for 100 bucks a piece, here's the update:

I'm using the 2000BTC as leverage in a bet. In 6 months, I've got this guy who's going to pay me 1000000$ for them, no matter what.  It's contracted, it's signed. If I'm right, this will force him into bankruptcy and I've already been taking the time to get to know his huge-titted wife so I can use her up and leave her on the side of the road (she's the kinda gal that won't stick with him when he's a bankrupt piece of shit driving a fucking Mercedes, especially when I tell her what he spent money he doesn't have on).

So stop messaging me you sad sacks, and go back to crying about your shitty commodity that just lost 400 dollars of value in one day!  Hahahahahaha. Hey, any of you fuckers got a hot girlfriend? Wanna give me her number? If she's ugly, well I can always use a girl to clean up the mess after a session with 6 or 7 hot ones!

[beetcoin]

this guy sounds like either a troll or a wall street sociopath  

your dick is really big, you must feel really good about yourself.

[BitnessMan]

this guy sounds like either a troll or a wall street sociopath  

your dick is really big, you must feel really good about yourself.

Hell no, who wants more than 8 inches?  Guys that boast about anything 8+ are either morons who don't realise how bad they are or they're lying. I got a reduction surgery actually because only high school beta males think having a 12 inch dick is good for anything but some freaky porn work.

[J.Socal]

so that's why it slumped so much n a day.

[dmartig]

please do not feed the trolls

[PenAndPaper]

It turned out that the news wasn't so good after all  
Lets all hope for that crash to end soon  

[darkmule]

No.  I want it to continue.  I hope it hits 400.

[PenAndPaper]

No.  I want it to continue.  I hope it hits 400.

Why you hope for 400 and not for 100 or even 1$. I mean it looks like you sold anyway 

[niothor]

No.  I want it to continue.  I hope it hits 400.

And immediately after that you will hope it hits 600 .

[laowai80]

It turned out that the news wasn't so good after all  
Lets all hope for that crash to end soon  

Why? The news was neutral, or non-event. I mean nobody really seriously expected Chinese government to recognize bitcoin as a currency, didn't they? No government in their right mind would do that. They did what they had to do: recognize it as a legal digital commodity, exactly what it is.

Now, people tend to overreact, that's what happened, also impacted by irrational exuberrance that led to a frenzy of the bitcoin price growing too high in too short time. It'll recover to sustainable rate of growth, and that's a good thing. Frenzies aren't good.

[darkmule]

No.  I want it to continue.  I hope it hits 400.

And immediately after that you will hope it hits 600 .

I chickened out and bought back in at 650.  I still think it's going to go down further, but now, just as you said, I hope it doesn't.

[DeboraMeeks]

in my opinion,it's not good news for bitcoins at all. Now no merchant is allowed to use or accept it as a method of payment (money) and all merchants who added it are removing it,Documents for verification slow the process of buying but might not effect bitcoin personal use in china.

[PenAndPaper]

It turned out that the news wasn't so good after all  
Lets all hope for that crash to end soon  

Why? The news was neutral, or non-event.

Ok if neutral news crashed the price 50% down then i don't want to think what we 'll happen when the bad news hit us 

[laowai80]

Ok if neutral news crashed the price 50% down then i don't want to think what we 'll happen when the bad news hit us  

Look, 100-200-300% monthly price growth is just not sustainable. We did NOT crash, we simply corrected to a bit more sane level of growth. Although it's still pretty crazy, if you check what it did since October, but because this market is in its infancy, it's ok.

Here is a chart that shows we approached a 50-day moving average for a short while:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=mtgoxUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=30&i=&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=SMA&m1=14&a2=SMA&m2=50&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

this has shaken out a lot of weak hands who never believed in crypto currencies and their concept in the first place and were trading just to get a quick profit and without understanding fundamentals. As long as fundamentals are solid (and so far they are), the growth will continue. But do not be surprised when pullbacks happen, this is natural.

As for bad news for crypto world, I wouldn't give that a lot of chances to happen right now, there is certainly more likelyhood for good news in the coming months.

[PenAndPaper]

Ok if neutral news crashed the price 50% down then i don't want to think what we 'll happen when the bad news hit us  

We did NOT crash

And this is where i stopped reading. I guess i didn't miss anything important right? 

[laowai80]

And this is where i stopped reading. I guess i didn't miss anything important right? 

Probably nothing which would be useful to you, so please don't bother

[davedx]

Ok if neutral news crashed the price 50% down then i don't want to think what we 'll happen when the bad news hit us  

Look, 100-200-300% monthly price growth is just not sustainable. We did NOT crash, we simply corrected to a bit more sane level of growth. Although it's still pretty crazy, if you check what it did since October, but because this market is in its infancy, it's ok.

Here is a chart that shows we approached a 50-day moving average for a short while:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/chart.png?width=940&m=mtgoxUSD&SubmitButton=Draw&r=30&i=&c=0&s=&e=&Prev=&Next=&t=S&b=&a1=SMA&m1=14&a2=SMA&m2=50&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&

this has shaken out a lot of weak hands who never believed in crypto currencies and their concept in the first place and were trading just to get a quick profit and without understanding fundamentals. As long as fundamentals are solid (and so far they are), the growth will continue. But do not be surprised when pullbacks happen, this is natural.

As for bad news for crypto world, I wouldn't give that a lot of chances to happen right now, there is certainly more likelyhood for good news in the coming months.

Finally somebody talks sense in this thread. So many hysterical trolls around. Thanks for the insightful post, I agree it's a correction.

[evershawn]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

I'll take all your BTC at 150 per! There, you happy now?

[PenAndPaper]

Stop being such crybabies and refusing to admit that a crash it's just that. A crash.

Also read how people that their opinion actually matters treat facts
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/8778/bitcoin-chinas-new-special-economic-zone/

[nmtrader100]

If I am not mistaken, there wasn't a single bank in China conducting bitcoin transactions prior to this forward guidance, which coincidentally- is the same amount of banks conducting bitcoin transactions since the announcement.

[merv77]

You people are morons, this is what we in the financial industry call a "massive disaster." If I can't move my bitcoins to banks in China, I lose reputability, and the cascade of negative effects will put me out of business. This is the end of the bitcoin experiment as far as I'm concerned.  Time to start a firesale of my 2000 BTC, I'll be lucky if I get 100$ per.

BTC seems to be on the way up again. 
anyway this volatile behavior is normal and healthy for innovation so young.
See video below. Some probably have seen it, but for the ones that haven't it's good great info. 

Bitcoin 101 Blackboard - Why Bitcoin's Growth is Normal & The S-Curves You Could Never See http://youtu.be/qHUPPYzzZrI

Cheers,
merv77