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Author Topic: Bitcoin will be destroyed by early adopters  (Read 7333 times)
zimmah
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December 07, 2013, 05:34:53 PM
 #61

Yes, those who get scared they will lose their millions and dump 10000+ or more at the market, starting an avalanche. I'm convinced that pump and dump has been going on for a long time, the question is, when will they overdo it to kill it all.

This has been debated since 2011 but yet it never happened.

Early adopters with tens of k's of BTC are strong hands. They already witnessed a crash that made BTC lose 96% of its value (2011 - $32 to $2) and they didn't blink. Those who wanted to cash out hundred of thousands of BTC (Like Sirius or Druid) already did it.

They are mostly nerds, geeks and visionaries - not the average joe who invested in BTC his life savings.

Plus, everybody with such holdings knows they cannot just have $100MM on Gox or Bitstamp and have them wired to their personal account. That just cannot happen and they know it.

And FYI: they are already "cashing out". Slowly and gradually. And even if they go crazy and want to cash out in a single big dump, they won't be able to. Maybe you don't know it, but somebody already dumped half a million coins on Gox in 2011, taking the price to $0.01. Do you know what happened? Gox halted trading and then rolled back that order.



why are you using MM instead of just M?

Just because it is the standard abbreviation i see in most of the financial media as per Financial Times or The Economist.

Why? Well, I didn't know until you asked, but google Is my friend: http://www.ask.com/question/does-mm-stand-for-million-or-thousand

MM is a wrong and confusing abbreviation.

use k (kilo) for 1000 and M (Mega) for million.

i have never seen MM before.

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.



the stupidity, it hurts.....

you don't have to buy whole bitcoins. if you have $500 to invest, buy ~0.7 bitcoins, if you have $5 to invest, buy ~0.007 bitcoins. if you have $0.05 to invest, buy a few satoshi.

Litecoin is not better than bitcoin in any way, and in my opinion litecoin is only used by daytraders and people who are too stupid to realize litecoin does not have any advantages over bitcoin and is just a cheap ripoff.

Bitcoin too valuable to spent? of course not, you can spent 0.005BTC bitcoin to buy a coffee, who cares? In a few year you may pay 0.000005BTC for a coffee, no big deal.

If you can afford to buy it in dollars, you can afford to buy it in bitcoins.

If you can't afford it in bitcoins, you can't afford it in dollar either. It doesn't matter if a bitcoin is worth $10,000,000 or $0.10


From Mt.GOX

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 USD, GBP, EUR, CAD, CHF, SEK, DKK, NOK, AUD , NZD, HKD, SGD.  Any fee charged by your bank or an intermediate bank will be deducted.  Our bank charges a 1,500 Yen receiving fee.  

yeah so? the fee is the same no matter what. it doesn't make bitcoin more expensive.
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pjviitas
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December 07, 2013, 05:57:40 PM
 #62

Yes, those who get scared they will lose their millions and dump 10000+ or more at the market, starting an avalanche. I'm convinced that pump and dump has been going on for a long time, the question is, when will they overdo it to kill it all.

This has been debated since 2011 but yet it never happened.

Early adopters with tens of k's of BTC are strong hands. They already witnessed a crash that made BTC lose 96% of its value (2011 - $32 to $2) and they didn't blink. Those who wanted to cash out hundred of thousands of BTC (Like Sirius or Druid) already did it.

They are mostly nerds, geeks and visionaries - not the average joe who invested in BTC his life savings.

Plus, everybody with such holdings knows they cannot just have $100MM on Gox or Bitstamp and have them wired to their personal account. That just cannot happen and they know it.

And FYI: they are already "cashing out". Slowly and gradually. And even if they go crazy and want to cash out in a single big dump, they won't be able to. Maybe you don't know it, but somebody already dumped half a million coins on Gox in 2011, taking the price to $0.01. Do you know what happened? Gox halted trading and then rolled back that order.



why are you using MM instead of just M?

Just because it is the standard abbreviation i see in most of the financial media as per Financial Times or The Economist.

Why? Well, I didn't know until you asked, but google Is my friend: http://www.ask.com/question/does-mm-stand-for-million-or-thousand

MM is a wrong and confusing abbreviation.

use k (kilo) for 1000 and M (Mega) for million.

i have never seen MM before.

You are assuming that the early adopters have any say in whether Bitcoin lives or dies.

Bitcoin simply cannot be controlled.  Anyone who tries will fail...period.

even the guy holding 10% of all the coins? you cant be serious. there are 5 people holding at least 20-30% of all coins. they could do it any time.

You can't destroy bitcoin with the price , end , point , end.
Even if they control 10% each time they pull a stunt like that they lose a few of their coins , things can't go like that forever.

Bitcoin is already at the point where I don't want to use it as a currency and am thinking of moving to litecoin.

In order for Bitcoin to be usable I need to be able to buy a bunch without breaking the bank and not be afraid to spend them.

If the price of Bitcoin is too high it does 2 things:
1. Forces me to buy small amounts of BTC for a price that I simply can't afford.  Buying "what I can afford" kills me in exchange fees.
2. Makes me feel like its too valuable to spend.

Contrary to what some people think, some people want to use BTC as it was intended...to buy and sell shit.

With that being said, everyone who engages in BTC needs to put their speculation hat on once in awile because of it's volatility.



the stupidity, it hurts.....

you don't have to buy whole bitcoins. if you have $500 to invest, buy ~0.7 bitcoins, if you have $5 to invest, buy ~0.007 bitcoins. if you have $0.05 to invest, buy a few satoshi.

Litecoin is not better than bitcoin in any way, and in my opinion litecoin is only used by daytraders and people who are too stupid to realize litecoin does not have any advantages over bitcoin and is just a cheap ripoff.

Bitcoin too valuable to spent? of course not, you can spent 0.005BTC bitcoin to buy a coffee, who cares? In a few year you may pay 0.000005BTC for a coffee, no big deal.

If you can afford to buy it in dollars, you can afford to buy it in bitcoins.

If you can't afford it in bitcoins, you can't afford it in dollar either. It doesn't matter if a bitcoin is worth $10,000,000 or $0.10


From Mt.GOX

You can do bank transfers to our bank in Japan in the following currencies:
 USD, GBP, EUR, CAD, CHF, SEK, DKK, NOK, AUD , NZD, HKD, SGD.  Any fee charged by your bank or an intermediate bank will be deducted.  Our bank charges a 1,500 Yen receiving fee.  

yeah so? the fee is the same no matter what. it doesn't make bitcoin more expensive.

Your right...it doesn't make Bitcoin itself more expensive however it makes it more expensive to exchange fiat for BTC that's all.

For normal people with limited resources, dumping $1200 into 1BTC when all you need is .10BTC can be difficult.
Rampion
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December 07, 2013, 06:11:55 PM
 #63

Zimmah: if you have never seen MM probably you don't read financial newspapers. It is a standard abbreviation for millions used in specialized media - M is the latin for thousand, MM = thousand of thousands.

If you think it is confusing you could start writing a letter to the economist, yahoo finance or zerohedge, as they (and many more) use MM quite a lot. Examples:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fitch-confirms-t-f1-rtg-171300750.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/mf-global-admits-liability-will-pay-12bn-restitution-100mm-penalty

You could ask them to use only M from now on.

Dictionary of acronyms and abbreviations: http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MM

Anyhow, this is irrelevant. M or MM are both correct, and no one is confusing because the context makes pretty clear that we are speaking of millions.

igorr
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December 07, 2013, 07:38:13 PM
 #64

How to convert bitcoin to dollars in U.S when It is the forbidden ?
Why people from U.S buying bitcoin when it can not convert to USD ?

This is a conspiracy U.S  (the largest buyers of U.S) 
U.S want to steal money from Chinese people !!!

Bitcoin transaction maps in real time: http://fiatleak.com/

Bitcoin is a super secret project of the U.S. and that have understood in time, China, France, Russia.
This project serves to rob people from other countries.

Russia has never had any bitcoin exchange because he knew about that. BTC-e not Russian exchange its Europe,


Now more and more countries this will understand.

Cлaвьcя, Oтeчecтвo нaшe cвoбoднoe,
Бpaтcкиx нapoдoв coюз вeкoвoй,
Пpeдкaми дaннaя мyдpocть нapoднaя!
Cлaвьcя, cтpaнa! Mы гopдимcя тoбoй!
hostfabrica
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December 08, 2013, 06:42:30 PM
 #65

http://i.imgur.com/7iV9ihA.jpg

How to convert bitcoin to dollars in U.S when It is the forbidden ?
Why people from U.S buying bitcoin when it can not convert to USD ?

This is a conspiracy U.S  (the largest buyers of U.S) 
U.S want to steal money from Chinese people !!!

Bitcoin transaction maps in real time: http://fiatleak.com/

Bitcoin is a super secret project of the U.S. and that have understood in time, China, France, Russia.
This project serves to rob people from other countries.

Russia has never had any bitcoin exchange because he knew about that. BTC-e not Russian exchange its Europe,


Now more and more countries this will understand.
igorr
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December 08, 2013, 07:17:09 PM
Last edit: December 08, 2013, 07:27:13 PM by igorr
 #66

U.S give most BTC to China and takes most real money of the Chinese people. Give nothing for real money !!!
It is tactical general impoverishment of China.

http://fiatleak.com/

Cлaвьcя, Oтeчecтвo нaшe cвoбoднoe,
Бpaтcкиx нapoдoв coюз вeкoвoй,
Пpeдкaми дaннaя мyдpocть нapoднaя!
Cлaвьcя, cтpaнa! Mы гopдимcя тoбoй!
psyclon
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December 15, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
 #67

U.S give most BTC to China and takes most real money of the Chinese people. Give nothing for real money !!!
It is tactical general impoverishment of China.

http://fiatleak.com/

CNY is the best and safest investment out there today. if you have a lot of money you can go to HK and open a CNY account there. of course you can also go to china.
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February 14, 2014, 07:47:28 AM
 #68

hmm.... is it too early to say 'I told you so'?
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February 14, 2014, 08:57:54 AM
 #69

Most of the comments in this thread are missing one key issue... mining difficulty.
 
Sure, BTC has gone up and down in the past and was near $100 USD/BTC for most of 2013, but for most of 2013 you could mine profitably at $100/BTC.  If BTC drops down to $100 USD/BTC, it will kill Bitcoin because no one will mine and there is no sufficient adoption sans mining.  Even if difficulty drops, difficulty will still be an order of magnitude above what it was in 2013 because of the improvement in ASIC's. 
Revolution
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February 14, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
 #70

Most of the comments in this thread are missing one key issue... mining difficulty.
 
Sure, BTC has gone up and down in the past and was near $100 USD/BTC for most of 2013, but for most of 2013 you could mine profitably at $100/BTC.  If BTC drops down to $100 USD/BTC, it will kill Bitcoin because no one will mine and there is no sufficient adoption sans mining.  Even if difficulty drops, difficulty will still be an order of magnitude above what it was in 2013 because of the improvement in ASIC's. 

I disagree, most the hashing power comes from SHA256 ASICs, what will people use their ASICs for? Nothing..
Why not leave it on to mine, even if you barely make any profits.

Get what I mean?

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February 14, 2014, 12:59:59 PM
 #71

Most of the comments in this thread are missing one key issue... mining difficulty.
 
Sure, BTC has gone up and down in the past and was near $100 USD/BTC for most of 2013, but for most of 2013 you could mine profitably at $100/BTC.  If BTC drops down to $100 USD/BTC, it will kill Bitcoin because no one will mine and there is no sufficient adoption sans mining.  Even if difficulty drops, difficulty will still be an order of magnitude above what it was in 2013 because of the improvement in ASIC's. 

you have no understanding of economics whatsoever.

Guess what happens if a bunch of miners become unprofitable? The difficulty declines. And then? Well some become profitable again. Ect ect.

Revolution
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February 14, 2014, 01:06:23 PM
 #72

Most of the comments in this thread are missing one key issue... mining difficulty.
 
Sure, BTC has gone up and down in the past and was near $100 USD/BTC for most of 2013, but for most of 2013 you could mine profitably at $100/BTC.  If BTC drops down to $100 USD/BTC, it will kill Bitcoin because no one will mine and there is no sufficient adoption sans mining.  Even if difficulty drops, difficulty will still be an order of magnitude above what it was in 2013 because of the improvement in ASIC's. 

you have no understanding of economics whatsoever.

Guess what happens if a bunch of miners become unprofitable? The difficulty declines. And then? Well some become profitable again. Ect ect.

Yea and also, even if the price declines and the difficulty stays same, why wouldn't people mine it, I mean what else can you do with ASICs?

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February 15, 2014, 07:06:44 AM
 #73

Most of the comments in this thread are missing one key issue... mining difficulty.
 
Sure, BTC has gone up and down in the past and was near $100 USD/BTC for most of 2013, but for most of 2013 you could mine profitably at $100/BTC.  If BTC drops down to $100 USD/BTC, it will kill Bitcoin because no one will mine and there is no sufficient adoption sans mining.  Even if difficulty drops, difficulty will still be an order of magnitude above what it was in 2013 because of the improvement in ASIC's. 

you have no understanding of economics whatsoever.

Guess what happens if a bunch of miners become unprofitable? The difficulty declines. And then? Well some become profitable again. Ect ect.

Yea and also, even if the price declines and the difficulty stays same, why wouldn't people mine it, I mean what else can you do with ASICs?
Turning off the money-burning machines seems like an attractive option.
pjviitas
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February 15, 2014, 07:17:12 AM
 #74

Most of the comments in this thread are missing one key issue... mining difficulty.
 
Sure, BTC has gone up and down in the past and was near $100 USD/BTC for most of 2013, but for most of 2013 you could mine profitably at $100/BTC.  If BTC drops down to $100 USD/BTC, it will kill Bitcoin because no one will mine and there is no sufficient adoption sans mining.  Even if difficulty drops, difficulty will still be an order of magnitude above what it was in 2013 because of the improvement in ASIC's. 

you have no understanding of economics whatsoever.

Guess what happens if a bunch of miners become unprofitable? The difficulty declines. And then? Well some become profitable again. Ect ect.

Yea and also, even if the price declines and the difficulty stays same, why wouldn't people mine it, I mean what else can you do with ASICs?

Mine a different SHA256 coin like Peercoin that's what.

Kills me how everything thinks Bitcoin is the only coin out there.
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